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Frequently Asked Questions about Mountain Biking

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30 June 2006
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Mike Vandeman
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  1. Frequently Asked Questions about Mountain Biking
    Michael Vandeman, Ph.D.
    March 5, 2004

    1. Why do people mountain bike?
    a. They say that using a bike allows them to get much farther, in
    the same amount of time, than they can by walking. They also maintain
    constant pressure on land managers, to open more and more trails to
    bikes. Of course, all of these trails are already open to them, if
    they choose to walk. They also frequently claim that closing trails to
    bikes "excludes" them from the parks. This could only be true if they
    were unable to walk. Of course, they are able to walk. There's nothing
    inherently wrong with bicycling instead of walking; we all like to
    save energy, when it's appropriate. Use of a bicycle to replace
    automobile use is obviously beneficial. However, by the same token,
    replacing hiking with mountain biking is obviously not beneficial.
    b. They are interested in the quantity of nature they can see,
    rather than the quality of their experience. While riding a bike,
    especially over terrain as rough as a trail, one has to be constantly
    paying attention to not crashing. That makes it almost impossible to
    notice much else. By contrast, a hiker feels the ground, hears all the
    sounds and smells all the odors of nature and can stop instantly, if
    he/she finds something interesting. The brain thrives on stimulation.
    A biker has to travel several times as far as a hiker, to get the same
    stimulation as a hiker. (And, by the same token, motorcyclists have to
    travel several times as far as a bicyclist, and an auto user several
    times as far as a motorcyclist, since they are enclosed in a metal
    box.)
    c. They are interested in thrills. Riding a bike on a trail,
    especially a trail containing many obstacles, or a trail one is not
    familiar with, is very challenging. (But if mountain biking is the
    high point of your week, as it seems to be for many mountain bikers,
    you must be leading a pretty dull life, off of the bike!)
    d. They are interested in building mountain biking skills and
    competing with other mountain bikers. The thrill of racing drives
    people to spend more money on their bike, and ride it harder and more
    often. Racing, up to and including the Olympics, drives a lot of
    mountain biking. Of course, it is also extremely harmful to the parks
    and natural areas that are used for practice! It is hard to think of
    any other (legal) use of public lands, other than hunting, that is as
    harmful as mountain biking.

    2. What is driving the sport of mountain biking? Besides the
    attraction for participants, manufacturers and retailers of mountain
    bikes and mountain biking accessories, as well as "adventure" travel
    guides, make a lot of money from promoting mountain biking. Even some
    auto manufacturers (e.g. Subaru) promote and sponsor mountain biking,
    and try to use its popularity to sell more cars. The tourism industry
    also promotes mountain biking, among other attractions.

