former bike shop

Claire Petersky said:

Yesterday, I went to my former bike shop. I bought my first roadie shoes
there, my first bicycle computer, and my first SPD pedals, and they did lots
of work on my bike for a while. But the one decent guy who worked there
left, and I didn't see much reason to remain as their customer.

My reasons for not being their customer any more was underscored when I went
in to the bike shop. The only reason why I was in there was I had business
at another store in the strip mall, and I thought I'd stop by. So I did --
why not?

Three employees were sitting around (literally -- in folding chairs, in the
center of the store) talking to each other. I came in, and headed to their
more expensive road bikes. I fingered the merchandise, and talked to my
daughter about what I'd be interested in, in a new bike. I went over to the
clothing, and rummaged through the 30% off on all 2003 bike clothes rack. I
peered into the case at the counter.

Never once did anyone greet me, ask what I might be interested in, try to
sell me a bike, clothes, or accessories. For that matter, considering that
probably two of them were wrenches, were any of them working on bikes.

Your accoutn tells a tale...
Bernie

Claire Petersky said:

Never once did anyone greet me, ask what I might be interested in, try to
sell me a bike, clothes, or accessories. For that matter, considering that
probably two of them were wrenches, were any of them working on bikes.

They, umm, didn't want to...bother you. Yeah, that's the ticket!
--
Rick Onanian

Tue, 01 Jun 2004 03:12:54 GMT, <VuSuc.34729$n_6.5249@attbi_s53>,

Claire Petersky said:

But the one decent guy who worked there
left, and I didn't see much reason to remain as their customer.

Find out where he's working now. Hairdressers, mechanics, plumbers,
chefs etc. often keep _their_ clients after changing employers.
--
zk

In VuSuc.34729$n_6.5249@attbi_s53 said:

Never once did anyone greet me, ask what I might be interested in, try to
sell me a bike, clothes, or accessories.

Strangely enough, this is what I prefer. I don't actually want someone to
try to sell me anything that I haven't come in to buy. I usually just want
to conduct my business in the most efficient way possible, and to be left
alone if I haven't asked for anything.

For me, the test comes when I actually need help: if I ask for help and it
seems like I am bothering the sales staff or if they are going to treat me
like a fred or whatnot, then that's my signal to not come back.

Quoted message said:

For that matter, considering that probably two of them were wrenches, were
any of them working on bikes.

I guess the place isn't a sweatshop, but if you've had bad experiences with
long service times before then I can see your point.

--
Herbie J.
Famous Curator

According to Claire Petersky <[email hidden]>:

Quoted message said:

Never once did anyone greet me, ask what I might be interested in, try
to sell me a bike, clothes, or accessories. For that matter,
considering that probably two of them were wrenches, were any of them
working on bikes.

You'd rather they were breathing down your neck sparring with one
another for the measly 1% commission that some shops pay? That sounds
miserable.

I'm sure if you asked for help they would have been happy to talk bikes
with you.

----
Lars Lehtonen

On 1 Jun 2004 08:12:15 GMT, Lars Lehtonen <[email hidden]>

Quoted message said:

You'd rather they were breathing down your neck sparring with one
another for the measly 1% commission that some shops pay? That sounds
miserable.

I'm sure if you asked for help they would have been happy to talk bikes
with you.

There is certainly room in between, as in one coming over and asking
if they needed any help in locating what they are looking for.
Whatever the commission may be is irrelevant - if they are unhappy
with what they are paid, they can try a place that expects them to
work.

Curtis L. Russell
Odenton, MD (USA)
Just someone on two wheels...

On 1 Jun 2004 08:12:15 GMT, Lars Lehtonen <[email hidden]>

Quoted message said:

You'd rather they were breathing down your neck sparring with one
another for the measly 1% commission that some shops pay? That sounds
miserable.

A simple "Is there anything I can help you with?" is a good balance.
--
Rick Onanian

"Lars Lehtonen" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

According to Claire Petersky <[email hidden]>:

Quoted message said:

Never once did anyone greet me, ask what I might be interested in, try
to sell me a bike, clothes, or accessories. For that matter,
considering that probably two of them were wrenches, were any of them
working on bikes.

