Front vs Rear Spoke Counts

Tad Marko said:

Howdy!

I have a couple of 32 hole Campy Chorus front hubs that I got recently
at a very good price. I want to get some rear hubs so I can make a
couple of sets of wheels. Thinking about comments I've read here
considering the relative strengths of front and rear wheels, I'm
considering getting at least one of the rear hubs in 36 hole. I am sure
Jobst would approve of this. Well, the rear wheel being 36 spokes part
anyway. I'm 165 pounds and my other wheel sets are 32 spoke front and
back and I have little trouble with them. Maybe 32 is enough even for
the occasional pothole at my weight?

It's plenty for 165. Heck, my city bike which hauls home my lanky 180#
and 30# of groceries on the rear rack quite often, does just fine with
32. My roadie also has 32 and never goes out of true. Seems to me that
with modern rims and spokes, you don't need 36 for general use. Build
quality is key, as it is with all wheels.

That said, why not just use 36 and have a really strong wheel, in case
you meet the mother of all potholes? The penalty is miniscule.

landotter said:

Tad Marko said:

Howdy!

I have a couple of 32 hole Campy Chorus front hubs that I got recently
at a very good price. I want to get some rear hubs so I can make a
couple of sets of wheels. Thinking about comments I've read here
considering the relative strengths of front and rear wheels, I'm
considering getting at least one of the rear hubs in 36 hole. I am sure
Jobst would approve of this. Well, the rear wheel being 36 spokes part
anyway. I'm 165 pounds and my other wheel sets are 32 spoke front and
back and I have little trouble with them. Maybe 32 is enough even for
the occasional pothole at my weight?

It's plenty for 165. Heck, my city bike which hauls home my lanky 180#
and 30# of groceries on the rear rack quite often, does just fine with
32. My roadie also has 32 and never goes out of true. Seems to me that
with modern rims and spokes, you don't need 36 for general use. Build
quality is key, as it is with all wheels.

That said, why not just use 36 and have a really strong wheel, in case
you meet the mother of all potholes? The penalty is miniscule.

spoke count won't help the mother of all potholes. rims deform somewhat
/after/ spokes have gone slack. from that point on, the only thing
stopping the rim from plastic deformation is the rim itself.

Tad Marko said:

Howdy!

I have a couple of 32 hole Campy Chorus front hubs that I got recently
at a very good price. I want to get some rear hubs so I can make a
couple of sets of wheels. Thinking about comments I've read here
considering the relative strengths of front and rear wheels, I'm
considering getting at least one of the rear hubs in 36 hole. I am sure
Jobst would approve of this. Well, the rear wheel being 36 spokes part
anyway. I'm 165 pounds and my other wheel sets are 32 spoke front and
back and I have little trouble with them. Maybe 32 is enough even for
the occasional pothole at my weight?

I'm just curious if anyone has any coments, good or bad, about building
up the two sets of wheels like this:

1) front 32 2x, rear 32 2x NDS, 3x DS - no real reason, just to try
something different that is not too crazy.

2) front 32 2x, rear 36 3x.

And I meant front 32 3x, rear 36 3x, but I guess what I said first is
another possibility.

Quoted message said:

Both sets will be built up with 14/15 gauge double-butted spokes.

Thanks for any constructive comments,
Tad

Tad Marko said:

Howdy!

I have a couple of 32 hole Campy Chorus front hubs that I got recently
at a very good price. I want to get some rear hubs so I can make a
couple of sets of wheels. Thinking about comments I've read here
considering the relative strengths of front and rear wheels, I'm
considering getting at least one of the rear hubs in 36 hole. I am sure
Jobst would approve of this. Well, the rear wheel being 36 spokes part
anyway. I'm 165 pounds and my other wheel sets are 32 spoke front and
back and I have little trouble with them. Maybe 32 is enough even for
the occasional pothole at my weight?

I'm just curious if anyone has any coments, good or bad, about building
up the two sets of wheels like this:

1) front 32 2x, rear 32 2x NDS, 3x DS - no real reason, just to try
something different that is not too crazy.

2) front 32 2x, rear 36 3x.

Both sets will be built up with 14/15 gauge double-butted spokes.

Thanks for any constructive comments,
Tad

Hi,

At your weight, and if the wheels are well-built, any of the above
alternatives (plus the one in your follow-up post) would work fine.

As others have pointed out, potholes are capable of destroying any wheel
if the tyre gets pinched, regardless of spoke count.

