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from sprint to IM?

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19 August 2005
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B
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  1. OK so I am just another newbie bitten by the tri bug.

    I have now done 6 sprint tris in my area and I know the difference between
    these and an IM are huge to say the least.

    I have an ok fitness base and my sprint times for a tough course with a
    couple of 7% hills on it is 1:40

    I can do a 750 swim in about 15 min on most days, my bike is about 40-50 min
    for 20 km and a 10k run takes about 50 min.

    Like I said I know its a huge difference but if I train about 10-15 hrs /
    week could I finish an Ironman by next June 25 (CDA).

    At the end of sprint races I could keep going and going. I do not feel tired
    at all and someone once said I had the pace of an ironman (at a sprint this
    is not good )

    I only want to finish and finish in about 16 hrs at most whats your opinions
    oh great tri masters.

    Brian

  2. B said:

    OK so I am just another newbie bitten by the tri bug.

    I have now done 6 sprint tris in my area and I know the difference between
    these and an IM are huge to say the least.

    I have an ok fitness base and my sprint times for a tough course with a
    couple of 7% hills on it is 1:40

    I can do a 750 swim in about 15 min on most days, my bike is about 40-50 min
    for 20 km and a 10k run takes about 50 min.

    Like I said I know its a huge difference but if I train about 10-15 hrs /
    week could I finish an Ironman by next June 25 (CDA).

    At the end of sprint races I could keep going and going. I do not feel tired
    at all and someone once said I had the pace of an ironman (at a sprint this
    is not good )

    I only want to finish and finish in about 16 hrs at most whats your opinions
    oh great tri masters.

    Brian

    Maybe you're the 1 in 1,000 that could pull it off.

    But more likely you'll injure yourself in training from the huge
    increase in training load. If you do manage to get through the
    training and by some miracle finish, you'll have a miserable, painful,
    experience.

    All of which could be prevented.

    What's your hurry? Hell, I was 50 before I did my first IM.
    You need AT LEAST another year of increasingly longer tri's, then a
    Half IM to give you a taste of what you're in for.

    NASA didn't go for the moon the year after they launched Alan Shephard
    into space. Why are you trying to do that? They took the incremental
    steps necessary to learn what they didn't know, but needed to know. Do
    the same.

    Mike Tennent
    (8 x IM Finisher)
    "IronPenguin"

  3. I have to agree with Mike on this one. A year dedicated to Half's will be
    VERY beneficial. At least do one or two halfs before your IM so you have a
    better idea what you are getting into, and even then IM racing is a
    completely different beast.
    M~

    "Mike Tennent" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
    news:[email hidden]...

    Quoted message said:
    B said:

    OK so I am just another newbie bitten by the tri bug.

    I have now done 6 sprint tris in my area and I know the difference between
    these and an IM are huge to say the least.

    I have an ok fitness base and my sprint times for a tough course with a
    couple of 7% hills on it is 1:40

    I can do a 750 swim in about 15 min on most days, my bike is about 40-50
    min
    for 20 km and a 10k run takes about 50 min.

    Like I said I know its a huge difference but if I train about 10-15 hrs /
    week could I finish an Ironman by next June 25 (CDA).

    At the end of sprint races I could keep going and going. I do not feel
    tired
    at all and someone once said I had the pace of an ironman (at a sprint
    this
    is not good )

    I only want to finish and finish in about 16 hrs at most whats your
    opinions
    oh great tri masters.

    Brian

    Maybe you're the 1 in 1,000 that could pull it off.

    But more likely you'll injure yourself in training from the huge
    increase in training load. If you do manage to get through the
    training and by some miracle finish, you'll have a miserable, painful,
    experience.

    All of which could be prevented.

    What's your hurry? Hell, I was 50 before I did my first IM.
    You need AT LEAST another year of increasingly longer tri's, then a
    Half IM to give you a taste of what you're in for.

    NASA didn't go for the moon the year after they launched Alan Shephard
    into space. Why are you trying to do that? They took the incremental
    steps necessary to learn what they didn't know, but needed to know. Do
    the same.

    Mike Tennent
    (8 x IM Finisher)
    "IronPenguin"

  4. I agree with the below - there's no rush and some halfs would
    definitely be a good idea. However, it does also depend on what
    training you currently do other than sprints? If you have a decent
    endurance base then it should certainly be achievable.

