Frequently Asked Questions about Mountain Biking

"Mike Vandeman" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
"]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Frequently Asked Questions about Mountain Biking Michael
Vandeman, Ph.D. March 5, 2004

You get the troll of the year awards, you LIAR. Here is
your prize

****PLONK****

vandeman is grade A plonk material. classic I know many
MTB fans who walk as much as they ride.. what is this kid
on about ?

"Jason" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
"]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

"Mike Vandeman" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
"]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Frequently Asked Questions about Mountain Biking Michael
Vandeman, Ph.D. March 5, 2004

You get the troll of the year awards, you LIAR. Here is
your prize

****PLONK****

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

You get the troll of the year awards, you LIAR. Here is
your prize

****PLONK****

I second that *Plonk*

On Tue, 22 Jun 2004 13:16:08 -0500, "Jason" <[email hidden]> wrote:

. ."Mike Vandeman" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
."]news:[email hidden]... .>
Frequently Asked Questions about Mountain Biking .> Michael
Vandeman, Ph.D. .> March 5, 2004 .> . .You get the troll of
the year awards, you LIAR. Here is your prize .
.****PLONK****

And I should care because ... ?
===
I am working on creating wildlife habitat that is off-limits
to humans ("pure habitat"😉. Want to help? (I spent the
previous 8 years fighting auto dependence and road
construction.)

home.pacbell.netmjvandeOpen ↗

Preface: Having read many of Mr. Vandemans posts I think I can say with a degree of confidence that his posts are rhetorical in nature and not really intent on generating dialog. I also realize he's not likely interested in the opposing position. I further realize that I'm likely wasting key strokes at the present. With that said I have a few comments.

Regarding the 'why'?
Mr. Vandeman failed to mention the two main reasons why people mountainbike and why the sport is catching on, namely fun and great exercise?

Mountain biking for many is an extremely enjoyable activity in which to partake. That Mr. Vandeman does not understand why it is such fun is irrelevant. I need not understand why people enjoy riding horses, but that does not mean that I do not understand that people do enjoy riding horses. My ignorance of their proclivities does not justify my demonization of their lifestyle.

Further, mountainbiking is excellent exercise for both hand/foot & eye coordination and ones cardiovascular system. It is also less impacting on ones knees, hips, and feet than running. To provide example, if anecdotal, I cannot jog as my knee will ache if I do so more than once per week. I can however ride my bicycle (road or mountain) several times per week without experiencing any physical malady.

Also one must consider that some people cannot be motivated to jog or run or even hike, being that personal tastes are widely varied in pursuits of exercise.

Regarding the destruction...
Sure, mountainbiking is more destructive than walking, but is less destructive than horseback riding. Having said that, if you are loath to accept mountainbiking due to its adverse effect on nature, why would you accept hiking as an alternative as hiking creates trails and destroys vegetation thus harming habitat?

Truly if conservation is your priority then only the most acceptable policy would have to be avoidance of nature entirely.

If you do not advocate utter human exclusion for nature then it all becomes various shades of gray as far as what is considered acceptable or sustainable conservation. Mr. Vandeman is in the extreme minority in his preview of what is acceptable, and as his letter suggest the majority opinion generally drives legislation, which is why mountainbiking is a sustained activity with a variety of locations in which to enjoy our sport.

Closing commentary...

Mr. Vandeman clearly has much time to post rhetorical diatribes on the injustices of mountainbiking to the internet all day. He clearly has the will to at least present an argument to support his position. What perplexes me is that with his purported education and self professed intelligence, why does he not see that a position of 'zero tolerance' is doomed to failure. He would probably do much more for the environment it he, rather than crusading to end the sport of mountainbiking, attempted to instruct us on environmental friendly policies to employ when mountain biking.

He may also want to reconsider how he conveys his message. Except for those who are attending a church service, very few people are willing to consider a message when it is preached to them. Self righteousness never sold anything.

Joz says:

Quoted message said:

I further realize that I'm likely wasting key strokes at
the present.

Yes.

But we all indulge at some time or another. Just try to
keep it short, and use small words so he can understand
what you write.

Steve

Quoted message said:

But we all indulge at some time or another. Just try to
keep it short,

and use

Quoted message said:

small words so he can understand what you write.

Are four-letter words about the right size?

Stephen Baker said:

cc says:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Are four-letter words about the right size?

Quoted message said:

Yes, technically - but he'll only accuse you of abusive
behaviour, and your email/post will be posted on more
groups and forums and private emails to others than you
want to know about. It's more fun to stay polite and let
him be the ill-mannered lout.

