frame painting

tom fugate said:

anyone know a good source on frame painting how to??

Don't. That is, unless you are experienced with painting cars, etc., and
have all that fancy equipment, don't paint your own. For the same money
as spray cans will cost (OK, maybe a bit more), you can get a powder-coat
finish that is extremely durable and beautiful, rather than something that
chips as soon as you ride it.

I did two old bikes with spray cans, then when the track frame got ugly in
a few weeks, I had it powder coated something like 5-7 years ago, and it
is still beautiful. It cost $100 for the frame, plus $50 to chrome the
fork (which did not last).

Now, if you want to restore an original Colnago paintjob, or do all the
pinstriping and decals, you might want to look at a specialty place that
knows all about that. But to just make it look good and stay that way,
IMO powder coat is the way to go.

--

David L. Johnson

__o | I believe that the motion picture is destined to revolutionize
_`\(,_ | our educational system and that in a few years it will supplant
(_)/ (_) | largely, if not entirely, the use of textbooks -- Thomas
Edison, 1922

David L. Johnson said:

tom fugate said:

anyone know a good source on frame painting how to??

Don't. That is, unless you are experienced with painting cars, etc., and
have all that fancy equipment, don't paint your own. For the same money
as spray cans will cost (OK, maybe a bit more), you can get a powder-coat
finish that is extremely durable and beautiful, rather than something that
chips as soon as you ride it.

I did two old bikes with spray cans, then when the track frame got ugly in
a few weeks, I had it powder coated something like 5-7 years ago, and it
is still beautiful. It cost $100 for the frame, plus $50 to chrome the
fork (which did not last).

How good does powder coating look? I have the impression it doesn't
have the "depth" appearance of a nice paint job - am I right?

Our 20-year-old Cannondales have collected a dozen chips each, some of
them big; and some bubbling under the paint, esp. on my wife's, where
the cable guides are apparently a different alloy than the main tubes.
But the original paint, a deep, deep metallic green, is such a nice
color...

- Frank Krygowski

tom fugate said:

anyone know a good source on frame painting how to??

My friend Rob.

He paints DeKerf's and Rocky Mountain's high-end bikes, among others.
He uses liquid paints. .

Rob and the powder coater I also know aren't on speaking terms but
the cost of a single colour powder coat is very attractive compared
to Rob's jobs. It's also a better value than any spray-bomb coating.
Powder-coat is hard to scratch but harder to touch-up convincingly.

I did a very thorough rattle can job using automotive paints.
The best thing about it is that it's proving easy to strip off.
I've also used name-brand rust inhibiting spray enamels. They're
almost as bad. "Krylon" products have worked the best for me. But, in
terms of durability, they're all much inferior to most stock paints
and coating.

I'm in the process of stripping a frame now and debating what to do
next. I'm thinking "camo".
--
zk

On Mon, 18 Sep 2006 19:49:47 -0700, Zoot Katz <[email hidden]>

Quoted message said:

tom fugate said:

anyone know a good source on frame painting how to??

My friend Rob.

He paints DeKerf's and Rocky Mountain's high-end bikes, among others.
He uses liquid paints. .

Rob and the powder coater I also know aren't on speaking terms but
the cost of a single colour powder coat is very attractive compared
to Rob's jobs. It's also a better value than any spray-bomb coating.
Powder-coat is hard to scratch but harder to touch-up convincingly.

I did a very thorough rattle can job using automotive paints.
The best thing about it is that it's proving easy to strip off.
I've also used name-brand rust inhibiting spray enamels. They're
almost as bad. "Krylon" products have worked the best for me. But, in
terms of durability, they're all much inferior to most stock paints
and coating.

I'm in the process of stripping a frame now and debating what to do
next. I'm thinking "camo".

You should try automotive paint if you're going the "bomb" route.

http://www.expresspaint.com/

is one paint supplier. BTW, it's all in the preperation of the
surface, wet sanding between coats, etc.

I read somewhere that some bike manufacturer's (Trek?) use(d) Imron
which is a really hard paint after it cures.

On Tue, 19 Sep 2006 03:06:01 GMT, R Brickston
<rb20170REMOVE.yahoo.com@> replied:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

I did a very thorough rattle can job using automotive paints.
The best thing about it is that it's proving easy to strip off.
I've also used name-brand rust inhibiting spray enamels. They're
almost as bad. "Krylon" products have worked the best for me. But, in
terms of durability, they're all much inferior to most stock paints
and coating.

I'm in the process of stripping a frame now and debating what to do
next. I'm thinking "camo".