    3. What harm does mountain biking do?
    a. Most obvious is the acceleration of erosion. Knobby tires rip
    into the soil, loosening it and allowing rain to wash it away. They
    also create V-shaped grooves that make walking difficult or even
    dangerous. The mechanical advantage given by the gears and ball
    bearings allow a mountain biker to travel several times as fast as a
    hiker. Given their increased weight (rider plus bike), this results in
    vastly increased momentum, and hence much greater horizontal
    (shearing) forces on the soil. (Witness the skid marks from stops,
    starts, and turns.) According to Newton, every action has an equal and
    opposite reaction. Mountain bikes were built much stronger than other
    bikes, so that they could withstand the greater forces they were
    subject to on rough trails. These same forces, therefore, are being
    applied to the trails! To give a definite number, the winner of a
    20-mile race here in Briones Regional Park averaged 13 MPH (the speed
    limit is 15 MPH -- where were the park rangers?).
    b. A hiker must be very careful not to accidentally step on small
    animals and plants on the trail. For a mountain biker, it is almost
    impossible to avoid killing countless animals and plants on and under
    the trail. They have to pay attention to controlling the bike, and
    can't afford to look carefully at what is on the trail, especially
    when travelling fast. And even if they happen to see, for example, a
    snake, it is hard for them to stop in time to avoid killing it. A
    hiker, when crossing a creek, will try to avoid getting wet, by
    crossing on stepping stones or logs. Mountain bikers, on the other
    hand, simply ride right through the creek bed, crushing any animals or
    plants that happen to be there. Mountain biking magazines are full of
    photos of mountain bikers throwing up spray, as they barrel through
    creeks. Not only do bikes destroy animals and plants as they ride
    across streams, they ride through streams stirring up sediment. The
    sediment in the water interferes with the oxygen uptake by aquatic
    life, for example, killing fish- and frog eggs. Young fish, insects,
    amphibians, and aquatic microorganisms are extremely sensitive to
    sediment in water.
    c. Bikes also allow people to travel several times as far as a
    hiker. This translates into several times the impacts, both on the
    trail and on the wildlife (to say nothing of the other trail users).
    Existing parklands are already inadequate to protect the wildlife that
    live there. When they are crisscrossed by mountain bikers and legal or
    illegal trails, their habitat becomes even more inadequate. Mountain
    bikers frequently advertise rides of 20-50 miles or more. Have you
    ever tried to walk that far in a day? In other words, allowing bikes
    in a park greatly increases human presence in that park and drives
    wildlife further from the resources that they need to survive,
    including water, food, and mates.
    d. Due to their width and speed, bikes can't safely pass each
    other on narrow trails. Therefore, policies that permit mountain
    biking also result in more habitat destruction, as trails are widened
    by bikers (or by hikers and equestrians jumping out of their way).
    e. Knobby mountain bike tires are ideal for carrying mud, and
    consequently exotic plants, fungi, and other organisms from place to
    place, resulting in the spread of exotic invasive species, such as
    weeds and Sudden Oak Death.
    f. Mountain biking is driving the very young and old off of the
    trails and hence out of the parks. Even able-bodied hikers and
    equestrians fear for their safety, and don't enjoy sharing the trails
    with bikes. (The mountain bikers claim that they are simply being
    selfish and "unwilling to share", but actually they have no problem
    sharing trails with mountain bikers; it is only their bikes that are a
    problem!)
    g. Mountain bikes, which are obviously built to go anywhere,
    teach children and anyone else who sees them that the rough treatment
    of nature is acceptable. This undoubtedly has a negative effect on
    people's treatment of nature.
    h. In order to mitigate bike-caused erosion, park managers have
    been resorting to extreme measures -- even in some cases putting a
    plastic matrix or other exotic material under the trail (e.g. in
    Pleasanton Ridge Regional Preserve, near Pleasanton, California)! It's
    hard to imagine that this will have a beneficial effect on the park
    and its wildlife….
    i. Allowing mountain bikes in a park greatly increases the damage
    to the trails, damage from "bootleg" (illegally created) trails, and
    the problems of conflicts between trail users, and hence the cost of
    maintaining the park. Considering how tight park budgets are, we can't
    afford the extra costs of policing, and repairing the damage from,
    mountain biking.
    j. For the science on mountain biking and its impacts on wildlife
    and people, see http://home.pacbell.net/mjvande/scb7.htm.

    4. Mountain bikers claim that their sport has no greater environmental
    impact than hiking. Is that true? If you read the "studies" that make
    that claim, you find that they don't really compare the impacts of
    hiking and mountain biking, but only the impacts per foot. If, for a
    moment, we assume that the studies are correct in their having
    equivalent impacts per foot, it would still follow that mountain
    biking has far greater impact per person, since mountain bikers
    typically travel so much farther than hikers. Besides overlooking
    distances travelled, those "studies" almost all ignore impacts on
    wildlife. And they don't study mountain biking under normal conditions
    -- only at a very slow speed. Actually, the comparison with hiking is
    irrelevant. It would only be relevant if we planned to allow only one
    of the two, and were considering which of the two is more harmful. In
    fact, no one is considering banning hiking. We are only considering
    adding mountain biking. Therefore, the only relevant question is, "Is
    mountain biking harmful"? (Of course, it is!) There is only one truly
    scientific study that I know of that compares the impacts of hiking
    and mountain biking. It found that mountain biking has a greater
    impact on elk than hiking (Wisdom, M. J., H. K. Preisler, N. J. Cimon,
    B. K. Johnson. 2004. Effects of Off-Road Recreation on Mule Deer and
    Elk. Transactions of the North American Wildlife and Natural Resource
    Conference 69: in press.)