Quoted message said:

Steve

Perh aps cc mean t that we shou ld split word s into
four lett er chunk s to enab le Mike to bett er unde
rsta nd rath er than just bein g rude? 🙂
--
Tim. /\ /\ O___O
=\__|__/= meow.
U

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Perh aps cc mean t that we shou ld split word s into four lett
er chunk s to enab le Mike to bett er unde rsta nd rath er than just
bein g rude? 🙂

yesm aybe that woul dbet heri ghtt hing todo. ButI 'mnot
abso lute lysu

reif

Quoted message said:

anyo neel seco uldu nder stan dit.

Ithi nkit 'ssw eet

cc

I just returned from the Grand Canyon. Erosion is a good
thing. What a beauty.

"Mike Vandeman" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
"]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Frequently Asked Questions about Mountain Biking Michael
Vandeman, Ph.D. March 5, 2004

1. Why do people mountain bike?
a. They say that using a bike allows them to get much
farther, in the same amount of time, than they can by
walking. They also maintain constant

pressure

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on land managers, to open more and more trails to bikes.
Of course, all of

these

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trails are already open to them, if they choose to walk.
They also

frequently

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claim that closing trails to bikes "excludes" them from
the parks. This

could

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only be true if they were unable to walk. Of course, they
are able to

walk.

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There's nothing inherently wrong with bicycling instead of
walking; we all

like

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to save energy, when it's appropriate. Use of a bicycle
to replace

automobile

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use is obviously beneficial. However, by the same token,
replacing hiking

with

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mountain biking is obviously not beneficial.
b. They are interested in the quantity of nature they can
see, rather than

the

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quality of their experience. While riding a bike,
especially over terrain

as

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rough as a trail, one has to be constantly paying
attention to not

crashing.

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That make it almost impossible to notice much else. By
contrast, a hiker

feels

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the ground, hears all the sounds and smells all the odors
of nature and

can stop

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instantly, if he/she finds something interesting. The
brain thrives on stimulation. A biker has to travel
several times as far as a hiker, to get

the

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same stimulation as a hiker. (And, by the same token,
motorcyclists have

to

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travel several times as far as a bicyclist, and an auto
user several times

as

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far as a motorcyclist, since they are enclosed in a
metal box.)
c. They are interested in thrills. Riding a bike on a
trail, especially a

trail

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containing many obstacles, or a trail one is not familiar
with, is very challenging. (But if mountain biking is the
high point of your week, as it

seems

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to be for many mountain bikers, you must be leading a
pretty dull life,

off of

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the bike!)
d. They are interested in building mountain biking skills
and competing

with

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other mountain bikers. The thrill of racing drives people
to spend more

money on

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their bike, and ride it harder and more often. Racing, up
to and including

the

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Olympics, drives a lot of mountain biking. Of course, it
is also extremely harmful to the parks and natural areas
that are used for practice! It is

hard to

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think of any other (legal) use of public lands, other than
hunting, that

is as

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harmful as mountain biking.

2. What is driving the sport of mountain biking? Besides
the attraction

for

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participants, manufacturers and retailers of mountain
bikes and mountain

biking

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accessories, as well as "adventure" travel guides, make a
lot of money

from

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promoting mountain biking. Even some auto manufacturers
(e.g. Subaru)

promote

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and sponsor mountain biking, and try to use its popularity
to sell more

cars.

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The tourism industry also promotes mountain biking,
among other

attractions.

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3. What harm does mountain biking do?
a. Most obvious is the acceleration of erosion. Knobby
tires rip into the

soil,

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loosening it and allowing rain to wash it away. They also
create V-shaped grooves that make walking difficult or
even dangerous. The mechanical

advantage

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given by the gears and ball bearings allow a mountain
biker to travel

several

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times as fast as a hiker. Given their increased weight
(rider plus bike),

this

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results in vastly increased momentum, and hence much
greater horizontal (shearing) forces on the soil. (Witness
the skid marks from stops, starts,

and

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turns.) According to Newton, every action has an equal and
opposite

reaction.

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Mountain bikes were built much stronger than other bikes,
so that they

could

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withstand the greater forces they were subject to on rough
trails. These

same

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forces, therefore, are being applied to the trails! To
give a definite

number,

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the winner of a 20-mile race here in Briones Regional Park
averaged 13 MPH

(the

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speed limit is 15 MPH -- where were the park rangers?).
b. A hiker must be very careful not to accidentally step
on small animals

and

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plants on the trail. For a mountain biker, it is almost
impossible to

avoid

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killing countless animals and plants on and under the
trail. They have to

pay

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attention to controlling the bike, and can't afford to
look carefully at

what is

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on the trail, especially when travelling fast. And even if
they happen to

see,

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for example, a snake, it is hard for them to stop in time
to avoid killing

it. A

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hiker, when crossing a creek, will try to avoid getting
wet, by crossing

on

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stepping stones or logs. Mountain bikers, on the other
hand, simply ride

right

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through the creek bed, crushing any animals or plants that
happen to be

there.

