Fried Dill Pickle chips

I've seen pics of some of the readers on this group. They need healthier, low-fat recipes.
Please stop posting high-fat, sugary recipes. Your version of veganism is as unhealthy as the
diets you abhor.

MrFalafel said:

Fried Dill Pickles

Sounds great... I love dill pickles. 🙂

usual suspect <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:<[email hidden]>...

Quoted message said:

I've seen pics of some of the readers on this group. They need healthier, low-fat recipes.
Please stop posting high-fat, sugary recipes. Your version of veganism is as unhealthy as the
diets you abhor.

I could be wrong about this Usual, but I think a lot of the recipes Mr Falafel posts are intended to
show that a vegan diet can include rich and delicious meals. It kind of dispels the whole "bean
sprouts and water" myth.

Most of the vegans here probably already have "basic" and "Every day" recipes, though I've tried to
post some of those and I've seen other people do it too.

-Rubystars

"Adam D. Moss" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:<[email hidden]>...

Quoted message said:

MrFalafel said:

Fried Dill Pickles

Sounds great... I love dill pickles. 🙂

The dill pickle chips sold at Asda are pretty good! It's nice to start seeing proper pickles
in the UK.

"usual suspect" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
"]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

I've seen pics of some of the readers on this group. They need healthier, low-fat recipes.
Please stop posting high-fat, sugary recipes. Your version of veganism is as unhealthy as the
diets you abhor.

We are all adults and can decide for ourselves whether a recipe is unhealthy or not. I treat myself
to "unhealthy" recipes now and again. A good diet is a varied diet and food should be fun. I have
eaten a balanced, varied diet all my adult life. Mr F is one of the few posters I have any time for
on this ng.

Deb

Rubystars said:

Quoted message said:

I've seen pics of some of the readers on this group. They need healthier, low-fat recipes.
Please stop posting high-fat, sugary recipes. Your version of veganism is as unhealthy as the
diets you abhor.

I could be wrong about this Usual, but I think a lot of the recipes Mr Falafel posts are intended
to show that a vegan diet can include rich and delicious meals.

What's rich or nutritious about fried pickles? :-)

Quoted message said:

It kind of dispels the whole "bean sprouts and water" myth.

It also dispels the "healthier-than-meat" myth.

<snip

usual suspect <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:<[email hidden]>...

Quoted message said:

What's rich or nutritious about fried pickles? :-)

(sorry if this goes up twice, the first time I tried to send it, it didn't seem to work.)

I don't know if fried pickles are "delicious" or not because I haven't tried them, but I was talking
more about the recipes in general.

Quoted message said:

It also dispels the "healthier-than-meat" myth.

At least none of the recipes have any cholesterol (which only comes in animal products), but you're
right that fried and sugary food generally isn't healthy.

-Rubystars

Rubystars said:

Quoted message said:

What's rich or nutritious about fried pickles? :-)

(sorry if this goes up twice, the first time I tried to send it, it didn't seem to work.)

Didn't seem to work on my end, either. Only got it once. ;-)

Quoted message said:

I don't know if fried pickles are "delicious" or not because I haven't tried them, but I was
talking more about the recipes in general.

I meant delicious, sorry.

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

It also dispels the "healthier-than-meat" myth.

At least none of the recipes have any cholesterol (which only comes in animal products), but
you're right that fried and sugary food generally isn't healthy.

Cholesterol from food doesn't have a direct link to *serum* cholesterol levels. The more important
culprits in raising serum LDL (the bad cholesterol) are saturated fats and transfats, regardless of
their source.

It's true that much of the fat from animal-based foods is saturated. Many vegetable oils and related
products are also saturated naturally or artificially (hydrogenation). Many of the recipes offered
on afv call for margarine, which usually contains saturated fats and/or transfats. This is one of my
chief complaints. It makes no difference if one avoids the cholesterol found in animal products if
one's diet *still* contains saturated fats. Those sat-fats and trans-fats will elevate one's
cholesterol levels whether one eats animal foods or not.