    5. Where should mountain biking allowed? A couple of role models for
    wildlife protection are Yosemite National Park and East Bay Municipal
    Utility District (in Alameda and Contra Costa counties, California).
    They both restrict bicycles to paved roads, where they can't do much
    harm. Somehow bicyclists have managed to enjoy their sport for over a
    hundred years, without riding off-road.

    6. What should the policy be on trails? Closed to bikes, unless marked
    open. Signs that say "No Bikes" are quickly and repeatedly ripped out
    of the ground by mountain bikers.

    7. Isn't it discriminatory to allow hikers and equestrians on trails,
    but not mountain bikers? Mountain bikers love to say this, apparently
    because they think it will gain them some sympathy. The truth is that
    mountain bikers have exactly the same access to trails that everyone
    else has! It is only their bikes that are banned. If mountain bikers
    were really being discriminated against, they could easily go to court
    to gain access. However … they already have access to every trail in
    the world!

    8. Don't I have a right to mountain bike on all public lands? I am a
    taxpayer! The public has the right, through its elected
    representatives, to restrict how land is used. A federal court has
    already ruled that there is no right to mountain bike. It is a
    privilege, and any land manager who gives a good reason (such as
    safety or protecting the environment) can keep bikes off of trails
    (see http://home.pacbell.net/mjvande/mtb10.htm).

    9. Don't mountain bikers do some good things, like trail construction
    and trail maintenance? Trail construction destroys wildlife habitat
    both directly (by killing plants and animals) and indirectly (by
    reducing the size of the intervening "islands" of habitat). Moreover,
    mountain bikers favor trails that are "twisty" (sinuous), bumpy, and
    full of obstacles that provide thrills for mountain bikers. Such
    designs increase habitat destruction (by lengthening the trail) and
    make the trails less useful for hikers and equestrians. Trail
    maintenance sounds good, until you realize that it would hardly be
    necessary, if bikes weren't allowed there. The mountain bikers are the
    main reason why trail maintenance is necessary! Trails used only by
    hikers require hardly any maintenance. Therefore, admitting bicycles
    to a park greatly increases its cost of maintenance. Nothing is really
    "free", including trail construction and maintenance. (How does the
    saying go? "Beware of Trojans bearing gifts"?)

    10. But don't mountain bikers provide added safety, by being able to
    quickly summon help in the event of an emergency? I would rather trust
    in a cell phone, than a speeding mountain biker. Besides, natural
    areas are already one of the safest places you can be. In over 50
    years of hiking and backpacking, I have never witnessed any situation
    requiring emergency aid. Most people go to natural areas partly for
    solitude. If we wanted to be around large, fast-moving pieces of
    machinery, we would stay in the city!

    11. Can't mountain biking help get our overweight kids off the couch?
    Hiking can already do that, without causing extra harm to wildlife and
    people. Mountain biking downhill provides zero exercise benefit.
    Mountain biking on level ground provides minimal exercise benefit,
    much less than walking. Since it's impossible to pay any attention to
    your surroundings while mountain biking (or you will crash), there's
    no reason to promote mountain biking. It benefits only those who stand
    to make money off of it, such as bike manufacturers, retailers, and
    tour companies.

    12. Doesn't mountain biking get people out of their cars? So do
    walking, road cycling, and transit use, without harm to the natural
    environment. Since very few mountain biking opportunities are within
    easy bicycling distance, the vast majority of mountain bike trips
    require transporting the bike in a truck, SUV, or car. If mountain
    bikers cared about the environment, they would bicycle to the park,
    lock their bike at the trailhead, and hike. Or simply bicycle on paved
    roads, as bicyclists have for the past century.

