frozen gooseneck

Things to try:

Upend the frame and pour some penetrating oil into the steerer tube. Let it
sit upside down until the oil starts dribbling out the other end and then
try loosening again.

Same treatment but with ammonia, which will gradually dissolve aluminium but
doesn't affect steel.

Pack the stem in dry ice. The coefficient of thermal expansion of aluminium
is a lot higher than steel, so as the stem cools it will shrink more than
the steerer tube.

"Peter" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Hi
I'm pretty sure there was a thread about this issue a few months back
but I can't find it.

The gooseneck on my bike is stuck tight in the forks and I'm wondering
whether there is some trick I can use to loosen it. I

'm pretty sure it must be some sort of corrosion issue. I haven't moved
it for years.

Thanks
Peter

Peter said:

The gooseneck on my bike is stuck tight in the forks and I'm wondering
whether there is some trick I can use to loosen it. I

Long time since I've heard that term used!

Peter said:

'm pretty sure it must be some sort of corrosion issue. I haven't moved
it for years.

The tip was ammonia for steel/aluminium corrosion.

Sometines a WD40 flood will work first.

Not sure how long you need to leave the part in ammonia/keep applying it.

Routine maintenance should include removing everything. It is certainly
easier and cheaper in the long term .

cfsmtb said:

Peter said:

The gooseneck on my bike is stuck tight in the forks and I'm wondering
whether there is some trick I can use to loosen it. I

Long time since I've heard that term used!

You've stumped me... which term?

P

NickP said:

Things to try:

Upend the frame and pour some penetrating oil into the steerer tube. Let it
sit upside down until the oil starts dribbling out the other end and then
try loosening again.

Same treatment but with ammonia, which will gradually dissolve aluminium but
doesn't affect steel.

Pack the stem in dry ice. The coefficient of thermal expansion of aluminium
is a lot higher than steel, so as the stem cools it will shrink more than
the steerer tube.

Thanks for that. I'll give the ammonia a go and let you know how it
turns out.

P

"Peter" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

NickP said:

Things to try:

Upend the frame and pour some penetrating oil into the steerer tube. Let it
sit upside down until the oil starts dribbling out the other end and then
try loosening again.

Same treatment but with ammonia, which will gradually dissolve aluminium but
doesn't affect steel.

Pack the stem in dry ice. The coefficient of thermal expansion of aluminium
is a lot higher than steel, so as the stem cools it will shrink more than
the steerer tube.

Thanks for that. I'll give the ammonia a go and let you know how it
turns out.

I haven't tried this, but I expect you can drift it out from below with a piece of
stout 1/2 inch dowel.

I have loosened a stem which was apparently frozen in a steerer tube with a
hammer blow to the bolt that screws into that strange iron nut (with the angled
face). I suspect it was the nut that was stuck, not the stem.

I've also used WD40. Maybe that worked because what had been grease
turned into something else after seasons of hot, cold, wet, dry, etc.

I've also broken a fork in one attempt... ...long time ago, probably a suspect fork. :-(.

Older or cheaper stems has a different kind of strange nut that was more of a
frustrated cone. The cone forced the (split) end of the stem to open. Sounds
like bad design. Haven't seen one of those since I went to school.

T.

Peter said:

You've stumped me... which term?

Gooseneck

Parbs

"Peter" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

cfsmtb said:

Peter said:

The gooseneck on my bike is stuck tight in the forks and I'm wondering
whether there is some trick I can use to loosen it. I

Long time since I've heard that term used!

You've stumped me... which term?

I'm guessing "gooseneck". All the cool kids are saying "stem".

Tomasso said:

"Peter" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:[email hidden]...

I haven't tried this, but I expect you can drift it out from below with a piece of
stout 1/2 inch dowel.

I have loosened a stem which was apparently frozen in a steerer tube with a
hammer blow to the bolt that screws into that strange iron nut (with the angled
face). I suspect it was the nut that was stuck, not the stem.

This is far more common, I technique I've found useful for *really*
stuck stem wedges is:

1) remove the bolt from the stem and lift the stem out
2) place the bolt through the cotter pin hole of an old cottered crank
3) screw the bolt back into the wedge
4) A couple of firm (not hard!) taps with a hammer will now free the
wedge

I've never had this fail.

