Gag speaks...Monex drops the ball.

You can send your comments to Monex at [email hidden]

"chris" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

From Cyclingnews. Apparently, Monex doesn't give a [censored] about
attempted assault, so maybe they should add a good doping program as
well. Gag sounds pretty much like a kid making excuses.

After a disciplinary hearing found Team Monex rider Robert Gaggioli
guilty of assault for attacking fellow rider Jonny Sundt with a 2x4 at
the Cheaha Challenge, the outspoken Italian-American has defended his
actions, saying he only wanted to "scare" Sundt and described his
six-month suspension as "excessive". In addition, Gaggioli has
indicated "I'm going to manage the team, no matter what", despite the
ban encompassing participating as a rider or a manager in any USA
Cycling or UCI events from May 31 to December 31, 2004.

"I don't know if it was for defending myself or what, I just grabbed a
two-by-four," Gaggioli recalled in an interview with Cyclingnews' Mark
Zalewski on the eve of the USPRO Championships. "Everyone knows about
it, I'm not lying - I admitted it. I grabbed it to scare him. I hit
the bike. I didn't try to hurt him. If I wanted to hurt him I would
hurt in hin the race, you know? That's the easy way. We were two
people involved in the incident, and I'm the only one to pay for it."

Speaking about the numerous defamatory articles that have being posted
about him in Internet newsgroups, Gaggioli retorted by saying, "I feel
sorry for them because I am going to be there a longer time than them.
I think these people there don't have any life. That is why they are
posting there."

Nevertheless, Gaggioli is determined to continue managing the Monex
team, who, according to himself, are right behind him.

"I'm going to manage the team, no matter what. I am suspended from
anything requiring a USCF or UCI license. So I can't follow the race
in the car, or pick numbers up at the meeting, but I am still managing
the team, I am still the director. Monex is still after me and I'm the
only one who can do the job. They don't really care what's happening,
because they know if it happened, that there is a reason for it," he
said

B. Lafferty said:

You can send your comments to Monex at [email hidden]

Already did........

And I hope everyone else does too.

--
le Vent a Dos
Davey Crockett
Six-Day site: http://members.rogers.com/sixday/sixday.html
Please address all replies to the list

In article <[email hidden]>, chris

Quoted message said:

From Cyclingnews. Apparently, Monex doesn't give a [censored] about
attempted assault, ...

How would you characterize Sundt's actions during the preceding races
that lead to this confrontation?

-WG

Davey Crockett <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:<[email hidden]>...

Quoted message said:

B. Lafferty said:

You can send your comments to Monex at [email hidden]

Already did........

And I hope everyone else does too.

Also be sure to mention what a gentleman and a sport/class act that
that Johnny Sundt is.

No one should threten anyone with a 2x4 nor should they swing
it at someone's bike; but then, no one races like Sundt, according
to published reports.

-Ken

Quoted message said:

From: warren [email hidden]

Quoted message said:

How would you characterize Sundt's actions during the preceding races
that lead to this confrontation?

-WG

The same thing we tell our 10 year old, got tell a teacher, or in this case an
official. Punching people out is not the answer, and using a deadly weapon is
even stupider. It got him suspended just like it does our 10 year old.
Bill C

In article <[email hidden]>, TritonRider

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

From: warren [email hidden]

Quoted message said:

How would you characterize Sundt's actions during the preceding races
that lead to this confrontation?

-WG

The same thing we tell our 10 year old, got tell a teacher, or in this case
an
official. Punching people out is not the answer, and using a deadly weapon is
even stupider. It got him suspended just like it does our 10 year old.

You didn't answer the question. And do you really think telling an
official would have stopped Sundt from doing what he apparently does
often?

-WG

Quoted message said:

From: warren [email hidden]

Quoted message said:

You didn't answer the question. And do you really think telling an
official would have stopped Sundt from doing what he apparently does
often?

-WG

Quoted message said:

You didn't answer the question. And do you really think telling an
official would have stopped Sundt from doing what he apparently does
often?