    June is a long way away - if you have a decent base now and build on
    that incrementally week by week, making sure you take a recovery week
    once in every 4 or so, then it can be done. If you do attempt it, then
    get some proper advice, make sure you build up the load gradually with
    lots of recovery time, and back off at the first sign of overtraining
    or injury.

    I know people that have gone from sprint or Olympic distance to IM in a
    year and have done it safely and got good times. However, it should be
    noted that all of them had a strong sporting background going back
    years so had both a very good fitness base and a lot of training
    experience.

    Mark said:

    I have to agree with Mike on this one. A year dedicated to Half's will be
    VERY beneficial. At least do one or two halfs before your IM so you have a
    better idea what you are getting into, and even then IM racing is a
    completely different beast.
    M~

    "Mike Tennent" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
    news:[email hidden]...

    Quoted message said:
    B said:

    OK so I am just another newbie bitten by the tri bug.

    I have now done 6 sprint tris in my area and I know the difference between
    these and an IM are huge to say the least.

    I have an ok fitness base and my sprint times for a tough course with a
    couple of 7% hills on it is 1:40

    I can do a 750 swim in about 15 min on most days, my bike is about 40-50
    min
    for 20 km and a 10k run takes about 50 min.

    Like I said I know its a huge difference but if I train about 10-15 hrs /
    week could I finish an Ironman by next June 25 (CDA).

    At the end of sprint races I could keep going and going. I do not feel
    tired
    at all and someone once said I had the pace of an ironman (at a sprint
    this
    is not good )

    I only want to finish and finish in about 16 hrs at most whats your
    opinions
    oh great tri masters.

    Brian

    Maybe you're the 1 in 1,000 that could pull it off.

    But more likely you'll injure yourself in training from the huge
    increase in training load. If you do manage to get through the
    training and by some miracle finish, you'll have a miserable, painful,
    experience.

    All of which could be prevented.

    What's your hurry? Hell, I was 50 before I did my first IM.
    You need AT LEAST another year of increasingly longer tri's, then a
    Half IM to give you a taste of what you're in for.

    NASA didn't go for the moon the year after they launched Alan Shephard
    into space. Why are you trying to do that? They took the incremental
    steps necessary to learn what they didn't know, but needed to know. Do
    the same.

    Mike Tennent
    (8 x IM Finisher)
    "IronPenguin"

  5. In article <hCgNe.59326$vj.43690@pd7tw1no>, "B" <[email hidden]>

    Quoted message said:


    Like I said I know its a huge difference but if I train about 10-15 hrs /
    week could I finish an Ironman by next June 25 (CDA).

    I finished my first Ironman with my biggest week of training being about
    12-13 hours, so I'd say you could do it. Just make sure you get a few
    100-mile bike rides in and some long runs up to about 18 miles.

    --Harold Buck

    "I used to rock and roll all night,
    and party every day.
    Then it was every other day. . . ."
    -Homer J. Simpson

  6. B said:

    OK so I am just another newbie bitten by the tri bug.


    <<SNIP>>

    Quoted message said:

    I only want to finish and finish in about 16 hrs at most whats your opinions
    oh great tri masters.

    Brian

    I agree with Harold, why not? Just prepare wisely, as you can.

    There are two kinds: those who want to do an IM and those that *must*
    do an IM. You strike me as the latter.

    You may find, like myself, that I just needed to get it out of my
    system. I am a bruiser, ill-suited for the sport. If it was swim,
    bike, *rumble* - - I might be world class. : )

    I'll risk offering some veteran's advise: Enjoy triathlon, but not all
    roads lead to Ironman.

    rsquared

  7. I need to know a lot more about your back ground. You did not give your
    age, only that you have done 6 sprints over some period of time and train
    10 -15 hours per week.

    That does not help much. Your time is rather slow in all fields and
    indicates that you would have a tough time completing IM in the allowed
    time. At 50, I was doing sprints in 1:08 to 1:11 in my first year of
    triathlon. 15 hours weekly training if done correctly can get one through
    an IM Distance quite comfortably. I have done 7 and my lowest training
    week average was 18 hours, my highest was near 30 hours .

    Why not schedule an Oly distance soon and then move to Half. Learn for
    yourself. I nor any other here can tell you how you will do. It's an inner
    thing that only you know. One has to want to do an Ironman to do it. It
    all depends on how badly you want it. Are you ready to focus and commit the
    time, sweat and pain of hundreds of hours of heart pounding training. If
    you were you would know the answer to your question.