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Mountain biking magazines are full of photos of mountain
bikers throwing

up

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spray, as they barrel through creeks. Not only do bikes
destroy animals

and

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plants as they ride across streams, they ride through
streams stirring up sediment. The sediment in the water
interferes with the oxygen uptake by

aquatic

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life, for example, killing fish- and frog eggs. Young
fish, insects,

amphibians,

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and aquatic microorganisms are extremely sensitive to
sediment in water.
c. Bikes also allow people to travel several times as far
as a hiker. This translates into several times the
impacts, both on the trail and on the

wildlife

Quoted message said:

(to say nothing of the other trail users). Existing
parklands are already inadequate to protect the wildlife
that live there. When they are

crisscrossed

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by mountain bikers and legal or illegal trails, their
habitat becomes even

more

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inadequate. Mountain bikers frequently advertise rides of
20-50 miles or

more.

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Have you ever tried to walk that far in a day? In other
words, allowing

bikes in

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a park greatly increases human presence in that park and
drives wildlife

further

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from the resources that they need to survive, including
water, food, and

mates.

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d. Due to their width and speed, bikes can't safely pass
each other on

narrow

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trails. Therefore, policies that permit mountain biking
also result in

more

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habitat destruction, as trails are widened by bikers (or
by hikers and equestrians jumping out of their way).
e. Knobby mountain bike tires are ideal for carrying mud,
and consequently exotic plants, fungi, and other
organisms from place to place, resulting

in the

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spread of exotic invasive species, such as weeds and
Sudden Oak Death.
f. Mountain biking is driving the very young and old off
of the trails and

hence

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out of the parks. Even able-bodied hikers and equestrians
fear for their

safety,

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and don't enjoy sharing the trails with bikes. (The
mountain bikers claim

that

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they are simply being selfish and "unwilling to share",
but actually they

have

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no problem sharing trails with mountain bikers; it is only
their bikes

that are

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a problem!)
g. Mountain bikes, which are obviously built to go
anywhere, teach

children and

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anyone else who sees them that the rough treatment of
nature is

acceptable. This

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undoubtedly has a negative effect on people's treatment
of nature.
h. In order to mitigate bike-caused erosion, park managers
have been

resorting

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to extreme measures -- even in some cases putting a
plastic matrix or

other

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exotic material under the trail (e.g. in Pleasanton Ridge
Regional

Preserve,

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near Pleasanton, California)! It's hard to imagine that
this will have a beneficial effect on the park and its
wildlife..
i. Allowing mountain bikes in a park greatly increases the
damage to the

trails,

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damage from "bootleg" (illegally created) trails, and the
problems of

conflicts

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between trail users, and hence the cost of maintaining
the park.

Considering how

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tight park budgets are, we can't afford the extra costs of
policing, and repairing the damage from, mountain biking.

4. Mountain bikers claim that their sport has no greater
environmental

impact

Quoted message said:

than hiking. Is that true? If you read the "studies" that
make that claim,

you

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find that they don't really compare the impacts of hiking
and mountain

biking,

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but only the impacts per foot. If, for a moment, we assume
that the

studies are

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correct in their having equivalent impacts per foot, it
would still follow

that

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mountain biking has far greater impact per person, since
mountain bikers typically travel so much farther than
hikers. Besides overlooking

distances

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travelled, those "studies" almost all ignore impacts on
wildlife. And they

don't

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study mountain biking under normal conditions -- only at a
very slow

speed.

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Actually, the comparison with hiking is irrelevant. It
would only be

relevant if

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we planned to allow only one of the two, and were
considering which of the

two

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is more harmful. In fact, no one is considering banning
hiking. We are

only

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considering adding mountain biking. Therefore, the only
relevant question

is,

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"Is mountain biking harmful"? (Of course, it is!) There is
only one truly scientific study that I know of that
compares the impacts of hiking and mountain biking. It
found that mountain biking has a greater impact on elk

than

Quoted message said:

hiking (Wisdom, M. J., H. K. Preisler, N. J. Cimon, B. K.
Johnson. 2004.

Effects

Quoted message said:

of Off-Road Recreation on Mule Deer and Elk. Transactions
of the North

American

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Wildlife and Natural Resource Conference 69: in press.
Wisdom et al. 2).