-WG

I guess the people that I've recommended for relegation, or DQ who were, and
those that other officials have gotten for unsafe, or foul riding never
happened.
Yes, I do think that going to the officials with witnesses is the route to
take. It may not happen that race, but they will be watching his behavior much
more closely after that.
Bill C

"warren" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

In article <[email hidden]>, TritonRider

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

From: warren [email hidden]

Quoted message said:

How would you characterize Sundt's actions during the preceding races
that lead to this confrontation?

-WG

The same thing we tell our 10 year old, got tell a teacher, or in this

case

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

an
official. Punching people out is not the answer, and using a deadly

weapon is

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

even stupider. It got him suspended just like it does our 10 year old.

You didn't answer the question. And do you really think telling an
official would have stopped Sundt from doing what he apparently does
often?

-WG

Ahh jeezus Warren, I can't take the anticipation! Tell us...what does Johnny
"apparently do often"?? I would really like to hear the other side of the
story because all I've heard is that Gaglioli attacked him with a 2x4. I
can't imagine (even as much of an ass I "hear" Roberto is) that he would
just do it for the hell of it.. Johnny must have provoked him (either
intentionally or by accident) somehow.

By the way, it also sounds like you're defending Roberto? (side issue..)

Danny Callen

On Tue, 08 Jun 2004 01:23:30 GMT, warren <[email hidden]>

Quoted message said:

You didn't answer the question. And do you really think telling an
official would have stopped Sundt from doing what he apparently does
often?

If he got DQ'd a couple times and lost money/places it would.

JT

In article <[email hidden]>, Danny Callen

Quoted message said:

Ahh jeezus Warren, I can't take the anticipation! Tell us...what does Johnny
"apparently do often"?? I would really like to hear the other side of the
story because all I've heard is that Gaglioli attacked him with a 2x4. I
can't imagine (even as much of an ass I "hear" Roberto is) that he would
just do it for the hell of it.. Johnny must have provoked him (either
intentionally or by accident) somehow.

Descriptions of that appeared here and elsewhere (cyclingnews,
velonews) about Sundt's riding style, and what happened before the 2 x
4 came into play.

Quoted message said:

By the way, it also sounds like you're defending Roberto? (side issue..)

I've said the 2x4 is not the way to do it, but discouraging Sundt's
behavior, or discouraging anybody else who's getting too agressive is
something that has to be done sometimes. People get all upset if it
happens outside the racing but at least if it's outside the racing the
two combatants aren't going to cause any problems (crashes) for the
other guys in the race.

And Bill thinks the officials will handle it... How well did they
handlle what preceded the 2 x 4? Or the untold numbers of other
incidents with these and other racers that aren't punished because the
officials didn't see it for themselves?

As far as I'm concerned, since Gaggioli and Sundt are okay with how
they worked it out between themselves and they didn't hurt anybody else
then it's a done deal. I read also that Sundt agreed that he shouldn't
be taking his hands off his bars to shove people off the road during
races.

-WG

In article <[email hidden]>, John Forrest

Tomlinson said:

On Tue, 08 Jun 2004 01:23:30 GMT, warren <[email hidden]>

Quoted message said:

You didn't answer the question. And do you really think telling an
official would have stopped Sundt from doing what he apparently does
often?

If he got DQ'd a couple times and lost money/places it would.

I agree. How many times do you think Gaggioli or other riders would get
threatened or injured before that would happen? Hasn't even happened to
Gaggioli yet and he's had more than a few incidents over the years. How
about a former Olympic sprinter who's occasionally pushing guys out of
his way during the finales of local-level 35+ races?

-WG

On Tue, 08 Jun 2004 02:16:39 GMT, warren <[email hidden]>

Quoted message said:

And Bill thinks the officials will handle it... How well did they
handlle what preceded the 2 x 4? Or the untold numbers of other
incidents with these and other racers that aren't punished because the
officials didn't see it for themselves?

The officials can't be everywhere, but it'd the sport would be better
off it riders reported horrendous behaviour more often.

