Gates on national cycle network

Just Visiting said:

There's an NCN route that I pass by quite frequently that goes through the
grounds of a school. The last couple of weekends that I've seen it gates at
both sides of the school have been padlocked shut. There's still a gate
that you can open that would allow a bike to get through without too much
hassle, but is the school allowed to do this?

I am amazed that it exists in the first place. With the risks posed by
stranger danger during school periods etc... However, unless it was a
right of way, footpath etc or has been used as such for a period of
time, I do not remember the length required to acquire the status, then
yes, they can close the gates and padlock them if they so wish. Provided
of course they have not entered into some other agreement with the
providers of the NCN and providing the NCN does not have some other
legal route protection.

It was my understanding that NCN providers had to enter into agreements
with landowners for passage where it crossed private land. The school
may be unaware that this might have been agreed at council level or it
could be that the larger gates have allowed motorcycles or other
vehicles/thieves easy access. Perhaps a letter to the school secretary
would secure an answer.

Sniper8052

Quoted message said:

I am amazed that it exists in the first place. With the risks posed by
stranger danger during school periods etc... However, unless it was a
right of way, footpath etc or has been used as such for a period of time,
I do not remember the length required to acquire the status, then yes,
they can close the gates and padlock them if they so wish. Provided of
course they have not entered into some other agreement with the providers
of the NCN and providing the NCN does not have some other legal route
protection.

It was my understanding that NCN providers had to enter into agreements
with landowners for passage where it crossed private land. The school may
be unaware that this might have been agreed at council level or it could
be that the larger gates have allowed motorcycles or other
vehicles/thieves easy access. Perhaps a letter to the school secretary
would secure an answer.

Sniper8052

Some of the NCN routes are on land that does not necessarily have a public
right of way and permission has been granted by the landowners. As long as
you have reasonable access then the landowner is probably discharging their
obligations to Sustrans. I have come across worse obstructions than a gate
on an NCN route. Tandem riders and recumbant riders have a worse deal than
conventional cyclists with some of the devices deployed to restrict access
to cycles, pedestrains and horses.

Writing to the school secretary might not provide you with an answer as the
land belongs to the council and not the school. The gate locking might well
be a council policy rather than the school's. Like Sniper, I am surprised
that the route goes through school grounds. Most schools now exist in
fenced off enclaves to prevent the entry of unwelcome visitors (this can
include parents and pupils!) and to prevent the exit of pupils during of the
designated hours of teaching. I can not envisage the school where I teach
having a route through its grounds though at the school where my son
attended there was a path that passed between two school campuses and
offered a short cut between two parallel roads the path was fenced at both
sides preventing access to the school campuses.

On Sun, 29 Oct 2006 20:35:59 GMT someone who may be
"Sniper8052(L96A1)" <[email hidden]> wrote this:-

Quoted message said:

However, unless it was a
right of way, footpath etc or has been used as such for a period of
time, I do not remember the length required to acquire the status, then
yes, they can close the gates and padlock them if they so wish. Provided
of course they have not entered into some other agreement with the
providers of the NCN and providing the NCN does not have some other
legal route protection.

A school near Edinburgh closed a public right of way without
discussing it with anyone. When people objected they seemed to think
that the word Dunblane would convince anyone that they were doing
the right thing and anyone who objected wanted all the children to
be abused/murdered or whatever. It is difficult to deal with that
sort of idiot. I don't know what the eventual outcome was.

--
David Hansen, Edinburgh
I will *always* explain revoked encryption keys, unless RIP prevents me
http://www.opsi.gov.uk/acts/acts2000/00023--e.htm#54

Quoted message said:

A school near Edinburgh closed a public right of way without
discussing it with anyone. When people objected they seemed to think
that the word Dunblane would convince anyone that they were doing
the right thing and anyone who objected wanted all the children to
be abused/murdered or whatever. It is difficult to deal with that
sort of idiot. I don't know what the eventual outcome was.

