geared 36er

Daytripper63 said:

Will any square taper crank arm fit the geared Schlumpf?

Pretty much. The Schlumpf shift buttons screw onto the center of the
axle and are secured by a tiny allen set screw. There is a thin
threaded shift rod through the square tapered axle itself, which is
activated laterally by hitting the shift buttons on either side.
As long as the crank arm has the standard hole to fit a screw-on crank
remover, the shift buttons, which fit in the same area, should also
fit. The buttons sit about half-in, half-out of the crank.
Newer versions of the Schlumpf supposedly shift crisper (i.e. less free
play).

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I don't know that a geared wheel with longer cranks is really faster
than an ungeared wheel with short cranks and a fast rider.

The thing with a geared 36er is that you can ride a good speed with a
relaxed cadence vs. spinning your butt off. It's sort of a spinning vs.
mashing thing.

With a geared 36er, you have to get more muscle into the cranks, which
is harder to do than on a bicycle where you have more leverage. If you
think about it, 54 gear inches (36*1.5) is still a relatively low gear
for a bike. I think unicycles lend themselves more to a faster cadance

Also, regarding big geared wheels vs. small geared wheels, I find that
the larger wheels are much more stable (as Greg also mentioned) Geared
unicycles are "twitchy" and require a fast reaction time. The smaller
the wheel, the twitchier they are.

DustinSchaap said:

Greg I rode a 36" geared for a minute or two at Unicon and it was quite
disapointing... saying that the unicycle had 125mm or 140mm cranks on
which didn't get me more speed than 80mm or 90mm, a 36" with short
cranks would probably ride better. Maybe Greg can answer this question,
why are all the gear ratio's so small? Myself I would be going for a
smaller wheel and a heavier gear ratio instead of a big wheel with a
'small' ratio like 1.5 is it because above 1.5/1.6 is mechanically
impossible or is there a longer train of thoughts behind it?

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So it's better to get used to a good 36 than a geared uni. That is what
I thought, and I am getting different length cranks that I switch on
the trails. It would be a lot of fun to try it out a geared uni
though.

I'll have to wait till my next few paychecks🙁

--
Danni

leo said:

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The schlumpf is lots of fun, but accelerates so fast and stops so quick
due to the weight and the gearing that I would use a good fixed 36" if
I was doing more than 30 miles as it's more work to keep a constant
stedy speed with the schlumpf. I do know you can get it as a 36" and
the new Nimbus 36" frame has the screw holes for the arm that comes off
the gearing as roger owns one and designs the nimbus. I would of
though that it would cost around £950-£1050 as the 29" schlumpf is
around £890 and the nimbus frame is £70, and you also need to get spoke
made as the hub is wider than normal, and they need to be stronger.
hope that helps

p.s. if there are lots of hills on you ride though, the schlumpf really
comes in to its own!! I love it when i come down a big hill and
smoothly drop down a gear for a big up hill! that's when it all seem
worth wile! 😉

Pete

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petit_pierre said:

T I would of though that it would cost around £950-£1050 as the 29"
schlumpf is around £890 and the nimbus frame is £70, and you also need
to get spoke made as the hub is wider than normal, and they need to be
stronger. hope that helps

Unfortunately the maths isn't that simple, 29" rim + tyre+ tube = £60
maybe? 36" rim + tyre+ tube = £165 by my reckoning. Also buying the
parts seperately costs more, it comes out at a bit above £1050

--
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Dave

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Mmm, what you guys say makes sense but I am still interested in seeing
what a small wheel with heavy gears would do, yes it would be harder to
ride but isn't that just getting used to? A lot of people say riding a
coker with 80mm cranks is insane but they've never tried it, for me
100mm was just a little step down from 114, and 90mm was just a little
step down from the 100's, and 80 was just a wee step down from 90's, I
could probably go smaller but eventually you just hit a barrier and I
think the future for 'road' riding is gears.