You'd rather they were breathing down your neck sparring with one
another for the measly 1% commission that some shops pay? That sounds
miserable.

Having worked retail, what I would have done was: hauled my bulk out of my
folding chair, turned to the shopper, and said something like: "looking at
those Treks? Need any help?" If the person replied something like, "no, just
browsing", then I'd say, "OK, just let me know if you need anything", and
then settled myself back down on my folding chair. This isn't breathing down
necks, this is acknowledging the presence of another human being.

I also suspect, but have no evidence for, that strikes against me were my
age, and me looking at road bikes. Being female was also probably against
me, too, as I was therefore not to be taken seriously -- although probably a
pretty or sexy female half my age might have gotten some attention, if not
respect.

Quoted message said:

I'm sure if you asked for help they would have been happy to talk bikes
with you.

Nah, they were too busy talking amongst themselves. I didn't want to
interrupt them.

--
Warm Regards,

Claire Petersky
Please replace earthlink for mouse-potato and .net for .com
Home of the meditative cyclist:
http://home.earthlink.net/~cpetersky/Welcome.htm
See the books I've set free at: http://bookcrossing.com/referral/Cpetersky

Claire:

While I understand and respect the opinions of others who have replied, I
also understand exactly what you mean. It isn't just bike shops, though.
If storeowners only knew how much business they lose by hiring
unknowledgeable sales people who are afraid to approach customers, they
would probably shape up pretty fast.

I constantly walk out of stores with money burning a hole in my pocket. One
day recently, I had $3,000 to spend on a laptop computer that I absolutely
needed the very next day. I walked into a well-known national mega computer
chain store and found three young salespeople gathered around a 23" monitor
playing a video game. I told them I needed to buy a laptop in a hurry and
that it was my first time buying one. Without looking up from the screen,
two of them pointed me to the aisle with the laptops and one said "The
laptops are over there." Needless to say, I walked out after two minutes of
trying to sell myself a laptop.

Even more recently, I walked into my neighborhood bike shop on a Sunday to
buy my wife the brand new bicycle I'd been promising her forever. We're
both really busy and this was the only time we could arrange to shop for the
bike together. Again, the money was in my pocket and there was no way we
weren't buying a bike that day. Well, it was Sunday, and the owner, whom I
know very well and really wanted to give the business, decided to take the
day off and leave two high school kids running the store. My wife and I
walked in and started fumbling our way through the hundreds of bikes on
display. I even pulled a few from the racks to size her up. In all the
time we were shopping, the two kids at the counter never even looked up from
their conversation about "hot chicks." When I asked if one could help, his
response was "What are you looking for?" I told him "A bike for my wife."
"What kind?" he replied. "Probably a hybrid." I said. "What size?" he
asked. "I'm not sure...she needs to be sized up." He then brought my wife
to the closest female hybrid in the showroom, asked her to get on, then
asked "Does THAT feel like the right size?" We bought my wife's bike
somewhere else.

This happens to me all the time, and I've made a habit of skipping out of
stores that do this to me. I guess I'm just getting old. I used to like to
be left alone when I was shopping, but that was when I was young and thought
I knew more about everything than anybody. Now that I'm older and realize
I'm not so smart, I need to be "sold" by salesperson before I'll buy
anything. My final example is the $150,000 home renovation for which my wife
and I are trying to book contractors, designers, and architects.
Highly-recommended tradespeople of all sorts have been escorted out our door
for making the same mistake: They ask us "what we want" and tell us
"they'll do whatever we want." We've made it clear to all these people that
we need guidance, that we've never done this before and we need input from
experienced professionals. Still, they come to the house and get frustrated
if we don't know whether we want flush beams or soffits in our kitchen. The
first kitchen designer who said to us "This is what you do and here's why"
got a big gig out of us.

I think store owners should take this as a warning. The biggest reason
people still shop in retail stores, rather than buying things cheaper
online, is for the interaction with knowledgeable salespeople who can guide
us through the selection and buying process. Once that benefit is
eliminated, we might as well all buy blindly via the Internet.