    13. Doesn't the threat from mountain biking pale, in comparison to
    other sources of environmental damage, such as logging? Maybe, and
    maybe not. Mountain biking teaches people that the rough treatment of
    nature is acceptable, so it may lead to many other abuses. In parks,
    where most mountain biking is done, it is probably the most harmful
    activity allowed. But even if mountain biking is less damaging than
    another activity, such as logging, it is still additional damage. If
    an area is already messed up (e.g. by logging), how does that make it
    okay to do additional damage? It doesn't!

    14. What's wrong with night riding? Humans have been destroying
    wildlife habitat for centuries, so that very little remains. Our
    presence in parks prevents wildlife from using a large part of their
    habitat, at least during the daytime. Now that night riding is
    becoming popular, wildlife and being denied that habitat even at
    night, or incur an increased risk getting run over, if they attempt to
    use it. There is very little law enforcement even during the day in
    these days of tight budgets. There is no patrolling of parks at night!
    This gives mountain bikers free rein to do whatever they want,
    including riding trails that are closed to bikes or even building
    their own illegal trails. No wonder night riding is so popular! And,
    of course, night riding makes an activity that is already very
    dangerous, much more dangerous.

    Note: I was the Chair of the Wildlife Committee of the Sierra Club's
    San Francisco Bay Area Chapter for the past decade. During the same
    period, I studied conservation biology and the environmental impacts
    of mountain biking, which are summarized in my paper "The Impacts of
    Mountain Biking on Wildlife and People -- A Review of the Literature"
    http://home.pacbell.net/mjvande/scb7.htm.
    ===
    I am working on creating wildlife habitat that is off-limits to
    humans ("pure habitat"😉. Want to help? (I spent the previous 8
    years fighting auto dependence and road construction.)

    http://home.pacbell.net/mjvande

  2. "Mike Vandeman" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
    news:[email hidden]...

    Quoted message said:

    Frequently Asked Questions about Mountain Biking
    Michael Vandeman, Ph.D.
    March 5, 2004

    1. Why do people mountain bike?

    Because they can, and it's fun.

    Quoted message said:

    2. What is driving the sport of mountain biking?

    The fun, and obvious health benefits of the exercise that it provides.

    Quoted message said:

    3. What harm does mountain biking do?


    Occasionally, a rider will crash and burn, causing minor to serious
    injuries. And, there are certain isolated locations where there is minor
    erosion that comes from the pooling of water and the affects of bodies at
    motion colliding at the same site. These locations of erosion occur at what
    appears to be less than 0.01% of the entire inventory of trails. And, trails
    take up about 0.004% of the entire habitat through which they pass, so the
    damaged places account for .004 X .01 = .00004 of the entire habitat through
    which the trails pass.

    Quoted message said:

    4. Mountain bikers claim that their sport has no greater environmental
    impact than hiking. Is that true?

    See the response to 3, above.

    Quoted message said:

    5. Where should mountain biking allowed?

    On any trail where there is not a large population of inexperienced hikers.
    This would include places such as National Parks where people that seldom
    hike will congregate in large numbers on a relatively limited trail
    structure. The reason to exclude bikes on such trails will solely be the
    result of the desire for public officials to create a safe environment for
    people that do not generally get to visit outdoor venues. Yosemite is a good
    example of locales where bikes ought to be not allowed. It is not the only
    locale, but is merely a representative sample of the kinds of places where
    inexperienced hikers might appear in very large numbers.

    Quoted message said:

    6. What should the policy be on trails?

    Open, unless marked closed.

    Closed to bikes, unless marked

    Quoted message said:

    open. Signs that say "No Bikes" are quickly and repeatedly ripped out
    of the ground by mountain bikers.

    You don't really know who rips the signs out of the ground. YOUR logic says
    it is bikers, but the reality is that ANYBODY can be destroying the signs,
    just as lots of signs are destroyed all of the time.

