former bike shop

Claire Petersky said:

Yesterday, I went to my former bike shop. I bought my first
roadie shoes there, my first bicycle computer, and my first
SPD pedals, and they did lots of work on my bike for a
while. But the one decent guy who worked there left, and I
didn't see much reason to remain as their customer.

My reasons for not being their customer any more was
underscored when I went in to the bike shop. The only
reason why I was in there was I had business at another
store in the strip mall, and I thought I'd stop by. So I
did -- why not?

Three employees were sitting around (literally -- in
folding chairs, in the center of the store) talking to each
other. I came in, and headed to their more expensive road
bikes. I fingered the merchandise, and talked to my
daughter about what I'd be interested in, in a new bike. I
went over to the clothing, and rummaged through the 30% off
on all 2003 bike clothes rack. I peered into the case at
the counter.

Never once did anyone greet me, ask what I might be
interested in, try to sell me a bike, clothes, or
accessories. For that matter, considering that probably two
of them were wrenches, were any of them working on bikes.

Your accoutn tells a tale... Bernie

Claire Petersky said:

Never once did anyone greet me, ask what I might be
interested in, try to sell me a bike, clothes, or
accessories. For that matter, considering that probably two
of them were wrenches, were any of them working on bikes.

They, umm, didn't want to...bother you. Yeah, that's
the ticket!
--
Rick Onanian

Tue, 01 Jun 2004 03:12:54 GMT, <VuSuc.34729$n_6.5249@attbi_s53>,

Claire Petersky said:

But the one decent guy who worked there left, and I didn't
see much reason to remain as their customer.

Find out where he's working now. Hairdressers, mechanics,
plumbers, chefs etc. often keep _their_ clients after
changing employers.
--
zk

In VuSuc.34729$n_6.5249@attbi_s53 said:

Never once did anyone greet me, ask what I might be
interested in, try to sell me a bike, clothes, or
accessories.

Strangely enough, this is what I prefer. I don't actually
want someone to try to sell me anything that I haven't come
in to buy. I usually just want to conduct my business in the
most efficient way possible, and to be left alone if I
haven't asked for anything.

For me, the test comes when I actually need help: if I ask
for help and it seems like I am bothering the sales staff or
if they are going to treat me like a fred or whatnot, then
that's my signal to not come back.

Quoted message said:

For that matter, considering that probably two of them
were wrenches, were any of them working on bikes.

I guess the place isn't a sweatshop, but if you've had bad
experiences with long service times before then I can see
your point.

--
Herbie J. Famous Curator

According to Claire Petersky <[email hidden]>:

Quoted message said:

Never once did anyone greet me, ask what I might be
interested in, try to sell me a bike, clothes, or
accessories. For that matter, considering that probably two
of them were wrenches, were any of them working on bikes.

You'd rather they were breathing down your neck sparring
with one another for the measly 1% commission that some
shops pay? That sounds miserable.

I'm sure if you asked for help they would have been happy to
talk bikes with you.

----
Lars Lehtonen

On 1 Jun 2004 08:12:15 GMT, Lars Lehtonen <[email hidden]>

Quoted message said:

You'd rather they were breathing down your neck sparring
with one another for the measly 1% commission that some
shops pay? That sounds miserable.

I'm sure if you asked for help they would have been happy
to talk bikes with you.

There is certainly room in between, as in one coming over
and asking if they needed any help in locating what they are
looking for. Whatever the commission may be is irrelevant -
if they are unhappy with what they are paid, they can try a
place that expects them to work.

Curtis L. Russell Odenton, MD (USA) Just someone on
two wheels...

On 1 Jun 2004 08:12:15 GMT, Lars Lehtonen <[email hidden]>

Quoted message said:

You'd rather they were breathing down your neck sparring
with one another for the measly 1% commission that some
shops pay? That sounds miserable.

A simple "Is there anything I can help you with?" is a
good balance.
--
Rick Onanian

"Lars Lehtonen" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
"]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

According to Claire Petersky <[email hidden]>:

Quoted message said:

Never once did anyone greet me, ask what I might be
interested in, try to sell me a bike, clothes, or
accessories. For that matter, considering that
probably two of them were wrenches, were any of them
working on bikes.