You should try automotive paint if you're going the "bomb" route.

http://www.expresspaint.com/

is one paint supplier. BTW, it's all in the preperation of the
surface, wet sanding between coats, etc.

I used "chassis and roll-bar" paint and it didn't hold up as well as
plain ol' rust paint. Preparation is down to bare metal, buffed with
Scotch pads and wiped with solvent before beginning the primer coats.
Wet sanding too is part of the routine.

Quoted message said:

I read somewhere that some bike manufacturer's (Trek?) use(d) Imron
which is a really hard paint after it cures.

I have a bike done in Imron. It's held up well except the touch up
paint no longer matches the faded colour.

Rob said Trek's primer is the best he's seen. It resists his dip
tank.

He also passed on the tip that aircraft epoxy primers don't contain
the heavy fillers found in automotive epoxies.
--
zk

On Mon, 18 Sep 2006 21:11:29 -0700, Zoot Katz <[email hidden]>

Quoted message said:

On Tue, 19 Sep 2006 03:06:01 GMT, R Brickston
<rb20170REMOVE.yahoo.com@> replied:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

I did a very thorough rattle can job using automotive paints.
The best thing about it is that it's proving easy to strip off.
I've also used name-brand rust inhibiting spray enamels. They're
almost as bad. "Krylon" products have worked the best for me. But, in
terms of durability, they're all much inferior to most stock paints
and coating.

I'm in the process of stripping a frame now and debating what to do
next. I'm thinking "camo".

You should try automotive paint if you're going the "bomb" route.

http://www.expresspaint.com/

is one paint supplier. BTW, it's all in the preperation of the
surface, wet sanding between coats, etc.

I used "chassis and roll-bar" paint and it didn't hold up as well as
plain ol' rust paint. Preparation is down to bare metal, buffed with
Scotch pads and wiped with solvent before beginning the primer coats.
Wet sanding too is part of the routine.

If it's aluminum, you have to etch it with some kind of acid, although
I have seen self-etching primers.

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

I read somewhere that some bike manufacturer's (Trek?) use(d) Imron
which is a really hard paint after it cures.

I have a bike done in Imron. It's held up well except the touch up
paint no longer matches the faded colour.

Rob said Trek's primer is the best he's seen. It resists his dip
tank.

He also passed on the tip that aircraft epoxy primers don't contain
the heavy fillers found in automotive epoxies.

R Brickston said:

On Mon, 18 Sep 2006 21:11:29 -0700, Zoot Katz <[email hidden]>

Quoted message said:

On Tue, 19 Sep 2006 03:06:01 GMT, R Brickston
<rb20170REMOVE.yahoo.com@> replied:

Quoted message said:

>I did a very thorough rattle can job using automotive paints.
>The best thing about it is that it's proving easy to strip off.
>I've also used name-brand rust inhibiting spray enamels. They're
>almost as bad. "Krylon" products have worked the best for me. But, in
>terms of durability, they're all much inferior to most stock paints
>and coating.
>
>I'm in the process of stripping a frame now and debating what to do
>next. I'm thinking "camo".

You should try automotive paint if you're going the "bomb" route.

http://www.expresspaint.com/

is one paint supplier. BTW, it's all in the preperation of the
surface, wet sanding between coats, etc.

I used "chassis and roll-bar" paint and it didn't hold up as well as
plain ol' rust paint. Preparation is down to bare metal, buffed with
Scotch pads and wiped with solvent before beginning the primer coats.
Wet sanding too is part of the routine.

If it's aluminum, you have to etch it with some kind of acid, although
I have seen self-etching primers.

Which leads me to ask since my Cannondale's paint job got a nasty bit
of damage on the way over here (and no I can't blame the airline, it
was my fault from something sharp that wasn't secured well) ... I'd
been thinking of having the damaged spot and the "nnondale" sandblasted
off and getting an automotive painting place to repaint just that area
in the same black and green color scheme with something cute like
"小心带缌有玫瑰”"Be careful of the rose's thorns" which a)
comes from a pop song, b) is relevant because mountain biker's should
watch out for thorns and c) refers to my Chinese name.

Is it possible to just get _part_ of a frame repainted??