Quoted message said:

I've also used WD40. Maybe that worked because what had been grease
turned into something else after seasons of hot, cold, wet, dry, etc.

I've also broken a fork in one attempt... ...long time ago, probably a suspect fork. :-(.

Older or cheaper stems has a different kind of strange nut that was more of a
frustrated cone. The cone forced the (split) end of the stem to open. Sounds
like bad design. Haven't seen one of those since I went to school.

This is an older design and OK so long as you don't over-tighten the
wedge, which results in a bulge in the steerer and ruins the forks. You
can do the same damage with a newer wedge design but it requires much
more torque.

If you're really stuck and handy with an oxy torch you can aparently
melt a stuck stem/post out as the alloy melts below a temperature that
will weaken the steel (according to a mech. I trust from
rec.bicycles.tech anyway). I haven't tried this myself though...

Cheers

Joel
--
Human Powered Cycles | High quality servicing and repairs
[email hidden] | Affordable second hand bikes
(03) 9029 6504 | Bicycle reuse centre
www.humanpowered.com.au | Mechanical and on-road training and instruction

Resound said:

"Peter" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

cfsmtb said:

Peter Wrote:
>
> The gooseneck on my bike is stuck tight in the forks and I'm wondering
> whether there is some trick I can use to loosen it. I
>

Long time since I've heard that term used!

You've stumped me... which term?

I'm guessing "gooseneck". All the cool kids are saying "stem".

I heard someone refering to it as a gooseneck on the wireless just the
other day.

Have a bonza day

P

Peter said:

cfsmtb said:

Peter Wrote:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

The gooseneck on my bike is stuck tight in the forks and I'm
wondering whether there is some trick I can use to loosen it. I

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Long time since I've heard that term used!

Quoted message said:

You've stumped me... which term?

Let me take a wild guess. Gooseneck! Yes, we called them that when we were
kids, but city kids, who have probably never seen a goose, now call them
stems. Another bit of visual poetry lost.

Theo

Theo Bekkers said:

Peter said:

cfsmtb said:

Peter Wrote:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

> The gooseneck on my bike is stuck tight in the forks and I'm
> wondering whether there is some trick I can use to loosen it. I

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Long time since I've heard that term used!

Quoted message said:

You've stumped me... which term?

Let me take a wild guess. Gooseneck! Yes, we called them that when we were
kids, but city kids, who have probably never seen a goose, now call them
stems. Another bit of visual poetry lost.

Theo

A bit like "hands" on a clock.

Dorfus

quote='Theo Bekkers'Peter said:

cfsmtb said:

Peter Wrote:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

The gooseneck on my bike is stuck tight in the forks and I'm
wondering whether there is some trick I can use to loosen it. I

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Long time since I've heard that term used!

Quoted message said:

You've stumped me... which term?

Let me take a wild guess. Gooseneck! Yes, we called them that when we were
kids, but city kids, who have probably never seen a goose, now call them
stems. Another bit of visual poetry lost.

Theo[/QUOTE]
bike gooseneck aka quill stem, as opposed to dedicated stem on steerer

often a little bit of shock treatment from a rubber mallet could loosen them..I know one "wrench" with a trusty heavy well worn copper mallet...method, undo the quill nut, drizzle some penetrene or similar down the innards, make a cup of tea, read the paper, then belt the begeezes out of it from below......always does the trick... either loosens it or proves its stuffed for good and time to upgrade the treadly..

rooman said:

Theo Bekkers said:

Peter said:

cfsmtb wrote:
> Peter Wrote:

Quoted message said:

>> The gooseneck on my bike is stuck tight in the forks and I'm
>> wondering whether there is some trick I can use to loosen it. I

Quoted message said:

> Long time since I've heard that term used!

Quoted message said:

You've stumped me... which term?

Let me take a wild guess. Gooseneck! Yes, we called them that when we
were
kids, but city kids, who have probably never seen a goose, now call
them
stems. Another bit of visual poetry lost.