Mscalisi, you say riders with a high cadence might be able to beat
geared riders, we sure did at Unicon haha but on a more flat terrain I
think that geared unicycles would win over, I have a max cadence of
just above 200RPM downhill and 150RPM for a long period of time on
flat, for me the next step is not improving my RPM to let's say 160,
but for me the step is to see how to better spend that energy, if you
look at the world hour record for bicyclists their RPM has always been
between 100 and 110, if you look at what my RPM was at my hour record
it was above 150RPM and Patrick Schmid's attempt was even worse, maybe
someone wants to calculate it, 27.18km on a 36" wheel with 114mm cranks
I believe, Ken please correct me if I'm wrong, I think he used the
102's on the marathon and 114mm on the record attempt but I can't be
sure.

--
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I agree that the jury is still out, and it will be interesting to see
the results as more strong riders have access to geared wheels. I will
say this: In Laos, I was on a standard 36" and when Gilby put the juice
on his geared 29er, I could not keep up. Then again, he may have been
able to drop me using a non-geared cycle.

Still, putting power into your stroke on a unicycle is hard. On a bike,
you have clipless pedals and handle bars as things to help you muscle
your cycle (yes, we have handles, but it's not quite the same).

DustinSchaap said:

Mscalisi, you say riders with a high cadence might be able to beat
geared riders, we sure did at Unicon haha but on a more flat terrain I
think that geared unicycles would win over, I have a max cadence of
just above 200RPM downhill and 150RPM for a long period of time on
flat, for me the next step is not improving my RPM to let's say 160,
but for me the step is to see how to better spend that energy, if you
look at the world hour record for bicyclists their RPM has always been
between 100 and 110, if you look at what my RPM was at my hour record
it was above 150RPM and Patrick Schmid's attempt was even worse, maybe
someone wants to calculate it, 27.18km on a 36" wheel with 114mm cranks
I believe, Ken please correct me if I'm wrong, I think he used the
102's on the marathon and 114mm on the record attempt but I can't be
sure.

--
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Quoted message said:

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DustinSchaap said:

Mscalisi, you say riders with a high cadence might be able to beat
geared riders, we sure did at Unicon haha but on a more flat terrain I
think that geared unicycles would win over

But that race at Unicon was almost flat - it just had a couple of
little uphills and one downhill, not all that steep. I know Holland is
different, but we don't have any rides around here that are that flat.
I think that rides like Ride the Lobster will be much more hilly. To
me, that is the real world of unicycling.

However if special flat-terrain unicycle races are ever done (or more
attempts on time records), of course geared uni should be able to win.

---Nathan

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DustinSchaap said:

Mscalisi, you say riders with a high cadence might be able to beat
geared riders, we sure did at Unicon haha but on a more flat terrain I
think that geared unicycles would win over, I have a max cadence of
just above 200RPM downhill and 150RPM for a long period of time on
flat, for me the next step is not improving my RPM to let's say 160,
but for me the step is to see how to better spend that energy, if you
look at the world hour record for bicyclists their RPM has always been
between 100 and 110, if you look at what my RPM was at my hour record
it was above 150RPM and Patrick Schmid's attempt was even worse, maybe
someone wants to calculate it, 27.18km on a 36" wheel with 114mm cranks
I believe, Ken please correct me if I'm wrong, I think he used the
102's on the marathon and 114mm on the record attempt but I can't be
sure.

Wow, that's a long sentence, got your breath back yet?

I used 110's for the Marathon and mostly 102's (but also 110's) for the
24hr Record. I've not tried 80mm cranks on a Coker but 102mm is much
faster than 110's for flat terrain. Once you throw in a hill or two,
then 110's are faster.

I think my 29'er Schlumpf is faster on the flat then my Coker. It's
probably about the same or slightly faster on undulating terrain also.
I have a time trial that I ride from my place to the sea 34km return
trip. The fastest I've done it is about 1hr30 on my Coker. Fastest on
the 29'er Schlumpf was also about the same, except I wasn't trying as
hard.

