Fractured front cog?

Badger_South wrote: {OP snipped}

Quoted message said:

That link doesn't work for me. At anyrate, be sure and carry extra
duct tape in case the cob breaks 30 miles frome home, eh? ;-D

****

That's just corny advice!

Bill "sure you meant 'cogg' ;-) " S.

Dear Bikers,

I fear my bike has a fracture in its front cog. I first noticed something
was wrong when I heard the front cog hitting against the front derailleur
once every revolution of the pedals. It turned out the front cog was
actually bent and so "wobbled" as it rotated, relative to the front
derailleur. Closer inspection showed that the front cog was a little loose
and could be jiggled a little. The join between the front cog and the right
pedal was clearly loose.

I took the right pedal off and found a little crack in the front cog. Some
photos are here:

http://www.xlk.org.uk/forum/modules.php?set_albumName=Bike&op=modload&name=gallery&file=index&include=view_album.php

Is this a fracture? If so, how dangerous is it? Can I ride my bike with
this fracture? Do I need a new front cog & right pedal?

Thanks,
Jack

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"S o r n i" wrote: (clip) Bill "sure you meant 'cogg' ;-) " S.
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
I think he really meant "chainring." :-)

I couldn't get the link to work, either, but I would not ride with a
chainring that might fail. Not only do you risk being stranded with nothing
but a roll of duct tape--if it happens when you are pressing hard on the
pedal, you could hurt yourself. :-(

Leo Lichtman said:

"S o r n i" wrote: (clip) Bill "sure you meant 'cogg' ;-) " S.
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
I think he really meant "chainring." :-)

I was referring to Badger's typo ("cob"😉, which you snipped (and then
referred to the OP).

Bill "you butchered Badger badly buddy" S.

Hi guys,

Thanks for all your replies.

Sorry about the failed link. It turns out my web hosts have taken their
servers off-line for some maintanance. It should be back online soon.

In the mean time, I'll try to attach a pic to this mail.

Thanks,
Jack

"Leo Lichtman" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

"S o r n i" wrote: (clip) Bill "sure you meant 'cogg' ;-) " S.
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
I think he really meant "chainring." :-)

I couldn't get the link to work, either, but I would not ride with a
chainring that might fail. Not only do you risk being stranded with

nothing

Quoted message said:

but a roll of duct tape--if it happens when you are pressing hard on the
pedal, you could hurt yourself. :-(

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M<GDO.*]CSG8EV),VVAR(`( ```````$,``0P`0````````````Q `%)2;<;V

Arg!

Try these links:

http://www.ucl.ac.uk/~ucgadak/fracture1.jpg
http://www.ucl.ac.uk/~ucgadak/fracture2.jpg
http://www.ucl.ac.uk/~ucgadak/fracture3.jpg

Thanks!
Jack

"Daniel Kelly (AKA Jack)" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Hi guys,

Thanks for all your replies.

Sorry about the failed link. It turns out my web hosts have taken their
servers off-line for some maintanance. It should be back online soon.

In the mean time, I'll try to attach a pic to this mail.

Thanks,
Jack

"Leo Lichtman" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

"S o r n i" wrote: (clip) Bill "sure you meant 'cogg' ;-) " S.
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
I think he really meant "chainring." :-)

I couldn't get the link to work, either, but I would not ride with a
chainring that might fail. Not only do you risk being stranded with

nothing

Quoted message said:

but a roll of duct tape--if it happens when you are pressing hard on the
pedal, you could hurt yourself. :-(

Daniel Kelly \(AKA Jack\) said:

Hi guys,

Thanks for all your replies.

Sorry about the failed link. It turns out my web hosts have taken their
servers off-line for some maintanance. It should be back online soon.

In the mean time, I'll try to attach a pic to this mail.

Thanks,
Jack

Hey Jack, hope you didn't mind the bit of teasing. Given that the bike is a
somewhat 'delicate' piece of machinery but with often great stress placed
upon the components, as a rule of thumb, if you find -anything- wrong with
either the frame or the components, get it repaired or replaced as quickly
as possible. Luckily, this is an easily replaced component. In fact you can
use this opportunity to upgrade to a better piece of componentry, something
lighter or stronger.

Metal has interesting properties, toughness, ductility, brittleness,
resistant to compression in a certain plane, but not in other planes. When
you're dealing with a machined part which is also cut out to reduce weight,
you may have a very strong part as is - but if you have a fracture in that
part, it may become unusually weak.