-M

email hidden said:

R Brickston said:

On Mon, 18 Sep 2006 21:11:29 -0700, Zoot Katz <[email hidden]>

Quoted message said:

On Tue, 19 Sep 2006 03:06:01 GMT, R Brickston
<rb20170REMOVE.yahoo.com@> replied:

>>I did a very thorough rattle can job using automotive paints.
>>The best thing about it is that it's proving easy to strip off.
>>I've also used name-brand rust inhibiting spray enamels. They're
>>almost as bad. "Krylon" products have worked the best for me. But, in
>>terms of durability, they're all much inferior to most stock paints
>>and coating.
>>
>>I'm in the process of stripping a frame now and debating what to do
>>next. I'm thinking "camo".
>
>You should try automotive paint if you're going the "bomb" route.
>
>http://www.expresspaint.com/
>
>is one paint supplier. BTW, it's all in the preperation of the
>surface, wet sanding between coats, etc.

I used "chassis and roll-bar" paint and it didn't hold up as well as
plain ol' rust paint. Preparation is down to bare metal, buffed with
Scotch pads and wiped with solvent before beginning the primer coats.
Wet sanding too is part of the routine.

If it's aluminum, you have to etch it with some kind of acid, although
I have seen self-etching primers.

Which leads me to ask since my Cannondale's paint job got a nasty bit
of damage on the way over here (and no I can't blame the airline, it
was my fault from something sharp that wasn't secured well) ... I'd
been thinking of having the damaged spot and the "nnondale" sandblasted
off and getting an automotive painting place to repaint just that area
in the same black and green color scheme with something cute like
"???????”"Be careful of the rose's thorns" which a)
comes from a pop song, b) is relevant because mountain biker's should
watch out for thorns and c) refers to my Chinese name.

Is it possible to just get _part_ of a frame repainted??

-M

Iwouldn't think sand blasting is the way to remove the damaged paint.
Probably wet sanding starting with 600 grit and working up to
800-1000, then blend in with new paint. Auto paint guys don't usually
do small jobs like that, I'd try a motorcycle specialist.

If you want to get the metal really clean and shiny prior to priming,
don't use a 3M ScotchBrite pad. Instead mount a 3M Scotch-Brite 9099
or the equivalent abrasive web pad in your electric drill, mount the
frame in a vise and go to it.

Don't I tried that route, and some attempts were actualy quite nice (the
last one even took an award at the Great Western bicycle Rally). But
unless you want to invest in a quality paint gun, compressor, quality
paint (expensive) and an oven to properly bake it on, you're better off
asking your LBS for a professional painter. They aren't all "Cycl-ART"
expensive. I had mine redone recently with a two tone candy apple. It
turned out goegeous and it only set me back $200.00.

- -
Comments and opinions compliments of,
"Your Friendly Neighborhood Wheelman"

My web Site:
http://geocities.com/czcorner

To E-mail me:
ChrisZCorner "at" webtv "dot" net

Quoted message said:

How good does powder coating look? I have the impression it doesn't
have the "depth" appearance of a nice paint job - am I right?

- Frank Krygowski

Just like paint, it depends. Depends on who does the prep, the work,
depends on what you want them to do, depends on the color, texture
choices, prep, etc.

I've had 3 bikes powdercoated so far:

1: my quad (inline bicycle built for 4). Purple. The color choice was
left to the powdercoater. Purple or black. This particular guy
normally did gym equipment in black. There are a couple of minor runs
and a couple of thin spots. This huge frame is probably harder to
paint than any other bike and it's pretty good overall. Done about 12
years ago, it still looks great. A couple of top tube scratches where
stokers dragged their cleats on the tubing when geting on/off the bike.

2: I had a 1952's schwinn kids balloon tired bike powdercoated. 5
parts, frame, fork, chain guard, both rims. More parts = more cost.
John Deere green. The bike was green & white before and I have a green
seat and green good year balloon tires. JD green is a simple request
to make from the local paint & powdercoat service (Rainbow in Cedar
Rapids, iowa) here in the agriculture midwest. There was a bit of
yellow metal flake floating around the air from a previous job that
wound up in it. Barely noticable but it did help the overall
appearance in the sun. The 'painter' said it looked too dull when
finished so he did a clear powdercoat coat gratis. That really helped.
The only problem was he removed all my masking tape before the clear
so it was a bear to reassemble the bike.

3. I had my 1960's schwinn typhoon powdercoated. Bright orange metal
flake with a clear coat. Yikes, this bike is so bright you can barely
stand to look at it in the sunlight. It looks like semi solid
liquid. Brighter than any bike paint job i've ever seen other than
orange safety paint. Looks great, no runs, no thin spots. Rainbow in
Cedar Rapids again. This did cost extra for the metal flake and clear
coat but I think it was worth it.

