Front suspension - when to use and when to lock out

Dundonald said:

It's not my intention to strike a debate that has no doubt been
flogged to death about rigid vs hardtail. I do want to understand how
to use my front shock properly though.

Please help with advice / pointers.

I lock mine out on off-road climbs and when on smooth surfaces such as
roads. Everywhere else I leave the lock out off.

Tony

Dundonald said:

I've had a rigid bike for a long time and I'm recently testing out a
bike with front shocks for the first time. I've asked around, done a
bit of googling, to try understand when best to use the front shocks
and when to lock them out. I might add that my I typically ride on
off road tracks such as the TPT. The track I take to work is probably
80% off road track and 20% tarmac. Decent ascents and descents both
ways of the journey. I noticed on the first run that with the front
shock on, I'm bouncing as I'm putting the power down on a climb, so
seemed to lose power, is that right?

That's right.

Quoted message said:

So as I say I did a bit of research and what I understand so far is to
lock out before hitting a climb and unlock on flat and descent. Is
this right?

In most cases, yes, that should be about the size of it.

Quoted message said:

It just seems a bit of a pain locking and unlocking, especially if I'm
on a track that I don't know, so possibly being surprised by a climb
around a bend.

That's the nature of the beast. What it boils down to is you lock it
when that helps and you unlock it when that helps. If all the switching
between lock and out is proving unhelpful to a greater degree than the
suspension effect is helpful or the pogoing effect is unhelpful then
decide which mode suits you best overall, and stick with it. I'd be
inclined to leave it free unless I knew I had a big climb to do, but YMMV.

Also, bear in mind that different styles will pogo the front forks more
or less than others. If you can stay sat down and spinning a low gear
you'll bounce around a lot less than if you're standing on big gears.

Pete.
--
Peter Clinch Medical Physics IT Officer
Tel 44 1382 660111 ext. 33637 Univ. of Dundee, Ninewells Hospital
Fax 44 1382 640177 Dundee DD1 9SY Scotland UK
net [email hidden] http://www.dundee.ac.uk/~pjclinch/

Quoted message said:

So as I say I did a bit of research and what I understand so far is to
lock out before hitting a climb and unlock on flat and descent. Is
this right?

Pretty much. As I understand it, the suspension is there to give better
control, traction and more efficiency over rough ground. Lock it out when
you're not getting those benefits. Up hills, on tarmac and smooth sections
are the most likely places you'll want to do that.

There is a secondary benefit to suspension which is more comfort. Feel
free to reap the disbenefits of an unlocked fork if the extra comfort
outweighs them.

Some people have comfort as the primary benefit. This kinda makes sense
for trundlies, and just about excuses the [censored]-poor suspension forks on
many hybrids.

Quoted message said:

It just seems a bit of a pain locking and unlocking, especially if I'm
on a track that I don't know, so possibly being surprised by a climb
around a bend.

You can get thingies which enable you to lock and unlock from the
handlebars. Anyone know if you can retro fit them?

Dundonald said the following on 09/08/2007 10:59:

Quoted message said:

I've had a rigid bike for a long time and I'm recently testing out a
bike with front shocks for the first time. I've asked around, done a
bit of googling, to try understand when best to use the front shocks
and when to lock them out. I might add that my I typically ride on
off road tracks such as the TPT. The track I take to work is probably
80% off road track and 20% tarmac. Decent ascents and descents both
ways of the journey. I noticed on the first run that with the front
shock on, I'm bouncing as I'm putting the power down on a climb, so
seemed to lose power, is that right?

Yup. Either lock-out on climbing or turn the pedals instead of pushing
them, if you see what I mean

Quoted message said:

So as I say I did a bit of research and what I understand so far is to
lock out before hitting a climb and unlock on flat and descent. Is
this right?

Pretty much. I often have them locked on the flat as well, but that
depends on the terrain. Just because I can have bouncy forks doesn't
mean I have to :-)

Quoted message said:

It just seems a bit of a pain locking and unlocking

Nah - just press the lever about 1/2" to the left of your shifters :-)
You won't even need to move your hand off the grip.

