French vacation

"ilan" <[email hidden]> a écrit dans le message de news:
[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

That is to say, I am on vacation *away* from France during this year's
Tour.
I am observing with detached horror the "revelations" in Le Monde and
L'Equipe,
and from what I could gather from their websites, they continually
quote
damning evidence (L'Equipe's headline was "Armstrong dans l'etau" =
Armstrong in the dragnet) from the civil trial, but I have yet to find
a reference
to the fact that Armstrong won the case, and won punitive damages as
well.

Even if they did, it wouldn't make any difference, because they don't
believe
that there is a justice system in the USA. Of course, the French
believe that
their system is perfect, for example, the McMartin pre-school
case in the USA, which changed how mass pedophilia accusations were
dealt
with in North America after 1995,
was completely reproduced in France, from 2001 to 2005, and the
official decision
was that the French judge in charge of the investigation did nothing
wrong,
even though half a dozen people spent 4 years in jail despite being
completely innocent.

I also haven't read the full Lemond interview in today's L'Equipe. I
would be interested
to know whether they asked him why he failed to attend the 2003
centenary
celebrations, I think he was the only former champion not to show up,
along with
Pantani, which puts him in good company (actually there was another one
who
was even more ill, but I forget who).

Anyway, I am in Montreal where I won't be subjected to the horror. I
would be
interested to know how beloved French cycling hero Laurent Jalabert,
now
TV commentator, is holding up now that his former DS is really in the
dragnet.
Probably very well, as the French will once again assume that their own
heroes
are above reproach.

-ilan

P.S. I went to "La Maison des Cyclistes" in Montreal today. I made sure
to ride in,
and was immediately told that bicycles are not allowed there.

Non-sens :

"Laurent Jalabert a longtemps été le mal-aimé du peloton français. Son
énorme palmarès n'a pas reçu la juste considération des supporters"

Tell to every one if you want that Jaja Jalabert is a hero for the french,
of course some can agree with you.

However the fact is that Virenque was MUCH MORE POPULAR, you like it or not.
The same paralel was done in the JalabertxVirenque as in AnquetilxPoulidor.

BTW : Even the popularity of Virenque could not avoid the Festina affaire.

Try another one.

Montesquiou a écrit

Quoted message said:

Non-sens :

"Laurent Jalabert a longtemps été le mal-aimé du peloton français. Son
énorme palmarès n'a pas reçu la juste considération des supporters"

Tell to every one if you want that Jaja Jalabert is a hero for the
french, of course some can agree with you.

However the fact is that Virenque was MUCH MORE POPULAR, you like it or
not.
Try another one.

Okay. How about the full paragraph? From
http://www.velo101.com/actualite/default.asp?Id=4592&Section=elites1

"Laurent Jalabert a longtemps été le mal-aimé du peloton français. Son
énorme palmarès n'a pas reçu la juste considération des supporters.[...]
Mais l'été 2002 efface tout. En deux mois, l'injustice est réparée. Le
public apprend avec douleur le choix du coureur."

Sounds bien-aime to me.

In article
<[email hidden]>,

ilan said:

Anyway, I am in Montreal where I won't be subjected to the horror.

Only the belly of the beast.

--
Michael Press

Quoted message said:

Anyway, I am in Montreal where I won't be subjected to the horror. I
would be
interested to know how beloved French cycling hero Laurent Jalabert,
now
TV commentator, is holding up now that his former DS is really in the
dragnet.
Probably very well, as the French will once again assume that their own
heroes
are above reproach.

And there you proof you haven't really paid any attention at all to the
issue at hand. You try to turn it in a "French hate USA OMG", but you
completely fail to see and admit that the French are HARD on their
Dopers, while the USA cover up and structurally seem to allow deceit in
sports.

Structurally? Yes,
Carl Lewis. I'm sooo clean even though I am caught redhanded multiple
times.
Baseball: Lets hit balls into orbit. Who cares if the players double in
size.

The French destroyed their best team (Festina), hunted down their best
riders (Virenque, Jalabert), yet you imply they are lenient. Jalabert
didn't dare to set a foot in France... Compare this with what happened
to Carl Lewis^^

So yes, a lot of Europeans have no faith whatsoever in how Americans
handle their dopers. I for one LAUGH about the out of competition tests
done to Armstrong. The Carl Lewis eyeopener showed that we don't have
to expect anything.

Tuschinski said:

Baseball: Lets hit balls into orbit. Who cares if the players double in
size.

Dumbass -

Errrr . . . did you pay any attention to the congressional hearings
where Mark McGwire blubbered like a baby?

But ya, a lot of Americans don't give a damn about doping in athletes.
Why should the average person care? They're usually pretty doped up
themselves (nicotine, alcohol, ritalin, birth control hormones, sexual
performance enhancers, caffeine, you name it).

thanks,

K. Gringioni.

"Robert Chung" <[email hidden]> a écrit dans le message de news:
[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Montesquiou a écrit

Quoted message said:

Non-sens :

"Laurent Jalabert a longtemps été le mal-aimé du peloton français. Son
énorme palmarès n'a pas reçu la juste considération des supporters"

Tell to every one if you want that Jaja Jalabert is a hero for the
french, of course some can agree with you.

