Fred Danielson

Bill C said:

I don't get the concept that says, just because someone is anonymous,
or obnoxious they must suck.

and it's ironic when you see which people this line is most popular
with.

Quoted message said:

Following a cat5 field, or a 15/16 field
worries me a whole lot more than a P/1/2 field. Cat5s don't know any
better and you never know what the hell they're going to do. 15/16s

are

Quoted message said:

usually pretty damn fast, but with all the hormones flowing they can

be

Quoted message said:

pretty unpredictable too.

we're going off on a tangent here. but i'm sure you've found the higher
the level of racing the more respect there is for rules and officials.

it's easier to enforce the rules if you have some powers. pros and
higher cats know they are exepected to know the rules and know
officials won't hesitate to fine or DQ them or their team.

the hardest categories to officiate are masters. since they're mostly
there just to ride in a bunch they don't care about DQs (what, they
lose their 30th place?) or nominal fines, so as an official you don't
have a lot of potency with those riders.

it might be intimidating to tell some big time pro to warm up with his
helmet on, but he'll listen to you. if you say that to some forty year
old he'll tell you to get lost and then [censored] about it on the internet.

"Bill C" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

It really isn't that hard to tell who has raced enough to have a clue,
or done enough around racing to know what the hell they're talking
about. In bike racing it's pretty damn tough to claim to be better than
you are when you do it where everybody can see what is really
happening. I don't know a whole lot of people who aren't involved in
racing that want to talk about it, and those that are involved have a
pretty good idea exactly where everybody is on the food chain.
I don't get the concept that says, just because someone is anonymous,
or obnoxious they must suck. It's killing people to even begin to think
CP might be as good as he says he is.

Quoted message said:

also, if you read people's postings instead of arguing with other
pinheads you'd already know that mike used to be a pretty good rider.

Sounds like he's still pretty good. Someone I wouldn't mind having in
a race I'm working at all. Following a cat5 field, or a 15/16 field
worries me a whole lot more than a P/1/2 field. Cat5s don't know any
better and you never know what the hell they're going to do. 15/16s are
usually pretty damn fast, but with all the hormones flowing they can be
pretty unpredictable too.
As far as squirrely goes, some riders don't ever seem to learn. I know
of one former junior who may just become a d3 or better who still
scares the hell out of even his teamates with the stupid [censored] he does.
I'm babbling again, but Amit is pretty much on the money here.

Amit suggests that mike was just telling a funny story about Danielson. If
that's the case I misunderstood him. There's so much carping about other
riders (from the likes of Crit Pro who, if he were half as good as he
pretends would still be on a pro team) that it's to mis-read someone here.

One thing that I saw when I was racing and when my kids were racing was that
you could tell talent from a mile away skillful rider or not. Jenny Reed
stood out like a searchlight in a dark room. She couldn't climb to save her
butt but she could do a flat TT like a world champ even when she was 16. I
can't even imagine anyone casting aspersions on her riding ability because
she couldn't climb. And I have a hard time accepting that a Collegiate A
rider knows anything except how to suffer.

amit said:

we're going off on a tangent here. but i'm sure you've found the

higher

Quoted message said:

the level of racing the more respect there is for rules and

officials.

Quoted message said:

it's easier to enforce the rules if you have some powers. pros and
higher cats know they are exepected to know the rules and know
officials won't hesitate to fine or DQ them or their team.

the hardest categories to officiate are masters. since they're mostly
there just to ride in a bunch they don't care about DQs (what, they
lose their 30th place?) or nominal fines, so as an official you don't
have a lot of potency with those riders.

it might be intimidating to tell some big time pro to warm up with

his

Quoted message said:

helmet on, but he'll listen to you. if you say that to some forty

year

Quoted message said:

old he'll tell you to get lost and then [censored] about it on the

internet.

HOLY [censored]! AMEN!! Godamn if that ain't the truth. Luckily here in New
England we have a handfull of Masters like Paul Curley and Scott Wade
who can make any race, and 90% of the time my job is to go with the
money, so I miss out on most of the [censored] after the real racers shed
the chaff.
I really like doing the Bob Beale Master's Weekend because I get to
talk with and collect stories from the 60 and up types who have great
stories to tell. The worst are the 30/35+ never was types who are
convinced they really should've been pros.
That said there are a bunch of people in that category who are really
solid racers, with no illusions and attitudes who are great. JT and
some of his teamates are definitely in that category.
Bill C

On 15 Mar 2005 16:04:22 -0800, "amit" <[email hidden]>

Quoted message said:

we're going off on a tangent here. but i'm sure you've found the higher
the level of racing the more respect there is for rules and officials.

I've done my hundred races or so as an official and have to say that
that isn't true. Cat 4s may [censored] because they don't understand the
rules, but they rarely cross the line. The advantage with Cat 3s and
2s and masters is that you end up knowing most of them that you deal
with on a regular basis, so they tend to be easy enough to deal with,
especially the masters.