."Claire Petersky" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:VuSuc.34729$n_6.5249@attbi_s53...

Quoted message said:

Yesterday, I went to my former bike shop. I bought my first roadie shoes
there, my first bicycle computer, and my first SPD pedals, and they did

lots

Quoted message said:

of work on my bike for a while. But the one decent guy who worked there
left, and I didn't see much reason to remain as their customer.

My reasons for not being their customer any more was underscored when I

went

Quoted message said:

in to the bike shop. The only reason why I was in there was I had business
at another store in the strip mall, and I thought I'd stop by. So I did --
why not?

Three employees were sitting around (literally -- in folding chairs, in

the

Quoted message said:

center of the store) talking to each other. I came in, and headed to their
more expensive road bikes. I fingered the merchandise, and talked to my
daughter about what I'd be interested in, in a new bike. I went over to

the

Quoted message said:

clothing, and rummaged through the 30% off on all 2003 bike clothes rack.

I

Quoted message said:

peered into the case at the counter.

Never once did anyone greet me, ask what I might be interested in, try to
sell me a bike, clothes, or accessories. For that matter, considering that
probably two of them were wrenches, were any of them working on bikes.

--
Warm Regards,

Claire Petersky
Please replace earthlink for mouse-potato and .net for .com
Home of the meditative cyclist:
http://home.earthlink.net/~cpetersky/Welcome.htm
See the books I've set free at: http://bookcrossing.com/referral/Cpetersky

"Rick Onanian" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...
: On 1 Jun 2004 08:12:15 GMT, Lars Lehtonen
<[email hidden]>
: wrote:
: >You'd rather they were breathing down your neck sparring
with one
: >another for the measly 1% commission that some shops pay?
That sounds
: >miserable.
:
: A simple "Is there anything I can help you with?" is a
good balance.
: --
: Rick Onanian

Better (IMHO)--from the retailer's perspective--is any
question NOT readily answered "yes" or "no."

"What kind of cycling are you into?"

"Ah, Cannondales. Good choice. What type of bike do you
have now?"

"Looking for a bike for yourself or for somebody else?"

....etc., etc. Get the customer talking. They'll tell you
what they want . . . even if it's just to be left alone ;-)

Sorry, Claire. Welcome to retail!

Claire Petersky said:

Having worked retail, what I would have done was: hauled my bulk out
of my folding chair, turned to the shopper, and said something like:
"looking at those Treks? Need any help?" If the person replied
something like, "no, just browsing", then I'd say, "OK, just let me
know if you need anything", and then settled myself back down on my
folding chair. This isn't breathing down necks, this is acknowledging
the presence of another human being.

I also suspect, but have no evidence for, that strikes against me
were my age, and me looking at road bikes. Being female was also
probably against me, too, as I was therefore not to be taken
seriously -- although probably a pretty or sexy female half my age
might have gotten some attention, if not respect.

Quoted message said:

I'm sure if you asked for help they would have been happy to talk
bikes with you.

Nah, they were too busy talking amongst themselves. I didn't want to
interrupt them.

As a business owner, I've always felt empathy or comraderie with other business
owners. In the past I might have let the owner/manager know about my
experience. But it seems just as many of them have bad attitudes too. So these
days, I just let people dig their own graves, and hope someone better steps in
to fill the void. Unfortunately, many small businesses are immune to normal
market forces -- daddy owns the building, etc. And if a location is good
enough, repeat business may not be an issue -- note how many really crappy
restaurants seem to hang on for decades.

Matt O.

In article <[email hidden]>,

Zoot Katz said:

Tue, 01 Jun 2004 03:12:54 GMT, <VuSuc.34729$n_6.5249@attbi_s53>,

Claire Petersky said:

But the one decent guy who worked there
left, and I didn't see much reason to remain as their customer.

Find out where he's working now. Hairdressers, mechanics, plumbers,
chefs etc. often keep _their_ clients after changing employers.

Chinese restaurants are like that too, but it's a task to
keep track of which cooks are working where.

My usual tactic to get service is to look like a shoplifter.
Although sometimes I've come close to having to push the
button on the till that opens the cash drawer and makes the
bell ring, to get any attention.

