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Fun for all the family

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01 / Original postFun for all the familyJust zis Guy, you know? · 1 Oct 2005 02 / This pagePosts 1–15Page 1 of 1 · chronological order 03 / Latest replyPost #15Just zis Guy, you know? · 4 Oct 2005

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Original section
UK and Europe
Published
1 October 2005
Last activity
4 October 2005
Original author
Just zis Guy, you know?
Posts
15
Discussion status
Public discussion
Total views
363
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0
Topics
Bike lights

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  1. Original post
    Just zis Guy, you know?
    Archived post
    #1

    Wikipedia has rather a good article on bicycle lighting:
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bicycle_lighting

    I say good, but one person thinks it is wrong. He thinks so to the
    extent that he keeps reverting to his own, much less complete version
    of the article. And the moderators revert it back, usually within a
    minute. He has stated that this is vandalism - but since the alleged
    vandals are long-term Wikipedians with a substantial edit history,
    whereas he has (in his various guises) been involved in only one page,
    this claim lacks weight.

    Looking at it, the thing which this person dislikes appears to be the
    suggestion that lights other than super-bright halogen or HID systems
    might be adequate or safe. I wonder who this mystery anonymous person
    might be? One clue might be in the edit trail: the reverted version
    appears to be by user "scharf.steven", which sounds a lot like Steven
    M Scharf, or SMS as he is known these days, a man who considers
    himself "one of earth's leading authorities" on a number of subjects,
    but who is curiously shy about citing verifiable evidence to back his
    often-stated views...

    Guy
    --
    http://www.chapmancentral.co.uk

    "To every complex problem there is a solution which is
    simple, neat and wrong" - HL Mencken

    Report
  2. Zog The Undeniable
    Archived post
    #2
    Just zis Guy said:

    Looking at it, the thing which this person dislikes appears to be the
    suggestion that lights other than super-bright halogen or HID systems
    might be adequate or safe.

    Which is unfortunate, because neither are (technically) legal in the UK.
    Mind you, so is a dynamo headlamp with a 3W bulb (rather than 2.4W), I
    think.

    Report
  3. Martin Dann
    Archived post
    #3

    In message <433ee565.0@entanet>

    Zog The Undeniable said:
    Just zis Guy said:

    Looking at it, the thing which this person dislikes appears to be the
    suggestion that lights other than super-bright halogen or HID systems
    might be adequate or safe.

    Which is unfortunate, because neither are (technically) legal in the UK.
    Mind you, so is a dynamo headlamp with a 3W bulb (rather than 2.4W), I
    think.

    The maximum power for a primary front light is either 2.4 or 2.7W.
    This is silly when cars are allowed 100W.

    Martin.

    --
    According to the human genome project, humans are 50-60% bananas.
    When emailing me, please include the word Banana in the subject line.

    Report
  4. Mark Tranchant
    Archived post
    #4
    Martin Dann said:

    In message <433ee565.0@entanet>

    Zog The Undeniable said:
    Just zis Guy said:

    Looking at it, the thing which this person dislikes appears to be the
    suggestion that lights other than super-bright halogen or HID systems
    might be adequate or safe.

    Which is unfortunate, because neither are (technically) legal in the UK.
    Mind you, so is a dynamo headlamp with a 3W bulb (rather than 2.4W), I
    think.

    The maximum power for a primary front light is either 2.4 or 2.7W.
    This is silly when cars are allowed 100W.

    More than that: the usual setup is 2x5W sidelights plus 2x55W dipped
    beam, giving 120W. Local neds often use front fogs too, giving a total
    of 230W.

    I like my 20W Lumicycle on the dark roads, but I'd happily use more.
    Supernova P99-D for Christmas please... ;-)

    --
    Mark.
    http://tranchant.plus.com/

    Report
  5. Chris Malcolm
    Archived post
    #5
    Martin Dann said:

    In message <433ee565.0@entanet>
    Zog The Undeniable <[email hidden]> wrote:

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:
    Just zis Guy said:

    Looking at it, the thing which this person dislikes appears to be the
    suggestion that lights other than super-bright halogen or HID systems
    might be adequate or safe.

    Which is unfortunate, because neither are (technically) legal in the UK.
    Mind you, so is a dynamo headlamp with a 3W bulb (rather than 2.4W), I
    think.

    Quoted message said:

    The maximum power for a primary front light is either 2.4 or 2.7W.
    This is silly when cars are allowed 100W.

    It's also extremely silly considering it's a measurement of electrical
    power, and we have all kinds of technologies of widely differing
    efficiencies converting that to light. Still, that's what you get when
    you employ committees of arts graduates to legislate technology :-)

    I presume this means it would be quite legal for me to use on my bike
    a gas-powered limelight capable of illuminating enemy aeroplanes at
    20,000 feet, since it would consume less than 2.4W of electricity?

    --
    Chris Malcolm [email hidden] +44 (0)131 651 3445 DoD #205
    IPAB, Informatics, JCMB, King's Buildings, Edinburgh, EH9 3JZ, UK
    [http://www.dai.ed.ac.uk/homes/cam/]

    Report
  6. John Hearns
    Archived post
    #6
    Chris Malcolm said:


    Quoted message said:

    The maximum power for a primary front light is either 2.4 or 2.7W. This
    is silly when cars are allowed 100W.

    It's also extremely silly considering it's a measurement of electrical
    power, and we have all kinds of technologies of widely differing
    efficiencies converting that to light.


    I agree. I wonder if the vehicle regulations do not in reality specify
    lighting in terms of lumens (I assume this is the correct unit. Let the
    SI fun and games commence)

    Report
  7. iakobski
    Archived post
    #7
    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    I assume this is the correct unit

    It's not. ;-(

    The lumen is a measure of light falling on a surface. The SI unit for
    light emitted from a source is the candela.