5. Where should mountain biking allowed? A couple of role
models for

wildlife

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protection are Yosemite National Park and East Bay
Municipal Utility

District

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(in Alameda and Contra Costa counties, California). They
both restrict

bicycles

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to paved roads, where they can't do much harm. Somehow
bicyclists have

managed

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to enjoy their sport for over a hundred years, without
riding off-road.

6. What should the policy be on trails? Closed to bikes,
unless marked

open.

Quoted message said:

Signs that say "No Bikes" are quickly and repeatedly
ripped out of the

ground by

Quoted message said:

mountain bikers.

7. Isn't it discriminatory to allow hikers and
equestrians on trails, but

not

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mountain bikers? Mountain bikers love to say this,
apparently because they

think

Quoted message said:

it will gain them some sympathy. The truth is that
mountain bikers have

exactly

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the same access to trails that everyone else has! It is
only their bikes

that

Quoted message said:

are banned. If mountain bikers were really being
discriminated against,

they

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could easily go to court to gain access. However . they
already have

access to

Quoted message said:

every trail in the world!

8. Don't I have a right to mountain bike on all public
lands? I am a

taxpayer!

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The public has the right, through its elected
representatives, to restrict

how

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land is used. A federal court has already ruled that there
is no right to mountain bike. It is a privilege, and any
land manager who gives a good

reason

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(such as safety or protecting the environment) can keep
bikes off of

trails (see

Quoted message said:

home.pacbell.netmtb10.htmOpen ↗).

9. Don't mountain bikers do some good things, like trail
construction and

trail

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maintenance? Trail construction destroys wildlife habitat
both directly

(by

Quoted message said:

killing plants and animals) and indirectly (by reducing
the size of the intervening "islands" of habitat).
Moreover, mountain bikers favor trails

that

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are "twisty" (sinuous), bumpy, and full of obstacles that
provide thrills

for

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mountain bikers. Such designs increase habitat destruction
(by lengthening

the

Quoted message said:

trail) and make the trails less useful for hikers and
equestrians. Trail maintenance sounds good, until you
realize that it would hardly be

necessary, if

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bikes weren't allowed there. The mountain bikers are the
main reason why

trail

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maintenance is necessary! Trails used only by hikers
require hardly any maintenance. Therefore, admitting
bicycles to a park greatly increases its

cost

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of maintenance. Nothing is really "free", including trail
construction and maintenance. (How does the saying go?
"Beware of Trojans bearing gifts"?)

10. But don't mountain bikers provide added safety, by
being able to

quickly

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summon help in the event of an emergency? I would rather
trust in a cell

phone,

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than a speeding mountain biker. Besides, natural areas are
already one of

the

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safest places you can be. In over 50 years of hiking and
backpacking, I

have

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never witnessed any situation requiring emergency aid.
Most people go to

natural

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areas partly for solitude. If we wanted to be around
large, fast-moving

pieces

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of machinery, we would stay in the city!

===
I am working on creating wildlife habitat that is off-
limits to humans ("pure habitat"😉. Want to help? (I spent
the previous 8 years fighting auto dependence and road
construction.)

home.pacbell.netmjvandeOpen ↗

"cc" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
"]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Perh aps cc mean t that we shou ld split word s into
four lett er chunk s to enab le Mike to bett er unde
rsta nd rath er than just bein g rude? 🙂

yesm aybe that woul dbet heri ghtt hing todo. ButI 'mnot
abso lute lysu

reif

Quoted message said:

anyo neel seco uldu nder stan dit.

Ithi nkit 'ssw eet

cc

Wait arew ecou ntin gpun ctua tion ?

"Tim Izod" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
"]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Stephen Baker said:

cc says:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Are four-letter words about the right size?

Quoted message said:

Yes, technically - but he'll only accuse you of abusive
behaviour, and

your

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

email/post will be posted on more groups and forums and
private emails

to

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

others than you want to know about. It's more fun to
stay polite and let him be the ill-mannered lout.

Quoted message said:

Steve

Perh aps cc mean t that we shou ld split word s into four
lett er chunk s to enab le Mike to bett er unde rsta nd
rath er than just bein g rude? 🙂
--
Tim. /\ /\ O___O
=\__|__/= meow.
U

Tim,

I believe what cc meant is that using four letter "profane"
words might encourage others to read and thus insight
interest in the message you are trying to convey because it
adds a little "color". I failed to sense the rude nature you
are refering to.

peace out,

mr

"mr" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
"]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

"Tim Izod" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:2jvinnF164jamU1@uni-
berlin.de...