    Ken

    "B" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
    news:hCgNe.59326$vj.43690@pd7tw1no...

    Quoted message said:

    OK so I am just another newbie bitten by the tri bug.

    I have now done 6 sprint tris in my area and I know the difference between
    these and an IM are huge to say the least.

    I have an ok fitness base and my sprint times for a tough course with a
    couple of 7% hills on it is 1:40

    I can do a 750 swim in about 15 min on most days, my bike is about 40-50
    min for 20 km and a 10k run takes about 50 min.

    Like I said I know its a huge difference but if I train about 10-15 hrs /
    week could I finish an Ironman by next June 25 (CDA).

    At the end of sprint races I could keep going and going. I do not feel
    tired at all and someone once said I had the pace of an ironman (at a
    sprint this is not good )

    I only want to finish and finish in about 16 hrs at most whats your
    opinions oh great tri masters.

    Brian

  8. "IMKen" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
    news:[email hidden]...

    Quoted message said:

    I need to know a lot more about your back ground. You did not give your
    age, only that you have done 6 sprints over some period of time and train
    10 -15 hours per week.

    That does not help much. Your time is rather slow in all fields and
    indicates that you would have a tough time completing IM in the allowed
    time.

    With all due respect Ken, while I agree with much of what you said, I have
    to disagree strongly on the above point. My average time in all events - at
    all distances - is substantially worse than what Brian outlined yet I
    managed to finish my first IM in 14:05. Not blazing fast by anyone's
    measure, but well under the allowed time. And I most certainly wasn't alone
    or unique on the course.

    Stubbornness; tolerance of pain; ability to carefully measure one's output;
    desire - a lot of variables over and above raw speed - can and do all come
    into play in an IM. Many of us aren't jackrabbits, but do pretty well when
    the goal is to keep going for the long haul. As you said, only Brian can
    know if he is one of us.

    Brian, I'd say what you're suggesting is possible, but REALLY freakin' hard.
    It'll take a ton of dedication and even more care. I tried it (doing an IM
    my second season) and ended up hurt and sick. Ironically, I failed because
    I started training too soon and tried to keep the training up too long. I
    ended up lowering my sights to a half-IM that year and used the knowledge I
    learned to successfully complete an IM in season three.

    I know now that, yes, it would have been possible to do the IM in year two,
    IF I had done EVERYTHING perfectly - and I was actually pretty close to it.
    In hindsight, I can pin my failure down to a single training week, but one
    or two naive training mistakes doomed me. It is damn hard to gauge
    everything just right: when to start training; how much rest to build in;
    how to listen to your body and distinguish simply being tired from
    overtraining; how to not push too far too fast; how to deal with
    disturbances to your training schedule; what to eat and when. It's a
    balancing act that's extremely difficult to get right the first time -
    alibet possible.

    I'd be curious to know what percentage of first-time IM finishers had
    notions of doing one a year earlier and had to re-evaluate before they ever
    made it to race day. People like that (myself included) don't show up on
    the DNF statistics, but I'll bet the number is high. As Ken said, you
    didn't give us much about your background, but you may also find out that
    some portion of your body just isn't cut out for it. [I know a guy who is a
    damn good triathlete; he can go for days at high speed in the water or on
    the bike. But, any run over about 15 miles, their knees just blow up].

    Why not give yourself some time to find out? The most honest answer to your
    question is yes, you can do it, but probably shouldn't.

    John

    Quoted message said:

    At 50, I was doing sprints in 1:08 to 1:11 in my first year of triathlon.
    15 hours weekly training if done correctly can get one through an IM
    Distance quite comfortably. I have done 7 and my lowest training week
    average was 18 hours, my highest was near 30 hours .

    Why not schedule an Oly distance soon and then move to Half. Learn for
    yourself. I nor any other here can tell you how you will do. It's an
    inner thing that only you know. One has to want to do an Ironman to do
    it. It all depends on how badly you want it. Are you ready to focus and
    commit the time, sweat and pain of hundreds of hours of heart pounding
    training. If you were you would know the answer to your question.