    Report
  8. Alan Braggins
    Archived post
    #8
    In article said:
    Martin Dann said:

    The maximum power for a primary front light is either 2.4 or 2.7W.



    [...]

    Quoted message said:

    I presume this means it would be quite legal for me to use on my bike
    a gas-powered limelight capable of illuminating enemy aeroplanes at
    20,000 feet, since it would consume less than 2.4W of electricity?

    Not when the same legislation that has the power limit specifies
    an incandescent electric light bulb. It might be legal as an
    "auxiliary" light.

    Report
  9. Ian Smith
    Archived post
    #9
    Chris Malcolm said:

    I presume this means it would be quite legal for me to use on my bike
    a gas-powered limelight capable of illuminating enemy aeroplanes at
    20,000 feet, since it would consume less than 2.4W of electricity?

    Nope. It needs to be an electrically powered filament lamp. The
    wording that happens to ban LEDs (or past tense, as appropriate) was
    specifically to exclude combustion-based lamps (actually, I think it
    was carbide they didn't fancy). So I believe, anyway.

    regards, Ian SMith
    --
    |\ /| no .sig
    |o o|
    |/ \|

    Report
  10. the.Mark
    Archived post
    #10
    Mark Tranchant said:
    Martin Dann said:

    In message <433ee565.0@entanet>

    Zog The Undeniable said:

    Just zis Guy, you know? wrote:

    > Looking at it, the thing which this person dislikes appears
    > to be the suggestion that lights other than super-bright
    > halogen or HID systems might be adequate or safe.

    Which is unfortunate, because neither are (technically)
    legal in the UK. Mind you, so is a dynamo headlamp with a
    3W bulb (rather than 2.4W), I think.

    The maximum power for a primary front light is either 2.4 or
    2.7W. This is silly when cars are allowed 100W.

    More than that: the usual setup is 2x5W sidelights plus 2x55W
    dipped beam, giving 120W. Local neds often use front fogs too,
    giving a total of 230W.

    I like my 20W Lumicycle on the dark roads, but I'd happily use
    more. Supernova P99-D for Christmas please... ;-)

    What about:
    homebase.co.ukProductDisplay

    http://tinyurl.com/7feaw

    It's a bit big and I don't know how to fit it on the bike. ;-)
    --
    the.Mark

    Report
  11. Clive George
    Archived post
    #11

    "the.Mark" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
    news:[email hidden]...

    Quoted message said:

    What about:
    homebase.co.ukProductDisplay

    http://tinyurl.com/7feaw

    It's a bit big and I don't know how to fit it on the bike. ;-)

    Pah - if you want big and don't know how to fit it on the bike, I give you

    http://www.trinityhouse.co.uk/interactive/gallery/bardsey.html

    Comes with its own horn too.

    cheers,
    clive

    Report
  12. Danny Colyer
    Archived post
    #12

    the.Mark suggested:

    Quoted message said:

    What about:
    homebase.co.ukProductDisplay

    http://tinyurl.com/7feaw

    It's a bit big and I don't know how to fit it on the bike. ;-)

    Needs a helmet mount.

    --
    Danny Colyer (my reply address is valid but checked infrequently)
    <URL:http://www.speedy5.freeserve.co.uk/danny/>
    "He who dares not offend cannot be honest." - Thomas Paine

    Report
  13. the.Mark
    Archived post
    #13
    Clive George said:

    "the.Mark" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
    news:[email hidden]...

    Quoted message said:

    What about:
    homebase.co.ukProductDisplay

    http://tinyurl.com/7feaw

    It's a bit big and I don't know how to fit it on the bike. ;-)

    Pah - if you want big and don't know how to fit it on the
    bike, I give you
    http://www.trinityhouse.co.uk/interactive/gallery/bardsey.html

    Comes with its own horn too.

    cheers,
    clive

    Nice one. :-)

    The horn would be louder than my air zound.
    --
    the.Mark

    Report
  14. the.Mark
    Archived post
    #14
    Danny Colyer said:

    the.Mark suggested:

    Quoted message said:

    What about:
    homebase.co.ukProductDisplay

    http://tinyurl.com/7feaw

    It's a bit big and I don't know how to fit it on the bike. ;-)

    Needs a helmet mount.

    The rider would need a neck support.
    --
    the.Mark

    Report
  15. Just zis Guy, you know?
    Archived post
    #15

    I submit that on or about Mon, 03 Oct 2005 10:43:32 +0100, the person
    known to the court as John Hearns <[email hidden]> made a statement
    (<[email hidden]> in Your Honour's bundle)
    to the following effect:

    Quoted message said:

    I agree. I wonder if the vehicle regulations do not in reality specify
    lighting in terms of lumens (I assume this is the correct unit. Let the
    SI fun and games commence)

    The lumen is the unit of luminous flux, the unit of luminous intensity
    (which is what is used in the standards) is the candela.

    I did put some notes into the Wiki article about this:
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bicycle_lighting, look at the bottom of
    the page.

    One key thing which is specified for automotive lamps is the
    permissible intensity above the horizontal (the dazzle factor, for
    want of a better term). Chris Juden wanted to have the lighting regs
    rewritten to specify minimum and maxiumum luminous intensities in
    various zones, as the BS does, which would allow the use of any
    appropriate light source, but apparently that was too hard so they
    just ticked the box for flashing LEDs and left it at that.

    Guy
    --
    http://www.chapmancentral.co.uk

    "To every complex problem there is a solution which is
    simple, neat and wrong" - HL Mencken

    Report

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