    Quoted message said:

    7. Isn't it discriminatory to allow hikers and equestrians on trails,
    but not mountain bikers?

    No. It's selfish, unless the hiking environment is such as described earlier
    where lots of inexpereinced hikers will tend to congregate on a relitevly
    limited trail system.

    Quoted message said:

    8. Don't I have a right to mountain bike on all public lands?

    Logic says, yes you do. Reality is such that there are times/laces where
    mountain biking might be reasonably restricted.

    Quoted message said:

    9. Don't mountain bikers do some good things, like trail construction
    and trail maintenance?

    Yes, sometimes they do. The sad truth is that they do not do nearly enough
    though. For every mountain biker that pays to belong to a
    keep-the-trails-open organization, there are 20 people that belong to
    close-al-trails organizations, and at least 15 of those people seldom go
    outdoors to visit the trails they pay to have closed.

    Quoted message said:

    10. But don't mountain bikers provide added safety, by being able to
    quickly summon help in the event of an emergency?

    They are seldom, if ever, called upon to provide such services. Yes, they
    can provide this service, but the reality is that it is not a useful
    service.

    Quoted message said:

    11. Can't mountain biking help get our overweight kids off the couch?

    Sure. Lots of stuff can get a fat-ass kid off the sofa though. The problem
    is, if the parents are inclined to be couch patatoes, the kids will be sofa
    spuds too. Biking OR hiking isn't going to be a big attraction to these
    people. They do send in the checks though to groups that are bent on closing
    the trails.

    Quoted message said:

    12. Doesn't mountain biking get people out of their cars?

    Sure. So does hiking. There is no discernable difference in this question
    and the previous one.

    Quoted message said:

    13. Doesn't the threat from mountain biking pale, in comparison to
    other sources of environmental damage, such as logging?

    Pale in comparison to logging? Yes. But mountain bikes generally use logging
    routes and mine roads, so they do not create an additional load on the
    environment in these instances.

    Quoted message said:

    14. What's wrong with night riding? Humans have been destroying
    wildlife habitat for centuries, so that very little remains.

    The question here, and the run-on conclusion are non-sequitors.

    Quoted message said:

    Note: Mike is a crackpot environmentalist that when he attains 100% of his
    goal will have succeeded in preserving 0.00004% of the habitat through
    which riding and hiking trails pass. He was the Chair of the Wildlife
    Committee of the Sierra Club's San Francisco Bay Area Chapter for the past
    decade. During the same period, he claims to have studied conservation
    biology and the environmental impacts of mountain biking, which are
    summarized in my paper "The Impacts of Mountain Biking on Wildlife and
    People -- A Review of the Literature" (This would be a review of Mike's
    own study. )

  3. Jeff Strickland said:


    "Mike Vandeman" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
    news:[email hidden]...

    Quoted message said:

    Frequently Asked Questions about Mountain Biking
    Michael Vandeman, Ph.D.
    March 5, 2004

    1. Why do people mountain bike?

    Because they can, and it's fun.

    Only for the risk-addicted. It's not fun for anyone around them.

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    2. What is driving the sport of mountain biking?

    The fun, and obvious health benefits of the exercise that it provides.

    Broken bones & impotence are health benefits? Tell the truth.

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    3. What harm does mountain biking do?


    Occasionally, a rider will crash and burn, causing minor to serious
    injuries.

    Such as death.

    And, there are certain isolated locations where there is minor

    Quoted message said:

    erosion that comes from the pooling of water and the affects of bodies at
    motion colliding at the same site. These locations of erosion occur at what
    appears to be less than 0.01% of the entire inventory of trails. And, trails
    take up about 0.004% of the entire habitat through which they pass, so the
    damaged places account for .004 X .01 = .00004 of the entire habitat through
    which the trails pass.

    Quoted message said:

    4. Mountain bikers claim that their sport has no greater environmental
    impact than hiking. Is that true?

    See the response to 3, above.

    Liar.

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    5. Where should mountain biking allowed?

    On any trail where there is not a large population of inexperienced hikers.

    Experienced hikers don't want to be around bikes.

