gearing for folding bicycle

In message <[email hidden]>, Lee
<lee_AT_SHOES_wheelman_DOT_com@?.?.invalid> writes

Quoted message said:

I'm building up a folding bicycle, probably a Swift Folder, and I'm trying
to decide on gearing. Most of the use for this bike will be light touring
(10-20 miles) while I'm traveling. I don't expect much in the way of
terrain, mostly flat areas.

So I'm trying to decide between setting it up as a single speed or fixed
gear, or with standard gearing. If I do the latter, I'm thinking that
non-indexing is the way to go. Easier to set up, less fuss when I get to my
destination.

The last option is an internally geared hub, but they are pricey...

Internal hub gears suits small wheels well because they gear up from the
ratio delivered by the chainwheel and sprocket as well as (in most
designs) down. Large chainwheels are in general fairly pricey. Internal
gearing also avoids having a jockey wheel close to the ground with the
extra muck accumulation and damage risk this brings with small wheels.

Things do tend to tangle up on folding bikes so it worth while avoiding
anything that can snag and bend.

There are thousands of good Sturmey Archer AW 3 speeds around - hundreds
go to the metal crushers each week.

You need to get one with enough axle length for your frame and decide on
number of spokes to suit the rims you fancy.

I don't know what the recycling situation is with you but here I filled
a bucket with hubs after a few weekly visits to the local dumps. Take a
rag and a rubber glove with you and look for good chrome plating on the
hub shell and free movement of the indicator chain. Often the ones that
are completely coated in oily dirt are better than the clean ones. I
would go for one of the older ones with an oil port if I had a choice.

All you need to know about how to look after them is on the web. Start
with Sheldon Brown's site:

http://sheldonbrown.com/sturmey-archer.html

and if you get moved to take one to bits move onto the full set of
manuals

http://www.users.globalnet.co.uk/%7ehadland/gear.html

and follow the link How to repair...

If you don't like grime or the folk you find at the dump, you can buy
new three speed hubs made by Shimano, SRAM and SunRace Sturmey Archer or
pick up a good used English made AW on ebay for very modest money.
--

Martyn Aldis, e-mail [email hidden]
==============================================================================

"Martyn Aldis" <[email hidden]> wrote in message

Quoted message said:

and if you get moved to take one to bits move onto the full set of manuals

Martyn,

Thanks for your comments. I *did* take apart a 3 speed hub once. Took the
pieces to my LBS in a bag.

Is 3 speed gearing sufficient for my needs? I guess the answer may be yes,
considering that I was thinking about a fixed gear 🙂

Lee

Some have two rear wheels. One with an internally geared hub, one
fixed (why not flip flop: fixed/free). See:
<http://www.phred.org/~alex/bikes/swift.html> for Alex Wetmore's well
thought out Swift folder.
Regards,
Larry

In message <[email hidden]>, Lee
<lee_AT_SHOES_wheelman_DOT_com@?.?.invalid> writes

Quoted message said:

"Martyn Aldis" <[email hidden]> wrote in message

Quoted message said:

and if you get moved to take one to bits move onto the full set of manuals

Martyn,

Thanks for your comments. I *did* take apart a 3 speed hub once. Took the
pieces to my LBS in a bag.

The order of work *does* matter but all the information you need is
available now and it's free. New ball bearings are cheap and Sturmey
cones are available.

Quoted message said:

Is 3 speed gearing sufficient for my needs? I guess the answer may be yes,
considering that I was thinking about a fixed gear 🙂

You got there first.

It depends on your physical condition and mental attitude.

I only restarted cycling a few years ago and once I had got a bit of
fitness on a MTB tried a 3 speed folder but found it too hard on the
hills with the standard sprocket. Changing from 15 to 18 teeth did the
trick. All the 3 speeds were sold geared for fairly flat country and
walking up serious hills was expected - it went with the no sweating
kind of utility cycling that was normal when bikes were transport and
bathing was less frequent than it is today. Changing the overall gearing
is cheap and easy and makes it possible to up the gearing as you get
fitter (or visa versa if you are unwell or have had a winter's
hibernation).

I'm not saying 3 speed hubs are ideal for everything but given the other
constrains of small wheel folders, the kind of cycling you described and
your concern about cost, I stick with my suggestion of an old 3 speed
hub. If you must buy a new hub you might want to go for 5 speeds or more
so you can go faster on the flat and have smaller jumps between gears.