    Ken

  9. A professor in our department was talking about how running was just
    like walking when people get used to it, so a marathon wouldn't be that
    big a deal because people could probably walk 26 miles if they had to.
    Of course, this guy seems to smoke more than anyone else I know, and
    I doubt he has any experience running. Also, we were in a bar and he'd
    had a few by that time. But I was sort of amused. 🙂

    Wendy

  10. In article <[email hidden]>,

    John Hardt said:


    Why not give yourself some time to find out? The most honest answer to your
    question is yes, you can do it, but probably shouldn't.

    This iis probably the most sensible answer. OTOH, if he found a
    later-season half-IM this year, did it and enjoyed it, then maybe next
    year wouldn't be such an awful idea.

    --Harold Buck

    "I used to rock and roll all night,
    and party every day.
    Then it was every other day. . . ."
    -Homer J. Simpson

  11. thanks all for your input.

    I may just do as harold suggested and do a late season half in october or
    november.

    Just to clarify I am not yet doing 15 hrs week of training, actually and I
    hate to say this the only training I was doing is going to a masters class 2
    times a week and that might explain why the swim is my best portion.

    I only bike about 1-2 week and thats for a 2 hr slow ride of about 50 -60
    km. Running rarely happens outside mostly on a treadmill 45 min at a time at
    most 2 times week.

    I know its bad but I just have not had the motivation to train for the
    sprints. I am not a competitive guy, I am there for challenge, to finish
    and to enjoy myself. Not beat some other guy. The ironman is a challenge not
    matter which way you slice it.

    I like to meet other people doing the same as me and I enjoy the event not
    the race.

    Don't get me wrong I do not want to be that final guy on race day but I
    wouldn't care if I was.

    Some of you answered me as competitive triathletes and not as that final
    guy. Ease up and relax. Go surfing and meditate or something.

    I have decided to get a coach that thinks I can do it in 10 months (which I
    have found highly rec) and go for it the only bad will be the guys yelling
    at me to get out of their way cause I am too slow and fat.

    Have fun and tri hard.

    "Harold Buck" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
    news:[email hidden]...

    Quoted message said:

    In article <[email hidden]>,

    John Hardt said:


    Why not give yourself some time to find out? The most honest answer to
    your
    question is yes, you can do it, but probably shouldn't.

    This iis probably the most sensible answer. OTOH, if he found a
    later-season half-IM this year, did it and enjoyed it, then maybe next
    year wouldn't be such an awful idea.

    --Harold Buck

    "I used to rock and roll all night,
    and party every day.
    Then it was every other day. . . ."
    -Homer J. Simpson

  12. Ha Ha Ha ha ha ha ha all the way through those 14.2 miles of an IM.

    Ken

    "Wendy" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
    news:[email hidden]...

    Quoted message said:

    A professor in our department was talking about how running was just
    like walking when people get used to it, so a marathon wouldn't be that
    big a deal because people could probably walk 26 miles if they had to.
    Of course, this guy seems to smoke more than anyone else I know, and
    I doubt he has any experience running. Also, we were in a bar and he'd
    had a few by that time. But I was sort of amused. 🙂

    Wendy

  13. Yep, that is a good way to learn. He could simply work his idea and sign
    up for an IM as he would like and go out and have fun.

    Let us know how you do "B".

    Ken

    "Harold Buck" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
    news:[email hidden]...

    Quoted message said:

    In article <[email hidden]>,

    John Hardt said:


    Why not give yourself some time to find out? The most honest answer to
    your
    question is yes, you can do it, but probably shouldn't.

    This iis probably the most sensible answer. OTOH, if he found a
    later-season half-IM this year, did it and enjoyed it, then maybe next
    year wouldn't be such an awful idea.

    --Harold Buck

    "I used to rock and roll all night,
    and party every day.
    Then it was every other day. . . ."
    -Homer J. Simpson

  14. My math tells me that if he maintained his sprint speed of 1hr 40 minutes
    for the entire IM distance it would take him approximately 15.5 hours . I
    do have a question on what he is calling a sprint. I take it to be The
    standard as defined by Sprint Distance Triathlon: 750 meters swim (500m is
    also very common) / 20 km bike / 5 km run (sometimes called "short course",
    I think that is not likely to happen. If I could do that I would complete
    IM in about 10 hours and that would be about 2 hours under my age group
    record. I think my comment is correct as it is unlikely, though not
    impossible, for anyone to maintain their max sprint speed through an IM
    distance.. Do the math John as I could have made an error.

    Ken

    "John Hardt" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
    news:[email hidden]...