Unsaturated fats, be they from vegetable oils like olive or canola or from animal fats like the
healthy ones found in oily fish like salmon, elevate HDL (good cholesterol) which helps transport
and reduce LDL. Fiber is also beneficial in controlling LDL levels. The distinction on controlling
cholesterol, specifically LDL, should be on dietary fats, not on dietary cholesterol.

In general, saturated fats tend to raise the serum-cholesterol level, while unsaturated fats
and fiber tend to lower the serum-cholesterol level. Therefore, it is prudent to lower one’s
intake of saturated fat, use your fat allowance primarily for unsaturated fats, and eat more
high-fiber foods. Foods which contain saturated fat, unsaturated fat, or fiber may or may
not contain cholesterol. unm.educholesterol.htmlOpen ↗

Also, meat DOES contain many vitamins and minerals, some of which are deficient or missing in a veg-
n diet. Eating fish and lean cuts is much healthier than consuming foods with hydrogenated oils or
naturally saturated vegetable oils.

I haven't even gotten to the role simple carbohydrates (especially in connection with fats!) play in
elevating serum triglyceride levels. Many of the afv recipes are abysmally unhealthy, and should be
eaten only on rare, special occasions.

usual suspect <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:<[email hidden]>... <snip>

Quoted message said:

It's true that much of the fat from animal-based foods is saturated. Many vegetable oils and
related products are also saturated naturally or artificially (hydrogenation). Many of the recipes
offered on afv call for margarine, which usually contains saturated fats and/or transfats.

I like to use a margarine called Smart Balance. (It's not vegan, if anyone is reading this and
wondering, but it tastes good and isn't hydrogenated.)

Quoted message said:

This is one of my chief complaints. It makes no difference if one avoids the cholesterol found in
animal products if one's diet *still* contains saturated fats. Those sat-fats and trans-fats will
elevate one's cholesterol levels whether one eats animal foods or not.

Thanks for the info! I knew the "Bad fats" were bad for people but I wasn't sure what they
did, exactly.

Quoted message said:

Unsaturated fats, be they from vegetable oils like olive or canola or from animal fats like the
healthy ones found in oily fish like salmon, elevate HDL (good cholesterol) which helps transport
and reduce LDL. Fiber is also beneficial in controlling LDL levels. The distinction on controlling
cholesterol, specifically LDL, should be on dietary fats, not on dietary cholesterol.

Both probably play their part though, even if one is more important than the other.

<snip>

Quoted message said:

Also, meat DOES contain many vitamins and minerals, some of which are deficient or missing in a
veg-n diet. Eating fish and lean cuts is much healthier than consuming foods with hydrogenated
oils or naturally saturated vegetable oils.

I think there's probably ways to get the vitamins and minerals in a vegan diet but I can understand
why it would be more of a challenge to get some of them.

I always found it strange that some of the most nutritious meats as far as some of the vitamins and
minerals go, the organ meats, like liver, are packed full of cholesterol and other stuff that's not
so good. But I do know that lean meats can be highly nutritious as well.

Quoted message said:

I haven't even gotten to the role simple carbohydrates (especially in connection with fats!) play
in elevating serum triglyceride levels. Many of the afv recipes are abysmally unhealthy, and
should be eaten only on rare, special occasions.

Maybe that's what they're meant for. That's kind of what I always viewed them as. Just a way to show
a vegan diet doesn't necessarily exclude "Everything that tastes good."

I found some books at the local library that had some delicious looking recipes that were a lot
healthier, but most of what I see here does tend to be more holiday food, or special treat food. 🙂
Those are important too! Especially if they have guests over who might think if they eat over at
this person's house that they'll end up eatting like rabbits all the time.

-Rubystars

Rubystars wrote: <snip>

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

This is one of my chief complaints. It makes no difference if one avoids the cholesterol found in
animal products if one's diet *still* contains saturated fats. Those sat-fats and trans-fats will
elevate one's cholesterol levels whether one eats animal foods or not.

Thanks for the info! I knew the "Bad fats" were bad for people but I wasn't sure what they did,
exactly.

You're welcome.

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Unsaturated fats, be they from vegetable oils like olive or canola or from animal fats like the
healthy ones found in oily fish like salmon, elevate HDL (good cholesterol) which helps transport
and reduce LDL. Fiber is also beneficial in controlling LDL levels. The distinction on controlling
cholesterol, specifically LDL, should be on dietary fats, not on dietary cholesterol.