A regular commute with no hills but a need to carry the bike up stairs
could point to a single speed for weight saving and of course fixed
wheel is good for building fitness or packing lots of cycling into a
small slot. (Really hard work up the hills (or get off and walk) and
really fast spinning going down.) Not the ideal for casual rides in
normal clothes while away visiting relations or perhaps with an
unexpected need to carry a heavy load to an airport or train station.
Fixed is fashionable and not always foolish.

The shops will ride the fixed wheel wave with pricey devices to ungear
frames made for 8 or 9 sprocket cassettes, push multi speed up to 10
cog cassettes this year and maybe 16 speed hub gears at $1200 dollars a
piece to promote later...

Reuse has no advertising budget but some of the shops and specialists
have parts for the old hubs should you need them.

Martyn Aldis, e-mail [email hidden]
==============================================================================

Lee said:

Is 3 speed gearing sufficient for my needs? I guess the answer may be yes,
considering that I was thinking about a fixed gear 🙂

A related question:

Long, long ago I came across a guy riding a touring bike with a very
odd looking rear hub. I asked about it. Turns out it was a
Sturmey-Archer 3 speed with a five speed freewheel grafted onto it.
IIRC, he had 45 gears. Not very necessary on a 700C wheel, IMO, but
the 3 x 5 could be useful for a folder.

Anybody know if the adapting hardware is still available? ISTM it
wouldn't take much.

- Frank Krygowski

Quoted message said:

Lee said:

Is 3 speed gearing sufficient for my needs? I guess the answer may be yes,
considering that I was thinking about a fixed gear 🙂

A related question:

Long, long ago I came across a guy riding a touring bike with a very
odd looking rear hub. I asked about it. Turns out it was a
Sturmey-Archer 3 speed with a five speed freewheel grafted onto it.
IIRC, he had 45 gears. Not very necessary on a 700C wheel, IMO, but
the 3 x 5 could be useful for a folder.

Anybody know if the adapting hardware is still available? ISTM it
wouldn't take much.

Threaded drivers for Sturmey-Archer are/were rare, and probably are
unobtainable now. I've heard of people who (in the early days of
mountain biking) dissassembled freewheels and fitted the outer portion
to a Sturmey driver using steel rod and a lot of J-B Weld. It worked-
at least until the internal parts of the S-A hub exploded from the
increased torque.

Thankfully, SRAM makes hubs specifically for this purpose:
http://harriscyclery.net/site/page.cfm?PageID=49&SKU=HU2590
http://harriscyclery.net/site/page.cfm?PageID=49&SKU=HU2591
http://harriscyclery.net/site/page.cfm?PageID=49&SKU=HU2592
http://harriscyclery.net/site/page.cfm?PageID=49&SKU=HU2593

These are quite common on small-wheel bikes like folders and some
recumbents.

Jeff

Lee,

I see the Swift has 20" wheels.

I have a 20" folder with two front rings and 8 on the rear cluster.
I haven't had any problems with gunk getting on the derailleur.

I like the idea of an internally geared hub but cost is a factor for me and
I keep reading about their inherant efficiency losses with internally geared
hubs due to friction. (except in the direct-drive ratio)

I'd seriously go with a 6, 7 or 8 speed rear derailleur if I were you.

In front - depends. I'm running 32/44 rings - I never use the 32 and I can
see myself bumping the 44 up to a 50 sometime later this summer once I get
back in shape.

BTW: I ride mostly flat areas too.

C.

"Lee" <lee_AT_SHOES_wheelman_DOT_com> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

I'm building up a folding bicycle, probably a Swift Folder, and I'm trying
to decide on gearing. Most of the use for this bike will be light touring
(10-20 miles) while I'm traveling. I don't expect much in the way of
terrain, mostly flat areas.

So I'm trying to decide between setting it up as a single speed or fixed
gear, or with standard gearing. If I do the latter, I'm thinking that
non-indexing is the way to go. Easier to set up, less fuss when I get to
my destination.

The last option is an internally geared hub, but they are pricey...

Anyone have thoughts on this?