JT

John Forrest To said:

warren said:

And Bill thinks the officials will handle it... How well did they
handlle what preceded the 2 x 4? Or the untold numbers of other
incidents with these and other racers that aren't punished because the
officials didn't see it for themselves?

The officials can't be everywhere, but it'd the sport would be better
off it riders reported horrendous behaviour more often.
JT

You can report it all you want. The officials will always say "well, we
didn't see it, sorry".

From what I have heard from people who have had first hand experiences
with Sundt, I think Warren's comments are spot-on. It's like hockey -
if the refs don't control the little incidents with small penalties,
you wind up with a bench-clearing brawl and everyone gets booted out
of the game.

--

pedalchick said:

John Forrest To said:

warren said:

And Bill thinks the officials will handle it... How well did they
handlle what preceded the 2 x 4? Or the untold numbers of other
incidents with these and other racers that aren't punished because the
officials didn't see it for themselves?

The officials can't be everywhere, but it'd the sport would be better
off it riders reported horrendous behaviour more often.
JT

You can report it all you want. The officials will always say "well, we
didn't see it, sorry".

I've heard that. I've also head "Get a few more people to talk to
us." And after awhile, officials keep their eyes open more for certain
guys. That might not be effective on the national circuit with
different officials every weekend, but it can help.

JT

warren <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:<[email hidden]>...

Quoted message said:

In article <[email hidden]>, John Forrest

Tomlinson said:

On Tue, 08 Jun 2004 01:23:30 GMT, warren <[email hidden]>

Quoted message said:

You didn't answer the question. And do you really think telling an
official would have stopped Sundt from doing what he apparently does
often?

If he got DQ'd a couple times and lost money/places it would.

I agree. How many times do you think Gaggioli or other riders would get
threatened or injured before that would happen? Hasn't even happened to
Gaggioli yet and he's had more than a few incidents over the years. How
about a former Olympic sprinter who's occasionally pushing guys out of
his way during the finales of local-level 35+ races?

Is his name Ken?
Ken pushed me out of the way at Burlingame last year on the final lap.

-the other Ken

Quoted message said:

-WG

Sundt would be alone here. A friend of mine had "issues" with
Nothstein who likes to use his mass to push people around. The
solution to his problem was to crash Nothstein out of the race. He
never ran into this problem again.

The problem is that this stuff goes on no matter where you are, its
racing (for better or worse). What I was always told is that you
leave your hands on the bars, end of story; if you can't "muscle
people around" with your hands on the bars, then you should step back.
It doesn't make any of this right, but officials can't always, and
sometimes don't want to do anything about even when there are
witnesses.

Personally, a good old fist fight isn't always a bad thing if you can
resolve things, but when 2x4's, knives or other things get involved
then things get out of control...Maybe we should set up a boxing ring.

"Its all fun and games..."

Chris

pedalchick <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:<[email hidden]>...

Quoted message said:

John Forrest To said:

warren said:

And Bill thinks the officials will handle it... How well did they
handlle what preceded the 2 x 4? Or the untold numbers of other
incidents with these and other racers that aren't punished because the
officials didn't see it for themselves?

The officials can't be everywhere, but it'd the sport would be better
off it riders reported horrendous behaviour more often.
JT

You can report it all you want. The officials will always say "well, we
didn't see it, sorry".

From what I have heard from people who have had first hand experiences
with Sundt, I think Warren's comments are spot-on. It's like hockey -
if the refs don't control the little incidents with small penalties,
you wind up with a bench-clearing brawl and everyone gets booted out
of the game.

--

Just to jump back in. It's pretty easy to become an official. I don't know of
any area that has an excess, and most are fairly desperate for good people.
If you are willing to give up a few weekends to get your license and up to
speed, then you are only required to do a couple of races a year.
This gives you a legitimate right to [censored], because you are now part of the
solution. It saves your club and friends money by not having to pay a bunch of
mileage, or if you donate your days pay back to the club.
I was fairly anti-USCF to put it mildly, but in the last few years I've seen
Tom Vinson come on board with them, Diane Fortini take Nebra and handle the
region for them, Shawn Farrell become technical director at The Springs, the
track selection fiasco mostly reasonably solved with J-Me being selected when
noone thought he had a chance in hell due to politics.
Maybe it's time for more of you experienced people to step up and make a
difference.
I am privileged to be working in New England with some truly fantastic people
who really do give a [censored] and I think it shows in our racing. There's no reason
that you can't do the same wherever you are.
We aren't perfect by any stretch of the imagination, and I'm probably bringing
the average down, but I do recognize really good people around me.
Bill C