Quoted message said:

Stephen Baker said:

cc says:

Quoted message said:

>Are four-letter words about the right size?
>

Quoted message said:

Yes, technically - but he'll only accuse you of
abusive behaviour, and

your

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

email/post will be posted on more groups and forums
and private emails

to

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

others than you want to know about. It's more fun to
stay polite and let him be the ill-mannered lout.

Quoted message said:

Steve

Perh aps cc mean t that we shou ld split word s into
four lett er chunk s to enab le Mike to bett er unde
rsta nd rath er than just bein g rude? 🙂
--
Tim. /\ /\ O___O
=\__|__/= meow.
U

Tim,

I believe what cc meant is that using four letter
"profane" words might encourage others to read and thus
insight interest in the message you are trying to convey
because it adds a little "color". I failed to sense the
rude nature you are refering to.

peace out,

mr

Thanks cap'n random. Remember, thick paper is better, and
don't forget to look at all the colors.

cc

"Mike Vandeman" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
"]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Frequently Asked Questions about Mountain Biking Michael
Vandeman, Ph.D. March 5, 2004

So mountain bikers are responsible for the extinction of the
Dinosaurs right Mike? You do realize when you roll over in
bed, you are KILLING lots of dust mites and other animals
don't you?

A.S.

In article <[email hidden]>,

Mike Vandeman said:

1. Why do people mountain bike?

Now that's a question worth discussing!

There are as many reasons as there are mountain bikers. Some
do it for the exercise, some for the scenery, some just
enjoy being outdoors on a bike. Some enjoy the challenge of
a hard climb. Others get an adrenaline rush from riding
downhill. To some it's a comptetitive sport. To others it's
simply recreation. Some pride themselves on finesse--
"cleaning" a section of trail without putting a foot down.
Others take pride in getting through the same section with
out falling down.

For some, it's the company and cameraderie of other riders.
For others, it's all about silence and solitude. Some
mountain bikers ride without stopping and stay focused on
the trail. Others carry binoculars or cameras, stopping
frequently to watch birds or photograph wildlife.

We are often passionate about riding and protective about
the trails we ride. We love them no less than those who
travel by foot or horse. We don't want our trails turned
into housing developments or golf courses.

If you want to know why people mountain bike, don't ask a
failed academic who can barely ride a bike. Ask the people
who are out there riding!

Gary "Trekkie Dad" Colburn, Master of Music, teacher to
hundreds (if not thousands) of children over the past 32
years, respected colleague, dedicated "roadie", and
occasional mountain biker.

--
[email hidden] World Without Cars Dictionary of
Vandemisms (2001) is available at:
trekkiedad.freeservers.comwwc.htmlOpen ↗ ICQ# available
on request

TD says:

Quoted message said:

Others take pride in getting through the same section with
out falling down.

And the rest of us mortals just enjoy the fall if we
have it, get back up and keep riding (if we can),
instead of complaining to the world about how
"incomfortable" the ride was.

;-)

Steve

Masterfully said, Trekkie Dad.

On Fri, 25 Jun 2004 07:01:23 GMT, Trekkie Dad <[email hidden]> wrote:

.In article <[email hidden]>,
. Mike Vandeman <[email hidden]> wrote: . .> 1. Why do
people mountain bike? . .Now that's a question worth
discussing! . .There are as many reasons as there are
mountain bikers. Some do it for .the exercise, some for
the scenery, some just enjoy being outdoors on a .bike.
Some enjoy the challenge of a hard climb. Others get an
adrenaline .rush from riding downhill. To some it's a
comptetitive sport. To others .it's simply recreation.
Some pride themselves on finesse--"cleaning" a .section of
trail without putting a foot down. Others take pride in
.getting through the same section with out falling down. .
.For some, it's the company and cameraderie of other
riders. For others, .it's all about silence and solitude.
Some mountain bikers ride without .stopping and stay
focused on the trail. Others carry binoculars or .cameras,
stopping frequently to watch birds or photograph wildlife.
. .We are often passionate about riding and protective
about the trails we .ride. We love them no less than those
who travel by foot or horse. We .don't want our trails
turned into housing developments or golf courses. . .If
you want to know why people mountain bike, don't ask a
failed .academic who can barely ride a bike. Ask the
people who are out there .riding!

You missed the point, as usual. None of those are reasons to
use a bike, because you can get those things without one.

Now go back to sleep.

.Gary "Trekkie Dad" Colburn, Master of Music, teacher to
hundreds (if not .thousands) of children over the past 32
years, respected colleague, .dedicated "roadie", and
occasional mountain biker.

===
I am working on creating wildlife habitat that is off-limits
to humans ("pure habitat"😉. Want to help? (I spent the
previous 8 years fighting auto dependence and road
construction.)

home.pacbell.netmjvandeOpen ↗