Thanks,

Lee

Quoted message said:

Lee said:

Is 3 speed gearing sufficient for my needs? I guess the answer may be yes,
considering that I was thinking about a fixed gear 🙂

Quoted message said:

A related question:
Long, long ago I came across a guy riding a touring bike with a very
odd looking rear hub. I asked about it. Turns out it was a
Sturmey-Archer 3 speed with a five speed freewheel grafted onto it.
IIRC, he had 45 gears. Not very necessary on a 700C wheel, IMO, but
the 3 x 5 could be useful for a folder.
Anybody know if the adapting hardware is still available? ISTM it
wouldn't take much.

Raleigh used to sell a Cyclo kit with 2 or 3 cogs together
that snapped right on an SA splined driver. Raleigh dealers
offered new Raleigh 3 speeds with a six or nine speed
option and cheaply too. Under $10 IIRC. The impossibly
small box held your cogs, a new snapring, a couple of chain
links and a Cyclo flat-spring derailleur with a pretty
aluminum downtube lever. Full gear casing and aluminum
(pre-zip ties!) cable strips. That's the low-normal
derailleur Sheldon waxes nostalgic about occasionally.

A Sturmey Archer threaded driver can take any freewheel if
you block the body,either by jamming ratchets or
welding/brazing the inner and outer bodies. Phil Van
Valkenburg built a mid-50s Peugeot like that with a Sturmey
S-5 and a TA triple for just way too many gears.

More simply, removing the spacers on a regular AW leaves
room for two cogs with bevels facing away from each other
(Sizes 15 and smaller are flat, not beveled). Bill Putnam
discovered that Shimano cassette cogs also fit nicely with
all but 3 splines removed.

In the olden days a Sturmey trigger shifting a 2-cog
derailleur predated "index" systems!
--
Andrew Muzi
www.yellowjersey.org
Open every day since 1 April, 1971

A Muzi said:

Raleigh used to sell a Cyclo kit with 2 or 3 cogs together
that snapped right on an SA splined driver. Raleigh dealers
offered new Raleigh 3 speeds with a six or nine speed
option and cheaply too. Under $10 IIRC. The impossibly
small box held your cogs, a new snapring, a couple of chain
links and a Cyclo flat-spring derailleur with a pretty
aluminum downtube lever. Full gear casing and aluminum
(pre-zip ties!) cable strips. That's the low-normal
derailleur Sheldon waxes nostalgic about occasionally.

A Sturmey Archer threaded driver can take any freewheel if
you block the body,either by jamming ratchets or
welding/brazing the inner and outer bodies. Phil Van
Valkenburg built a mid-50s Peugeot like that with a Sturmey
S-5 and a TA triple for just way too many gears.

More simply, removing the spacers on a regular AW leaves
room for two cogs with bevels facing away from each other
(Sizes 15 and smaller are flat, not beveled). Bill Putnam
discovered that Shimano cassette cogs also fit nicely with
all but 3 splines removed.

I knew about the first and third ideas above, but I know nothing about
a Sturmey-Archer threaded driver. (I haven't done a lot with S-A hubs,
especially in recent years.) Is - or was - that something that's easy
to get?

- Frank Krygowski

21 Jul 2005 03:19:18 -0500 A Muzi said:

Phil Van
Valkenburg built a mid-50s Peugeot like that with a Sturmey
S-5 and a TA triple for just way too many gears.

In 1968, when I first got to Madison, before there was a Yellow Jersey
and before Phil got into cycling, there was a bike frequently parked
on University Ave, with:

S-A five speed internal gear hub
5 speed "freewheel" (presumably locked)
Triple chainring

Seemed WAY cool at the time, but Andy is right that it was also WAY
too many gears.

-
-----------------------------------------------
Jim Adney [email hidden]
Madison, WI 53711 USA
-----------------------------------------------

On 21 Jul 2005 07:50:40 -0700 said:

I knew about the first and third ideas above, but I know nothing about
a Sturmey-Archer threaded driver. (I haven't done a lot with S-A hubs,
especially in recent years.) Is - or was - that something that's easy
to get?

Early S-A drivers and cogs were threaded. Late ones have 3 lugs. I
think Bendix introduced splined cogs and drivers.

It's probably no accident that the early threaded drivers used the
same thread as a freewheel.

