Full suspension bike for $1600 or less

Doug Jordan said:

What is a good, reliable, durable full sus bike for around $1500? It
must have decent components.

Thanks

there isn't one. You should either look at a really nice hard tail, go
used, or up your budget.

"small change" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Doug Jordan said:

What is a good, reliable, durable full sus bike for around $1500? It
must have decent components.

Thanks

there isn't one. You should either look at a really nice hard tail, go
used, or up your budget.

I disagree. SJs are good bikes in that price range.

Quoted message said:

I disagree. SJs are good bikes in that price range.

(may be a double post - google doesn't like me right now)

You may be able to find a year end closeout (2k down to 1.5k). Maybe a
demo or 2 year old bike at a deeper discount. You could get a LX build
superlight for 1.5k (But I probably wouldn't).

cc said:

"small change" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Doug Jordan said:

What is a good, reliable, durable full sus bike for around $1500? It
must have decent components.

Thanks

there isn't one. You should either look at a really nice hard tail, go
used, or up your budget.

I disagree. SJs are good bikes in that price range.

I think Jamis bikes offer some of the best specs for the money

check out (2003 version here, but you get the idea):

from Mountain Bike magazxine:

Jamis Dakar XC Comp
You'll find great quality and comfort for a price that will provide you
with awesome specs.

Price: $1,360

Buy It If: You're an intermediate rider looking for your first
full-suspension bike.

This bike rocks because: Four-bar suspension and quality components
combine for a comfortable and efficient ride. Plus, it offers a very
strong parts spec for the money.

Significant Others: Kona Kikapu Deluxe ($1,899); Yeti Kokopelli Race
Disc ($2,389); Iron Horse Hollowpoint Expert ($2,400); Specialized Epic
FSR Pro ($3,040); Klein Palomino Team ($4,100).

April 2003

cc said:

"small change" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Doug Jordan said:

What is a good, reliable, durable full sus bike for around $1500? It
must have decent components.

Thanks

there isn't one. You should either look at a really nice hard
tail, go used, or up your budget.

I disagree. SJs are good bikes in that price range.

That's true. We're actually selling new 2004 Stumpy FSRs with Fox Float
forks for $1399. Doug, check your e-mail.

--
Phil, Squid-in-Training

How much of that price is pure profit? JEEZ! If you add up all the
componentry of one of those it couldn't possibly cost that much could
it?

So aluminum frame not titanium, <-- budget

I would have to say there must be 50% markup on those things, but maybe
I"m smoking crack. A person with the jig already made should be able
to weld up at least 20 frames a day and even at $50/hr, the labor on
the welded parts should be $20 each. Then there is assembly and tuning
and that's it for labor, say maybe $120 labor throughout. What do you
guys think the materials to make these things cost? (not what does each
part cost @ webcyclery,) what does it cost the manufacturer to buy the
parts?

x1134x said:

How much of that price is pure profit? JEEZ! If you add up all the
componentry of one of those it couldn't possibly cost that much could
it?

So aluminum frame not titanium, <-- budget

I would have to say there must be 50% markup on those things, but maybe
I"m smoking crack. A person with the jig already made should be able
to weld up at least 20 frames a day and even at $50/hr, the labor on
the welded parts should be $20 each. Then there is assembly and tuning
and that's it for labor, say maybe $120 labor throughout. What do you
guys think the materials to make these things cost? (not what does each
part cost @ webcyclery,) what does it cost the manufacturer to buy the
parts?

Look up Ceeway or one of the other frame component suppliers to
get an idea for a what a tubeset would cost if you were to weld up your
own bike. I'm sure somebody could make a guess at what Giant pay based
on their ginormous purchasing power.

Don't forget that materials cost can have little to do with the
price of the product in the shop. Supporting design, testing, marketing,
sales, staff training, tools and equipment and myriad other things can
easily make the cost of a product's materials pale into irrelevance but
are all expenses which much be supported by the product's sale even when
only looking at the price from the manufacturer.
--
Tim.

[email hidden]

Are different bike setups ie suspension designs, tube count, tube
design, patented so that the manufacturers pay each other royalties?
Do you think some of the designs are so old they've outlived patents?

x1134x said:

Are different bike setups ie suspension designs, tube count, tube
design, patented so that the manufacturers pay each other royalties?
Do you think some of the designs are so old they've outlived patents?

Well, diamond frame bikes have been around for so long that no
sane patent system would still cover them. Specific features (like Horst
link rear suspension) might be covered by patents though.

In the UK/ EU there must be an inventive step and the subject of
the patent should be novel and non-obvious to sombody knowlegable in the
field for a patent to be granted. By reputation USPTO will grant a
patent to any rubbish claim....