Both probably play their part though, even if one is more important than the other.

Actually, the overwhelming majority of cholesterol in your body is endogenous -- meaning, it's made
within your own body. Dietary cholesterol in and of itself is meaningless for all but extreme cases
of hypercholesterolemia. Consider that fish and seafood are quite high in cholesterol, yet allowed
for most heart patients and people with hypercholesterolemia. The omega-3 fatty acids and other fats
(especially in cold water fish) are very beneficial. Fish has no impact on serum LDL levels and
raises HDL levels. Research has also led scientists to reconsider eggs (and their yolks) and the
issue of serum cholesterol.

The link, though, between saturated fat consumption and serum LDL is very well documented. It
applies as much to vegetarians as meat eaters. It makes no difference if the saturation is natural
or from hydrogenation (transfats), but research does show that transfats cause LDL to rise more
sharply than animal fats. This is because not all animal fats are saturated; and the ones that
aren't saturated are actually pretty good for you. Hydrogenation is just plain unhealthy, so you
should avoid anything that has hydrogenated (even partially) oils if you want to keep your LDL
controllable.

A couple more points about specific meats and fats. Grass-fed beef has less saturated fat than grain-
fed. Grass-fed also is high in omega-3 FAs. So is wild game. Like fish, consumption of these foods
is healthy enough even for heart patients.

Quoted message said:

<snip>

Quoted message said:

Also, meat DOES contain many vitamins and minerals, some of which are deficient or missing in a
veg-n diet. Eating fish and lean cuts is much healthier than consuming foods with hydrogenated
oils or naturally saturated vegetable oils.

I think there's probably ways to get the vitamins and minerals in a vegan diet but I can
understand why it would be more of a challenge to get some of them.

As one person of questionable authority (nice way of saying that he's a complete kook) suggested,
not washing produce and eating it raw will provide some B12. Personally, I'd prefer to get my B12
from another source than bird, animal, or insect droppings.

Quoted message said:

I always found it strange that some of the most nutritious meats as far as some of the vitamins
and minerals go, the organ meats, like liver, are packed full of cholesterol and other stuff
that's not so good. But I do know that lean meats can be highly nutritious as well.

Ugh. Dietary cholesterol isn't so much an issue as saturated fat. Organ meats are high in fat,
but most people who eat them usually eat them in moderation anyway. Consider that 100 grams
(~1/4 lb) of raw beef liver contains less than 4 grams of fat, and 1.5 grams are saturated.
About 25% of the calories are from fat -- of course, that rises in relation to the amount of oil
in which it's cooked. It contains 1312.9% of a female's RDA of Vitamin A, 3459.5% of the same's
B12, 45.5% of Iron,
152.4% of B5 (pantothenic acid), and all essential amino acids. The cholesterol is over 100% of a
daily limit, but the saturated fat is below 10% for men and women for recommended daily limit.

Rest of liver data: tinyurl.comugx7Open ↗

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

I haven't even gotten to the role simple carbohydrates (especially in connection with fats!) play
in elevating serum triglyceride levels. Many of the afv recipes are abysmally unhealthy, and
should be eaten only on rare, special occasions.

Maybe that's what they're meant for. That's kind of what I always viewed them as. Just a way to
show a vegan diet doesn't necessarily exclude "Everything that tastes good."

If that's truly the case, healthy and tasty recipes would be nice to see as well to show that vegans
don't only live it up on holidays and such.

Quoted message said:

I found some books at the local library that had some delicious looking recipes that were a lot
healthier, but most of what I see here does tend to be more holiday food, or special treat food.
🙂 Those are important too! Especially if they have guests over who might think if they eat over
at this person's house that they'll end up eatting like rabbits all the time.

If they're serving deep fried and sugary vegan foods, they'd be alot healthier eating rabbits than
eating LIKE them:

Raw wild rabbit Mean value per 100.00 grams edible part; 0.0% refuse Portions: 1 OZ = 28.00 gm, 1 LB
= 453.60 gm
153.% Cals from fat, 81.0% Cals from protein, 0.0% Cals from carbs.