Certainly we're not dealing with stresses like those in fast moving parts
like airplane propellers, but consider what others have said - if the part
fails in the middle of a fast downhill, or as you put pressure on it to
cross a busy street - well, you're playing with fire. Always, always check
out your ride, and if you notice something 'odd', it's prudent to stop and
check it out. You may not see an obvious fault, but in this case it's
staring right at you. If you're 10 miles from home, you could take a risk
and go slowly and cautiously, but I would strongly advise you get it
replaced before you ride it again.

I had a bent brake lever from running into the side of a bridge, avoiding a
pedestrian. I didn't get it fixed right away, b/c I was upgrading my ride,
but when the bike mechanic saw it he said I was lucky I didn't try to
straighten it, b/c being aluminum, it would likely have snapped off. That
would have been fun, 10 miles from home and only one set of brakes! ;-)

-Badger

Quoted message said:

"Leo Lichtman" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

"S o r n i" wrote: (clip) Bill "sure you meant 'cogg' ;-) " S.
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
I think he really meant "chainring." :-)

I couldn't get the link to work, either, but I would not ride with a
chainring that might fail. Not only do you risk being stranded with

nothing

Quoted message said:

but a roll of duct tape--if it happens when you are pressing hard on the
pedal, you could hurt yourself. :-(

Leo wrote: I think he really meant "chainring." :-)
^^^^^^^^^^
I was referring to Badger's typo ("cob"😉, which you snipped (and then
referred to the OP).
^^^^^^^^^^^^
Sorry, Sorni...I always do that, since I assume that everyone reads these
posts in order. I did get your joke, and thought it was funny. My line
might have been, also, with better timing.

Daniel Kelly \(AKA Jack\) said:

I fear my bike has a fracture in its front cog. I first noticed something
was wrong when I heard the front cog hitting against the front derailleur
once every revolution of the pedals. It turned out the front cog was
actually bent and so "wobbled" as it rotated, relative to the front
derailleur. Closer inspection showed that the front cog was a little loose
and could be jiggled a little. The join between the front cog and the right
pedal was clearly loose.

I took the right pedal off and found a little crack in the front cog. Some
photos are here:

[snipped]

Quoted message said:

Is this a fracture?

Yes. It looks like you've got a typical non-repairable crank set
there. The large and small sprockets (also called chainrings) are
both riveted to the middle-size one, and the middle sprocket has the
splines broached into the center to mate with the hub. Unfortunately,
these almost never can be disassembled nondestructively, and no
replacement parts for the individual pieces are sold in any event.

Quoted message said:

If so, how dangerous is it?

It will continue to wear away at the teeth of the splined stub on the
crank, and will get wobblier as it does so, eventually failing in a
rather final manner if your patience isn't tried to the point of
launching it into the North Sea first due to the chain rubbing and
such.

Quoted message said:

Can I ride my bike with
this fracture?

For a while, with increasing inconvenience, probably yes. It is,
however, very difficult to forecast the rate of deterioration.

Quoted message said:

Do I need a new front cog & right pedal?

You need what is called a "crank set" by some vendors, a "chain set"
by others. The terminological uncertainty is vexing. What you will
buy is two cranks (the arms into which the pedals are screwed), of
which one will have a set of sprockets on it.

Count the teeth on the old sprockets and shop for a crank set whose
tooth count and crank length (probably 170mm, but measure to make
sure) matches what you have now. Your old one looks like a Sunrace
Apex set; you won't find the same make and model available as a spare
in all likelihood, but there are a number of alternate choices
available.

Bear in mind that you may need to replace the bottom bracket (this is
the confusing name used in the industry for the bearing and shaft
assembly on which the cranks are mounted) if the length of your
existing shaft is not a close match for the requirements of the
replacement cranks.

If there is a shop in your area which acts as a breaking yard for old
bikes, you might be able to secure a used replacement crank and
sprockets from them inexpensively. If this is a bike that you rely
upon for transportation, I would advise buying new.
--
Typoes are a feature, not a bug.
Some gardening required to reply via email.
Surrealism is a pectinated ranzel.

--
rec.bicycles.off-road is moderated by volunteers. To find help solving
posting problems, or contact the moderators, please see http://rbor.org/
Please read the charter before posting: http://rbor.org/rbor_charter.txt

Leo Lichtman said:

Leo wrote: I think he really meant "chainring." :-)
^^^^^^^^^^
I was referring to Badger's typo ("cob"😉, which you snipped (and then
referred to the OP).
^^^^^^^^^^^^
Sorry, Sorni...I always do that, since I assume that everyone reads
these posts in order. I did get your joke, and thought it was funny.
My line might have been, also, with better timing.