Quoted message said:

I rode in to work this morning and in the end just locked the front
shock out the whole way, so I could have just rode my rigid bike in to
work.

Just because you have suspension doesn't mean it has to be used. I've
no idea what the TPT is, so don't know what sort of off-roading that is,
but generally I work on the basis of keeping it locked out

Quoted message said:

It's not my intention to strike a debate that has no doubt been
flogged to death about rigid vs hardtail. I do want to understand how
to use my front shock properly though.

Debate? This isn't alt.mountain-bike :-)

--
Paul Boyd
http://www.paul-boyd.co.uk/

Mark said the following on 09/08/2007 11:36:

Quoted message said:

You can get thingies which enable you to lock and unlock from the
handlebars. Anyone know if you can retro fit them?

You certainly can on many (all?) Rockshox forks. I've done just that on
the Tora, then transferred selected bits over to convert my current
Revelations to remote lockout. The hardest part is getting hold of the
parts. The lever itself is easy to find, but you also need either a
complete remote MCA assembly (expensive) or a return spring (cheap)
along with the top cap to mount the cable.

It's a bit of a gimmick really because the shock-mounted lever isn't
exactly miles away, but it is nice to just stretch your thumb across and
have instant and adjustable lockout.

--
Paul Boyd
http://www.paul-boyd.co.uk/

"Dundonald" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

I've had a rigid bike for a long time and I'm recently testing out a
bike with front shocks for the first time. I've asked around, done a
bit of googling, to try understand when best to use the front shocks
and when to lock them out. I might add that my I typically ride on
off road tracks such as the TPT. The track I take to work is probably
80% off road track and 20% tarmac. Decent ascents and descents both
ways of the journey. I noticed on the first run that with the front
shock on, I'm bouncing as I'm putting the power down on a climb, so
seemed to lose power, is that right?

So as I say I did a bit of research and what I understand so far is to
lock out before hitting a climb and unlock on flat and descent. Is
this right?

It just seems a bit of a pain locking and unlocking, especially if I'm
on a track that I don't know, so possibly being surprised by a climb
around a bend.

I rode in to work this morning and in the end just locked the front
shock out the whole way, so I could have just rode my rigid bike in to
work.

It's not my intention to strike a debate that has no doubt been
flogged to death about rigid vs hardtail. I do want to understand how
to use my front shock properly though.

Please help with advice / pointers.

IMO it's a bit of a gimmick. I reckon it's only worth locking out if you're
going on the road for a while, unless it's a handlebar mounted lockout. Most
people find that they end up very rarely using them.

What sort of forks are they by the way? It's much more worthwhile to get
them sprung and damped correctly.

I half said the following on 09/08/2007 12:41:

Quoted message said:

Just because you have suspension doesn't mean it has to be used. I've
no idea what the TPT is, so don't know what sort of off-roading that is,
but generally I work on the basis of keeping it locked out

....a lot of the time and unlock it only when I need to.

Dunno what happened to that last bit :-)

--
Paul Boyd
http://www.paul-boyd.co.uk/

Doki said:

"Dundonald" <[email hidden]> wrote in message

news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

I've had a rigid bike for a long time and I'm recently testing out a
bike with front shocks for the first time. I've asked around, done a
bit of googling, to try understand when best to use the front shocks
and when to lock them out. I might add that my I typically ride on
off road tracks such as the TPT. The track I take to work is probably
80% off road track and 20% tarmac. Decent ascents and descents both
ways of the journey. I noticed on the first run that with the front
shock on, I'm bouncing as I'm putting the power down on a climb, so
seemed to lose power, is that right?

Quoted message said:

So as I say I did a bit of research and what I understand so far is to
lock out before hitting a climb and unlock on flat and descent. Is
this right?

Quoted message said:

It just seems a bit of a pain locking and unlocking, especially if I'm
on a track that I don't know, so possibly being surprised by a climb
around a bend.

Quoted message said:

I rode in to work this morning and in the end just locked the front
shock out the whole way, so I could have just rode my rigid bike in to
work.

Quoted message said:

It's not my intention to strike a debate that has no doubt been
flogged to death about rigid vs hardtail. I do want to understand how
to use my front shock properly though.