Dunblane was one of several incidents which prompted the erection of fencing
around schools. To cite Dunblane as the sole reason for the existence of
fencing isn't good enough but as previously mentioned, there are a whole
host of security issues that the fencing helps to negate. As for the
closing of a right of way - I thought it was incumbent upon the organisation
closing the ROW to provide an alternative path. Having said that, the
alternative cycle path for a partial route closure on the Hadrian's Cycleway
in Carlisle was far from suitable as a footpath nevermind a cyclepath.

Sniper8052(L96A1) said:

With the risks posed by
stranger danger during school periods etc...

What are the risks of *stranger danger* compared with vehicle danger.
For example, how many children's lives a year are lost to strangers
wondering through school grounds compared with vehicles on roads
outside schools.

I suggest the locking gates across roads outside schools would save
more lives than locking the gates to a public footpath.

Tom Crispin wrote on 30/10/2006 09:55 +0100:

Quoted message said:

What are the risks of *stranger danger* compared with vehicle danger.
For example, how many children's lives a year are lost to strangers
wondering through school grounds compared with vehicles on roads
outside schools.

Pretty constant over many decades. Six children killed a year by
strangers, 60 by family and at the last count IIRC about 200 by motor
vehicles. Would that they would put as much effort into two child road
deaths as they would into Soham

Quoted message said:

I suggest the locking gates across roads outside schools would save
more lives than locking the gates to a public footpath.

The Daily Depress will be sending round a lynch mob for attitudes like
that. If just one child's life could be saved (without inconveniencing
motorists) :-(

--
Tony

"Anyone who conducts an argument by appealing to authority is not using
his intelligence; he is just using his memory."
- Leonardo da Vinci

"David Hansen" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

On Sun, 29 Oct 2006 20:35:59 GMT someone who may be
"Sniper8052(L96A1)" <[email hidden]> wrote this:-

Quoted message said:

However, unless it was a
right of way, footpath etc or has been used as such for a period of
time, I do not remember the length required to acquire the status, then
yes, they can close the gates and padlock them if they so wish. Provided
of course they have not entered into some other agreement with the
providers of the NCN and providing the NCN does not have some other
legal route protection.

Responders have overlooked the original poster saying "There's still a gate
that you can open that would allow a bike to get through without too much
hassle,"

In Birmingham the NCN goes through Cannon Hill Park which is sometimes
closed to free access by the public for special events without a signposted
diversion. At other times, when there has been a free to enter event, I've
been told not to cycle on the divided cycle/pedestrian path.

www.JohnPitcock.co.uk

vernon said:

Quoted message said:

A school near Edinburgh closed a public right of way without
discussing it with anyone. When people objected they seemed to think
that the word Dunblane would convince anyone that they were doing
the right thing and anyone who objected wanted all the children to
be abused/murdered or whatever. It is difficult to deal with that
sort of idiot. I don't know what the eventual outcome was.

Dunblane was one of several incidents which prompted the erection of fencing
around schools. To cite Dunblane as the sole reason for the existence of
fencing isn't good enough but as previously mentioned, there are a whole
host of security issues that the fencing helps to negate. As for the
closing of a right of way - I thought it was incumbent upon the organisation
closing the ROW to provide an alternative path. Having said that, the
alternative cycle path for a partial route closure on the Hadrian's Cycleway
in Carlisle was far from suitable as a footpath nevermind a cyclepath.

Hmm, Wessex Street in Norwich has been closed, to allow pupils at
Bignold School to have an exclusive crossing to a playing field.
There was a notice and discussion about 3 years before this happened.
Unfortunately I wasn't in the consultation area. Before this closure,
Wessex Street had been pedestrianised, with nice cycle access to the road.
After, there was an ugly 12 foot high barrier across it. I'm not sure what
it looks like now as I've no reason to go past the end of Wessex Street
anymore.

So now my favourite route to walk or cycle to St. Stephens Street
is blocked and I must make a detour that adds perhaps half a mile to
my journey. Not onerous on a bike, but a drag if you're walking. The
alternatives require you to spend more time on main roads. If I
lived even closer to Wessex Street I'd be incandescent as this action
has effectively ghettoised a little piece of Norwich. No alternative
has been provided. Councillors point out that the decision is
effectively irreversible.