-
-----------------------------------------------
Jim Adney [email hidden]
Madison, WI 53711 USA
-----------------------------------------------

Quoted message said:

A Muzi said:

Raleigh used to sell a Cyclo kit with 2 or 3 cogs together
that snapped right on an SA splined driver. Raleigh dealers
offered new Raleigh 3 speeds with a six or nine speed
option and cheaply too. Under $10 IIRC. The impossibly
small box held your cogs, a new snapring, a couple of chain
links and a Cyclo flat-spring derailleur with a pretty
aluminum downtube lever. Full gear casing and aluminum
(pre-zip ties!) cable strips. That's the low-normal
derailleur Sheldon waxes nostalgic about occasionally.

A Sturmey Archer threaded driver can take any freewheel if
you block the body,either by jamming ratchets or
welding/brazing the inner and outer bodies. Phil Van
Valkenburg built a mid-50s Peugeot like that with a Sturmey
S-5 and a TA triple for just way too many gears.

More simply, removing the spacers on a regular AW leaves
room for two cogs with bevels facing away from each other
(Sizes 15 and smaller are flat, not beveled). Bill Putnam
discovered that Shimano cassette cogs also fit nicely with
all but 3 splines removed.

Quoted message said:

I knew about the first and third ideas above, but I know nothing about
a Sturmey-Archer threaded driver. (I haven't done a lot with S-A hubs,
especially in recent years.) Is - or was - that something that's easy
to get?

Found on very old hubs
I don't recall the change year but at least fifties maybe
earlier.
--
Andrew Muzi
www.yellowjersey.org
Open every day since 1 April, 1971

Lee said:

I'm building up a folding bicycle, probably a Swift Folder, and I'm trying
to decide on gearing. Most of the use for this bike will be light touring
(10-20 miles) while I'm traveling. I don't expect much in the way of
terrain, mostly flat areas.

So I'm trying to decide between setting it up as a single speed or fixed
gear, or with standard gearing. If I do the latter, I'm thinking that
non-indexing is the way to go. Easier to set up, less fuss when I get to my
destination.

The last option is an internally geared hub, but they are pricey...

Anyone have thoughts on this?

Thanks,

Lee

It depends on how you ride, your condition, and your terrain. I rode
around Boston and New York on a fixed gear bike with 27 inch wheels, and
it was OK. Most of the hills there aren't so bad. I was already fairly
good at hill climbing, and the fixed gear helped to teach me to be
better. I was using a low-ish gear, though, 66 inches (207 inch rollout).

It might be less fun on a small-wheel bike, since the small wheels suck
more energy from you.

I wasn't happy with Sturmey Archer hubs because the gearing was too
wide. Newer internally geared hubs may have fixed that problem. As I
remember, which could be wrong, the middle gear was direct (i.e.
whatever your chainwheel/sprocket provided), low gear was 25% lower than
middle, and high gear was 33% higher than middle. Compare that with
three adjacent gears on your freewheel, and you may see how wide that
really is.

But as you point out, either of these setups will simplify maintenance
quite a bit.

--
Tom Reingold
Noo Joizy

"Tom Reingold" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Lee said:

I'm building up a folding bicycle, probably a Swift Folder, and I'm
trying to decide on gearing. Most of the use for this bike will be light
touring (10-20 miles) while I'm traveling. I don't expect much in the way
of terrain, mostly flat areas.

It depends on how you ride, your condition, and your terrain. I rode
around Boston and New York on a fixed gear bike with 27 inch wheels, and
it was OK. Most of the hills there aren't so bad. I was already fairly
good at hill climbing, and the fixed gear helped to teach me to be better.
I was using a low-ish gear, though, 66 inches (207 inch rollout).

It might be less fun on a small-wheel bike, since the small wheels suck
more energy from you.

I wasn't happy with Sturmey Archer hubs because the gearing was too wide.
Newer internally geared hubs may have fixed that problem. As I remember,
which could be wrong, the middle gear was direct (i.e. whatever your
chainwheel/sprocket provided), low gear was 25% lower than middle, and
high gear was 33% higher than middle. Compare that with three adjacent
gears on your freewheel, and you may see how wide that really is.

But as you point out, either of these setups will simplify maintenance
quite a bit.