Flashing a big wad of cash sometimes works, too.

cheers,
Tom

--
-- Powered by FreeBSD
Above address is just a spam midden.
I'm really at: tkeats [curlicue] vcn [point] bc [point] ca

On Tue, 1 Jun 2004 13:43:14 -0700, [email hidden] (Tom Keats)

Quoted message said:

Flashing a big wad of cash sometimes works, too.

Doesn't work in one Warwick, RI store. On more than one occasions,
I've stood unattended for ten or twenty minutes at the cash register
with cash visible in one hand and something I want to purchase in
the other. I'd say this is my experience for at least 40% of my
visits there.
--
Rick Onanian

In article <[email hidden]>,

Rick Onanian said:

On Tue, 1 Jun 2004 13:43:14 -0700, [email hidden] (Tom Keats)

Quoted message said:

Flashing a big wad of cash sometimes works, too.

Doesn't work in one Warwick, RI store. On more than one occasions,
I've stood unattended for ten or twenty minutes at the cash register
with cash visible in one hand and something I want to purchase in
the other. I'd say this is my experience for at least 40% of my
visits there.

That's when i'd be sorely tempted to open the cash register,
ring-up and pay in full for my purchase, take whatever change
I have coming, take my receipt, and shove the cash drawer
closed again. I've never done it, but one of these days ...

It's a fun fantasy, anyways.

cheers,
Tom

--
-- Powered by FreeBSD
Above address is just a spam midden.
I'm really at: tkeats [curlicue] vcn [point] bc [point] ca

Quoted message said:

I think store owners should take this as a warning.

Hear, hear! You're spot-on, but the impression that the store owners
give, by either their attitude or their absence, is that they just don't
care about whether they get your business.

Claire: You were a victim of one of the most maddening things to a bike
shop owner... clumping. That's what I call it when the employees get
together and talk amongst themselves, instead of taking care of customers.

Customers... yuck... what if they ask me about something I don't know much
about?

Customers... they don't seem to care so much about that gnarly 24 hour
mountain bike race I just completed, and why should they, the closest
they'll ever come to a real trail will be the picture in the brochure.

Customers... egad, it's only an hour until closing, what if they want to buy
a $2,000 bike with $500 worth of accessories, causing me to miss my 8pm show
on TV?

Why would you ever want to help a customer? So much more interesting to
talk to the other employees!

The real irony is that this goes on most often when a store is relatively
quiet. When things are busy, people do what they're supposed to do. But if
things are quiet, or a store is overstaffed, customers are often neglected.

We (shop owners & employees) have to remember why we're here. It's to take
care of the people who come in the door and help us pay our bills. We need
to remember (especially for those of us whose stores aren't located in busy
shopping centers) that people don't accidentally stumble into our shops.
And we need to remember that, while *we* might have a clue about where to
find things in our store, a newcomer doesn't. And we also must remember
that, even though many people seem to think we're supposed to be able to
read their minds, we can't... which means we have to actually ask people
what brought them by today.

--Mike-- Chain Reaction Bicycles
http://www.ChainReactionBicycles.com

"Claire Petersky" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:ev0vc.984$sI.587@attbi_s52...

Quoted message said:

"Lars Lehtonen" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

According to Claire Petersky <[email hidden]>:

Quoted message said:

Never once did anyone greet me, ask what I might be interested in, try
to sell me a bike, clothes, or accessories. For that matter,
considering that probably two of them were wrenches, were any of them
working on bikes.

You'd rather they were breathing down your neck sparring with one
another for the measly 1% commission that some shops pay? That sounds
miserable.

Having worked retail, what I would have done was: hauled my bulk out of my
folding chair, turned to the shopper, and said something like: "looking at
those Treks? Need any help?" If the person replied something like, "no,

just

Quoted message said:

browsing", then I'd say, "OK, just let me know if you need anything", and
then settled myself back down on my folding chair. This isn't breathing

down

Quoted message said:

necks, this is acknowledging the presence of another human being.