    Quoted message said:

    This would include places such as National Parks where people that seldom
    hike will congregate in large numbers on a relatively limited trail
    structure. The reason to exclude bikes on such trails will solely be the
    result of the desire for public officials to create a safe environment for
    people that do not generally get to visit outdoor venues. Yosemite is a good
    example of locales where bikes ought to be not allowed. It is not the only
    locale, but is merely a representative sample of the kinds of places where
    inexperienced hikers might appear in very large numbers.

    Quoted message said:

    6. What should the policy be on trails?

    Open, unless marked closed.

    Closed to bikes, unless marked

    Quoted message said:

    open. Signs that say "No Bikes" are quickly and repeatedly ripped out
    of the ground by mountain bikers.

    You don't really know who rips the signs out of the ground. YOUR logic says
    it is bikers, but the reality is that ANYBODY can be destroying the signs,
    just as lots of signs are destroyed all of the time.

    Hmmm. Hikers are removing "NO BIKES" signs? Not likely. They are
    removed by mountain bikers, OBVIOUSLY.

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    7. Isn't it discriminatory to allow hikers and equestrians on trails,
    but not mountain bikers?

    No. It's selfish, unless the hiking environment is such as described earlier
    where lots of inexpereinced hikers will tend to congregate on a relitevly
    limited trail system.

    Mountain bikers are NEVER exclouded from trails, liar.

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    8. Don't I have a right to mountain bike on all public lands?

    Logic says, yes you do. Reality is such that there are times/laces where
    mountain biking might be reasonably restricted.

    No, there's no such right, just as there is no right to drive a car.

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    9. Don't mountain bikers do some good things, like trail construction
    and trail maintenance?

    Yes, sometimes they do. The sad truth is that they do not do nearly enough
    though. For every mountain biker that pays to belong to a
    keep-the-trails-open organization, there are 20 people that belong to
    close-al-trails organizations, and at least 15 of those people seldom go
    outdoors to visit the trails they pay to have closed.

    Mountain bikers only work on trails so they can create (they think) an
    entitlement to ride them. In other words, it's nothing but
    "brown-nosing".

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    10. But don't mountain bikers provide added safety, by being able to
    quickly summon help in the event of an emergency?

    They are seldom, if ever, called upon to provide such services. Yes, they
    can provide this service, but the reality is that it is not a useful
    service.

    On the contrary, I can't think of a better use for a bike. If you ever
    have a serious accident, you will know what I mean.

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    11. Can't mountain biking help get our overweight kids off the couch?

    Sure. Lots of stuff can get a fat-ass kid off the sofa though. The problem
    is, if the parents are inclined to be couch patatoes, the kids will be sofa
    spuds too. Biking OR hiking isn't going to be a big attraction to these
    people. They do send in the checks though to groups that are bent on closing
    the trails.

    BS. Trails are never closed to mountain bikers, only to bikes.

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    12. Doesn't mountain biking get people out of their cars?

    Sure. So does hiking. There is no discernable difference in this question
    and the previous one.

    Nope, mountain bikers require a car to get to the trailhead.

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    13. Doesn't the threat from mountain biking pale, in comparison to
    other sources of environmental damage, such as logging?

    Pale in comparison to logging? Yes. But mountain bikes generally use logging
    routes and mine roads, so they do not create an additional load on the
    environment in these instances.

    BS. The laws of physics and biology are identical on trails & fire
    roads.

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    14. What's wrong with night riding? Humans have been destroying
    wildlife habitat for centuries, so that very little remains.

    The question here, and the run-on conclusion are non-sequitors.

    You missed the point. Night riding prevents wildlife from using their
    habitat.
    ===
    I am working on creating wildlife habitat that is off-limits to
    humans ("pure habitat"😉. Want to help? (I spent the previous 8
    years fighting auto dependence and road construction.)

    http://home.pacbell.net/mjvande

  4. "Mike Vandeman" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
    news:[email hidden]...

    Quoted message said:
    Jeff Strickland said:


    "Mike Vandeman" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
    news:[email hidden]...