You'd rather they were breathing down your neck sparring
with one another for the measly 1% commission that some
shops pay? That sounds miserable.

Having worked retail, what I would have done was: hauled my
bulk out of my folding chair, turned to the shopper, and
said something like: "looking at those Treks? Need any
help?" If the person replied something like, "no, just
browsing", then I'd say, "OK, just let me know if you need
anything", and then settled myself back down on my folding
chair. This isn't breathing down necks, this is
acknowledging the presence of another human being.

I also suspect, but have no evidence for, that strikes
against me were my age, and me looking at road bikes. Being
female was also probably against me, too, as I was therefore
not to be taken seriously -- although probably a

respect.

Quoted message said:

I'm sure if you asked for help they would have been happy
to talk bikes with you.

Nah, they were too busy talking amongst themselves. I didn't
want to interrupt them.

--
Warm Regards,

Claire Petersky Please replace earthlink for mouse-potato
and .net for .com Home of the meditative cyclist:
home.earthlink.netWelcome.htmOpen ↗ See the
books I've set free at:
bookcrossing.comCpeterskyOpen ↗

Claire:

While I understand and respect the opinions of others who
have replied, I also understand exactly what you mean. It
isn't just bike shops, though. If storeowners only knew how
much business they lose by hiring unknowledgeable sales
people who are afraid to approach customers, they would
probably shape up pretty fast.

I constantly walk out of stores with money burning a hole in
my pocket. One day recently, I had $3,000 to spend on a
laptop computer that I absolutely needed the very next day.
I walked into a well-known national mega computer chain
store and found three young salespeople gathered around a
23" monitor playing a video game. I told them I needed to
buy a laptop in a hurry and that it was my first time buying
one. Without looking up from the screen, two of them pointed
me to the aisle with the laptops and one said "The laptops
are over there." Needless to say, I walked out after two
minutes of trying to sell myself a laptop.

Even more recently, I walked into my neighborhood bike shop
on a Sunday to buy my wife the brand new bicycle I'd been
promising her forever. We're both really busy and this was
the only time we could arrange to shop for the bike
together. Again, the money was in my pocket and there was no
way we weren't buying a bike that day. Well, it was Sunday,
and the owner, whom I know very well and really wanted to
give the business, decided to take the day off and leave two
high school kids running the store. My wife and I walked in
and started fumbling our way through the hundreds of bikes
on display. I even pulled a few from the racks to size her
up. In all the time we were shopping, the two kids at the
counter never even looked up from their conversation about
"hot chicks." When I asked if one could help, his response
was "What are you looking for?" I told him "A bike for my
wife." "What kind?" he replied. "Probably a hybrid." I said.
"What size?" he asked. "I'm not sure...she needs to be sized
up." He then brought my wife to the closest female hybrid in
the showroom, asked her to get on, then asked "Does THAT
feel like the right size?" We bought my wife's bike
somewhere else.

This happens to me all the time, and I've made a habit of
skipping out of stores that do this to me. I guess I'm just
getting old. I used to like to be left alone when I was
shopping, but that was when I was young and thought I knew
more about everything than anybody. Now that I'm older and
realize I'm not so smart, I need to be "sold" by
salesperson before I'll buy anything. My final example is
the $150,000 home renovation for which my wife and I are
trying to book contractors, designers, and architects. Highly-
recommended tradespeople of all sorts have been escorted
out our door for making the same mistake: They ask us "what
we want" and tell us "they'll do whatever we want." We've
made it clear to all these people that we need guidance,
that we've never done this before and we need input from
experienced professionals. Still, they come to the house
and get frustrated if we don't know whether we want flush
beams or soffits in our kitchen. The first kitchen designer
who said to us "This is what you do and here's why" got a
big gig out of us.

I think store owners should take this as a warning. The
biggest reason people still shop in retail stores,
rather than buying things cheaper online, is for the
interaction with knowledgeable salespeople who can guide
us through the selection and buying process. Once that
benefit is eliminated, we might as well all buy blindly
via the Internet.

."Claire Petersky" <[email hidden]> wrote in
message news:VuSuc.34729$n_6.5249@attbi_s53...