Ba-rumdum!

Bill "just back from a fast (for me) 40-miler" S.

Werehatrack said:

Daniel Kelly \(AKA Jack\) said:

I fear my bike has a fracture in its front cog. I first noticed something
was wrong when I heard the front cog hitting against the front derailleur
once every revolution of the pedals. It turned out the front cog was
actually bent and so "wobbled" as it rotated, relative to the front
derailleur. Closer inspection showed that the front cog was a little loose
and could be jiggled a little. The join between the front cog and the right
pedal was clearly loose.

I took the right pedal off and found a little crack in the front cog. Some
photos are here:

[snipped]

Quoted message said:

Is this a fracture?

Yes. It looks like you've got a typical non-repairable crank set
there. The large and small sprockets (also called chainrings) are
both riveted to the middle-size one, and the middle sprocket has the
splines broached into the center to mate with the hub. Unfortunately,
these almost never can be disassembled nondestructively, and no
replacement parts for the individual pieces are sold in any event.

Great answer! Had all the specifics that other replies (including my dumb
comments about metal fatigue, heh) lacked. Very informative.

-Badger

Hi Badger,

Many thanks for your replies. All very useful.

Thanks,
Jack.

"Badger_South" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

On 5 Jul 2004 21:55:08 GMT, Werehatrack <[email hidden]>

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Daniel Kelly \(AKA Jack\) said:

I fear my bike has a fracture in its front cog. I first noticed

something

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

was wrong when I heard the front cog hitting against the front

derailleur

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

once every revolution of the pedals. It turned out the front cog was
actually bent and so "wobbled" as it rotated, relative to the front
derailleur. Closer inspection showed that the front cog was a little

loose

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

and could be jiggled a little. The join between the front cog and the

right

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

pedal was clearly loose.

I took the right pedal off and found a little crack in the front cog.

Some

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

photos are here:

[snipped]

Quoted message said:

Is this a fracture?

Yes. It looks like you've got a typical non-repairable crank set
there. The large and small sprockets (also called chainrings) are
both riveted to the middle-size one, and the middle sprocket has the
splines broached into the center to mate with the hub. Unfortunately,
these almost never can be disassembled nondestructively, and no
replacement parts for the individual pieces are sold in any event.

Great answer! Had all the specifics that other replies (including my dumb
comments about metal fatigue, heh) lacked. Very informative.

-Badger

Daniel Kelly (AKA Jack) said:

Dear Bikers,

I fear my bike has a fracture in its front cog. I first noticed something
was wrong when I heard the front cog hitting against the front derailleur
once every revolution of the pedals. It turned out the front cog was
actually bent and so "wobbled" as it rotated, relative to the front
derailleur. Closer inspection showed that the front cog was a little loose
and could be jiggled a little. The join between the front cog and the right
pedal was clearly loose.

I took the right pedal off and found a little crack in the front cog. Some
photos are here:

http://www.xlk.org.uk/forum/modules.php?set_albumName=Bike&op=modload&name=gallery&file=index&include=view_album.php

Is this a fracture? If so, how dangerous is it? Can I ride my bike with
this fracture? Do I need a new front cog & right pedal?

Thanks,
Jack

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Jack - your crankset appears to be worn out.
You need at least a new crankset, but more likely a new drive train...
chain, crankset (front chainrings & pedal crankarms in your case), rear
casset. It's a pity, but metal wears down.
Best, Bernie

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An excellent summary of the problem and solution.

I might add that frequently the chain stretches over time and begins to chew
into the side of the chainring teeth. It also chews into the teeth of the
rear cassette (the cluster of rings on the back wheel). So if you replace
the chainrings, the old chain may give poor performance - grinding, chain
suck and such. I found that I had to replace them as a set on my bike.

Luckily I had a newer cassette to replace my old one on the back wheel.
Otherwise the new chain probably would have had bad shifting and skipping on
the rear cassette. Hope this doesn't happen to you, but be aware that if
the new crankset causes noise in the rear of your drive train, that's likely
the cause.

Cheers
Gary

"Werehatrack" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

On Mon, 5 Jul 2004 11:03:27 CST, "Daniel Kelly \(AKA Jack\)"
<[email hidden]> wrote:

< snip >

Quoted message said:

Bear in mind that you may need to replace the bottom bracket (this is
the confusing name used in the industry for the bearing and shaft
assembly on which the cranks are mounted) if the length of your
existing shaft is not a close match for the requirements of the
replacement cranks.

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