--
Jan
from a slightly less fine city.

On Mon, 30 Oct 2006 10:29:25 +0000 someone who may be Tony Raven
<[email hidden]> wrote this:-

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

What are the risks of *stranger danger* compared with vehicle danger.
For example, how many children's lives a year are lost to strangers
wondering through school grounds compared with vehicles on roads
outside schools.

Pretty constant over many decades. Six children killed a year by
strangers, 60 by family and at the last count IIRC about 200 by motor
vehicles.

The Daily Wail can't have any of this sort of factual information
being introduced into the discussion. You are obviously someone who
needs to be put on at least one list:-)

Quoted message said:

Would that they would put as much effort into two child road
deaths as they would into Soham

Though of course the over-reaction to that has failed to address the
general issue because that is too difficult, so instead they did
something which was all about being seen to be doing something.

If anyone is not aware of it, the general issue is that the two
young ladies went to see their former classroom assistant and
unfortunately ran into her boyfriend. Unless the so-called checking
is to extend to boyfriends, girlfriends and anyone else who might
happen to be in the house of anyone involved with education then it
does nothing to prevent the same sort of think happening again,
despite the huge amount of money squandered on it.

--
David Hansen, Edinburgh
I will *always* explain revoked encryption keys, unless RIP prevents me
http://www.opsi.gov.uk/acts/acts2000/00023--e.htm#54

Just Visiting wrote on 29/10/2006 14:06 +0100:

Quoted message said:

There's an NCN route that I pass by quite frequently that goes through the
grounds of a school. The last couple of weekends that I've seen it gates at
both sides of the school have been padlocked shut. There's still a gate
that you can open that would allow a bike to get through without too much
hassle, but is the school allowed to do this?

There's a long stretch of the NCN2 along the promenade in Bournemouth
that is closed to bicycles in July and August.

--
Tony

"Anyone who conducts an argument by appealing to authority is not using
his intelligence; he is just using his memory."
- Leonardo da Vinci

Tony Raven said:

There's a long stretch of the NCN2 along the promenade in Bournemouth that
is closed to bicycles in July and August.

Doesn't part of Brighton promenade have the same problem (and haven't you
described the detour around it before)?

Mike

Mike Causer wrote on 30/10/2006 18:54 +0100:

Quoted message said:

Tony Raven said:

There's a long stretch of the NCN2 along the promenade in Bournemouth that
is closed to bicycles in July and August.

Doesn't part of Brighton promenade have the same problem (and haven't you
described the detour around it before)?

But that's Usenet: 10% new information, 90% recycled old information ;-)

--
Tony

"Anyone who conducts an argument by appealing to authority is not using
his intelligence; he is just using his memory."
- Leonardo da Vinci

Tony Raven said:

But that's Usenet: 10% new information, 90% recycled old information ;-)

And 80% dis information, plus 45% troll information: so that's 264%
total information when combined in a large muslin bag and given a good
shaking.

My hovercraft is bereft of eels!

Mike

Mike Causer wrote on 30/10/2006 23:29 +0100:

Quoted message said:

Tony Raven said:

But that's Usenet: 10% new information, 90% recycled old information ;-)

And 80% dis information, plus 45% troll information: so that's 264%
total information when combined in a large muslin bag and given a good
shaking.

My hovercraft is bereft of eels!

You forgot the 68.15% of dodgy statistics ;-)

My nipples explode with delight.

--
Tony

"Anyone who conducts an argument by appealing to authority is not using
his intelligence; he is just using his memory."
- Leonardo da Vinci

Just Visiting said:

There's an NCN route that I pass by quite frequently that goes through the
grounds of a school. The last couple of weekends that I've seen it gates
at both sides of the school have been padlocked shut.

NCN 11 to the north of Cambridge was closed last Sunday for a fishing
competition. The sign was still there today.

Luckily this is a dead-end spur of NCN 11 that doesn't go anywhere, but
Sustrans' long-term plan is that it should be the main route between
Cambridge & Ely.

Mike