OTOH, certain cat 1s seem to feel that they are above and beyond the
rules. Also, they (some) know the rules and work them as if they know
it better than the cat 1 official. Admittedly, this is from
observation as cat 3 officials basically carry stuff around and flip
lap counters in most cat 1 races, but if you are looking for the
occasional exceptionally obnoxious racer, its been cat 1s in my
experience.

The worst? Easy - boyfriends of the women racers, especially if the
girlfriend goes down and gets an abrasion or two and the boyfriend
thinks he has something to prove for some reason. Occasionally a
junior and a junior's parent will be off the wall - and IMO the most
likely to try to cheat, especially equipment.

Finally, for what its worth, bicycle racing does far better than most
adrenalin fueled sports. I've had what I consider three major screw
ups (unannounced gamblers prime that easily cost someone a win,
thinking my Chief Judge knew how to operate the camera at the Masters
District Road Race, and letting someone job me at the pits at a
locally major race) and the racers took it better than could be
expected. Soccer parents and Little League parents are easily off the
scale compared to bicycle racers.

Curtis L. Russell
Odenton, MD (USA)
Just someone on two wheels...

tyler hamilton was one, and there are many others, colorado, new
england and
california collegiate racing is really competitive. I would have never
raced at all
if not for collegiate racing and we all know what a loss to the sport
that
would have been.

I'm making egotisitical rantings? cycling really didn't do much
for my ego - getting hammered at a fringe sport for 8 years
taught me how to be humble if anything.

I don't think a pro racing paris-nice needs you to defend him from some

dude sitting at home typing away on RBR.

I was just telling a story, I have hundreds of them
I bore my friends with, sorry, Now that Jason Waddel is done racing,
he could spend a few minutes a week
war storying for us, he must have stories about the front of races too.

Curtis L. Russell said:

Finally, for what its worth, bicycle racing does far better than most
adrenalin fueled sports. I've had what I consider three major screw
ups (unannounced gamblers prime that easily cost someone a win,
thinking my Chief Judge knew how to operate the camera at the Masters
District Road Race, and letting someone job me at the pits at a
locally major race) and the racers took it better than could be
expected. Soccer parents and Little League parents are easily off the
scale compared to bicycle racers.

Curtis L. Russell
Odenton, MD (USA)
Just someone on two wheels...

Got a couple of Masters I'd like to ship you. Most of them are pretty
reasonable, but this really seems to be the only group that will argue
forever about whether they were 23d of 24th in a pack sprint comong in
7 minutes back. They will argue even after you show them on the finish
camera where they were.
Luckily with the pros races here they tend to put the same group of
officials out with them, and most of them learn very quickly not to
argue too much with senior type officials. We've got some incredibly
good people so there really isn't much of a problem there.
Your right on about the Jrs. being the sneakiest of the bunch. Doesn't
happen too often, but a couple times a year one of them will come up
with something really creative just to keep it interesting.
Hands down though dealing with cycling people is a whole lot easier
than the other sports. It seems like the brawls just keep coming in
most of the ball sports, and the [censored] going down in Euro soccer between
officials quitting and cheating is comppletely nuts.
95% of the time it's a great job, and on the motor my job is to have
the best seat in the house and pay attention to the race. Can't beat
it.
Bill C

Tom Kunich said:

Amit suggests that mike was just telling a funny story about

Danielson. If

Quoted message said:

that's the case I misunderstood him.

dumbass,

i guess that's understandable.

"tyler hamilton was one"

Who is Tyler Hamilton?

crit PRO said:

"tyler hamilton was one"

Who is Tyler Hamilton?

I knew I should have stuck a reserved mark on that phrase...

"amit" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Tom Kunich said:

Amit suggests that mike was just telling a funny story about
Danielson. If that's the case I misunderstood him.

i guess that's understandable.

However, I think that you're the one misunderstanding some guy shooting pot
shots at a pro rider. We notice that Mike hasn't posted a follow-up.

Tom Kunich said:

"amit" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Tom Kunich said:

Amit suggests that mike was just telling a funny story about
Danielson. If that's the case I misunderstood him.

i guess that's understandable.

However, I think that you're the one misunderstanding some guy

shooting pot

Quoted message said:

shots at a pro rider. We notice that Mike hasn't posted a follow-up.

uh, I did post a follow up, three days ago, saying that danielson - a
euro pro racing paris-nice, does not need you (tom kunich) to defend
him from me (mike schatzman), a dude sitting on a computer posting on
RBR. He is a pro now, he was a scrub then, end of story.
but also, I must add, just because he's a pro, doesn't mean we can't
make fun of him.
I think Decanio pointing out his obsession with burritos, for example,
was very funny stuff.
I'm thinking you have no sense of humour, tom, or maybe you just
worship pros, and want to lick sweaty chamois, but the pros really are
just like you or me, just faster at pedaling a bicycle.
Who are we supposed to make fun of? some local racer nobody has ever
heard of?
Floyd Landis was notoriously sketchy when he started racing for Mercury
too, another MTB rider who switched to road, nobody wanted to be on his
wheel that first season - and we all know what a pathetic loser that
guy is, helping Lance with the TDF and all that.