Gaitline the great

Lewis failed drug test leading up to Seoul yet was still allowed to be
on the team & in the games. this fact significantly taints his career.

Jesse Owens tied the world record of 9.4 in the 100-yard dash, set a
world record with a 20.3 second 220-yard dash, set another world mark
in running the 220 low hurdles in 22.6, (and also long jumped 26-8
1/4). He did all this on the same single day at the Big Ten
Championships......and not just the same day....he did all these things
within 1 single hour.

TBR...you never heard of John Carlos...have you? World's Best Sprinter
for 1969 & '70
World Rank #1 - 100yd Dash 1969 & '70. World Rank #1 - 220yd Dash 1969
& '70. This guy was like a "Dennis Rodman" character in his
day.....before races he could be found in the stands with the fans
socializing and "chumming it up".....a few minutes before a race he
would leave the stands, stretch a bit....and blow away the competition.
He was a showman.

I'd rank both of these guy ahead of your top 3. I love MJ but he's
benefited from all sorts of technologies/shoes/surfaces etc...Carlos
never saw.

I love Pre but c'mon....gotta give more props to Ryun. And you
should not exclude hurdlers in which case Moses has gotta be in the top
3 all time. Hell Bob Hayes would even rank ahead of Gaitline. There's
a few women I could name too....but no drug cheats (Lewis, Flo, etc.)

Quoted message said:

I love MJ

You are WAY too old for Michael Jackson.

TBR

"As democracy is perfected, the office of president represents, more and
more closely, the inner soul of the people. On some great and glorious day
the plain folks of the land will reach their heart's desire at last and the
White House will be adorned by a downright moron."
H.L. Mencken (1880 - 1956)
"Anyone with degrees from Yale and Harvard is presumed to be intelligent,
but George W. Bush has managed to overcome that presumption."
S**t list: Charlie Bendahoe, TBR imposter

TheTuBeR said:

Justin Gaitline is the greatest sprinter of all time. He himself
said that.

So did Maurice Green, and he has the GOAT tattoo to prove it. The tat
trumps the verbal claim. So with Green + Gaitlin as #1 and #2, the
only slot left to choice is #3. So here's my rankings.

fast guys
---------
1. Green (tattoo)
2. Gaitlin (verbal claim)
3. Ato Boldon (Trinidad's the best: calypso, carnival, bake & shark,
scarlet ibis)

joggers
-------
1. Emil Zatopek (mucho macho)
2. Haile Satayin (oldest 2004 Olympic marathoner, best name)
3. The Vicar (mucho macho, lucha libre: http://tinyurl.com/bcpld)

Charlie Pendejo said:

TheTuBeR said:

Justin Gaitline is the greatest sprinter of all time. He himself
said that.

So did Maurice Green, and he has the GOAT tattoo to prove it. The tat

It used to stand for "greatest of all time", now he's just acting the goat.

Cheers,
--
Donovan Rebbechi
http://pegasus.rutgers.edu/~elflord/

TheTBR said:

Among runners and joggers of all distances:
1. Gaitline
2. Prefontain
3. Gebersellasie

Hah! Pre wouldn't be on my list even if we were just talking Americans.

Cheers,
--
Donovan Rebbechi
http://pegasus.rutgers.edu/~elflord/

Unless these mouth breathers are sprinting to get me a beer, I couldn't
care less.

Donovan Rebbechi said:

Pre wouldn't be on my list even if we were just talking Americans.

Me neither.

So who are your top 3, DR? Herb Elliot, Deek, and, uh, Herb Elliot?
;-) The discussion seems to be implicitly about top men, so no fair
taking Cathy Freeman.

Miss Anne Thrope said:

Unless these mouth breathers are sprinting to get me a beer, I couldn't
care less.

Buttercup, the fact that you commented means you COULD care less (and I
wish you would).

tkb

On 12 Aug 2005 07:37:29 -0700, "Charlie Pendejo" <[email hidden]>

Quoted message said:

Donovan Rebbechi said:

Pre wouldn't be on my list even if we were just talking Americans.

Me neither.

Pre was a cowardly little punk.

TBR

"As democracy is perfected, the office of president represents, more and
more closely, the inner soul of the people. On some great and glorious day
the plain folks of the land will reach their heart's desire at last and the
White House will be adorned by a downright moron."
H.L. Mencken (1880 - 1956)
"Anyone with degrees from Yale and Harvard is presumed to be intelligent,
but George W. Bush has managed to overcome that presumption."
S**t list: Charlie Bendahoe, TBR imposter

TenKBabe said:

(and I
wish you would).