I would maybe suggest a 36h back wheel if you were a heavier rider or
were doing at least light touring.

Otherwise I think 32h front and back is more than enough for your
weight. Advantage of having same spoke count on both wheels is that you
only have to have one extra rim in your closet, in case you destroy one.

How I built my current set-up:

Me - 73 kg (160 lbs) riding recreationally, ex- club racer.

Wheels - 2 pair

- one pair with Mavic MA3 and Campag Veloce, DT straight-gauge spokes.
23mm section tyres. My bad weather wheels, cheap but work fine despite
others' experiences with the designwise badly-socketed MA3 rim. Laced
32h 3x everywhere.

- one pair Mavic Open Pro with Campag Record, DT Aero Speed spokes, both
32h, laced 2x front (290 mm), 3x derailleur side (293), 1x
non-derailleur side (284), done just for the fun of it, I see no real
advantage to these lacings. 20mm section tyres. My good weather wheels.
Work beautifully though I occasionally trash a back rim due to numerous
potholes but that's what I get for using 20mm tyres. Has nothing to do
with spoke count. With an extra rim on hand, I can rebuild a wheel
within an hour.

All my wheels are older technology but spare parts are very easy to get,
are cheap, wheels are very easy to maintain, and very durable.

/Robert
Gothenburg Sweden

Tad Marko said:

Tad Marko said:

Howdy!

I have a couple of 32 hole Campy Chorus front hubs that I got recently
at a very good price. I want to get some rear hubs so I can make a
couple of sets of wheels. Thinking about comments I've read here
considering the relative strengths of front and rear wheels, I'm
considering getting at least one of the rear hubs in 36 hole. I am sure
Jobst would approve of this. Well, the rear wheel being 36 spokes part
anyway. I'm 165 pounds and my other wheel sets are 32 spoke front and
back and I have little trouble with them. Maybe 32 is enough even for
the occasional pothole at my weight?

I'm just curious if anyone has any coments, good or bad, about building
up the two sets of wheels like this:

1) front 32 2x, rear 32 2x NDS, 3x DS - no real reason, just to try
something different that is not too crazy.

2) front 32 2x, rear 36 3x.

And I meant front 32 3x, rear 36 3x, but I guess what I said first is
another possibility.

Quoted message said:

Both sets will be built up with 14/15 gauge double-butted spokes.

Thanks for any constructive comments,
Tad

I ride front 32 3x, rear 36 3x myself and I weigh only about 175. May
seem like overkill but I never popped a spoke on a ride, but have seen
others do so many a time. It just makes so much more sense that the
rear should have more spokes than the front. Both wheels hit potholes,
but there is more weight on the rear and has all that torque from
driving the bike.

Tad Marko said:

Howdy!

I have a couple of 32 hole Campy Chorus front hubs that I got recently
at a very good price. I want to get some rear hubs so I can make a
couple of sets of wheels. Thinking about comments I've read here
considering the relative strengths of front and rear wheels, I'm
considering getting at least one of the rear hubs in 36 hole. I am sure
Jobst would approve of this. Well, the rear wheel being 36 spokes part
anyway. I'm 165 pounds and my other wheel sets are 32 spoke front and
back and I have little trouble with them. Maybe 32 is enough even for
the occasional pothole at my weight?

I'm just curious if anyone has any coments, good or bad, about building
up the two sets of wheels like this:

1) front 32 2x, rear 32 2x NDS, 3x DS - no real reason, just to try
something different that is not too crazy.

2) front 32 2x, rear 36 3x.

Both sets will be built up with 14/15 gauge double-butted spokes.

Thanks for any constructive comments,
Tad

You will gain not a thing with anything less than 3 cross lacing...2
cross with 32 doesn't make sense to me...Even at 165 pounds, all other
things being equal, 36h wheels, at 28 grams heavier for the spokes,
make for a stronger wheel. No real reason to NOT have 36h....

Qui si parla Campagnolo said:

Tad Marko said:

Howdy!

I have a couple of 32 hole Campy Chorus front hubs that I got recently
at a very good price. I want to get some rear hubs so I can make a
couple of sets of wheels. Thinking about comments I've read here
considering the relative strengths of front and rear wheels, I'm
considering getting at least one of the rear hubs in 36 hole. I am sure
Jobst would approve of this. Well, the rear wheel being 36 spokes part
anyway. I'm 165 pounds and my other wheel sets are 32 spoke front and
back and I have little trouble with them. Maybe 32 is enough even for
the occasional pothole at my weight?