Theo

bike gooseneck aka quill stem, as opposed to dedicated stem on steerer

often a little bit of shock treatment from a rubber mallet could loosen
them..I know one "wrench" with a trusty heavy well worn copper
mallet...method, undo the quill nut, drizzle some penetrene or similar
down the innards, make a cup of tea, read the paper, then belt the
begeezes out of it from below......always does the trick... either
loosens it or proves its stuffed for good and time to upgrade the
treadly..

Gooseneck seizure could mean a serious concealed problem.

About 3 weeks ago while out on the beginning of a little 50k ride,
I surged of from a set of lights and hadn't gone 10 metres
out of the sadle and found myself
dumped on the roadway, in heavy traffic, but luckily in a cycle lane
right outside the ABC studios in Canberra on Northbourne Ave.

I had made the very fast realization as I lost control
on the way to the ground that the handlebars had become separated from
the fork stem.

I was on a 19 year old steel frame bike I won in a race when I used to
be fast.

Luckily I didn't break a bone and picked myself up quickly. The front
wheel fell right out
of the frame, and it became immediately obvious the steel tube from the
forks has fatigued
in a neat circle where the headstock expander grips the internal surface
of the fork stem tube.
The one I had put in all those years ago was a Cinnelli, with an
expanding end like
a Locksin expanding builder's masonary bolt.
The expansion occurred just where the thread starts for the bearing
retension, at the weakest
place. The headstock was up a bit to high as well; only 10mm above where
I had it for racing,
but 10mm is something to worry about.

I was able to buy a new set of steel forks which look nice and a new
headstock.
Getting harder to find though.
The new stock has an expanding gripper which has diagonally
cut sliding surfaces so the stress caused by the
expansion force is spread over 30mm not just a circle of little
distance.

Nowdays all the bikes have larger dia tubes, and are probably less
likely to break.

But I was lucky again because the steering didn't fail while at speed
coming down some of the steep hills I like climbing, or across a timber
planked
bridge in my route I take at least once a week.

So one should always stand in front of the bike and
grip the front wheel between your legs each week and give the handlebars
a good turn against the wheel
and to see there isn't any strange play when none should be present.
Those with steel frames do well to undo the head bearing and pull the
stem out of the forks
now and then and have a look at condition.
Mine managed to crack and break free without any symptoms, not even any
creaking
sound of cracked metal.

I raced for 6 years often until 1992, then gave uo riding entirely until
one year ago, when I reckoned the bike would either stuff my knees or
improve them
after an operation I had on them 3 years ago.
The knees don't mind the bike, and in 12 months I lost 20Kg of fat and
made 3Kg of muscle,
and am nearly as quick as i was in '92, when I was aged 45.

I kept all the bikes I used then and they are all a bit old fashioned
compared to now,
but I pass far more ppl than ppl passing me, so its the legs and heart
and health that matter,
not the carbon fibre.

I did have one bike with a single 72" gear as a spare if the one which
broke was out of order,
so I cleaned the dust off and fitted new tyres, Vittoria Randoneur are
now my favourites
and found that hills seem a bit steeper, and headwinds a bit more blowy
after the last 15 years,
so I gave in to age and changed the chain ring from 48 to 44.

I will have to find time to mend the broken bike.

The other thing I found was rim fatigue problems.
I had old Mavic rims, maybe I'd done 20,000km but not sure. I did
maybe 6,000 since this time last year.
After this recent fatigue failure and fall I examined them very closely.
Sure enough, the rear had four cracks beginning to start, and front had
one,
where a spoke was beginning to tear the inside of the rim away from the
rest.
They still appeard to stay trued, even with the cracks.

So I had to find a pair of new wheels.
No more 36 spoke rims were easily available.
I have had to conceed to using 32 spokes in a wheel.
So I will be doing a major re-build, and will switch to index gearing in
the process
because everyone tells me I haven't lived until I don't have to reach
down
to the down tube levers to change gear.
I bought a pranged bike run over a little bit by a car and it has a good
condition set of
Shimano Sora or whatever it is. As long as it works it'll be fine
for my needs; I am OK at getting things to work and minimal costs.
I ain't on a fashion parade, and don't need to win points
for having the best cycle in the town.