Care less? Or sprint to you with a beer?

TBR

"As democracy is perfected, the office of president represents, more and
more closely, the inner soul of the people. On some great and glorious day
the plain folks of the land will reach their heart's desire at last and the
White House will be adorned by a downright moron."
H.L. Mencken (1880 - 1956)
"Anyone with degrees from Yale and Harvard is presumed to be intelligent,
but George W. Bush has managed to overcome that presumption."
S**t list: Charlie Bendahoe, TBR imposter

Charlie Pendejo said:

Donovan Rebbechi said:

Pre wouldn't be on my list even if we were just talking Americans.

Me neither.

So who are your top 3, DR? Herb Elliot, Deek, and, uh, Herb Elliot?
;-) The discussion seems to be implicitly about top men, so no fair
taking Cathy Freeman.

Dunno. Of the recent guys, I'd have to put Geb and Morceli in the top 3. El G
would be right up there. Elliot is a contender on the all-time list with bonuses
for longevity (Elliot not as good here). I'd give a lot of weight to long
undefeated streaks, so people like El G, Morceli and even Elliot are good in my
book. Komen ran fast, but didn't dominate the sport in the same way as El G
and Geb.

Out of the Americans, there are a number of guys who I'd place above Pre.
Frank Shorter, Jim Ryun, Bob Schul, Billy Mills, Bill Rodgers for example.
I think Pre is a little overrated. I mean, I'm not going to call him a "loser"
like some other guy did, but there are a number of less known American runners
with more impressive records.

Cheers,
--
Donovan Rebbechi
http://pegasus.rutgers.edu/~elflord/

Donovan Rebbechi said:

Bill Rodgers for example.

Thank you Donnie.

TBR

"As democracy is perfected, the office of president represents, more and
more closely, the inner soul of the people. On some great and glorious day
the plain folks of the land will reach their heart's desire at last and the
White House will be adorned by a downright moron."
H.L. Mencken (1880 - 1956)
"Anyone with degrees from Yale and Harvard is presumed to be intelligent,
but George W. Bush has managed to overcome that presumption."

Hold your horses there Pal. I'm not going to let you and CP diminish
Pre to this measure. In highschool he broke the American record for
the 2 mile run. How many American runners have done something like
that? When he died he held every American track and field record
from the 2,000 to the 10,000 meters. How many American runners can say
something along these lines?

-seven NCAA titles: three in cross-country, '70, '71, '73; and four in
the three-mile in track, '70, '71, '72 and '73. (the first athlete to
win four consecutive NCAA track titles in the same event (5K)

Most importantly for today's athletes...he fought the AAU which
demanded that athletes who wished to remain "amateur" for the Olympics
not be paid for appearances in track meets. So when today's elites get
big $$ in appearance fees for showing up at events...(yet remain
eligable for the Olympics)...they can thank people like Pre who were on
the front lines and first wave in this battle. This is another
distinguishing aspect of who he was in the world of middle distance
running.....how many American runners fought to change the system for
the betterment of all?

Pre did a number of things in his time....that no other American
Runners had ever done before....plus he's the most "quotable" runner.
Today Americans love "brash" personalities in their athletes. Pre was
so ahead of his time in this regard and had a "cult" following and fan
base in a time when....well..this was unheard of (sans Muhammad Ali I
suppose).

To characterize Pre as overrated is.....flawed in many ways. Have you
compared him in context?....with other runners up through their 24th
year of age? Is it fair to compare Pre to another runner who had a
career 2 and 3 times longer than Pre? Pre's not overrated one bit.

You forgot he was a coward, and backed out of every race he thought he
could not win, or simply didn't show up. But the answer to your below
BS is that the talent pool in that area at that time was [censored].

Quoted message said:

Hold your horses there Pal. I'm not going to let you and CP diminish
Pre to this measure. In highschool he broke the American record for
the 2 mile run. How many American runners have done something like
that? When he died he held every American track and field record
from the 2,000 to the 10,000 meters. How many American runners can say
something along these lines?

-seven NCAA titles: three in cross-country, '70, '71, '73; and four in
the three-mile in track, '70, '71, '72 and '73. (the first athlete to
win four consecutive NCAA track titles in the same event (5K)

Most importantly for today's athletes...he fought the AAU which
demanded that athletes who wished to remain "amateur" for the Olympics
not be paid for appearances in track meets. So when today's elites get
big $$ in appearance fees for showing up at events...(yet remain
eligable for the Olympics)...they can thank people like Pre who were on
the front lines and first wave in this battle. This is another
distinguishing aspect of who he was in the world of middle distance
running.....how many American runners fought to change the system for
the betterment of all?