For something like a rigid/ hardtail there's only a finite
amount of variation & unless a company could prove you'd copied their
design exactly (same tubes, angles, any "signature" features) and
could possibly take action on copyright grounds there would be nothing
on which to claim.

--
Tim.

[email hidden]

cc said:

"small change" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Doug Jordan said:

What is a good, reliable, durable full sus bike for around $1500? It
must have decent components.

Thanks

there isn't one. You should either look at a really nice hard tail, go
used, or up your budget.

True, save and go boutique (just for you, Rimmer).

Quoted message said:

I disagree. SJs are good bikes in that price range.

You disagree because you don't know what you arte talking about. The
OP stated "good, reliable, durable" as key points. That's not possible
for around $1500.

"JD" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

cc said:

"small change" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Doug Jordan wrote:
> What is a good, reliable, durable full sus bike for around $1500? It
> must have decent components.
>
> Thanks

there isn't one. You should either look at a really nice hard tail,
go
used, or up your budget.

True, save and go boutique (just for you, Rimmer).

Quoted message said:

I disagree. SJs are good bikes in that price range.

You disagree because you don't know what you arte talking about. The
OP stated "good, reliable, durable" as key points. That's not possible
for around $1500.

That is your opinion. I have many data points to the contrary of that
opinion. You should stop being an [censored] and realize there are others
besides you with valid things to say.

cc said:

"JD" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

cc said:

"small change" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...
> Doug Jordan wrote:
>> What is a good, reliable, durable full sus bike for around $1500? It
>> must have decent components.
>>
>> Thanks
>
> there isn't one. You should either look at a really nice hard tail,
> go
> used, or up your budget.

True, save and go boutique (just for you, Rimmer).

Quoted message said:

I disagree. SJs are good bikes in that price range.

You disagree because you don't know what you arte talking about. The
OP stated "good, reliable, durable" as key points. That's not possible
for around $1500.

That is your opinion. I have many data points to the contrary of that
opinion. You should stop being an [censored] and realize there are others
besides you with valid things to say.

--------------------

For about $1,500 a stumpjumper FSR (04) is an excellent bike, as some
have written. You can do somme flexible things with your budget.
First the M4 frame is a good frame. The stock wheels and LX
componentry are not so good, though. The disc brakes are good. You
can get the FSR without disc brakes to save money and apply the
difference to a better drive train, or not and do it later, or get
lighter, better wheels. Point is that 1500 will get up on an excellent
FS bike that is very durable, and very flexibly upgradable. It's light
and can be raced. Tough and can take a beating for lots of XC miles
and fair amount of downhill.

czb said:

cc said:

"JD" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

cc wrote:
> "small change" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
> news:[email hidden]...
>> Doug Jordan wrote:
>>> What is a good, reliable, durable full sus bike for around
>>> $1500? It must have decent components.
>>>
>>> Thanks
>>
>> there isn't one. You should either look at a really nice hard
>> tail, go
>> used, or up your budget.

True, save and go boutique (just for you, Rimmer).

> I disagree. SJs are good bikes in that price range.

You disagree because you don't know what you arte talking about.
The OP stated "good, reliable, durable" as key points. That's not
possible for around $1500.

That is your opinion. I have many data points to the contrary of that
opinion. You should stop being an [censored] and realize there are
others besides you with valid things to say.

--------------------

For about $1,500 a stumpjumper FSR (04) is an excellent bike, as some
have written. You can do somme flexible things with your budget.
First the M4 frame is a good frame. The stock wheels and LX
componentry are not so good, though. The disc brakes are good. You
can get the FSR without disc brakes to save money and apply the
difference to a better drive train, or not and do it later, or get
lighter, better wheels. Point is that 1500 will get up on an
excellent FS bike that is very durable, and very flexibly upgradable.
It's light and can be raced. Tough and can take a beating for lots
of XC miles and fair amount of downhill.

The thing that gets me is that there are no valid data points for buying
boutique at this level. It's pretty obvious that the OP isn't a
high-mileage rider, so why would a newbie be looking for a boutique bike
that is overengineered for him or her?

IMO, there's no reason for a new rider to be spending $1.5k on a hardtail
when he doesn't know if he's going to be a weekend warrior or a epic
marathon rider. Besides, Stumpjumpers are more than adequate for long
rides, and unless the bike is abused or takes ridiculously high mileage,
it'll hold up. Good, handbuilt wheels are a far more important upgrade.
Boutique brands are there for people who know that boutique bikes are what
they need. Would you give your teenager a Bentley?