    Quoted message said:

    Frequently Asked Questions about Mountain Biking
    Michael Vandeman, Ph.D.
    March 5, 2004

    1. Why do people mountain bike?

    Because they can, and it's fun.

    Only for the risk-addicted. It's not fun for anyone around them.

    You didn't ask why people do not mountain bike, you asked why they DID. They
    do mountain bike because THEY find it fun, and its a great form of
    exercise -- much better than, say, running off at the mouth or jumping to
    conclusions.

  5. On Mon, 3 Jul 2006 16:34:28 -0700, "Jeff Strickland" <[email hidden]>

    Quoted message said:


    "Mike Vandeman" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
    news:[email hidden]...

    Quoted message said:
    Jeff Strickland said:


    "Mike Vandeman" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
    news:[email hidden]...
    > Frequently Asked Questions about Mountain Biking
    > Michael Vandeman, Ph.D.
    > March 5, 2004
    >
    > 1. Why do people mountain bike?

    Because they can, and it's fun.

    Only for the risk-addicted. It's not fun for anyone around them.

    You didn't ask why people do not mountain bike, you asked why they DID. They
    do mountain bike because THEY find it fun, and its a great form of
    exercise -- much better than, say, running off at the mouth or jumping to
    conclusions.

    Yawn.
    ===
    I am working on creating wildlife habitat that is off-limits to
    humans ("pure habitat"😉. Want to help? (I spent the previous 8
    years fighting auto dependence and road construction.)

    http://home.pacbell.net/mjvande

  6. [quote="Mike Vandeman"]
    snipetty snip snip snip
    [QUOTE]


    you just lost again mikey? Man you are like the inflatable man. Knock you down and you bounce straight back up again. moron.

  7. Mike Vandeman <[email hidden]> wrote in
    news:[email hidden]:

    Quoted message said:

    On Mon, 3 Jul 2006 16:34:28 -0700, "Jeff Strickland" <[email hidden]>

    Quoted message said:


    "Mike Vandeman" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
    news:[email hidden]...

    Quoted message said:

    On Fri, 30 Jun 2006 11:19:26 -0700, "Jeff Strickland"
    <[email hidden]> wrote:

    >
    >"Mike Vandeman" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
    >news:[email hidden]...
    >> Frequently Asked Questions about Mountain Biking
    >> Michael Vandeman, Ph.D.
    >> March 5, 2004
    >>
    >> 1. Why do people mountain bike?
    >
    >Because they can, and it's fun.

    Only for the risk-addicted. It's not fun for anyone around them.

    You didn't ask why people do not mountain bike, you asked why they
    DID. They do mountain bike because THEY find it fun, and its a great
    form of exercise -- much better than, say, running off at the mouth or
    jumping to conclusions.

    Yawn.

    Is that the best you can do? Sad, very sad.

    --
    Posted via a free Usenet account from http://www.teranews.com

  8. "Mike Vandeman" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
    news:[email hidden]...

    Quoted message said:

    On Mon, 3 Jul 2006 16:34:28 -0700, "Jeff Strickland" <[email hidden]>

    Quoted message said:


    "Mike Vandeman" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
    news:[email hidden]...

    Quoted message said:

    On Fri, 30 Jun 2006 11:19:26 -0700, "Jeff Strickland"
    <[email hidden]> wrote:

    >
    >"Mike Vandeman" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
    >news:[email hidden]...
    >> Frequently Asked Questions about Mountain Biking
    >> Michael Vandeman, Ph.D.
    >> March 5, 2004
    >>
    >> 1. Why do people mountain bike?
    >
    >Because they can, and it's fun.

    Only for the risk-addicted. It's not fun for anyone around them.

    You didn't ask why people do not mountain bike, you asked why they DID.
    They
    do mountain bike because THEY find it fun, and its a great form of
    exercise -- much better than, say, running off at the mouth or jumping to
    conclusions.

    Yawn.

    If you got more exercise than running off at the mouth or jumping to
    conclusions, this would not tire you so much.