I'm just curious if anyone has any coments, good or bad, about building
up the two sets of wheels like this:

1) front 32 2x, rear 32 2x NDS, 3x DS - no real reason, just to try
something different that is not too crazy.

2) front 32 2x, rear 36 3x.

Both sets will be built up with 14/15 gauge double-butted spokes.

Thanks for any constructive comments,
Tad

You will gain not a thing with anything less than 3 cross lacing...2
cross with 32 doesn't make sense to me...Even at 165 pounds, all other
things being equal, 36h wheels, at 28 grams heavier for the spokes,
make for a stronger wheel. No real reason to NOT have 36h....

Unless you already have (and paid for) 32 hole hubs. If you don't mind
the expense (if there is any) to swapping a 36 hub, go for it if you
want. But as many others have said 32 should be more than enough for
165lbs. I rode for years and years on 32 spoke Campagnolo C-Record
hubs, with Campagnolo Record Strada tubular rims and DT double-butted
spokes, and I haven't been under 200 lbs since jr high. Never broke a
spoke on those wheels riding on every type of bad surface around and
stomping up and down steep climbs, etc.

Joseph

Robert wrote:
[snip]

Quoted message said:

All my wheels are older technology but spare parts are very easy to get,
are cheap, wheels are very easy to maintain, and very durable.

/Robert
Gothenburg Sweden

With the cobbles and tram tracks in Göteborg, serviceable wheels are a
must! *g*

Is Cafe Mauritz still hanging in there? Man, I could go for one of
their coffees right now!

landotter said:

Robert wrote:
[snip]

Quoted message said:

All my wheels are older technology but spare parts are very easy to get,
are cheap, wheels are very easy to maintain, and very durable.

/Robert
Gothenburg Sweden

With the cobbles and tram tracks in Göteborg, serviceable wheels are a
must! *g*

Is Cafe Mauritz still hanging in there? Man, I could go for one of
their coffees right now!

Hmm . . . you know all about the trams and the roads here. Nice place
though - I've lived here for 15 years now. But I've learned to do most
of my training around points south of here (Kungsbacka, Fjärås, etc. for
those who've been here) and you avoid most of the [censored] roads that way.

But the roads aren't really that bad, I'm just a careless rider ;-)

Café Mauritz is still here, an institution you could say. Coffee still
good. But next time you're here, go to the area known as Haga, and try
the coffee bar called "Nöller". That's my favourite at the moment, and
the owner (Marc) doesn't mind you walking in with cleated shoes.

Cheers, Robert

Robert said:

landotter said:

Robert wrote:
[snip]

Quoted message said:

All my wheels are older technology but spare parts are very easy to get,
are cheap, wheels are very easy to maintain, and very durable.

/Robert
Gothenburg Sweden

With the cobbles and tram tracks in Göteborg, serviceable wheels are a
must! *g*

Is Cafe Mauritz still hanging in there? Man, I could go for one of
their coffees right now!

Hmm . . . you know all about the trams and the roads here. Nice place
though - I've lived here for 15 years now. But I've learned to do most
of my training around points south of here (Kungsbacka, Fjärås, etc. for
those who've been here) and you avoid most of the [censored] roads that way.

But the roads aren't really that bad, I'm just a careless rider ;-)

Café Mauritz is still here, an institution you could say. Coffee still
good. But next time you're here, go to the area known as Haga, and try
the coffee bar called "Nöller". That's my favourite at the moment, and
the owner (Marc) doesn't mind you walking in with cleated shoes.

I believe I had a really great cup there a couple years ago, if it's
the Haga cafe I'm thinking about. Too bad the wonderful old bike shop
in Haga closed down. It was my favorite bike place on the planet. You
could bring in a bike with wooden rims, and the owner wouldn't bat an
eye.

On 24 Jul 2006 04:32:05 -0700, "Chris Nelson" <[email hidden]>

Quoted message said:

I ride front 32 3x, rear 36 3x myself and I weigh only about 175. May
seem like overkill but I never popped a spoke on a ride, but have seen
others do so many a time. It just makes so much more sense that the
rear should have more spokes than the front. Both wheels hit potholes,
but there is more weight on the rear and has all that torque from
driving the bike.

I use 36/40 for the same reasons. That, and that hub dynamos are an awful
lot easier to find in 36h.

Jasper