    Quoted message said:

    "IMKen" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
    news:[email hidden]...

    Quoted message said:

    I need to know a lot more about your back ground. You did not give your
    age, only that you have done 6 sprints over some period of time and train
    10 -15 hours per week.

    That does not help much. Your time is rather slow in all fields and
    indicates that you would have a tough time completing IM in the allowed
    time.

    With all due respect Ken, while I agree with much of what you said, I have
    to disagree strongly on the above point. My average time in all events -
    at all distances - is substantially worse than what Brian outlined yet I
    managed to finish my first IM in 14:05. Not blazing fast by anyone's
    measure, but well under the allowed time. And I most certainly wasn't
    alone or unique on the course.

    Stubbornness; tolerance of pain; ability to carefully measure one's
    output; desire - a lot of variables over and above raw speed - can and do
    all come into play in an IM. Many of us aren't jackrabbits, but do pretty
    well when the goal is to keep going for the long haul. As you said, only
    Brian can know if he is one of us.

    Brian, I'd say what you're suggesting is possible, but REALLY freakin'
    hard. It'll take a ton of dedication and even more care. I tried it
    (doing an IM my second season) and ended up hurt and sick. Ironically, I
    failed because I started training too soon and tried to keep the training
    up too long. I ended up lowering my sights to a half-IM that year and
    used the knowledge I learned to successfully complete an IM in season
    three.

    I know now that, yes, it would have been possible to do the IM in year
    two, IF I had done EVERYTHING perfectly - and I was actually pretty close
    to it. In hindsight, I can pin my failure down to a single training week,
    but one or two naive training mistakes doomed me. It is damn hard to
    gauge everything just right: when to start training; how much rest to
    build in; how to listen to your body and distinguish simply being tired
    from overtraining; how to not push too far too fast; how to deal with
    disturbances to your training schedule; what to eat and when. It's a
    balancing act that's extremely difficult to get right the first time -
    alibet possible.

    I'd be curious to know what percentage of first-time IM finishers had
    notions of doing one a year earlier and had to re-evaluate before they
    ever made it to race day. People like that (myself included) don't show
    up on the DNF statistics, but I'll bet the number is high. As Ken said,
    you didn't give us much about your background, but you may also find out
    that some portion of your body just isn't cut out for it. [I know a guy
    who is a damn good triathlete; he can go for days at high speed in the
    water or on the bike. But, any run over about 15 miles, their knees just
    blow up].

    Why not give yourself some time to find out? The most honest answer to
    your question is yes, you can do it, but probably shouldn't.

    John

    Quoted message said:

    At 50, I was doing sprints in 1:08 to 1:11 in my first year of
    triathlon. 15 hours weekly training if done correctly can get one through
    an IM Distance quite comfortably. I have done 7 and my lowest training
    week average was 18 hours, my highest was near 30 hours .

    Why not schedule an Oly distance soon and then move to Half. Learn for
    yourself. I nor any other here can tell you how you will do. It's an
    inner thing that only you know. One has to want to do an Ironman to do
    it. It all depends on how badly you want it. Are you ready to focus and
    commit the time, sweat and pain of hundreds of hours of heart pounding
    training. If you were you would know the answer to your question.

    Ken

  15. Brian, aside from all the discussion, much of it valid points, the answer
    is yes you could if you are focused and do your 10 to 15 hours diligently
    over the next year. Your improvement over the next year will amaze you.
    Go for it and enjoy the event of your choice.

    Ken @ Kauai

    "B" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
    news:hCgNe.59326$vj.43690@pd7tw1no...

    Quoted message said:

    OK so I am just another newbie bitten by the tri bug.

    I have now done 6 sprint tris in my area and I know the difference between
    these and an IM are huge to say the least.

    I have an ok fitness base and my sprint times for a tough course with a
    couple of 7% hills on it is 1:40

    I can do a 750 swim in about 15 min on most days, my bike is about 40-50
    min for 20 km and a 10k run takes about 50 min.

    Like I said I know its a huge difference but if I train about 10-15 hrs /
    week could I finish an Ironman by next June 25 (CDA).

    At the end of sprint races I could keep going and going. I do not feel
    tired at all and someone once said I had the pace of an ironman (at a
    sprint this is not good )

    I only want to finish and finish in about 16 hrs at most whats your
    opinions oh great tri masters.