    You sir have no beliveability in the arena of recreational activity and the
    affects on habitats and species. You and your ilk have been crying that the
    sky is falling for as long as I can remember, which dates back about 40
    years now, and the places where recreational vehicle travel occurs still
    have a vibrant and healthy wildlife community. Indeed, I can demonstrate
    places where recreational activity is no longer allowed, and the plant
    species of the area has declined when compared to the adjacent area where
    vehicle travel is allowed.

    You completely and utterly reject the math that proves your agenda if it
    were 100% effective would only preserve 0.0004% of the habitat through which
    the activity you rail against takes place. Surely you could save more
    habitat by eliminating the construction of a minimall.

  9. Mike Vandeman <[email hidden]> wrote in
    news:[email hidden]:

    Quoted message said:

    On Mon, 3 Jul 2006 16:34:28 -0700, "Jeff Strickland" <[email hidden]>

    Quoted message said:


    "Mike Vandeman" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
    news:[email hidden]...

    Quoted message said:

    On Fri, 30 Jun 2006 11:19:26 -0700, "Jeff Strickland"
    <[email hidden]> wrote:

    >
    >"Mike Vandeman" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
    >news:[email hidden]...
    >> Frequently Asked Questions about Mountain Biking
    >> Michael Vandeman, Ph.D.
    >> March 5, 2004
    >>
    >> 1. Why do people mountain bike?
    >
    >Because they can, and it's fun.

    Only for the risk-addicted. It's not fun for anyone around them.

    You didn't ask why people do not mountain bike, you asked why they
    DID. They do mountain bike because THEY find it fun, and its a great
    form of exercise -- much better than, say, running off at the mouth or
    jumping to conclusions.

    Yawn.

    What's the matter Mike, couldn't handle the truth?

    Since you are not a mountain biker, you have no idea why they do it. You
    just think you do.

    He appears very sincere in his statements

    Quoted message said:

    ===
    I am working on creating wildlife habitat that is off-limits to
    humans ("pure habitat"😉. Want to help? (I spent the previous 8
    years fighting auto dependence and road construction.)

    http://home.pacbell.net/mjvande

    --
    Posted via a free Usenet account from http://www.teranews.com

  10. "Chris Foster" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
    news:[email hidden]...

    Quoted message said:

    Mike Vandeman <[email hidden]> wrote in
    news:[email hidden]:

    Quoted message said:

    On Mon, 3 Jul 2006 16:34:28 -0700, "Jeff Strickland" <[email hidden]>

    Quoted message said:


    "Mike Vandeman" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
    news:[email hidden]...
    > On Fri, 30 Jun 2006 11:19:26 -0700, "Jeff Strickland"
    > <[email hidden]> wrote:
    >
    >>
    >>"Mike Vandeman" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
    >>news:[email hidden]...
    >>> Frequently Asked Questions about Mountain Biking
    >>> Michael Vandeman, Ph.D.
    >>> March 5, 2004
    >>>
    >>> 1. Why do people mountain bike?
    >>
    >>Because they can, and it's fun.
    >
    > Only for the risk-addicted. It's not fun for anyone around them.
    >

    You didn't ask why people do not mountain bike, you asked why they
    DID. They do mountain bike because THEY find it fun, and its a great
    form of exercise -- much better than, say, running off at the mouth or
    jumping to conclusions.

    Yawn.

    What's the matter Mike, couldn't handle the truth?

    Since you are not a mountain biker, you have no idea why they do it. You
    just think you do.

    He appears very sincere in his statements

    Honestly, sincerity is relative. I'm more sincere that you guy sseem to like
    what you are doing -- that is, YOU can and you find it fun. Personally I do
    not ride, I'm only here to keep trails open. Mike is here to close trails to
    everybody, my goal is to keep the trails we already have open.

    I think I understand why you guys do it, but it isn't my cup of tea and I
    see no harm, okay I see very little harm, in riding a bike. Surely there are
    greater threats to the evnironment than a few joy-seekers on bikes.

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