Thanks Tom. I just picked up a pair of Spin composite 20" wheels, rear flip
flop. I'll see how the bike works as a single/fixxie. I'm also starting to
look around for a pair of hubs to build a set of 6-8 speed wheels...we'll
see...

Lee

Frank Krygowski reminisced:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Long, long ago I came across a guy riding a touring bike with a very
odd looking rear hub. I asked about it. Turns out it was a
Sturmey-Archer 3 speed with a five speed freewheel grafted onto it.
IIRC, he had 45 gears. Not very necessary on a 700C wheel, IMO, but
the 3 x 5 could be useful for a folder.

I had a similar rig on the Moulton Deluxe (16 inch wheels) I rode from
Boston to Montreal in 1969, I think that was a 4 speed freehwel on a 3
speed hub with a 72/52 double chainring. A friend used to note that
this was the only bike he ever saw with a 52 tooth granny gear...

I believe the freewheel was 15-24.

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Anybody know if the adapting hardware is still available? ISTM it
wouldn't take much.

Andy Muzi said:

Raleigh used to sell a Cyclo kit with 2 or 3 cogs together that snapped
right on an SA splined driver.

Yep, I put one of these on my Elswick Tour Anglais back in '59 or '60.
It was a three sprocket model, on a four speed FW hub. I was the first
kid on my block to have a 12 speed bike when most folks hadn't even hear
of 10 speeds.

Quoted message said:

Raleigh dealers offered new Raleigh 3
speeds with a six or nine speed option and cheaply too. Under $10 IIRC.
The impossibly small box held your cogs, a new snapring, a couple of
chain links and a Cyclo flat-spring derailleur with a pretty aluminum
downtube lever. Full gear casing and aluminum (pre-zip ties!) cable
strips. That's the low-normal derailleur Sheldon waxes nostalgic about
occasionally.

We've got a few of the Cyclo 2 and 3 sprocket units in stock from an old
bike shop's stock we bought out...

Unfortunately, the smallest sprokets for these are 16 tooth, not so
wonderful for small wheel bikes.

Quoted message said:

A Sturmey Archer threaded driver can take any freewheel if you block the
body,either by jamming ratchets or welding/brazing the inner and outer
bodies.

I've still got a couple of bikes set up this way, my 72 speed OTB:

http://sheldonbrown.org/otb.html

and a 54 speed setup on one of my home-made tandems.

http://sheldonbrown.org/bicycle.html#t3

There's no actual need to block the bodies. I did usually remove the
adjuster shims from the freewheels when I used to do this .

Quoted message said:

More simply, removing the spacers on a regular AW leaves room for two
cogs with bevels facing away from each other (Sizes 15 and smaller are
flat, not beveled).

I did that when I was in high school, back in the Pleistocene...

Quoted message said:

Bill Putnam discovered that Shimano cassette cogs
also fit nicely with all but 3 splines removed.

Yep. My Kid-Kid tandem uses that system:

http://sheldonbrown.org/bicycle.html#kkt

Quoted message said:

In the olden days a Sturmey trigger shifting a 2-cog derailleur predated
"index" systems!

The Sturmey-Archer hub was an early application of space technology to
consumer products: planetary gearing!

Sheldon "Too Many Gears" Brown
+-------------------------------------------+
| It's easier to be original and foolish |
| than original and wise. |
| --Gottfried Wilhelm Leibniz |
+-------------------------------------------+
Harris Cyclery, West Newton, Massachusetts
Phone 617-244-9772 FAX 617-244-1041
http://harriscyclery.com
Hard-to-find parts shipped Worldwide
http://captainbike.com http://sheldonbrown.com

Frank Krygowski reminisced:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Long, long ago I came across a guy riding a touring bike with a very
odd looking rear hub. I asked about it. Turns out it was a
Sturmey-Archer 3 speed with a five speed freewheel grafted onto it.
IIRC, he had 45 gears. Not very necessary on a 700C wheel, IMO, but
the 3 x 5 could be useful for a folder.

I had a similar rig on the Moulton Deluxe (16 inch wheels) I rode from
Boston to Montreal in 1969, I think that was a 4 speed freehwel on a 3
speed hub with a 72/52 double chainring. A friend used to note that
this was the only bike he ever saw with a 52 tooth granny gear...

I believe the freewheel was 15-24.