Quoted message said:

Please help with advice / pointers.

IMO it's a bit of a gimmick. I reckon it's only worth locking out if you're
going on the road for a while, unless it's a handlebar mounted lockout. Most
people find that they end up very rarely using them.

What sort of forks are they by the way? It's much more worthwhile to get
them sprung and damped correctly.

Rock Shox Tora 302U-Turn fork, 85 - 130mm travel and lockout

I was speaking to a mate earlier and he reckons I could have the
shocks filled with more air pressure to do just that, i.e. in effect
reducing the travel / improving the preload.

I've noticed too that there is a rebound control underneath the shock
where it can be sped up or slowed down.

Peter Clinch said:

Dundonald said:

I've had a rigid bike for a long time and I'm recently testing out a
bike with front shocks for the first time. I've asked around, done a
bit of googling, to try understand when best to use the front shocks
and when to lock them out. I might add that my I typically ride on
off road tracks such as the TPT. The track I take to work is probably
80% off road track and 20% tarmac. Decent ascents and descents both
ways of the journey. I noticed on the first run that with the front
shock on, I'm bouncing as I'm putting the power down on a climb, so
seemed to lose power, is that right?

That's right.

Quoted message said:

So as I say I did a bit of research and what I understand so far is to
lock out before hitting a climb and unlock on flat and descent. Is
this right?

In most cases, yes, that should be about the size of it.

Quoted message said:

It just seems a bit of a pain locking and unlocking, especially if I'm
on a track that I don't know, so possibly being surprised by a climb
around a bend.

That's the nature of the beast. What it boils down to is you lock it
when that helps and you unlock it when that helps. If all the switching
between lock and out is proving unhelpful to a greater degree than the
suspension effect is helpful or the pogoing effect is unhelpful then
decide which mode suits you best overall, and stick with it. I'd be
inclined to leave it free unless I knew I had a big climb to do, but YMMV.

Also, bear in mind that different styles will pogo the front forks more
or less than others. If you can stay sat down and spinning a low gear
you'll bounce around a lot less than if you're standing on big gears.

Rock Shox Tora 302U-Turn fork, 85 - 130mm travel and lockout

are the shocks. I understand that it may be possible to put more air
in to them to reduce the pogo?

I've also noticed too that there is a rebound control underneath the
shock where it can be sped up or slowed down.

Paul Boyd usenet.is.worse@plusnet said:

Mark said the following on 09/08/2007 11:36:

Quoted message said:

You can get thingies which enable you to lock and unlock from the
handlebars. Anyone know if you can retro fit them?

You certainly can on many (all?) Rockshox forks.

The bike I'm testing has Rock Shox Tora 302U-Turn fork. Are they any
good?

Quoted message said:

I've done just that on
the Tora, then transferred selected bits over to convert my current
Revelations to remote lockout. The hardest part is getting hold of the
parts. The lever itself is easy to find, but you also need either a
complete remote MCA assembly (expensive) or a return spring (cheap)
along with the top cap to mount the cable.

It's a bit of a gimmick really because the shock-mounted lever isn't
exactly miles away, but it is nice to just stretch your thumb across and
have instant and adjustable lockout.

--
Paul Boydhttp://www.paul-boyd.co.uk/

"Dundonald" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Doki said:

What sort of forks are they by the way? It's much more worthwhile to get
them sprung and damped correctly.

Rock Shox Tora 302U-Turn fork, 85 - 130mm travel and lockout

I was speaking to a mate earlier and he reckons I could have the
shocks filled with more air pressure to do just that, i.e. in effect
reducing the travel / improving the preload.

I've noticed too that there is a rebound control underneath the shock
where it can be sped up or slowed down.

It depends on the forks - the Rock Shox are supposed to have a spring, but a
lot of forks also have air to give a bit of adjustability.

"Dundonald" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Paul Boyd usenet.is.worse@plusnet said:

Mark said the following on 09/08/2007 11:36:

Quoted message said:

You can get thingies which enable you to lock and unlock from the
handlebars. Anyone know if you can retro fit them?