However the fact is that Virenque was MUCH MORE POPULAR, you like it or
not.
Try another one.

Okay. How about the full paragraph? From
http://www.velo101.com/actualite/default.asp?Id=4592&Section=elites1

"Laurent Jalabert a longtemps été le mal-aimé du peloton français. Son
énorme palmarès n'a pas reçu la juste considération des supporters.[...]
Mais l'été 2002 efface tout. En deux mois, l'injustice est réparée. Le
public apprend avec douleur le choix du coureur."

Sounds bien-aime to me.

Robert,

The original post gives the impression that Jalabert was/is a "beloved Hero"
in France.

I said NO ! Of course as nothing is White and Black, 0 or 1, true or false,
I never said "they hate him".

What I wanted to say is that the French ALLWAY liked more Virenque than
Jalabert.

The French Justice and media took hard on Virenque (the-cheater), in
contradiction with the Ilam claim.

That's the point.

(see the Tuschinski)

Quoted message said:

Dumbass -

Errrr . . . did you pay any attention to the congressional hearings
where Mark McGwire blubbered like a baby?

Yes, I see the change in mentality (Balco) , but at the same time there
is still no good system and a huge resistance from the federations
themselves.

On a related note, it is very worrisome that the justice system needs
to intervene (Not just in the USA, but especially in Europe with
Cycling). That is why I smirk about doping-controls (not just in the
USA, though those are imho most laughable). How can it be that such
huge scale dop practices don't show in the controls?

pick one of three:

1. The dope can't be found = methods are lacking
2. The dopers are protected = the system is crooked
3. There are no dopers, the big cases, the not-dying rumors, the
bellringers, they are all hoaxes and strawmen

I want to belive it is #3... but it is such a huge stretch (and it
stretches every day!) that I personally have to dismiss it.

Quoted message said:

But ya, a lot of Americans don't give a damn about doping in athletes.
Why should the average person care? They're usually pretty doped up
themselves (nicotine, alcohol, ritalin, birth control hormones, sexual
performance enhancers, caffeine, you name it).

A very good observation. This is why the French and Spanish newspaper
can go haywire: they know they will shock the readers (=more sales)

Quoted message said:

thanks,

K. Gringioni.

<Montesquiou> a écrit dans le message de news:
[email hidden]...
|
| "Robert Chung" <[email hidden]> a écrit dans le message de news:
| [email hidden]...
| > Montesquiou a écrit
| >> Non-sens :
| >>
| >> "Laurent Jalabert a longtemps été le mal-aimé du peloton français. Son
| >> énorme palmarès n'a pas reçu la juste considération des supporters"
| >>
| >> Tell to every one if you want that Jaja Jalabert is a hero for the
| >> french, of course some can agree with you.
| >>
| >> However the fact is that Virenque was MUCH MORE POPULAR, you like it or
| >> not.
| >> Try another one.
| >
| > Okay. How about the full paragraph? From
| > http://www.velo101.com/actualite/default.asp?Id=4592&Section=elites1
| >
| > "Laurent Jalabert a longtemps été le mal-aimé du peloton français. Son
| > énorme palmarès n'a pas reçu la juste considération des supporters.[...]
| > Mais l'été 2002 efface tout. En deux mois, l'injustice est réparée. Le
| > public apprend avec douleur le choix du coureur."
| >
| > Sounds bien-aime to me.
| >
| >
|
| Robert,
|
| The original post gives the impression that Jalabert was/is a "beloved
Hero"
| in France.
|
| I said NO ! Of course as nothing is White and Black, 0 or 1, true or
false,
| I never said "they hate him".
|
| What I wanted to say is that the French ALLWAY liked more Virenque than
| Jalabert.
|
| The French Justice and media took hard on Virenque (the-cheater), in
| contradiction with the Ilam claim.
|
| That's the point.
|

So hard that he's commentating for French Television, and he was on (and
won) "Get me out of here, I'm a star." Like Jaja, he was "rehabilitated".

Kurgan Gringioni said:

Tuschinski said:

Baseball: Lets hit balls into orbit. Who cares if the players double in
size.

Dumbass -

Errrr . . . did you pay any attention to the congressional hearings
where Mark McGwire blubbered like a baby?

But ya, a lot of Americans don't give a damn about doping in athletes.
Why should the average person care? They're usually pretty doped up
themselves (nicotine, alcohol, ritalin, birth control hormones, sexual
performance enhancers, caffeine, you name it).

thanks,

K. Gringioni.

Don't forget chocolate.

Kurgan Gringioni said:

Quoted message said:

But ya, a lot of Americans don't give a damn about doping in athletes.
Why should the average person care? They're usually pretty doped up
themselves (nicotine, alcohol, ritalin, birth control hormones, sexual
performance enhancers, caffeine, you name it).

yeahyeah said:

Don't forget chocolate.

Salmonella chocolate is even better for cyclists. Helps the diet plan.