And no, I don't have a vested bike shop interest... I'd recommend buying
slightly used but a year or two old... that's what I end up doing half the
time anyway... or welding broken (aluminum!) frames and riding them...
--
Phil, Squid-in-Training

Phil said:

IMO, there's no reason for a new rider to be spending $1.5k on a hardtail
when he doesn't know if he's going to be a weekend warrior or a epic
marathon rider.

This logic rather escapes me. If somebody is looking to plunk down
$1.5K, you're suggesting they would be better off getting a
barely-adequate full suspension over a high-end hardtail?

JD, bless his pointed head, is, uh, a little dogmatic on the boutique
thing. But he is spot on with regard to the stupid emphasis on empty
technology as a substitute for quality (in the bike) and skill (in the
rider). $1.5K will buy you:

(a) A custom (or almost) singlespeed.
(b) A high-end stock hardtail.
(c) A seriously mediocre full suspension.

Take your pick.

CC

P.S.: FSRs are about the most overrated bike I can think of.

Corvus Corvax said:

Phil said:

IMO, there's no reason for a new rider to be spending $1.5k on a hardtail
when he doesn't know if he's going to be a weekend warrior or a epic
marathon rider.

This logic rather escapes me. If somebody is looking to plunk down
$1.5K, you're suggesting they would be better off getting a
barely-adequate full suspension over a high-end hardtail?

JD, bless his pointed head, is, uh, a little dogmatic on the boutique
thing. But he is spot on with regard to the stupid emphasis on empty
technology as a substitute for quality (in the bike) and skill (in the
rider). $1.5K will buy you:

(a) A custom (or almost) singlespeed.
(b) A high-end stock hardtail.
(c) A seriously mediocre full suspension.

Take your pick.

CC

P.S.: FSRs are about the most overrated bike I can think of.

that's a bunch of [censored]. a rider with a worry about spending $1500 and
not sure of what to buy is an inexperienced rider, so even if a good
single speed can be acquired for $1500 - not by seven for sure -
they're probably not fit enough to handle a ss. the post specifically
asked for fs, so while a very good hard tail can be acquired for 1500,
that's not what he asked for advice on. the assertion that 1500 can't
acquire a decent fs is bs. you just have to be creative. and that
means putting your dollars where they count - wheels and frame, and
upgrading componetry later. the ps is [censored] too. the fsr is an
outstanding $1500 purchase for what this rider/poster probably is - a
somewhat new rider still learning, but wanting a fs for reasons of
his/her own. maybe what you mean is you have a hard time riding an fsr
very fast and for you it's over-rated?

czb said:

a rider with a worry about spending $1500 and
not sure of what to buy is an inexperienced rider

A rider looking to spend $1500 is somebody who is ready to become an
experienced rider. Or an [censored]. The [censored] won't take good advice
anyway.

CC

x1134x said:

How much of that price is pure profit? JEEZ! If you add up all the
componentry of one of those it couldn't possibly cost that much could
it?

So aluminum frame not titanium, <-- budget

I would have to say there must be 50% markup on those things, but maybe
I"m smoking crack. A person with the jig already made should be able
to weld up at least 20 frames a day and even at $50/hr, the labor on
the welded parts should be $20 each. Then there is assembly and tuning
and that's it for labor, say maybe $120 labor throughout. What do you
guys think the materials to make these things cost? (not what does each
part cost @ webcyclery,) what does it cost the manufacturer to buy the
parts?

I don't know bout that frame or their markup, but you're missing a lot
work/time involved. After welding theres deburring, straightening, heat
treat, anodize, prime and paint. Heat treat, anodize and paint all have
a minimum charge. Alum cost is still going thru the roof and some sizes
(normally stocked) are now nowhere to be found. Alum tubing is
sometimes a premium, especially odd ball/custom sizes.

I'm sure there's some fat built into the selling price, but manf. cost
might be more $$ then you think.

FWIW, I do business with some machine shops that have done business with
cookie cutter and boutique manufacturers; (quality) machine time and
outside/special processing aint cheap. The boutique builders aren't
afraid to pay for quality work and keep it as close to home as
possible... it's a nice thing to know and helps me to open up my wallet
a little more to help them stay in business. We might not like the
prices, but trust me, it would be a cry'n shame if we were to lose them.
--
Slack - reformed cookie buyer

Slack said:

Slack - reformed cookie buyer

http://tinyurl.com/1hs

--
o-o-o-o Ride-A-Lot o-o-o-o
www.schnauzers.ws

but at least agree that 1500 can still buy a lotta bike if you buy smart