You certainly can on many (all?) Rockshox forks.

The bike I'm testing has Rock Shox Tora 302U-Turn fork. Are they any
good?

Have a look at the reviews people have written on chain reaction cycles.
They look pretty decent to me, but I've got a strong bias towards Marzocchi
due to the mechanical simplicity and longevity of the things.

Dundonald said:

I've had a rigid bike for a long time and I'm recently testing out a
bike with front shocks for the first time. I've asked around, done a
bit of googling, to try understand when best to use the front shocks
and when to lock them out. I might add that my I typically ride on
off road tracks such as the TPT. The track I take to work is probably
80% off road track and 20% tarmac. Decent ascents and descents both
ways of the journey. I noticed on the first run that with the front
shock on, I'm bouncing as I'm putting the power down on a climb, so
seemed to lose power, is that right?

that is normal yes.

Quoted message said:

So as I say I did a bit of research and what I understand so far is to
lock out before hitting a climb and unlock on flat and descent. Is
this right?

yes.

Quoted message said:

It just seems a bit of a pain locking and unlocking, especially if I'm
on a track that I don't know, so possibly being surprised by a climb
around a bend.

and possibly damadge the shocks?

Quoted message said:

I rode in to work this morning and in the end just locked the front
shock out the whole way, so I could have just rode my rigid bike in to
work.

It's not my intention to strike a debate that has no doubt been
flogged to death about rigid vs hardtail. I do want to understand how
to use my front shock properly though.

you should beable to ajust the forks, to be softer or harder, maybe a
bit harder to stop it bouncing so much but still take out lumps and
bumps?

personly i can't be assed to lock out so i found a postion that seems to
suit me.

Quoted message said:

Please help with advice / pointers.

Thanks.

roger
--
www.rogermerriman.com

"Roger Merriman" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Dundonald said:

It just seems a bit of a pain locking and unlocking, especially if I'm
on a track that I don't know, so possibly being surprised by a climb
around a bend.

and possibly damadge the shocks?

I can't really see that happening. The rock shox still have some travel when
locked.

In article <[email hidden]>,
Dundonald
[email hidden] says...

Quoted message said:

I've had a rigid bike for a long time and I'm recently testing out a
bike with front shocks for the first time. I've asked around, done a
bit of googling, to try understand when best to use the front shocks
and when to lock them out. I might add that my I typically ride on
off road tracks such as the TPT. The track I take to work is probably
80% off road track and 20% tarmac. Decent ascents and descents both
ways of the journey. I noticed on the first run that with the front
shock on, I'm bouncing as I'm putting the power down on a climb, so
seemed to lose power, is that right?

How much it affects you will depend on your riding style. but that's
basically why it's a good idea to have lockable suspension.

Quoted message said:

So as I say I did a bit of research and what I understand so far is to
lock out before hitting a climb and unlock on flat and descent. Is
this right?

Yes.

Quoted message said:

It just seems a bit of a pain locking and unlocking, especially if I'm
on a track that I don't know, so possibly being surprised by a climb
around a bend.

Why? It just needs a quick flick of the little lever on the handlebars.

Dundonald said the following on 09/08/2007 13:59:

Quoted message said:

The bike I'm testing has Rock Shox Tora 302U-Turn fork. Are they any
good?

I had Tora 318 U-Turn forks and they are good - the version I had is
basically the same as 302s but with a coil spring rather than air. The
bike snobs will say they're too cheap to be good, but they did just fine
for me! I now have Revelation air forks, but only because I fancied the
adjustability of air and they were a good price. Oh, and the matt black
matched my frame better than powder blue. And they are a pound lighter :-)

The rebound adjustment is fairly crucial. You want it as fast as
possible, but not so fast that the bars bounce back in your face. Turn
it right round towards the hare as far as it will go, then back off half
a turn and experiment from there. If it's too slow, you will find the
forks "pack down" after successive bumps where they don't have time to
rebound before the next hit compresses it more.

If you don't like the pogo-stick effect, you can put more air in, or
adjust the damping. More air is better, but make sure you have enough
sag still. My lockout is basically either on or off (despite the remote
adjustment facility!), and I'm still experimenting with air pressures.