For the Unicon Marathon, I used the Coker because it was easier to
descend with (I haven't been able to ride fast downhill since breaking
my leg). Also, gears didn't make that much difference on that
particular course because you would have stayed in high gear the whole
way. So it's more a case of picking your gear- 36" or 43.5"

Ken

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LiveWire Unicycles is basically in the hold stage for all operations,
including continued development of the Outta Phaze setup. I've worked
a huge amount on it and have enough ideas to last a few years at least,
so I'm not giving up. However, many physical and financial
circumstances have changed in the past year and a half and, for now,
I'm not able to continue work on it, or even on any other unicycle or
wheel building. Customers that have put down deposits will receive
refunds as I'm able to provide them. Then, if I can get the
development going again, we can start over from scratch as desired.

I'm continually amazed at Pete's super pioneering work and I suspect
that you'll see more of it in the future.

Thanks for mentioning me and LWU -- I've thoroughly enjoyed this
distributed co-development with you guys!

--
U-Turn

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GizmoDuck said:

I think my 29'er Schlumpf is faster on the flat then my Coker. It's
probably about the same or slightly faster on undulating terrain also.

For the Unicon Marathon, I used the Coker because it was easier to
descend with

Yeah I think geared unicycles really own on flat courses. On the last
day of SINZ across the very flat Canterbury Plains I couldn't keep up
with Hans on his Schlumpf 36", even with 110mm cranks on my Coker.

For the Unicon Marathon, I used Ken's Schlumpf 29er because I didn't
bring a road unicycle of my own! It was a pretty good course for a
Schlumpf and I only shifted to low gear once.

--
TonyMelton

Even a stopped clock gives the right time twice a day.
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TonyMelton said:

Yeah I think geared unicycles really own on flat courses. On the last
day of SINZ across the very flat Canterbury Plains I couldn't keep up
with Hans on his Schlumpf 36", even with 110mm cranks on my Coker.

It occurs to me that whilst you guys totally owned me on the hilly
days, several times that flat day I was riding along behind Hans and
whilst it wasn't super easy to keep up, it wasn't impossible, and I was
sure as hell less fit than you. So maybe you have a point here.

Catching up with him, after he got a head start off the rest stop and I
wanted to get photos of all the riders was super hard work though.

Joe

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So I went on schulfp's website.. its all in german.. can anyone tell me
the price for the hub 😕 thx

--
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maxcarriere said:

So I went on schulfp's website.. its all in german.. can anyone tell me
the price for the hub

'THIS SHOULD BE THE ENGLISH VERSION.'
(http://schlumpfdrive.com/?sl=en&sid=&u_s=0&u_a=56) Look for the
ENGLISH/DEUTSCH toggle button in the upper left hand corner of the
pages. I think he prices a frame, hub, and cranks together, not the hub
itself.

--
harper

-Greg Harper

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To all, please don't overlook the fact that it is (probably
exponentially) harder to ride ANY unicycle at faster speeds. A geared
wheel will have you going faster than you think, relative to a given
cadence, but the greater focus needed is from the ground speed itself,
not the fact that a guni is geared.

Also, it would help the world if opinions on crank lengths for gunis
are based on actual experiences. The concept of shorter cranks on a
direct drive wheel is well-known to many. But few riders have yet been
able to experiment with crank lengths on gunis, and a reliable
consensus has yet to be established. As with bikes, riders' ideal
cadences vary somewhat. We have a way to go before we can say that a
crank length of x is generally accepted as optimal for an effective
gear ratio (i.e. overall virtual wheel diameter) of y, for a wheel size
of z. I only state this because a shorter crank on a guni yields MUCH
less control than on a direct drive wheel.

--
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unisk8r said:

A geared wheel will have you going faster than you think, relative to a
given cadence, but the greater focus needed is from the ground speed
itself, not the fact that a guni is geared.

My experience is different. Sure you're going faster (in relation to
your cadence), but I can ride an ungeared Coker *much* faster than the
speed I was cruising on the geared one in that race. Speed was *not*
the reason for the kind of focus I was having to apply. The major
factor there is powering a more sluggish wheel. I think it's pretty
obvious once you're on the thing.

