Frame metals questions

"Dukester" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Some questions about frame metals/materials. When looking for a touring
bike I keep seeing the Trek 520 recommended. I also see recommendations
that steel bikes make the best tourers. But the Trek is a Cro-Moly. Is
this what is meant by "steel"? I have an old Peugeot that says Reynolds

501

Quoted message said:

Chromoly. Is it considered a steel bike? A final note: a coworker is

trying

Quoted message said:

to sell me his old aluminum Cannondale road bike. When I ask him why he's
selling it he says that Aluminum frames wear out over time (and he'd give

me

Quoted message said:

a really good deal on it because of this. His new bike is Titanium).

BTW, the FAQ points to the Sheldon Brown page but it and the Henry James
page have nothing about the Chrom-oly (that I saw).

No this isn't a troll posting (People keep thinking my posts are for some
reason)

Cheers!
Duke

Yeah you got it right, chromoly however you spell it is steel. Most bikes
built since the late 60's or early 70's are made of this. Unless it is
aluminum or titanium. For commuting and touring many prefer steel vs
aluminum, this is most likely for the strength of the material.

Ken

Cro-Moly is a type of steel with Chromium (Cro) and Molybdenum (Moly)
added. Most steel is not just coked iron but has other metals added
for various reasons. So yes, the Trek 520 and the Peugeot are both
steel bikes.

- rick

"Dukester" wrote: (CLIP)Cro-Moly. Is

Quoted message said:

this what is meant by "steel"? (clip)aluminum Cannondale road bike. When
I ask him why he's
selling it he says that Aluminum frames wear out over time (clip)

^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
Crome-moly refers to the principal steel alloy that is used in bicycle
frames.

It is commonly accepted that aluminum frames are subject to fatigue, but it
takes a LONG time. He is honest in telling you that, but here's the dilema:
if he's selling it because he sees signs of fatigue failure, or just knows
it is so old that that will soon become a problem, then the bike is not a
good buy at ANY price. On the other hand, if he justified the purchase of
his new titanium bike by looking for an imagined problem with this one, you
may get a very good deal. I suggest you have a mechanic look it over. If
aluminum frames failed a lot in ordinary use, Cannondale would be out of
business.

Dukester said:

Some questions about frame metals/materials. When looking for a touring
bike I keep seeing the Trek 520 recommended. I also see recommendations
that steel bikes make the best tourers. But the Trek is a Cro-Moly. Is
this what is meant by "steel"? I have an old Peugeot that says Reynolds 501
Chromoly. Is it considered a steel bike? A final note: a coworker is trying
to sell me his old aluminum Cannondale road bike. When I ask him why he's
selling it he says that Aluminum frames wear out over time (and he'd give me
a really good deal on it because of this. His new bike is Titanium).

BTW, the FAQ points to the Sheldon Brown page but it and the Henry James
page have nothing about the Chrom-oly (that I saw).

No this isn't a troll posting (People keep thinking my posts are for some
reason)

Aw, heck no, Dukester. You don't have what it takes to be a
world-class troll.

A bona fide troll would ask what kind of bike they should buy: steel,
aluminum, titanium, or carbon fiber.

Say . . . that's an *excellent* question, though.... ;-)

Dukester said:

Some questions about frame metals/materials. When looking for a

touring

Quoted message said:

bike I keep seeing the Trek 520 recommended. I also see

recommendations

Quoted message said:

that steel bikes make the best tourers. But the Trek is a Cro-Moly.

Is

Quoted message said:

this what is meant by "steel"? I have an old Peugeot that says

Reynolds 501

Quoted message said:

Chromoly. Is it considered a steel bike?

Yes, as others explained, those are both steel. There are many alloys
of steel - that is, steel with small amounts of other fancy metals
thrown in to improve its properties.

Long ago (late 1970s) Schwinn sold some bikes with a special sticker
saying that the bikes were made of 1020 steel. 1020 is roughly what
nails are made of - that is, a very plain steel. They were bragging
only to the ignorant.

Chromium-Molybdenum alloys are good stuff. But bikes can be well-made
out of several other types of good stuff, too.

A final note: a coworker is trying

Quoted message said:

to sell me his old aluminum Cannondale road bike. When I ask him why

he's

Quoted message said:

selling it he says that Aluminum frames wear out over time (and he'd

give me

Quoted message said:

a really good deal on it because of this. His new bike is Titanium).

If the bike's in good shape, buy it quick and try to hide the smirk on
your face! My favorite bike is my 1986 Cannondale. It took me coast
to coast a couple years ago.

- Frank Krygowski

Dukester said:

But the Trek is a Cro-Moly. Is this what is meant by "steel"?

Yep. If a magnet sticks to it, it's steel!

Art Harris

Dukester said:

Some questions about frame metals/materials. When looking for a touring
bike I keep seeing the Trek 520 recommended. I also see recommendations
that steel bikes make the best tourers. But the Trek is a Cro-Moly. Is
this what is meant by "steel"?