--
Paul Boyd
http://www.paul-boyd.co.uk/

Doki said the following on 09/08/2007 14:30:

Quoted message said:

It depends on the forks - the Rock Shox are supposed to have a spring,
but a lot of forks also have air to give a bit of adjustability.

You have a good point there - it's just registered. A Tora 302 U-Turn
is a coil fork, not air, so it isn't possible to add more air!

To change the bounciness, the spring needs to be changed. Dundonald -
nothing personal, but how heavy are you?

--
Paul Boyd
http://www.paul-boyd.co.uk/

Dundonald said:

I've had a rigid bike for a long time and I'm recently testing out a
bike with front shocks for the first time. I've asked around, done a
bit of googling, to try understand when best to use the front shocks
and when to lock them out. I might add that my I typically ride on
off road tracks such as the TPT. The track I take to work is probably
80% off road track and 20% tarmac. Decent ascents and descents both
ways of the journey. I noticed on the first run that with the front
shock on, I'm bouncing as I'm putting the power down on a climb, so
seemed to lose power, is that right?

So as I say I did a bit of research and what I understand so far is to
lock out before hitting a climb and unlock on flat and descent. Is
this right?

It just seems a bit of a pain locking and unlocking, especially if I'm
on a track that I don't know, so possibly being surprised by a climb
around a bend.

I rode in to work this morning and in the end just locked the front
shock out the whole way, so I could have just rode my rigid bike in to
work.

It's not my intention to strike a debate that has no doubt been
flogged to death about rigid vs hardtail. I do want to understand how
to use my front shock properly though.

Please help with advice / pointers.

Thanks.

Or, you don't ride a suspension fork the same way as a rigid. I've
only ever locked a fork out while riding on the road to get to the
trail head and once hitting the trails I leave the fork unlocked until
I'm back on the road again. You may need to adjust your pedaling style
to accommodate a suspension fork. For example, if you're used to
riding at a slow cadence, mainly just pushing down through the pedal
stroke, thumping on the pedals you're going to see that fork just
bounce up and down. You need to drop a gear or two and spin more,
pushing the pedals around in cycle instead of just straight down,
maybe even starting to lift your foot on the return stroke.

On a shorter steep climbs where you may stand up to ride, on a rigid
fork you might have got forward on those handle bars, shifting more
weight over the front wheel and again started thumping those pedals.
On a sus fork you going to see alot of bouncing if you ride it this
way and so you don't want to bring all that weight forward. Stand
straight up, not so forward, and almost unweight the front end, pull
back on the bars to counteract your pedaling action, it's almost like
pulling a wheelie. You've got to imagine applying that pedaling force
through just the rear triangle of the frame and not down through the
whole bike. This works the same for sprinting and if you see riders
sprinting in a 4x start you see a few popping the odd wheelie as they
focus all that pedaling effort down through the rear triangle to the
back wheel.

On longer smoother climbs, it's about the same and locking out the
front shock helps a bit.

Marz said:

Or, you don't ride a suspension fork the same way as a rigid. I've
only ever locked a fork out while riding on the road to get to the
trail head and once hitting the trails I leave the fork unlocked until
I'm back on the road again. You may need to adjust your pedaling style
to accommodate a suspension fork. For example, if you're used to
riding at a slow cadence, mainly just pushing down through the pedal
stroke, thumping on the pedals you're going to see that fork just
bounce up and down. You need to drop a gear or two and spin more,
pushing the pedals around in cycle instead of just straight down,
maybe even starting to lift your foot on the return stroke.

Higher cadences in circles (and indeed just getting up hills anyway) are
much easier with clipless pedals like SPuDs or ATACs: if you don't use
them yet, well worth considering.

Pete.
--
Peter Clinch Medical Physics IT Officer
Tel 44 1382 660111 ext. 33637 Univ. of Dundee, Ninewells Hospital
Fax 44 1382 640177 Dundee DD1 9SY Scotland UK
net [email hidden] http://www.dundee.ac.uk/~pjclinch/