    Brian

  16. "IMKen" <[email hidden]> wrote in news:amzNe.4868$UE2.2463
    @tornado.socal.rr.com:

    Quoted message said:

    Ha Ha Ha ha ha ha ha all the way through those 14.2 miles of an IM.

    Ken

    And then boo hoo hoo through the next 126.4 ;-)

    Tom

  17. Ken,

    You're right, I miscalculated Brian's bike speed. But it wasn't my intent
    to suggest that Brian maintain his sprint pace for the duration of an IM. I
    was suggesting that he could do significantly worse than his sprint pace and
    still get there. Even with the correct math, I still know that's true - his
    sprint pace isn't all that far off from my own.

    Pure math would suggest that finishing an IM isn't that hard to do:

    1. Maintain a modest 2:00 per 100 yard swim pace: 01:25:00
    2. Take your sweet time in T1: 00:00:10
    3. Average only 15 mph for the bike leg: 07:30:00
    4. Take your time again in T2: 00:00:10
    5. Run a 10:00/mile marathon: 04:22:00

    Add it up and you're still under 14 hours with a 3 hours to spare under the
    cut off. Heck, you could walk most of the marathon and still get there.

    I just didn't want to lead Brian to obsess about speed or rule out an IM
    because he's "too slow". If he wants to go from sprint to IM in a year -
    and his goal is to finish - he appears (on paper) to be capable of doing it.

    But he'd do well to pay attention to all the other things that go into an IM
    and not worry about speed. Because while pure math would suggest that
    finishing an IM isn't that hard to do -- nevertheless it is.

    John

    On 8/20/05 2:10 AM, in article [email hidden],

    IMKen said:

    My math tells me that if he maintained his sprint speed of 1hr 40 minutes
    for the entire IM distance it would take him approximately 15.5 hours . I
    do have a question on what he is calling a sprint. I take it to be The
    standard as defined by Sprint Distance Triathlon: 750 meters swim (500m is
    also very common) / 20 km bike / 5 km run (sometimes called "short course",
    I think that is not likely to happen. If I could do that I would complete
    IM in about 10 hours and that would be about 2 hours under my age group
    record. I think my comment is correct as it is unlikely, though not
    impossible, for anyone to maintain their max sprint speed through an IM
    distance.. Do the math John as I could have made an error.

    Ken

    "John Hardt" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
    news:[email hidden]...

    Quoted message said:

    "IMKen" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
    news:[email hidden]...

    Quoted message said:

    I need to know a lot more about your back ground. You did not give your
    age, only that you have done 6 sprints over some period of time and train
    10 -15 hours per week.

    That does not help much. Your time is rather slow in all fields and
    indicates that you would have a tough time completing IM in the allowed
    time.

    With all due respect Ken, while I agree with much of what you said, I have
    to disagree strongly on the above point. My average time in all events -
    at all distances - is substantially worse than what Brian outlined yet I
    managed to finish my first IM in 14:05. Not blazing fast by anyone's
    measure, but well under the allowed time. And I most certainly wasn't
    alone or unique on the course.

    Stubbornness; tolerance of pain; ability to carefully measure one's
    output; desire - a lot of variables over and above raw speed - can and do
    all come into play in an IM. Many of us aren't jackrabbits, but do pretty
    well when the goal is to keep going for the long haul. As you said, only
    Brian can know if he is one of us.

    Brian, I'd say what you're suggesting is possible, but REALLY freakin'
    hard. It'll take a ton of dedication and even more care. I tried it
    (doing an IM my second season) and ended up hurt and sick. Ironically, I
    failed because I started training too soon and tried to keep the training
    up too long. I ended up lowering my sights to a half-IM that year and
    used the knowledge I learned to successfully complete an IM in season
    three.

    I know now that, yes, it would have been possible to do the IM in year
    two, IF I had done EVERYTHING perfectly - and I was actually pretty close
    to it. In hindsight, I can pin my failure down to a single training week,
    but one or two naive training mistakes doomed me. It is damn hard to
    gauge everything just right: when to start training; how much rest to
    build in; how to listen to your body and distinguish simply being tired
    from overtraining; how to not push too far too fast; how to deal with
    disturbances to your training schedule; what to eat and when. It's a
    balancing act that's extremely difficult to get right the first time -
    alibet possible.