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Anybody know if the adapting hardware is still available? ISTM it
wouldn't take much.

Andy Muzi said:

Raleigh used to sell a Cyclo kit with 2 or 3 cogs together that snapped
right on an SA splined driver.

Yep, I put one of these on my Elswick Tour Anglais back in '59 or '60.
It was a three sprocket model, on a four speed FW hub. I was the first
kid on my block to have a 12 speed bike when most folks hadn't even hear
of 10 speeds.

Quoted message said:

Raleigh dealers offered new Raleigh 3
speeds with a six or nine speed option and cheaply too. Under $10 IIRC.
The impossibly small box held your cogs, a new snapring, a couple of
chain links and a Cyclo flat-spring derailleur with a pretty aluminum
downtube lever. Full gear casing and aluminum (pre-zip ties!) cable
strips. That's the low-normal derailleur Sheldon waxes nostalgic about
occasionally.

We've got a few of the Cyclo 2 and 3 sprocket units in stock from an old
bike shop's stock we bought out...

Unfortunately, the smallest sprokets for these are 16 tooth, not so
wonderful for small wheel bikes.

Quoted message said:

A Sturmey Archer threaded driver can take any freewheel if you block the
body,either by jamming ratchets or welding/brazing the inner and outer
bodies.

I've still got a couple of bikes set up this way, my 72 speed OTB:

http://sheldonbrown.org/otb.html

and a 54 speed setup on one of my home-made tandems.

http://sheldonbrown.org/bicycle.html#t3

There's no actual need to block the bodies. I did usually remove the
adjuster shims from the freewheels when I used to do this .

Quoted message said:

More simply, removing the spacers on a regular AW leaves room for two
cogs with bevels facing away from each other (Sizes 15 and smaller are
flat, not beveled).

I did that when I was in high school, back in the Pleistocene...

Quoted message said:

Bill Putnam discovered that Shimano cassette cogs
also fit nicely with all but 3 splines removed.

Yep. My Kid-Kid tandem uses that system:

http://sheldonbrown.org/bicycle.html#kkt

Quoted message said:

In the olden days a Sturmey trigger shifting a 2-cog derailleur predated
"index" systems!

The Sturmey-Archer hub was an early application of space technology to
consumer products: planetary gearing!

Sheldon "Too Many Gears" Brown
+-------------------------------------------+
| It's easier to be original and foolish |
| than original and wise. |
| --Gottfried Wilhelm Leibniz |
+-------------------------------------------+
Harris Cyclery, West Newton, Massachusetts
Phone 617-244-9772 FAX 617-244-1041
http://harriscyclery.com
Hard-to-find parts shipped Worldwide
http://captainbike.com http://sheldonbrown.com

Frank Krygowski reminisced:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Long, long ago I came across a guy riding a touring bike with a very
odd looking rear hub. I asked about it. Turns out it was a
Sturmey-Archer 3 speed with a five speed freewheel grafted onto it.
IIRC, he had 45 gears. Not very necessary on a 700C wheel, IMO, but
the 3 x 5 could be useful for a folder.

I had a similar rig on the Moulton Deluxe (16 inch wheels) I rode from
Boston to Montreal in 1969, I think that was a 4 speed freehwel on a 3
speed hub with a 72/52 double chainring. A friend used to note that
this was the only bike he ever saw with a 52 tooth granny gear...

I believe the freewheel was 15-24.

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Anybody know if the adapting hardware is still available? ISTM it
wouldn't take much.

Andy Muzi said:

Raleigh used to sell a Cyclo kit with 2 or 3 cogs together that snapped
right on an SA splined driver.

Yep, I put one of these on my Elswick Tour Anglais back in '59 or '60.
It was a three sprocket model, on a four speed FW hub. I was the first
kid on my block to have a 12 speed bike when most folks hadn't even hear
of 10 speeds.

Quoted message said:

Raleigh dealers offered new Raleigh 3
speeds with a six or nine speed option and cheaply too. Under $10 IIRC.
The impossibly small box held your cogs, a new snapring, a couple of
chain links and a Cyclo flat-spring derailleur with a pretty aluminum
downtube lever. Full gear casing and aluminum (pre-zip ties!) cable
strips. That's the low-normal derailleur Sheldon waxes nostalgic about
occasionally.