Male Female Name Unit Amount %RDA %RDA Food energy
KCal: 114.000 3.9% 5.2% Protein Gms : 21.790 34.6%
43.6% Total lipid (fat) Gms : 2.320 2.4% 3.2%
Carbohydrate, by diff. Gms : 0.000 0.0% 0.0% Total
saturated fat Gms : 0.690 2.1% 2.8%

rest of data: tinyurl.comugxfOpen ↗

usual suspect <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:<[email hidden]>... <snip>

Quoted message said:

The link, though, between saturated fat consumption and serum LDL is very well documented. It
applies as much to vegetarians as meat eaters. It makes no difference if the saturation is natural
or from hydrogenation (transfats), but research does show that transfats cause LDL to rise more
sharply than animal fats. This is because not all animal fats are saturated; and the ones that
aren't saturated are actually pretty good for you.

Yeah, salmon is my favorite meat. 🙂 I'm glad that it's so good for people.

Smoked salmon is so good. 🙂Raw salmon sushi has a smooth almost buttery flavor (though I heard it
has a high risk of parasites, like anisakiasis) Salmon cakes are fried so they're probably not all
that healthy but they sure do taste good. 🙂

Quoted message said:

Hydrogenation is just plain unhealthy, so you should avoid anything that has hydrogenated (even
partially) oils if you want to keep your LDL controllable.

Yeah the bad thing about that is, it's hard to find any crackers that don't have hydrogenated oil in
them. I wish that was different. I wish peanut butter didn't have hydrogenated oil either. I've been
trying to avoid hydrogenated oils though as much as I can.

Quoted message said:

A couple more points about specific meats and fats. Grass-fed beef has less saturated fat than grain-
fed. Grass-fed also is high in omega-3 FAs. So is wild game. Like fish, consumption of these foods
is healthy enough even for heart patients.

People have to make sure wild game is well cooked though because of the risk of trichina.

<snip>

Quoted message said:

As one person of questionable authority (nice way of saying that he's a complete kook) suggested,
not washing produce and eating it raw will provide some B12. Personally, I'd prefer to get my B12
from another source than bird, animal, or insect droppings.

I always wash my produce really well just in case "natural fertilizer" was used. I think they can
get B12 from fortified soy milk and cereals and Red Star nutritional yeast, as well as supplements.

I think vegetarians have a big advantage over vegans in this particular issue though, because they
can eat eggs and drink milk, which will help them a lot as far as getting different nutrients.

<snip>

Every year at thanksgiving and Christmas I have some cornbread stuffing which has giblets in it.
Turkey hearts are part of that. I wonder if that does more harm than good? I don't expect that to be
healthy but it sure does taste good. 🙂

I also like chicken livers sometimes.

Of course, I don't eat those foods except every once in a while. I think the last time I ate any
organ meats was last Christmas in the stuffing.

Quoted message said:

If that's truly the case, healthy and tasty recipes would be nice to see as well to show that
vegans don't only live it up on holidays and such.

I'd personally like to see more healthy recipes because I'm trying to lose weight and I want to be
healthier. That's the main reason I came to this group to begin with, because I was looking for some
very low fat, high nutrient recipes. It didn't turn out that way directly from the group, but some
of the links people have put up have helped me find some.

I enjoy eating vegan and vegetarian dishes when I can find a good recipe.

Quoted message said:

If they're serving deep fried and sugary vegan foods, they'd be alot healthier eating rabbits than
eating LIKE them:

I don't think I'd eat a rabbit unless I needed to. They're too cute to eat. 🙁

-Rubystars

Rubystars said:

Yeah, salmon is my favorite meat. 🙂 I'm glad that it's so good for people.

Smoked salmon is so good. 🙂Raw salmon sushi has a smooth almost buttery flavor (though I heard it
has a high risk of parasites, like anisakiasis) Salmon cakes are fried so they're probably not all
that healthy but they sure do taste good. 🙂

The risks are minimal, and really apply to farmed salmon. The dangers of parasites (ciguatera) from
reef fish (barracuda, etc.) are much, much more significant.

