Freehub problem

Dan Daniel said:

Shimano Deore LX rear hub, FH-M563 7 speed. When I bought the bicycle used a few months ago, the
chain and cassette were pretty new while the chainrings were pretty worn. The rear cones were
pitted and I replaced them along with the chainrings.

Quoted message said:

Problems- when I do any backpedaling in the four smaller rear cogs, the chain does not always flow
cleanly backwards. The chain goes slack between the top of the chainring and the top of the
Freehub. It will eventually go backwards, and usually before all the take-up in the rear
derailleur is gone. As if there is heavy jelly in the Freehub mechanism.

Take our wheel out and see how easily the gear cluster spins backward. No need to guess what is
causing the bind. If it's not that, then the chain angle is to severe to engage. Could it be that
you are doing this from other than the right most chainwheel? That presents an engagement problem
all by itself.

Quoted message said:

Rarely, I get a jump in the drivetrain. My best guess is that it is a problem with the Freehub
pawls. Always at applying initial pressure, either when starting after a stop or after coasting.

Take it off the bicycle and see what it's doing by hand. This is a pretty straight forward test. You
should be able to disassemble the Freehub, clean and re-lubricate it.

Quoted message said:

I have removed and flushed the free hub three times now. The first time I put Phil Wood tenacious
oil in it. Didn't help- flush, then TriFlow. Didn't help- flush, then Prolink. The Freehub spins
nicely, no gritty feel, etc.

Use nothing heavier than 30W motor oil, preferable 10W in colder weather. When you reverse rotation
by hand, can you get it to skip a tooth? I think if you opened it, you would find a damaged pawl.

Quoted message said:

Today it was colder than it has been in a while (50 F) and the backpedal problem was much worse
than when warmer.

That isn't cold yet. If it gets below freezing, it might no work at all. Stop using tenacious
lubricants. That's exactly what you don't need.

Quoted message said:

Is it possible that the grease on the right side is affecting the Freehub? I can see that the cup
area doesn't completely seal off the Freehub body from the grease. Too much grease creating drag
on the Freehub body? I am using TriFlow grease.

Quoted message said:

Or does this sound like a shot Freehub body?

From what you say, you seem to have found the cause in the Freehub. Take it apart and see what
isn't working.

Jobst Brandt [email hidden]

Quoted message said:

That isn't cold yet. If it gets below freezing, it might no work at all. Stop using tenacious
lubricants. That's exactly what you don't need.

This lube situation... are you saying that you can overlube the freehub?

--
Phil, Squid-in-Training

Squid-in-Training said:

Quoted message said:

That isn't cold yet. If it gets below freezing, it might no work at all. Stop using tenacious
lubricants. That's exactly what you don't need.

This lube situation... are you saying that you can overlube the freehub?

I read him as referring to me using Phil's Tenacious Oil. Meaning something like a 90 weight gear
oil. Too heavy to allow rapid movement of the pawls on their pivot points, maybe?

Beyond that, I do wonder how much lube a freehub/wheel does need. Thinking about it, seems that it
is under minimal pressure when freewheeling and the bearings are in action, and the bearings are not
in use when it is under load. Unlike, say, hub bearings.

In high school, we used to open up freewheel bodies and put grease in the pawl area to shut up that
stupid clatter when touring. And the only problem we ever had was someone's top ring coming off
going up a hill. Nothing like trying to find those little bearings along the roadside so that we
could stuff enough back in to get him going again. I wonder if the size and springs in larger
freewheel bodies made it possible to gum up the pawls with grease. Or we were just lucky.

Phil Lee said:

Quoted message said:

That isn't cold yet. If it gets below freezing, it might no work at all. Stop using tenacious
lubricants. That's exactly what you don't need.

Quoted message said:

This lube situation... are you saying that you can overlube the freehub?

Amount of lubricant does not change with season or temperature but when cold, more viscous oils
become solid and prevent pawl engagement. "Tenacious" implies higher viscosity although the term
does not appear in lubrication journals so it remains an advertising gimmick at best.

Jobst Brandt [email hidden]

Dan Daniel wrote: -snip-

Quoted message said:

Problems- when I do any backpedaling in the four smaller rear cogs, the chain does not always flow
cleanly backwards. The chain goes slack between the top of the chainring and the top of the
freehub.