Pre did a number of things in his time....that no other American
Runners had ever done before....plus he's the most "quotable" runner.
Today Americans love "brash" personalities in their athletes. Pre was
so ahead of his time in this regard and had a "cult" following and fan
base in a time when....well..this was unheard of (sans Muhammad Ali I
suppose).

To characterize Pre as overrated is.....flawed in many ways. Have you
compared him in context?....with other runners up through their 24th
year of age? Is it fair to compare Pre to another runner who had a
career 2 and 3 times longer than Pre? Pre's not overrated one bit.

TBR

"As democracy is perfected, the office of president represents, more and
more closely, the inner soul of the people. On some great and glorious day
the plain folks of the land will reach their heart's desire at last and the
White House will be adorned by a downright moron."
H.L. Mencken (1880 - 1956)
"Anyone with degrees from Yale and Harvard is presumed to be intelligent,
but George W. Bush has managed to overcome that presumption."

Quoted message said:

I'm not going to let you and CP diminish Pre to this measure.

Whoa there big fella. By ranking him possibly as high 4th best
American runner of all time, we're "diminishing" him? Puh-leeze.

I'm not saying he wasn't damn good. I'm just saying there's a lot of
good runners in our history, and "top 3" only has room for a handful, a
handful numbering between two and four in fact.

If the category is "best male American runners of all time, all
distances" I'd probably cast two votes for Jesse Owens and Frank
Shorter and spend the next few days reading and pondering who else.

Quoted message said:

Most importantly for today's athletes...he fought the AAU

Yeah, I can respect that immensely but if the category is "best
runners" it doesn't come into play. For "running hall of fame" it
weighs heavily.

Quoted message said:

Today Americans love "brash" personalities in their athletes.

Yeah most do, and most also love enormous SUV's, [censored] beer, and
country singers with mullets. I prefer humble athletes and brash
Usenet posters. Or really I prefer the total screwball athlete - which
seems to have been most prevalent in baseball pitchers, like Dock Ellis
or Bill "Spaceman" Lee. (Or I guess Gabe Jennings, if we're talking
American runners...)

Quoted message said:

Is it fair to compare Pre to another runner who had a career
career 2 and 3 times longer than Pre?

It's done all the time in sports comparisons, whether in bars, on radio
talk shows, or on the net. Hundreds of brilliant athletes have had
careers cut short by death or debilitating injury. Bo Jackson may have
had more talent than just about any of his baseball or football peers;
but was he the best baseball or football player in the 80's and 90's?

You're certainly free to advance your own category such as "best five
year racing spans" or "best college runners" or "most-hyped runners
who, nonetheless, in my opinion, lived up to that (largely post-mortem)
hype".

Quoted message said:

Hold your horses there Pal. I'm not going to let you and CP diminish
Pre to this measure. In highschool he broke the American record for
the 2 mile run. How many American runners have done something like
that?

Lindgren, and Ryun.

Quoted message said:

When he died he held every American track and field record
from the 2,000 to the 10,000 meters. How many American runners can say
something along these lines?

(1) I don't consider records to have the same weight as dominance/victories.
(2) winning in America doesn't count in my book. Nearly anyone who has achieved
anything was dominant in America during their day.

Quoted message said:

-seven NCAA titles: three in cross-country, '70, '71, '73; and four in
the three-mile in track, '70, '71, '72 and '73. (the first athlete to
win four consecutive NCAA track titles in the same event (5K)

Winning the NCAA is not comparable to winning an olympic gold.

Quoted message said:

To characterize Pre as overrated is.....flawed in many ways. Have you
compared him in context?....with other runners up through their 24th
year of age?

It's true that he had a lot of potential. A lot of people have potential, not
all of them fulfill it.

Quoted message said:

Is it fair to compare Pre to another runner who had a
career 2 and 3 times longer than Pre?

I agree -- it's not fair to compare Pre with the greatest American runners.
It's more fair to compare Pre to potentially great runners who never quite
made it (like Santee for example)

Cheers,
--
Donovan Rebbechi
http://pegasus.rutgers.edu/~elflord/

Miss Anne Thrope said:

Unless these mouth breathers are sprinting to get me a beer, I couldn't
care less.

How about a coke?

Spearmon, paging Wallace Spearmon... http://tinyurl.com/cyyfl