    I'd be curious to know what percentage of first-time IM finishers had
    notions of doing one a year earlier and had to re-evaluate before they
    ever made it to race day. People like that (myself included) don't show
    up on the DNF statistics, but I'll bet the number is high. As Ken said,
    you didn't give us much about your background, but you may also find out
    that some portion of your body just isn't cut out for it. [I know a guy
    who is a damn good triathlete; he can go for days at high speed in the
    water or on the bike. But, any run over about 15 miles, their knees just
    blow up].

    Why not give yourself some time to find out? The most honest answer to
    your question is yes, you can do it, but probably shouldn't.

    John

    Quoted message said:

    At 50, I was doing sprints in 1:08 to 1:11 in my first year of
    triathlon. 15 hours weekly training if done correctly can get one through
    an IM Distance quite comfortably. I have done 7 and my lowest training
    week average was 18 hours, my highest was near 30 hours .

    Why not schedule an Oly distance soon and then move to Half. Learn for
    yourself. I nor any other here can tell you how you will do. It's an
    inner thing that only you know. One has to want to do an Ironman to do
    it. It all depends on how badly you want it. Are you ready to focus and
    commit the time, sweat and pain of hundreds of hours of heart pounding
    training. If you were you would know the answer to your question.

    Ken

  18. John Hardt <[email hidden]> wrote in news:BF2DDD1E.9C51%
    [email hidden]:

    Quoted message said:

    5. Run a 10:00/mile marathon: 04:22:00

    How many participants with the splits you listed above this actually pull
    off a sub-5 marathon? Remember, they've been active nearly 10 hours at the
    point they start the run. I suspect if you look an any IM results, you
    won't be able to find even a handfull of results that look like the ones
    you show in your post.

  19. Well, for a starter I want to know how to do a 10 second T1 and T2. I
    usually do IM in 11:40 to 12 Hours and my T times are always multiple
    minutes.
    The Hypothetical plan you developed is of course possible but in the real
    life of triathlon is not a likely scenario. I looked through my stack of
    IMH results for my years of racing there and I did find a few, very few
    persons who did a 7:30 bike that ran the Marathon in under 5 hours. 95
    percent were way over that mark, mostly exceeding 6 hours. Their T times
    were 5 to 10 minutes in the real life results book. But yes, I concede that
    your model triathlete could finish with a correction to the T times.

    Your model swim time though makes me ill as that is usually about my sucko
    time. I have to dig in on the bike for 5:40's, 50's to get a reasonable
    finish.

    In theory, any person in average health could do an IM in 16 hours. In
    real life the things that happen to a human body and mind in an IM
    environment make it a difficult feat .

    Have a nice day, I'm off for a bike work-out,

    Ken

    "John Hardt" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
    news:[email hidden]...

    Quoted message said:

    Ken,

    You're right, I miscalculated Brian's bike speed. But it wasn't my intent
    to suggest that Brian maintain his sprint pace for the duration of an IM.
    I
    was suggesting that he could do significantly worse than his sprint pace
    and
    still get there. Even with the correct math, I still know that's true -
    his
    sprint pace isn't all that far off from my own.

    Pure math would suggest that finishing an IM isn't that hard to do:

    1. Maintain a modest 2:00 per 100 yard swim pace: 01:25:00
    2. Take your sweet time in T1: 00:00:10
    3. Average only 15 mph for the bike leg: 07:30:00
    4. Take your time again in T2: 00:00:10
    5. Run a 10:00/mile marathon: 04:22:00

    Add it up and you're still under 14 hours with a 3 hours to spare under
    the
    cut off. Heck, you could walk most of the marathon and still get there.

    I just didn't want to lead Brian to obsess about speed or rule out an IM
    because he's "too slow". If he wants to go from sprint to IM in a year -
    and his goal is to finish - he appears (on paper) to be capable of doing
    it.

    But he'd do well to pay attention to all the other things that go into an
    IM
    and not worry about speed. Because while pure math would suggest that
    finishing an IM isn't that hard to do -- nevertheless it is.

    John

    On 8/20/05 2:10 AM, in article [email hidden],

    IMKen said:

    My math tells me that if he maintained his sprint speed of 1hr 40 minutes
    for the entire IM distance it would take him approximately 15.5 hours .
    I
    do have a question on what he is calling a sprint. I take it to be The
    standard as defined by Sprint Distance Triathlon: 750 meters swim (500m
    is
    also very common) / 20 km bike / 5 km run (sometimes called "short
    course",
    I think that is not likely to happen. If I could do that I would
    complete
    IM in about 10 hours and that would be about 2 hours under my age group
    record. I think my comment is correct as it is unlikely, though not
    impossible, for anyone to maintain their max sprint speed through an IM
    distance.. Do the math John as I could have made an error.