We've got a few of the Cyclo 2 and 3 sprocket units in stock from an old
bike shop's stock we bought out...

Unfortunately, the smallest sprokets for these are 16 tooth, not so
wonderful for small wheel bikes.

Quoted message said:

A Sturmey Archer threaded driver can take any freewheel if you block the
body,either by jamming ratchets or welding/brazing the inner and outer
bodies.

I've still got a couple of bikes set up this way, my 72 speed OTB:

http://sheldonbrown.org/otb.html

and a 54 speed setup on one of my home-made tandems.

http://sheldonbrown.org/bicycle.html#t3

There's no actual need to block the bodies. I did usually remove the
adjuster shims from the freewheels when I used to do this .

Quoted message said:

More simply, removing the spacers on a regular AW leaves room for two
cogs with bevels facing away from each other (Sizes 15 and smaller are
flat, not beveled).

I did that when I was in high school, back in the Pleistocene...

Quoted message said:

Bill Putnam discovered that Shimano cassette cogs
also fit nicely with all but 3 splines removed.

Yep. My Kid-Kid tandem uses that system:

http://sheldonbrown.org/bicycle.html#kkt

Quoted message said:

In the olden days a Sturmey trigger shifting a 2-cog derailleur predated
"index" systems!

The Sturmey-Archer hub was an early application of space technology to
consumer products: planetary gearing!

Sheldon "Too Many Gears" Brown
+-------------------------------------------+
| It's easier to be original and foolish |
| than original and wise. |
| --Gottfried Wilhelm Leibniz |
+-------------------------------------------+
Harris Cyclery, West Newton, Massachusetts
Phone 617-244-9772 FAX 617-244-1041
http://harriscyclery.com
Hard-to-find parts shipped Worldwide
http://captainbike.com http://sheldonbrown.com

Frank Krygowski reminisced:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Long, long ago I came across a guy riding a touring bike with a very
odd looking rear hub. I asked about it. Turns out it was a
Sturmey-Archer 3 speed with a five speed freewheel grafted onto it.
IIRC, he had 45 gears. Not very necessary on a 700C wheel, IMO, but
the 3 x 5 could be useful for a folder.

I had a similar rig on the Moulton Deluxe (16 inch wheels) I rode from
Boston to Montreal in 1969, I think that was a 4 speed freehwel on a 3
speed hub with a 72/52 double chainring. A friend used to note that
this was the only bike he ever saw with a 52 tooth granny gear...

I believe the freewheel was 15-24.

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Anybody know if the adapting hardware is still available? ISTM it
wouldn't take much.

Andy Muzi said:

Raleigh used to sell a Cyclo kit with 2 or 3 cogs together that snapped
right on an SA splined driver.

Yep, I put one of these on my Elswick Tour Anglais back in '59 or '60.
It was a three sprocket model, on a four speed FW hub. I was the first
kid on my block to have a 12 speed bike when most folks hadn't even hear
of 10 speeds.

Quoted message said:

Raleigh dealers offered new Raleigh 3
speeds with a six or nine speed option and cheaply too. Under $10 IIRC.
The impossibly small box held your cogs, a new snapring, a couple of
chain links and a Cyclo flat-spring derailleur with a pretty aluminum
downtube lever. Full gear casing and aluminum (pre-zip ties!) cable
strips. That's the low-normal derailleur Sheldon waxes nostalgic about
occasionally.

We've got a few of the Cyclo 2 and 3 sprocket units in stock from an old
bike shop's stock we bought out...

Unfortunately, the smallest sprokets for these are 16 tooth, not so
wonderful for small wheel bikes.

Quoted message said:

A Sturmey Archer threaded driver can take any freewheel if you block the
body,either by jamming ratchets or welding/brazing the inner and outer
bodies.

I've still got a couple of bikes set up this way, my 72 speed OTB:

http://sheldonbrown.org/otb.html

and a 54 speed setup on one of my home-made tandems.

http://sheldonbrown.org/bicycle.html#t3

There's no actual need to block the bodies. I did usually remove the
adjuster shims from the freewheels when I used to do this .

Quoted message said:

More simply, removing the spacers on a regular AW leaves room for two
cogs with bevels facing away from each other (Sizes 15 and smaller are
flat, not beveled).

I did that when I was in high school, back in the Pleistocene...