Yes. Steel is a generic name for several iron alloys. All decent steel
bikes have a Cro(mium)-Moly(dnimum) alloy.

I have an old Peugeot that says Reynolds 501

Quoted message said:

Chromoly. Is it considered a steel bike?

Yes.

Quoted message said:

A final note: a coworker is trying
to sell me his old aluminum Cannondale road bike. When I ask him why he's
selling it he says that Aluminum frames wear out over time (and he'd give me
a really good deal on it because of this. His new bike is Titanium).

So, he's giving you a good deal because it is worn out????

Much, much more important than the metal is the fit and suitability. For
touring, you need to have things like racks, fenders, and comfortable
geometry. You need strength because of all the weight, and you need
durability. You can get this with aluminum, but it is probably easier to
find a good deal in steel. Also, if something does happen in East Bumf*,
you can get it welded if it's steel. Aluminum is beyond 'ol Joe down by
the crick who repairs stuff.

--

David L. Johnson

__o | The lottery is a tax on those who fail to understand
_`\(,_ | mathematics.
(_)/ (_) |

Leo Lichtman said:

It is commonly accepted that aluminum frames are subject to fatigue, but it
takes a LONG time.

All metals fatigue; the problem with aluminum is that it goes very quickly
from an initial crack to total failure; steel is much more gradual in this
respect. Because of the potential for catastrophic failure with aluminum,
most Al frames are drastically overbuilt. A side effect of this is that
the frame will be much stiffer, and this charateristic has been parlayed
into a marketing feature over the years.

--

John ([email hidden])

Art Harris said:

Dukester said:

But the Trek is a Cro-Moly. Is this what is meant by "steel"?

Yep. If a magnet sticks to it, it's steel!

Even, sometimes, if not. Lots of stainless steels only vaguely attract
magnets.

--

David L. Johnson

__o | "Business!" cried the Ghost. "Mankind was my business. The
_`\(,_ | common welfare was my business; charity, mercy, forbearance,
(_)/ (_) | and benevolence, were, all, my business. The dealings of my
trade were but a drop of water in the comprehensive ocean of my
business!" --Dickens, "A Christmas Carol"

Leo Lichtman said:

"Dukester" wrote: (CLIP)Cro-Moly. Is

Quoted message said:

this what is meant by "steel"? (clip)aluminum Cannondale road bike. When
I ask him why he's
selling it he says that Aluminum frames wear out over time (clip)

^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
Crome-moly refers to the principal steel alloy that is used in bicycle
frames.

It is commonly accepted that aluminum frames are subject to fatigue, but it
takes a LONG time.

That depends on the frame.

Quoted message said:

He is honest in telling you that, but here's the dilema:
if he's selling it because he sees signs of fatigue failure,

What signs would those be?

--

David L. Johnson

__o | Enron's slogan: Respect, Communication, Integrity, and
_`\(,_ | Excellence.
(_)/ (_) |

"David L. Johnson" <[email hidden]> wrote in
news:[email hidden]:

Quoted message said:

Leo Lichtman said:

"Dukester" wrote: (CLIP)Cro-Moly. Is

Quoted message said:

this what is meant by "steel"? (clip)aluminum Cannondale road
bike. When I ask him why he's
selling it he says that Aluminum frames wear out over time
(clip)

^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
Crome-moly refers to the principal steel alloy that is used in
bicycle frames.

It is commonly accepted that aluminum frames are subject to
fatigue, but it takes a LONG time.

That depends on the frame.

Quoted message said:

He is honest in telling you that, but here's the dilema:
if he's selling it because he sees signs of fatigue failure,

What signs would those be?

The desire for a new Ti frame.

Leo Lichtman said:

Leo: if he's selling it because he sees signs of fatigue failure,
David: What signs would those be?
Leo: Something like a tiny crack at a weld, or right next to a weld, for
instance.

I was wondering what "signs" there would be short of failure itself. A
crack is failure, in my book.

--

David L. Johnson

__o | Enron's slogan: Respect, Communication, Integrity, and
_`\(,_ | Excellence.
(_)/ (_) |

Dukester said:

Some questions about frame metals/materials. When looking for a touring
bike I keep seeing the Trek 520 recommended. I also see recommendations
that steel bikes make the best tourers. But the Trek is a Cro-Moly. Is
this what is meant by "steel"? I have an old Peugeot that says Reynolds 501
Chromoly. Is it considered a steel bike? A final note: a coworker is trying
to sell me his old aluminum Cannondale road bike. When I ask him why he's
selling it he says that Aluminum frames wear out over time (and he'd give me
a really good deal on it because of this. His new bike is Titanium).

There are a number of metals, all with different strengths, and
different weaknesses. Steel is strong, lasts well as long as it's
protected from the elements. The weakness is that it's heavy.
Chromium, Molybedenium and Titanium, Aluminum, Tin, Brass and Copper are
other metals. Chromium and Molybedenium are often added to steel (to
make an alloy) that is stronger still, so that the frame builder can use
thinner tubing, to lighten the weight.