-snip-

Quoted message said:

Rarely, I get a jump in the drivetrain. My best guess is that it is a problem with the freehub
pawls. Always at applying initial pressure, either when starting after a stop or after coasting.

-snip-

Quoted message said:

Is it possible that the grease on the right side is affecting the freehub?

-snip-

That's possible I suppose but isn't common. Another likely scenario is right side dust shell
drag - those are really hard to remove/reinstall without damage and a dented one would drag as
you describe.

But the no-coast phenomenon, while annoying, is not as serious as the pawl dysfunction. Definitely
get that fixed, which is cheaply done by grabbing a replacement body from a scrap wheel.

Even if you have to _buy_ a new body, do it. The thought of a pawl failure while standing through a
yellow light should be enough to convince you of the severity.

--
Andrew Muzi www.yellowjersey.org Open every day since 1 April, 1971

A Muzi said:

Even if you have to _buy_ a new body, do it. The thought of a pawl failure while standing through a
yellow light should be enough to convince you of the severity.

Ack! Painful painful scenario. You've convincd me.

Dan Daniel <[email hidden]> wrote in message

Quoted message said:

Now, now, not above my skills 🙂 Above my access to the specific tool, and above my desire to buy
or fabricate the tool or jury rig another method, and mainly far above my desire to spend such
time to rebuild a part that isn't worth the effort.

oh, but its fun. and i got the tool for eight dollars, IIRC, and have revived a couple freehubs with
it, so i figure it was a good investment.

If you know a source for

Quoted message said:

replacement pawls and springs for a 1996 +/- LX 7-speed freehub, I'll give it more
consideration 🙂

id lean a lot harder towards getting an old freehub from an abandoned POS hub lying around most LBSs
than looking for individual freehub parts.

(ant) said:

Dan Daniel <[email hidden]> wrote in message

Quoted message said:

Now, now, not above my skills 🙂 Above my access to the specific tool, and above my desire to buy
or fabricate the tool or jury rig another method, and mainly far above my desire to spend such
time to rebuild a part that isn't worth the effort.

oh, but its fun. and i got the tool for eight dollars, IIRC, and have revived a couple freehubs
with it, so i figure it was a good investment.

If you know a source for

Quoted message said:

replacement pawls and springs for a 1996 +/- LX 7-speed freehub, I'll give it more
consideration 🙂

id lean a lot harder towards getting an old freehub from an abandoned POS hub lying around most
LBSs than looking for individual freehub parts.

Curious- are the pawls and springs interchangeable from model to model? Would I need a 7-speed LX
freehub to take apart for replacements? Any 7-speed? Any Shimano freehub at all? What have you
found out?

Dan Daniel <[email hidden]> wrote in message

Quoted message said:

Curious- are the pawls and springs interchangeable from model to model? Would I need a 7-speed LX
freehub to take apart for replacements? Any 7-speed? Any Shimano freehub at all? What have you
found out?

what have i found out? nothing, really. i havent taken apart enough freehubs to notice , let alone
remember, any trends. i think the only two ive done surgery on that were the same were two [censored]
seized up ritchey bodies.

but are you really thinking of overhauling a freehub? if youre thinking of doing it for fun, then go
ahead and do it. take it apart, clean everything really well, maybe a little steel wool if the pawls
are rusted up, and possibly some new bearings, generally a little over 50 1/8". but if youre talking
about actually replacing parts, you might as well get a whole new (or used, but working) freehub.
take that apart too, if you want, but i woudl venture to guess that its not worth the time to find
individual parts to tgrade between bodies. freehub bodies dont seem to be very technologically
advanced, in the low to mid range. i think any old thing lying around would generally work.

campy sells individual parts. i've special ordered pawl springs and pawls for hardcore customers.
but shimano? the shop i work at has a bucket of some 50 old hubs cut out of wrecked wheels. ill bet
a lot of other shops have that same bucket lying around somewhere, and they might be pleased to let
a freehub join a new home for minimal cash and minimal logistical worry.

but to answer your question.. no, i have no idea what is interchangeable 😉

cheers, anthony