Quoted message said:

Yesterday, I went to my former bike shop. I bought my
first roadie shoes there, my first bicycle computer, and
my first SPD pedals, and they did

lots

Quoted message said:

of work on my bike for a while. But the one decent guy who
worked there left, and I didn't see much reason to remain
as their customer.

My reasons for not being their customer any more was
underscored when I

went

Quoted message said:

in to the bike shop. The only reason why I was in there
was I had business at another store in the strip mall, and
I thought I'd stop by. So I did -- why not?

Three employees were sitting around (literally -- in
folding chairs, in

the

Quoted message said:

center of the store) talking to each other. I came in, and
headed to their more expensive road bikes. I fingered the
merchandise, and talked to my daughter about what I'd be
interested in, in a new bike. I went over to

the

Quoted message said:

clothing, and rummaged through the 30% off on all 2003
bike clothes rack.

I

Quoted message said:

peered into the case at the counter.

Never once did anyone greet me, ask what I might be
interested in, try to sell me a bike, clothes, or
accessories. For that matter, considering that
probably two of them were wrenches, were any of them
working on bikes.

--
Warm Regards,

Claire Petersky Please replace earthlink for mouse-potato
and .net for .com Home of the meditative cyclist:
home.earthlink.netWelcome.htmOpen ↗ See the
books I've set free at:
bookcrossing.comCpeterskyOpen ↗

"Rick Onanian" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
"]news:[email hidden]...
: On 1 Jun 2004 08:12:15 GMT, Lars Lehtonen
<[email hidden]>
: wrote:
: >You'd rather they were breathing down your neck sparring
with one
: >another for the measly 1% commission that some shops pay?
That sounds
: >miserable.
:
: A simple "Is there anything I can help you with?" is a
good balance.
: --
: Rick Onanian

Better (IMHO)--from the retailer's perspective--is any
question NOT readily answered "yes" or "no."

"What kind of cycling are you into?"

"Ah, Cannondales. Good choice. What type of bike do you
have now?"

"Looking for a bike for yourself or for somebody else?"

...etc., etc. Get the customer talking. They'll tell you
what they want . . . even if it's just to be left alone ;-)

Sorry, Claire. Welcome to retail!

Claire Petersky said:

Having worked retail, what I would have done was: hauled
my bulk out of my folding chair, turned to the shopper,
and said something like: "looking at those Treks? Need any
help?" If the person replied something like, "no, just
browsing", then I'd say, "OK, just let me know if you need
anything", and then settled myself back down on my folding
chair. This isn't breathing down necks, this is
acknowledging the presence of another human being.

I also suspect, but have no evidence for, that strikes
against me were my age, and me looking at road bikes.
Being female was also probably against me, too, as I was
therefore not to be taken

Quoted message said:

might have gotten some attention, if not respect.

Quoted message said:

I'm sure if you asked for help they would have been happy
to talk bikes with you.

Nah, they were too busy talking amongst themselves. I
didn't want to interrupt them.

As a business owner, I've always felt empathy or comraderie
with other business owners. In the past I might have let the
owner/manager know about my experience. But it seems just as
many of them have bad attitudes too. So these days, I just
let people dig their own graves, and hope someone better
steps in to fill the void. Unfortunately, many small
businesses are immune to normal market forces -- daddy owns
the building, etc. And if a location is good enough, repeat
business may not be an issue -- note how many really crappy
restaurants seem to hang on for decades.

Matt O.

In article <[email hidden]>,

Zoot Katz said:

Tue, 01 Jun 2004 03:12:54 GMT,
<VuSuc.34729$n_6.5249@attbi_s53>, "Claire Petersky" <cpetersky@mouse-

potato.com said:

But the one decent guy who worked there left, and I didn't
see much reason to remain as their customer.

Find out where he's working now. Hairdressers, mechanics,
plumbers, chefs etc. often keep _their_ clients after
changing employers.

Chinese restaurants are like that too, but it's a task to
keep track of which cooks are working where.

My usual tactic to get service is to look like a shoplifter.
Although sometimes I've come close to having to push the
button on the till that opens the cash drawer and makes the
bell ring, to get any attention.