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Hydrogenation is just plain unhealthy, so you should avoid anything that has hydrogenated (even
partially) oils if you want to keep your LDL controllable.

Yeah the bad thing about that is, it's hard to find any crackers that don't have hydrogenated oil
in them. I wish that was different.

Try the Nature's Harvest at the HEB on Westheimer (near Kirkwood), Whole Foods, Sandy's (Katy
Freeway), or Central Market. Brands like Hain's have no hydrogenated oils. You might also like Ak-
Mak crackers (really flat bread) which have *some* butter, but not enough to be unhealthy.

Quoted message said:

I wish peanut butter didn't have hydrogenated oil either. I've been trying to avoid hydrogenated
oils though as much as I can.

Get the natural peanut butter. Even normal HEB carries some natural peanut butters. Yeah, you have
to stir the oil (or drain it out!) to smoothen it, but that's a small price to pay. Oh yeah, the
natural peanut butters won't have any sugar added, either.

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

A couple more points about specific meats and fats. Grass-fed beef has less saturated fat than grain-
fed. Grass-fed also is high in omega-3 FAs. So is wild game. Like fish, consumption of these foods
is healthy enough even for heart patients.

People have to make sure wild game is well cooked though because of the risk of trichina.

Not a big issue for most people -- cook to same internal temperature as beef and chicken (165F).

Quoted message said:

I always wash my produce really well just in case "natural fertilizer" was used. I think they can
get B12 from fortified soy milk and cereals and Red Star nutritional yeast, as well as
supplements.

I think vegetarians have a big advantage over vegans in this particular issue though, because they
can eat eggs and drink milk, which will help them a lot as far as getting different nutrients.

I agree.

Quoted message said:

Every year at thanksgiving and Christmas I have some cornbread stuffing which has giblets in it.
Turkey hearts are part of that. I wonder if that does more harm than good? I don't expect that to
be healthy but it sure does taste good. 🙂

If you don't eat too much of it, it's probably fine. Most people have a lot more cornbread than
giblets, so I wouldn't worry.

Quoted message said:

I also like chicken livers sometimes.

My favorite use for chicken livers was for catfish bait.

Quoted message said:

Of course, I don't eat those foods except every once in a while. I think the last time I ate any
organ meats was last Christmas in the stuffing.

Once in a while, no problem. Everything in moderation...

Quoted message said:

I'd personally like to see more healthy recipes because I'm trying to lose weight and I want to be
healthier. That's the main reason I came to this group to begin with, because I was looking for
some very low fat, high nutrient recipes. It didn't turn out that way directly from the group, but
some of the links people have put up have helped me find some.

That's good, and I applaud your efforts to be healthy. I know it can be difficult with the presence
of sugar and fat and other stuff in the "most available" foods, but you *can* wean yourself and find
healthier alternatives if you look.

<snip>

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

If they're serving deep fried and sugary vegan foods, they'd be alot healthier eating rabbits than
eating LIKE them:

I don't think I'd eat a rabbit unless I needed to. They're too cute to eat. 🙁

They're not so cute when they're dead and skinned. Looks like chicken. Tastes like chicken, too.
tinyurl.comummjOpen ↗

While frolicking around in alt.food.vegan, Rubystars of

url='http://groups.google.com/'http://groups.google.com/url said:

I think vegetarians have a big advantage over vegans in this particular issue though, because they
can eat eggs and drink milk, which will help them a lot as far as getting different nutrients.

I'm lactose intolerant, so dairy products would make me ill. I don't think that anyone would
disagree that this makes it a good idea for me to avoid dairy products, and I'm not going to give up
on my Marmite sandwiches, so margarine is my only choice.

As long as I'm not medically overweight, I don't see what makes that other people's business.
Cosmetically, I would look better a bit lighter, but medically speaking I'm within the range of
normal weight, so people should really mind their own business with that.
--
Nikitta a.a. #1759 Apatriot(No, not apricot)#18 ICQ# 251532856 Unreferenced footnotes: nut.house.cxcgiOpen ↗
bin/nemwiki.pl?ISFN "It's a beer, not a gymnastics event!" Fred Stone (a.a)