I also suspect, but have no evidence for, that strikes against me were my
age, and me looking at road bikes. Being female was also probably against
me, too, as I was therefore not to be taken seriously -- although probably

a

Quoted message said:

pretty or sexy female half my age might have gotten some attention, if not
respect.

Quoted message said:

I'm sure if you asked for help they would have been happy to talk bikes
with you.

Nah, they were too busy talking amongst themselves. I didn't want to
interrupt them.

--
Warm Regards,

Claire Petersky
Please replace earthlink for mouse-potato and .net for .com
Home of the meditative cyclist:
http://home.earthlink.net/~cpetersky/Welcome.htm
See the books I've set free at: http://bookcrossing.com/referral/Cpetersky

Quoted message said:

Even more recently, I walked into my neighborhood bike shop on a Sunday to
buy my wife the brand new bicycle I'd been promising her forever. We're
both really busy and this was the only time we could arrange to shop for

the

Quoted message said:

bike together. Again, the money was in my pocket and there was no way we
weren't buying a bike that day. Well, it was Sunday, and the owner, whom

I

Quoted message said:

know very well and really wanted to give the business, decided to take the
day off and leave two high school kids running the store. My wife and I
walked in and started fumbling our way through the hundreds of bikes on
display. I even pulled a few from the racks to size her up. In all the
time we were shopping, the two kids at the counter never even looked up

from

Quoted message said:

their conversation about "hot chicks." When I asked if one could help,

his

Quoted message said:

response was "What are you looking for?" I told him "A bike for my wife."
"What kind?" he replied. "Probably a hybrid." I said. "What size?" he
asked. "I'm not sure...she needs to be sized up." He then brought my

wife

Quoted message said:

to the closest female hybrid in the showroom, asked her to get on, then
asked "Does THAT feel like the right size?" We bought my wife's bike
somewhere else.

You really should bring this to the owner's attention. He may have no idea
what's going on when he's not there, and how he might be creating a more
negative impression by being open (but not appropriately staffed) than if he
were closed.

I think I'm going to start thinking of this as the "nightmare thread." As
in this is the type of nightmare I sometimes have, and my own shop is not
immune. No shop is. But the defining difference between one shop and the
next is how they deal with it.

Talk to the owner. Please. Even if it's me (maybe ESPECIALLY if it's me!).

--Mike-- Chain Reaction Bicycles
http://www.ChainReactionBicycles.com

"NYRides" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Claire:

While I understand and respect the opinions of others who have replied, I
also understand exactly what you mean. It isn't just bike shops, though.
If storeowners only knew how much business they lose by hiring
unknowledgeable sales people who are afraid to approach customers, they
would probably shape up pretty fast.

I constantly walk out of stores with money burning a hole in my pocket.

One

Quoted message said:

day recently, I had $3,000 to spend on a laptop computer that I absolutely
needed the very next day. I walked into a well-known national mega

computer

Quoted message said:

chain store and found three young salespeople gathered around a 23"

monitor

Quoted message said:

playing a video game. I told them I needed to buy a laptop in a hurry and
that it was my first time buying one. Without looking up from the screen,
two of them pointed me to the aisle with the laptops and one said "The
laptops are over there." Needless to say, I walked out after two minutes

of

Quoted message said:

trying to sell myself a laptop.

Even more recently, I walked into my neighborhood bike shop on a Sunday to
buy my wife the brand new bicycle I'd been promising her forever. We're
both really busy and this was the only time we could arrange to shop for

the

Quoted message said:

bike together. Again, the money was in my pocket and there was no way we
weren't buying a bike that day. Well, it was Sunday, and the owner, whom

I

Quoted message said:

know very well and really wanted to give the business, decided to take the
day off and leave two high school kids running the store. My wife and I
walked in and started fumbling our way through the hundreds of bikes on
display. I even pulled a few from the racks to size her up. In all the
time we were shopping, the two kids at the counter never even looked up

from

Quoted message said:

their conversation about "hot chicks." When I asked if one could help,

his

Quoted message said:

response was "What are you looking for?" I told him "A bike for my wife."
"What kind?" he replied. "Probably a hybrid." I said. "What size?" he
asked. "I'm not sure...she needs to be sized up." He then brought my

wife

Quoted message said:

to the closest female hybrid in the showroom, asked her to get on, then
asked "Does THAT feel like the right size?" We bought my wife's bike
somewhere else.