Flashing a big wad of cash sometimes works, too.

cheers, Tom

--
-- Powered by FreeBSD Above address is just a spam midden.
I'm really at: tkeats [curlicue] vcn [point] bc [point] ca

On Tue, 1 Jun 2004 13:43:14 -0700, [email hidden] (Tom Keats)

Quoted message said:

Flashing a big wad of cash sometimes works, too.

Doesn't work in one Warwick, RI store. On more than one
occasions, I've stood unattended for ten or twenty minutes
at the cash register with cash visible in one hand and
something I want to purchase in the other. I'd say this is
my experience for at least 40% of my visits there.
--
Rick Onanian

In article <[email hidden]>,

Rick Onanian said:

On Tue, 1 Jun 2004 13:43:14 -0700, [email hidden]

(Tom Keats) said:

Flashing a big wad of cash sometimes works, too.

Doesn't work in one Warwick, RI store. On more than one
occasions, I've stood unattended for ten or twenty minutes
at the cash register with cash visible in one hand and
something I want to purchase in the other. I'd say this is
my experience for at least 40% of my visits there.

That's when i'd be sorely tempted to open the cash
register, ring-up and pay in full for my purchase, take
whatever change I have coming, take my receipt, and shove
the cash drawer closed again. I've never done it, but one
of these days ...

It's a fun fantasy, anyways.

cheers, Tom

--
-- Powered by FreeBSD Above address is just a spam midden.
I'm really at: tkeats [curlicue] vcn [point] bc [point] ca

Quoted message said:

I think store owners should take this as a warning.

Hear, hear! You're spot-on, but the impression that the
store owners give, by either their attitude or their
absence, is that they just don't care about whether they get
your business.

Quoted message said:

Even more recently, I walked into my neighborhood bike
shop on a Sunday to buy my wife the brand new bicycle I'd
been promising her forever. We're both really busy and
this was the only time we could arrange to shop for

the

Quoted message said:

bike together. Again, the money was in my pocket and there
was no way we weren't buying a bike that day. Well, it was
Sunday, and the owner, whom

I

Quoted message said:

know very well and really wanted to give the business,
decided to take the day off and leave two high school kids
running the store. My wife and I walked in and started
fumbling our way through the hundreds of bikes on display.
I even pulled a few from the racks to size her up. In all
the time we were shopping, the two kids at the counter
never even looked up

from

Quoted message said:

their conversation about "hot chicks." When I asked if one
could help,

his

Quoted message said:

response was "What are you looking for?" I told him "A
bike for my wife." "What kind?" he replied. "Probably a
hybrid." I said. "What size?" he asked. "I'm not
sure...she needs to be sized up." He then brought my

wife

Quoted message said:

to the closest female hybrid in the showroom, asked her to
get on, then asked "Does THAT feel like the right size?"
We bought my wife's bike somewhere else.

You really should bring this to the owner's attention. He
may have no idea what's going on when he's not there, and
how he might be creating a more negative impression by being
open (but not appropriately staffed) than if he were closed.

I think I'm going to start thinking of this as the
"nightmare thread." As in this is the type of nightmare I
sometimes have, and my own shop is not immune. No shop is.
But the defining difference between one shop and the next is
how they deal with it.

Talk to the owner. Please. Even if it's me (maybe ESPECIALLY
if it's me!).

--Mike-- Chain Reaction Bicycles
chainreactionbicycles.comchainreactionbicycles.comOpen ↗

"NYRides" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
"]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Claire:

While I understand and respect the opinions of others who
have replied, I also understand exactly what you mean. It
isn't just bike shops, though. If storeowners only knew
how much business they lose by hiring unknowledgeable
sales people who are afraid to approach customers, they
would probably shape up pretty fast.

I constantly walk out of stores with money burning a hole
in my pocket.

One

Quoted message said:

day recently, I had $3,000 to spend on a laptop computer
that I absolutely needed the very next day. I walked into
a well-known national mega

computer

Quoted message said:

chain store and found three young salespeople gathered
around a 23"

monitor

Quoted message said:

playing a video game. I told them I needed to buy a
laptop in a hurry and that it was my first time buying
one. Without looking up from the screen, two of them
pointed me to the aisle with the laptops and one said
"The laptops are over there." Needless to say, I walked
out after two minutes

of

Quoted message said:

trying to sell myself a laptop.