So fatigue problems in metals are always going to try to sneak up on
you.

Once in 1988, while out with a friend on a ride around the hills at
Whale Beach
in Sydney, one of the pedals of my friend's bike decided to break free
from the
aluminium crank. This was when he was behind me and doing about 30k.
I heard this "Ahhh" from behind, and looked around to find him and bike
completely missing.
Had the angels taken him early? No, when the crank broke, he'd stabbed
the ground
with a foot as he came out of the saddle
when attempting to sprint before a little hill, and in the process
sprung himself sideways right off the road, onto a grassy verge, and
down a steep embankment
out of sight, and luckily it was carpeted in thick kiyoya grass.
I went back for him, and there he was, 15 metres down there, but not a
single scratch, and unhurt.
He's only 60Kg, but still mananged to break a crank.
We called a taxi for him.....

I was 82Kg then, and carefully examined my Stronglight Crankset I had.
Sure enough one crank had a very fine crack beginning to start
at one hole from a pedal thread.
Into the bin the whole lot went!

I replaced it with Shimano 600, the beefiest gear i thought I could
find;
definitely the stiffest I thought.
No problems in the last year and I dunno how far I have been.

I have a Zeus crankset which I did try back in '88 but I thought they
were too springy
and bendy, but maybe now I could live with them because I ain't racing,
and ride for pleasure, health, and the surprise I give to riders of
25 whom I often pass so quickly.
( Ha, not always though, and sometimes they take revenge, and
swing past me, and their nose is in the air, and they wouldn't
dream of saying g'day...)

Anyway, the main point I make is that metal fatigue hasn't stopped
happening just because its 2007 and we have gone all modern and
wonderful.

Patrick Turner.

Quoted message said:

--
rooman

rooman said:

drizzle some penetrene

Dang, I keep forgetting the name of that stuff.
What sort of place do you get yours from?

Learnt about that after tearing frozen metal hinges from steel plate.
Actually, it tore a piece out of the plate. Then someone said "so you
don't know about "penetrene"

Terryc said:

rooman said:

drizzle some penetrene

Dang, I keep forgetting the name of that stuff.
What sort of place do you get yours from?

Learnt about that after tearing frozen metal hinges from steel plate.
Actually, it tore a piece out of the plate. Then someone said "so you
don't know about "penetrene"

Diesel has about the same or better penetrability (?) as penetrene if
you don't have the real stuff. Probably the same thing actually.

Dorfus

quote='Terryc'rooman said:

drizzle some penetrene

Dang, I keep forgetting the name of that stuff.
What sort of place do you get yours from?

Learnt about that after tearing frozen metal hinges from steel plate.
Actually, it tore a piece out of the plate. Then someone said "so you
don't know about "penetrene"[/QUOTE]
this stuff- as opposed to the vet linament for horses ( prbably the same LOL)
chemz.co.nzMultiPenetrene.htmOpen ↗

try your local Autobarn or Auto accessories shops around Oz...

"rooman" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Terryc said:

rooman said:

drizzle some penetrene

Dang, I keep forgetting the name of that stuff.
What sort of place do you get yours from?

Learnt about that after tearing frozen metal hinges from steel plate.
Actually, it tore a piece out of the plate. Then someone said "so you
don't know about "penetrene"

this stuff- as opposed to the vet linament for horses ( prbably the
same LOL)
http://www.chemz.co.nz/MultiPenetrene.htm

try your local Autobarn or Auto accessories shops around Oz...

If you mean DMSO, it's the same stuff. However, WD40/etc should never be
used for inflamed joints or sprains. The automative products contain DMSO,
but they contain all kinds of other [censored] your liver and kidney (and maybe brain)
would react badly to...

T.

Dorfus Dippintush said:

Diesel has about the same or better penetrability (?) as penetrene if
you don't have the real stuff. Probably the same thing actually.

I hope not. I tried that at one stage, when I scord a 20L drum once.
Wasn't that great.

Am told that you can blow torch something with penetrene to assist.

I've also tried/used "heating oil" which is a light oil.

None of these seem to have the rust breaking capacity that I am told
penetrene has.