frenchyge said:L5 work is still almost entirely aerobic, and there's lots of overlap with L4 across the physiological adaptations (see chart attached). All those L5 benefits will help your threshold power as well.
I think the biggest danger for newbies who read the many threads on certain topics is to hear the same message so many times that they get the impression that there should be too much focus on one thing, to the exclusion of others, for the sake of "optimizing." You'll hear the same message so many times because so many people are asking nearly the same question, so keep that perspective.
IMO, most newbs will see the most benefit simply from increasing their overall volume at beneficial intensities, then secondly (distant) from optimizing their intensity mix. Do what keeps you motivated and enjoying training and improving. If that's a mix, then mix it up.
Thank you for your reply. Would you do me the courtesy of a followup based on my response here please? 🙂
No denying the points you raise here as stated. I do not look at my training plan as prescriptive by any stretch, as in do X of these, 5x/week at 8:30 etc etc.
As you say for a newbie, almost any training mix, with sufficient volume will result in notable improvements. Again, no debate.
However I would like to engage you on one particular point.
That being what is best for a newbie...........one who has developed a good idea of what events she will be targeting and participating and knows success depends on long duration aerobic ability.
Training time is limited as we all know. Then again, the mix of training also affects recovery and overall volume.
Would you replace 120 minutes of L3 or 60 minutes of solid L4 work - with a typical 5x5 vo2max workout?
Not only this, but keeping in mind the likely extra recovery will probably reduce overall CTL/volume.
Adding more detail: CTL just hitting 70 now (and climbing) on 10 hours/week of training. TSB is way negative, -30 to -45 as expected in a build phase.
Again this is for a newbie who has specific goals, those being excellent results in crits and road races. Remember that womens racing starts at cat 4 and that unlike men's 5, it isn't a place strictly for new racers as there are apparently many veteran women racers who stay in cat 4 for a long time, maybe indefinetly, and are quite fit.
More and more I am enjoying my L3/L4/SST training and I would not say my training mix is anything special but it seems to be doing the job and have seen my FT increase by 50%+ in 3 months. Not to mention losing a whole lot of kilograms :-)
Not at all saying I know more, because I do not. What I am asking is if you were the coach, what would you suggest?
Piotr said:Well, it would seem that you have a sprinter's power profile. Although you can expect to see improvement in your FTP, you'll probably see improvement in your 5m/1m/5sec powers as well. In fact, your anaerobic powers are likely to improve more readily since this is where your talents lie.
I've been training with power for the last 3 seasons (I have a total of 10 intermittent years of experience), and my FTP lies 5 rows below my 5 min power, which is my highest. When I train for threshold improvements, my 5 min maximal power seems to rise a notch as well (it's still mostly an aerobic effort afterall).
Here's a Wattage discussion (free membership required) about the benefits of extending time at certain wattage rather than raising power for a certain time interval for FTP improvement. Someone mentions that extending time seems to work better for "explosive" riders (sprinters), which has been my experience, rather than the latter method. Have a read.
Piotr, I will be getting on the list to reference the thread you suggested.
Interesting observation for me is that since I have greatly upped the overall volume of training, I have seen my sprint numbers decrease even though I train them 1x/week.
Should also say I have been losing weight the entire time and maybe some muscle perhaps but my weight loss has been at a sensible pace, I get plenty of protein, and I do not starve myself.
Or maybe neuromuscular power suffers when TSB is quite low and I am regularly in the -30 to -45 range presently. Or it could be that I am not much of a fast twitch cyclist and am just another all rounder who needs to train up their 5/60 minute capability.
Like you say I expect 5 min power to increase as I continue to do L4 work. THis is one reason I am also tempted to not do any targeted L5 sessions.
The idea of extending duration of L4's more so than increasing wattage is appealing. The 1 x 60 trainer workouts I have started to do are kinda my way of increasing duration without necessarily bumping up the wattage so much. Still, I know it is L4 work.
Also might you comment on my question to frenchyge as well? The one concerning :
Would you replace 120 minutes of L3 or 60 minutes of solid L4 work - with a typical 5x5 vo2max workout given my present circumstances/goals?