    Ken

    "John Hardt" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
    news:[email hidden]...

    Quoted message said:

    "IMKen" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
    news:[email hidden]...
    > I need to know a lot more about your back ground. You did not give
    > your
    > age, only that you have done 6 sprints over some period of time and
    > train
    > 10 -15 hours per week.
    >
    > That does not help much. Your time is rather slow in all fields and
    > indicates that you would have a tough time completing IM in the allowed
    > time.

    With all due respect Ken, while I agree with much of what you said, I
    have
    to disagree strongly on the above point. My average time in all
    events -
    at all distances - is substantially worse than what Brian outlined yet I
    managed to finish my first IM in 14:05. Not blazing fast by anyone's
    measure, but well under the allowed time. And I most certainly wasn't
    alone or unique on the course.

    Stubbornness; tolerance of pain; ability to carefully measure one's
    output; desire - a lot of variables over and above raw speed - can and
    do
    all come into play in an IM. Many of us aren't jackrabbits, but do
    pretty
    well when the goal is to keep going for the long haul. As you said,
    only
    Brian can know if he is one of us.

    Brian, I'd say what you're suggesting is possible, but REALLY freakin'
    hard. It'll take a ton of dedication and even more care. I tried it
    (doing an IM my second season) and ended up hurt and sick. Ironically,
    I
    failed because I started training too soon and tried to keep the
    training
    up too long. I ended up lowering my sights to a half-IM that year and
    used the knowledge I learned to successfully complete an IM in season
    three.

    I know now that, yes, it would have been possible to do the IM in year
    two, IF I had done EVERYTHING perfectly - and I was actually pretty
    close
    to it. In hindsight, I can pin my failure down to a single training
    week,
    but one or two naive training mistakes doomed me. It is damn hard to
    gauge everything just right: when to start training; how much rest to
    build in; how to listen to your body and distinguish simply being tired
    from overtraining; how to not push too far too fast; how to deal with
    disturbances to your training schedule; what to eat and when. It's a
    balancing act that's extremely difficult to get right the first time -
    alibet possible.

    I'd be curious to know what percentage of first-time IM finishers had
    notions of doing one a year earlier and had to re-evaluate before they
    ever made it to race day. People like that (myself included) don't show
    up on the DNF statistics, but I'll bet the number is high. As Ken said,
    you didn't give us much about your background, but you may also find out
    that some portion of your body just isn't cut out for it. [I know a guy
    who is a damn good triathlete; he can go for days at high speed in the
    water or on the bike. But, any run over about 15 miles, their knees
    just
    blow up].

    Why not give yourself some time to find out? The most honest answer to
    your question is yes, you can do it, but probably shouldn't.

    John

    > At 50, I was doing sprints in 1:08 to 1:11 in my first year of
    > triathlon. 15 hours weekly training if done correctly can get one
    > through
    > an IM Distance quite comfortably. I have done 7 and my lowest
    > training
    > week average was 18 hours, my highest was near 30 hours .
    >
    > Why not schedule an Oly distance soon and then move to Half. Learn for
    > yourself. I nor any other here can tell you how you will do. It's an
    > inner thing that only you know. One has to want to do an Ironman to
    > do
    > it. It all depends on how badly you want it. Are you ready to focus
    > and
    > commit the time, sweat and pain of hundreds of hours of heart pounding
    > training. If you were you would know the answer to your question.
    >
    > Ken


  20. On 8/21/05 10:12 AM, in article, "Tom Henderson" <[email hidden]>

    Quoted message said:

    John Hardt <[email hidden]> wrote in news:BF2DDD1E.9C51%
    [email hidden]:

    Quoted message said:

    5. Run a 10:00/mile marathon: 04:22:00

    How many participants with the splits you listed above this actually pull
    off a sub-5 marathon? Remember, they've been active nearly 10 hours at the
    point they start the run. I suspect if you look an any IM results, you
    won't be able to find even a handfull of results that look like the ones
    you show in your post.

    My point was that with those numbers you still have 3 hours to spare.

    John

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