Even more recently, I walked into my neighborhood bike
shop on a Sunday to buy my wife the brand new bicycle I'd
been promising her forever. We're both really busy and
this was the only time we could arrange to shop for

the

Quoted message said:

bike together. Again, the money was in my pocket and there
was no way we weren't buying a bike that day. Well, it was
Sunday, and the owner, whom

I

Quoted message said:

know very well and really wanted to give the business,
decided to take the day off and leave two high school kids
running the store. My wife and I walked in and started
fumbling our way through the hundreds of bikes on display.
I even pulled a few from the racks to size her up. In all
the time we were shopping, the two kids at the counter
never even looked up

from

Quoted message said:

their conversation about "hot chicks." When I asked if one
could help,

his

Quoted message said:

response was "What are you looking for?" I told him "A
bike for my wife." "What kind?" he replied. "Probably a
hybrid." I said. "What size?" he asked. "I'm not
sure...she needs to be sized up." He then brought my

wife

Quoted message said:

to the closest female hybrid in the showroom, asked her to
get on, then asked "Does THAT feel like the right size?"
We bought my wife's bike somewhere else.

This happens to me all the time, and I've made a habit of
skipping out of stores that do this to me. I guess I'm
just getting old. I used to like

to

Quoted message said:

be left alone when I was shopping, but that was when I was
young and

thought

Quoted message said:

I knew more about everything than anybody. Now that I'm
older and realize I'm not so smart, I need to be "sold" by
salesperson before I'll buy anything. My final example is
the $150,000 home renovation for which my

wife

Quoted message said:

and I are trying to book contractors, designers, and
architects. Highly-recommended tradespeople of all sorts
have been escorted out our

door

Quoted message said:

for making the same mistake: They ask us "what we want"
and tell us "they'll do whatever we want." We've made it
clear to all these people

that

Quoted message said:

we need guidance, that we've never done this before and we
need input from experienced professionals. Still, they
come to the house and get

frustrated

Quoted message said:

if we don't know whether we want flush beams or soffits in
our kitchen.

The

Quoted message said:

first kitchen designer who said to us "This is what you do
and here's why" got a big gig out of us.

I think store owners should take this as a warning. The
biggest reason people still shop in retail stores, rather
than buying things cheaper online, is for the interaction
with knowledgeable salespeople who can

guide

Quoted message said:

us through the selection and buying process. Once that
benefit is eliminated, we might as well all buy blindly
via the Internet.

."Claire Petersky" <[email hidden]> wrote
in message news:VuSuc.34729$n_6.5249@attbi_s53...

Quoted message said:

Yesterday, I went to my former bike shop. I bought my
first roadie shoes there, my first bicycle computer, and
my first SPD pedals, and they did

lots

Quoted message said:

of work on my bike for a while. But the one decent guy
who worked there left, and I didn't see much reason to
remain as their customer.

My reasons for not being their customer any more was
underscored when I

went

Quoted message said:

in to the bike shop. The only reason why I was in there
was I had

business

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

at another store in the strip mall, and I thought I'd
stop by. So I

did --

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

why not?

Three employees were sitting around (literally -- in
folding chairs, in

the

Quoted message said:

center of the store) talking to each other. I came in,
and headed to

their

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

more expensive road bikes. I fingered the merchandise,
and talked to my daughter about what I'd be interested
in, in a new bike. I went over to

the

Quoted message said:

clothing, and rummaged through the 30% off on all 2003
bike clothes

rack.

Quoted message said:

I

Quoted message said:

peered into the case at the counter.

Never once did anyone greet me, ask what I might be
interested in, try

to

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

sell me a bike, clothes, or accessories. For that
matter, considering

that

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

probably two of them were wrenches, were any of them
working on bikes.

--
Warm Regards,

Claire Petersky Please replace earthlink for mouse-
potato and .net for .com Home of the meditative cyclist:
home.earthlink.netWelcome.htmOpen ↗ See the
books I've set free at:

bookcrossing.comCpeterskyOpen ↗

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Claire: You were a victim of one of the most maddening
things to a bike shop owner... clumping. That's what I call
it when the employees get together and talk amongst
themselves, instead of taking care of customers.