"warren" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

In article <[email hidden]>, Danny Callen

Quoted message said:

Ahh jeezus Warren, I can't take the anticipation! Tell us...what does

Johnny

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

"apparently do often"?? I would really like to hear the other side of

the

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

story because all I've heard is that Gaglioli attacked him with a 2x4. I
can't imagine (even as much of an ass I "hear" Roberto is) that he would
just do it for the hell of it.. Johnny must have provoked him (either
intentionally or by accident) somehow.

Descriptions of that appeared here and elsewhere (cyclingnews,
velonews) about Sundt's riding style, and what happened before the 2 x
4 came into play.

Quoted message said:

By the way, it also sounds like you're defending Roberto? (side

issue..)

Quoted message said:

I've said the 2x4 is not the way to do it, but discouraging Sundt's
behavior, or discouraging anybody else who's getting too agressive is
something that has to be done sometimes. People get all upset if it
happens outside the racing but at least if it's outside the racing the
two combatants aren't going to cause any problems (crashes) for the
other guys in the race.

And Bill thinks the officials will handle it... How well did they
handlle what preceded the 2 x 4? Or the untold numbers of other
incidents with these and other racers that aren't punished because the
officials didn't see it for themselves?

As far as I'm concerned, since Gaggioli and Sundt are okay with how
they worked it out between themselves and they didn't hurt anybody else
then it's a done deal. I read also that Sundt agreed that he shouldn't
be taking his hands off his bars to shove people off the road during
races.

-WG

Again, thankds for the info. Admittedly, I've been riding my desk at work
more than being up on the details of the incident. I really wish officials
would take more agressive action towards riders that exhibit behaviours of
both these gentleman. I still can't say Roberto was justifiied but I was not
there! It is certainly safer than swinging at each other in the middle of a
sprint..

Danny Callen

"TritonRider" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Just to jump back in. It's pretty easy to become an official. I don't know

of

Quoted message said:

any area that has an excess, and most are fairly desperate for good

people.

Quoted message said:

If you are willing to give up a few weekends to get your license and up

to

Quoted message said:

speed, then you are only required to do a couple of races a year.
This gives you a legitimate right to [censored], because you are now part of

the

Quoted message said:

solution. It saves your club and friends money by not having to pay a

bunch of

Quoted message said:

mileage, or if you donate your days pay back to the club.
I was fairly anti-USCF to put it mildly, but in the last few years I've

seen

Quoted message said:

Tom Vinson come on board with them, Diane Fortini take Nebra and handle

the

Quoted message said:

region for them, Shawn Farrell become technical director at The Springs,

the

Quoted message said:

track selection fiasco mostly reasonably solved with J-Me being selected

when

Quoted message said:

noone thought he had a chance in hell due to politics.
Maybe it's time for more of you experienced people to step up and make a
difference.
I am privileged to be working in New England with some truly fantastic

people

Quoted message said:

who really do give a [censored] and I think it shows in our racing. There's no

reason

Quoted message said:

that you can't do the same wherever you are.
We aren't perfect by any stretch of the imagination, and I'm probably

bringing

Quoted message said:

the average down, but I do recognize really good people around me.
Bill C

Bill, Bill, Bill...you know we generally agree. Yes, we are extemely
fortunate to have the likes of Diane Fortini,etc in New England and I agree
that it takes a hell of a commitment to be an official and I GREATLY respect
those that do it. In this case, I don't think anyone is saying that all
officials act a certain way , etc, etc...but only that when there is
dangerous riding (especially in multiple incidents) that the officials need
to take a mored direct / harder line with the "suspect" and potentially
investigate the issue a bit??

Danny Callen