Aluminum is very light weight, but is a fairly weak metal, so often it's
mixed with other things to add strength, tubes are often very thick but
the light weight compensates for having more metal. As others will say,
Aluminum is subject to sudden failure, welds and joints are where all
metals typically will fail.

Carbon Fibre is a plastic material, it has strength, light weight, but
like all plastics can get brittle when it's cold out.

Titanium is a common enough metal, and seems to be good, but is still
fairly expensive. Other then cost, I have't heard of any real problems
with it.....

If you were buying a bike that you want to be able to ride into your
sunset years, then the extra cost of titanium might be worth it,
otherwise go for one of the steel alloys.....

W

Quoted message said:

BTW, the FAQ points to the Sheldon Brown page but it and the Henry James
page have nothing about the Chrom-oly (that I saw).

No this isn't a troll posting (People keep thinking my posts are for some
reason)

Cheers!
Duke

David L. Johnson said:

Quoted message said:

Some questions about frame metals/materials. When looking for a touring
bike I keep seeing the Trek 520 recommended. I also see recommendations
that steel bikes make the best tourers. But the Trek is a Cro-Moly. Is
this what is meant by "steel"?

Yes. Steel is a generic name for several iron alloys. All decent steel
bikes have a Cro(mium)-Moly(dnimum) alloy.

Not to put too fine a point on it, but many, many, "decent" steel
bikes have been constructed with Reynold 531, which is decidedly NOT
Cro-Moly.

I'm pretty certain if I did some thorough research I'd find quality
tube-sets made by Columbus, Tange, Vitus, et al, that were not
Cro-Moly.

jeverett3<AT>earthlink<DOT>net http://home.earthlink.net/~jeverett3

John Everett said:

David L. Johnson said:

Quoted message said:

Some questions about frame metals/materials. When looking for a touring
bike I keep seeing the Trek 520 recommended. I also see recommendations
that steel bikes make the best tourers. But the Trek is a Cro-Moly. Is
this what is meant by "steel"?

Yes. Steel is a generic name for several iron alloys. All decent steel
bikes have a Cro(mium)-Moly(dnimum) alloy.

Not to put too fine a point on it, but many, many, "decent" steel
bikes have been constructed with Reynold 531, which is decidedly NOT
Cro-Moly.

Really? I thought it was.

--

David L. Johnson

__o | "A foolish consistency is the hobgoblin of little minds, adored
_`\(,_ | by little statesmen and philosophers and divines." --Ralph Waldo
(_)/ (_) | Emerson

David L. Johnson said:

On Fri, 22 Apr 2005 15:33:12 +0000, John Everett wrote:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Not to put too fine a point on it, but many, many, "decent" steel
bikes have been constructed with Reynold 531, which is decidedly

NOT

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Cro-Moly.

Really? I thought it was.

Nope. Manganese-Molybdenum, IIRC.

- Frank Krygowski

Quoted message said:

Aluminum is very light weight, but is a fairly weak metal, so often it's
mixed with other things to add strength, tubes are often very thick but
the light weight compensates for having more metal.

No. Often the diameter of the tubes are made larger to reduce the bending
stresses, but the wall thicknesses are usually no more, and can be less,
than steel tubes.

Quoted message said:

Carbon Fibre is a plastic material, it has strength, light weight, but
like all plastics can get brittle when it's cold out.

All materials become susceptible to brittle fracture at low temperatures,
but the temperature is typically below that any of us will experience.

Chris Neary
[email hidden]

"Science, freedom, beauty, adventure: what more could
you ask of life? Bicycling combined all the elements I
loved" - Adapted from a quotation by Charles Lindbergh

Quoted message said:

All metals fatigue; the problem with aluminum is that it goes very quickly
from an initial crack to total failure; steel is much more gradual in this
respect. Because of the potential for catastrophic failure with aluminum,
most Al frames are drastically overbuilt. A side effect of this is that
the frame will be much stiffer, and this charateristic has been parlayed
into a marketing feature over the years.

Some metals (steel and ti, for instance), exhibit a minimum stress value at
which fatigue failure will never occur. Aluminum, on the other hand, does
not.

Chris Neary
[email hidden]

"Science, freedom, beauty, adventure: what more could
you ask of life? Bicycling combined all the elements I
loved" - Adapted from a quotation by Charles Lindbergh

David L. Johnson said:

Dukester said:

Some questions about frame metals/materials. When looking for a touring
bike I keep seeing the Trek 520 recommended. I also see recommendations
that steel bikes make the best tourers. But the Trek is a Cro-Moly. Is
this what is meant by "steel"?

Quoted message said:

Yes. Steel is a generic name for several iron alloys. All decent steel
bikes have a Cro(mium)-Moly(dnimum) alloy.

Not all. Reynolds 531 and 753 are Manganese/Molybdenum alloy steel.

--

John ([email hidden])