Quoted message said:

Bill Putnam discovered that Shimano cassette cogs
also fit nicely with all but 3 splines removed.

Yep. My Kid-Kid tandem uses that system:

http://sheldonbrown.org/bicycle.html#kkt

Quoted message said:

In the olden days a Sturmey trigger shifting a 2-cog derailleur predated
"index" systems!

The Sturmey-Archer hub was an early application of space technology to
consumer products: planetary gearing!

Sheldon "Too Many Gears" Brown
+-------------------------------------------+
| It's easier to be original and foolish |
| than original and wise. |
| --Gottfried Wilhelm Leibniz |
+-------------------------------------------+
Harris Cyclery, West Newton, Massachusetts
Phone 617-244-9772 FAX 617-244-1041
http://harriscyclery.com
Hard-to-find parts shipped Worldwide
http://captainbike.com http://sheldonbrown.com

Frank Krygowski reminisced:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Long, long ago I came across a guy riding a touring bike with a very
odd looking rear hub. I asked about it. Turns out it was a
Sturmey-Archer 3 speed with a five speed freewheel grafted onto it.
IIRC, he had 45 gears. Not very necessary on a 700C wheel, IMO, but
the 3 x 5 could be useful for a folder.

I had a similar rig on the Moulton Deluxe (16 inch wheels) I rode from
Boston to Montreal in 1969, I think that was a 4 speed freehwel on a 3
speed hub with a 72/52 double chainring. A friend used to note that
this was the only bike he ever saw with a 52 tooth granny gear...

I believe the freewheel was 15-24.

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Anybody know if the adapting hardware is still available? ISTM it
wouldn't take much.

Andy Muzi said:

Raleigh used to sell a Cyclo kit with 2 or 3 cogs together that snapped
right on an SA splined driver.

Yep, I put one of these on my Elswick Tour Anglais back in '59 or '60.
It was a three sprocket model, on a four speed FW hub. I was the first
kid on my block to have a 12 speed bike when most folks hadn't even hear
of 10 speeds.

Quoted message said:

Raleigh dealers offered new Raleigh 3
speeds with a six or nine speed option and cheaply too. Under $10 IIRC.
The impossibly small box held your cogs, a new snapring, a couple of
chain links and a Cyclo flat-spring derailleur with a pretty aluminum
downtube lever. Full gear casing and aluminum (pre-zip ties!) cable
strips. That's the low-normal derailleur Sheldon waxes nostalgic about
occasionally.

We've got a few of the Cyclo 2 and 3 sprocket units in stock from an old
bike shop's stock we bought out...

Unfortunately, the smallest sprokets for these are 16 tooth, not so
wonderful for small wheel bikes.

Quoted message said:

A Sturmey Archer threaded driver can take any freewheel if you block the
body,either by jamming ratchets or welding/brazing the inner and outer
bodies.

I've still got a couple of bikes set up this way, my 72 speed OTB:

http://sheldonbrown.org/otb.html

and a 54 speed setup on one of my home-made tandems.

http://sheldonbrown.org/bicycle.html#t3

There's no actual need to block the bodies. I did usually remove the
adjuster shims from the freewheels when I used to do this .

Quoted message said:

More simply, removing the spacers on a regular AW leaves room for two
cogs with bevels facing away from each other (Sizes 15 and smaller are
flat, not beveled).

I did that when I was in high school, back in the Pleistocene...

Quoted message said:

Bill Putnam discovered that Shimano cassette cogs
also fit nicely with all but 3 splines removed.

Yep. My Kid-Kid tandem uses that system:

http://sheldonbrown.org/bicycle.html#kkt

Quoted message said:

In the olden days a Sturmey trigger shifting a 2-cog derailleur predated
"index" systems!

The Sturmey-Archer hub was an early application of space technology to
consumer products: planetary gearing!

Sheldon "Too Many Gears" Brown
+-------------------------------------------+
| It's easier to be original and foolish |
| than original and wise. |
| --Gottfried Wilhelm Leibniz |
+-------------------------------------------+
Harris Cyclery, West Newton, Massachusetts
Phone 617-244-9772 FAX 617-244-1041
http://harriscyclery.com
Hard-to-find parts shipped Worldwide
http://captainbike.com http://sheldonbrown.com