This happens to me all the time, and I've made a habit of skipping out of
stores that do this to me. I guess I'm just getting old. I used to like

to

Quoted message said:

be left alone when I was shopping, but that was when I was young and

thought

Quoted message said:

I knew more about everything than anybody. Now that I'm older and realize
I'm not so smart, I need to be "sold" by salesperson before I'll buy
anything. My final example is the $150,000 home renovation for which my

wife

Quoted message said:

and I are trying to book contractors, designers, and architects.
Highly-recommended tradespeople of all sorts have been escorted out our

door

Quoted message said:

for making the same mistake: They ask us "what we want" and tell us
"they'll do whatever we want." We've made it clear to all these people

that

Quoted message said:

we need guidance, that we've never done this before and we need input from
experienced professionals. Still, they come to the house and get

frustrated

Quoted message said:

if we don't know whether we want flush beams or soffits in our kitchen.

The

Quoted message said:

first kitchen designer who said to us "This is what you do and here's why"
got a big gig out of us.

I think store owners should take this as a warning. The biggest reason
people still shop in retail stores, rather than buying things cheaper
online, is for the interaction with knowledgeable salespeople who can

guide

Quoted message said:

us through the selection and buying process. Once that benefit is
eliminated, we might as well all buy blindly via the Internet.

."Claire Petersky" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:VuSuc.34729$n_6.5249@attbi_s53...

Quoted message said:

Yesterday, I went to my former bike shop. I bought my first roadie shoes
there, my first bicycle computer, and my first SPD pedals, and they did

lots

Quoted message said:

of work on my bike for a while. But the one decent guy who worked there
left, and I didn't see much reason to remain as their customer.

My reasons for not being their customer any more was underscored when I

went

Quoted message said:

in to the bike shop. The only reason why I was in there was I had

business

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

at another store in the strip mall, and I thought I'd stop by. So I

did --

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

why not?

Three employees were sitting around (literally -- in folding chairs, in

the

Quoted message said:

center of the store) talking to each other. I came in, and headed to

their

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

more expensive road bikes. I fingered the merchandise, and talked to my
daughter about what I'd be interested in, in a new bike. I went over to

the

Quoted message said:

clothing, and rummaged through the 30% off on all 2003 bike clothes

rack.

Quoted message said:

I

Quoted message said:

peered into the case at the counter.

Never once did anyone greet me, ask what I might be interested in, try

to

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

sell me a bike, clothes, or accessories. For that matter, considering

that

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

probably two of them were wrenches, were any of them working on bikes.

--
Warm Regards,

Claire Petersky
Please replace earthlink for mouse-potato and .net for .com
Home of the meditative cyclist:
http://home.earthlink.net/~cpetersky/Welcome.htm
See the books I've set free at:

http://bookcrossing.com/referral/Cpetersky

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Claire:

I'm expanding your fame & notoriety; I've taken your original post, as well
as a few clips from some of the follow-ups, and posted them to the NBDA
(National Bicycle Dealer Association) email list. Hopefully, it will have a
positive effect on the retail environment with at least a few dealers.

--Mike-- Chain Reaction Bicycles
http://www.ChainReactionBicycles.com

Tue, 1 Jun 2004 14:53:27 -0700, <[email hidden]>,

(Tom Keats) said:

Rick Onanian said:

(Tom Keats) said:

Flashing a big wad of cash sometimes works, too.

Doesn't work in one Warwick, RI store. On more than one occasions,
I've stood unattended for ten or twenty minutes at the cash register
with cash visible in one hand and something I want to purchase in
the other. I'd say this is my experience for at least 40% of my
visits there.

That's when i'd be sorely tempted to open the cash register,
ring-up and pay in full for my purchase, take whatever change
I have coming, take my receipt, and shove the cash drawer
closed again. I've never done it, but one of these days ...

It's a fun fantasy, anyways.

I've had occasion to ask, in a loud voice, "Does anybody want to play
store today?" or just call out, "Who works here?"
--
zk