There is lots of stuff powdercoated that you normally couldn't tell
from a paint job. Often cheaper than a paint job and tyically much more
durable. Once out of the oven, it's done. No waiting days/weeks for a
cure time.

But powdercoat does have it's limits. Two tone is probably not a
reasonable option. Depending on who does it, the finished powdercoat
can be thicker so some components may be hard to install. I' have
never had decals applied that would get clear powdercoated over. I have
applied decals over the powdercoat and I see no reason why you couldn't
use a regular clear paint over that. Powercoat is really hard & tough
to remove from threads. You need to tap or machine everything out.

So if you are looking for an accurate resto job, go with paint by an
bicycle specific expert.

If you want a uniform color without decals, or panels or pinstriping or
different color lugs, lower cost, go powdercoat. Be sure to mask the
fork threads, bb shell interior, seat post, etc. Powdercoaters aren't
normally bicycle assemblers and just don't know any better and because
of the process, the powder will go everywhere it can.

Rick

R Brickston said:

On 20 Sep 2006 06:34:46 -0700, "[email hidden]"
<[email hidden]> wrote:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Which leads me to ask since my Cannondale's paint job got a nasty bit
of damage on the way over here (and no I can't blame the airline, it
was my fault from something sharp that wasn't secured well) ... I'd
been thinking of having the damaged spot and the "nnondale" sandblasted
off and getting an automotive painting place to repaint just that area
in the same black and green color scheme with something cute like
"???????""Be careful of the rose's thorns" which a)
comes from a pop song, b) is relevant because mountain bikers should
watch out for thorns and c) refers to my Chinese name.

Is it possible to just get _part_ of a frame repainted??

-M

Iwouldn't think sand blasting is the way to remove the damaged paint.

The person who first suggested repainting doesn't speak English. The
word she used regarding the removal of damaged paint was "sand" and
some other phoneme I don't know. I guessed at this being
"sandblasting."

Quoted message said:

Probably wet sanding starting with 600 grit and working up to
800-1000, then blend in with new paint.

But it should be doable without having to remove all the paint and
start from scratch? Yay!

Quoted message said:

Auto paint guys don't usually do small jobs like that, I'd try a motorcycle specialist.

The guys at the little bike shop are supposed to be looking for someone
for me. Most of the people who have had their bikes painted have gone
with solid colors and self designed decals. I'm looking for something
a bit fancier than that.

-M

Good day,

To qualify my credentials to comment on this topic - I am a NACE (National
Association of Corrosion Engineers) certified coating inspector and have
worked in the paint and coatings industry since 1979. For pure durability
and ease I would absolutely recommend powder coating. There are many
different types of coatings from fusion bonded epoxy to polyester urethane.
I suggest that the polyester urethane is by far the most durable in terms of
impact resistance, colour retention and gloss retention plus has exceptional
solvent resistance. Probably the next best choice would be Solvented
Polyester Urethane (as opposed to solventless as in powder coating). Brands
such as Imron or better yet Endura should be investigated. Spraying
solvented Polyurethane is NOT a job for an amateur. They are hazardous
(icocyanates) and can make even great painters look foolish if they are not
really familiar with the material. A motorcycle or automotive shop is
probable the place to look. Bicycle frames are difficult to spray because of
the multiple angles and such. keeping a "wet-edge" while spraying is
essential to a smooth finish yet difficult due to the configuration of the
frame. Powder coating has the distinct advantage of having slightly better
"film build" at sharp edges due to the elactrostatic deposition. I do wonder
about the baking temperatures if you are coating a frame with lugged and
brazed frame. What is the bake temp vs. what is the melting point of the
brazing alloy?

For me, I have a 2006 Catrike Road with a fantastic Candy apple green powder
coat and I am in the process of restoring a 1991 Bridgestone MB-1 (lugged
Ritchey Logic Tubing) and intend to powder coat. First I will "bead blast"
the frame to remove ALL old coatings, then powder coat using zinc followed
by polyester urethane. I expect to pay about $150.00 cdn for the work but I
generally get very good prices because I am in the industry.

OTOH, If all you want to do is pretty up an old frame then by all means get
yourself some spray cans. I would start with a good primer, zinc chromate
for aluminum and red-oxide for steel. I would then use acrylic for the
topcoats Keep the coats light and "build the film" letting it tack-off
(partially dry) in between coats. Expect as many as 6 coats. Note that
acrylics develop their final hardness weeks after being applied so be
patient. Acrylic has the added advantage of being water-borne thus safer.
"tom fugate" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

anyone know a good source on frame painting how to??