--
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John Foss
Email: "jfoss" at "unicycling.com" -- www.unicycling.com
-----------------------------------------------

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johnfoss said:

My experience is different. Sure you're going faster (in relation to
your cadence), but I can ride an ungeared Coker *much* faster than the
speed I was cruising on the geared one in that race. Speed was *not*
the reason for the kind of focus I was having to apply. The major
factor there is powering a more sluggish wheel. I think it's pretty
obvious once you're on the thing.

I can't question your personal experience John. But for the guni
experience in general, the results so far indicate that for any given
wheel size, a guni is faster than a direct drive on fairly level
ground. It definitely is a different ride, but you're the first to
call it "sluggish"! What size/gear/crank length did you have?

Hills? Whole 'nother question. Large effective wheel diameters, whether
gotten by a big direct-drive wheel or a gear ratio, don't climb well.
Kinda like bikes, eh? Hence the preference for direct-drive (i.e. lower
gear ratio).
It would of course be interesting to see a downhill race with both
direct drives & gunis.

--
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I think by sluggish he was referring to the extra drag and inertia of
the gearing system. I also rode a schlumpf 36" in the unicon marathon,
in low gear the whole way, and it is harder work than riding a direct
drive coker, even though I was on long cranks I could feel the extra
effort to accelerate, like riding with a coker steel rim instead of an
airfoil (although not to the same extent). The gears inside those hubs
may be small but they have to go round at one hell of a rate giving
them a high effective rotational inertia.

--
kington99

Dave

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kington99 said:

I think by sluggish he was referring to the extra drag and inertia of
the gearing system. I also rode a schlumpf 36" in the unicon marathon,
in low gear the whole way, and it is harder work than riding a direct
drive coker, even though I was on long cranks I could feel the extra
effort to accelerate, like riding with a coker steel rim instead of an
airfoil (although not to the same extent). The gears inside those hubs
may be small but they have to go round at one hell of a rate giving
them a high effective rotational inertia.

In low gear, or 1:1, all of the gears are locked together and the only
thing the rider would feel is the residual backlash. The rotational
inertia added by the hub is quite small in this case. Most of the
rotational inertia is stored in the massive tire, tube, and wheel at
the relatively large effective radius of those combined components.
Even with a heavy hub, the mass at the small effective radius of the
hub (actually, the difference between the geared hub mass times its
effective radius and the standard hub mass times its effective radius)
produces much less rotational inertia than the outer wheel components.

The planet gears spin at about twice the wheel speed when running in
1:1.5 mode. Since these gears are tiny and have tiny radii they add
almost no rotational inertia. But because they are tiny they are
necessarily bushed and have no bearings so they do introduce a lot of
friction.

--
harper

-Greg Harper

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unisk8r said:

Also, it would help the world if opinions on crank lengths for gunis are
based on actual experiences. The concept of shorter cranks on a direct
drive wheel is well-known to many.

It is a good point, the crank length means different things to
different people. My geared 36" uni has 165mm cranks, which are crazily
long for most people. When geared up the cadence is lower for a certain
groundspeed, but my leg is still moving in that 165mm radius circle
that it does at lower gear. I think that with practice (which I don't
do enough of since my Guni can either be at university or at home, for
transport reasons, and I thought I'd ride it more during holidays so at
the moment its staying back in Oxford) I would eventually replace the
165mm cranks with some 140mm ones, and see how that effects the overall
feel of the uni.

My thought process was as such: "Its going to be really hard to learn
to ride a 36er in 1:1.5 with short cranks, since I have no 36"
experience, so do I get short cranks and learn in 1:1, or long cranks
and learn in 1:1.5?" Since riding in 1:1.5 is harder than 1:1 due to
the problems already mentioned, I thought that learning in 1:1.5, even
with an uncomfortably large pedal circle, was better overall. 'I've
still not quite got it right however'
(

). You have less control and
less ability to 'zone out' on a geared uni, and until I'm much more
comfortable riding one, I won't be going back on mine without full
safety kit.

Loose.

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Vice President - Southampton University Circus Society

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