Customers... yuck... what if they ask me about something I
don't know much about?

Customers... they don't seem to care so much about that
gnarly 24 hour mountain bike race I just completed, and why
should they, the closest they'll ever come to a real trail
will be the picture in the brochure.

Customers... egad, it's only an hour until closing, what if
they want to buy a $2,000 bike with $500 worth of
accessories, causing me to miss my 8pm show on TV?

Why would you ever want to help a customer? So much more
interesting to talk to the other employees!

The real irony is that this goes on most often when a store
is relatively quiet. When things are busy, people do what
they're supposed to do. But if things are quiet, or a store
is overstaffed, customers are often neglected.

We (shop owners & employees) have to remember why we're
here. It's to take care of the people who come in the door
and help us pay our bills. We need to remember (especially
for those of us whose stores aren't located in busy shopping
centers) that people don't accidentally stumble into our
shops. And we need to remember that, while *we* might have a
clue about where to find things in our store, a newcomer
doesn't. And we also must remember that, even though many
people seem to think we're supposed to be able to read their
minds, we can't... which means we have to actually ask
people what brought them by today.

--Mike-- Chain Reaction Bicycles
chainreactionbicycles.comchainreactionbicycles.comOpen ↗

"Claire Petersky" <[email hidden]> wrote in
message news:ev0vc.984$sI.587@attbi_s52...

Quoted message said:

"Lars Lehtonen" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
"]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

According to Claire Petersky <cpetersky@mouse-
potato.com>:

Quoted message said:

Never once did anyone greet me, ask what I might be
interested in, try to sell me a bike, clothes, or
accessories. For that matter, considering that probably
two of them were wrenches, were any of them working on
bikes.

You'd rather they were breathing down your neck sparring
with one another for the measly 1% commission that some
shops pay? That sounds miserable.

Having worked retail, what I would have done was: hauled
my bulk out of my folding chair, turned to the shopper,
and said something like: "looking at those Treks? Need any
help?" If the person replied something like, "no,

just

Quoted message said:

browsing", then I'd say, "OK, just let me know if you need
anything", and then settled myself back down on my folding
chair. This isn't breathing

down

Quoted message said:

necks, this is acknowledging the presence of another
human being.

I also suspect, but have no evidence for, that strikes
against me were my age, and me looking at road bikes.
Being female was also probably against me, too, as I was
therefore not to be taken seriously -- although probably

a

Quoted message said:

respect.

Quoted message said:

I'm sure if you asked for help they would have been
happy to talk bikes with you.

Nah, they were too busy talking amongst themselves. I
didn't want to interrupt them.

--
Warm Regards,

Claire Petersky Please replace earthlink for mouse-potato
and .net for .com Home of the meditative cyclist:
home.earthlink.netWelcome.htmOpen ↗ See the
books I've set free at:
bookcrossing.comCpeterskyOpen ↗

Claire:

I'm expanding your fame & notoriety; I've taken your
original post, as well as a few clips from some of the follow-
ups, and posted them to the NBDA (National Bicycle Dealer
Association) email list. Hopefully, it will have a
positive effect on the retail environment with at least a
few dealers.

--Mike-- Chain Reaction Bicycles
chainreactionbicycles.comchainreactionbicycles.comOpen ↗

Tue, 1 Jun 2004 14:53:27 -0700, <[email hidden]>,

(Tom Keats) said:

Rick Onanian said:

(Tom Keats) said:

Flashing a big wad of cash sometimes works, too.

Doesn't work in one Warwick, RI store. On more than
one occasions, I've stood unattended for ten or twenty
minutes at the cash register with cash visible in one
hand and something I want to purchase in the other.
I'd say this is my experience for at least 40% of my
visits there.

That's when i'd be sorely tempted to open the cash
register, ring-up and pay in full for my purchase, take
whatever change I have coming, take my receipt, and shove
the cash drawer closed again. I've never done it, but one
of these days ...

It's a fun fantasy, anyways.

I've had occasion to ask, in a loud voice, "Does
anybody want to play store today?" or just call out,
"Who works here?"
--
zk