For Caroline ...

"Sandy" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

German Olympic doctor admits doping involvement
By Susan Westemeyer

A German Olympic team doctor has admitted providing testosterone to riders
in the 1980s, and the German national U23 coach has been accused of
providing doping products to U23 riders in that same time period.

Georg Huber admitted that he gave cyclists testosterone between 1980 and
1990. He was directly suspended by the BRD (the German cycling federation)
and the University of Freiburg, where he worked.

http://www.cyclingnews.com/news.php?id=news/2007/may07/may28news

(now that they put scandal on the top of the page, not racing news, it's
your sure source for dirt.)

--
Bonne route !

Sandy
Verneuil-sur-Seine FR

Thanks, Sandy. I guess it's human nature to try to figure out a way to get
an edge without doing 100% of the work, else why would there be a "Walk of
Shame" in ancient Olympia, where it all began? There was something of a
wall of silence (sort of) around Alexi Grewal's hepatitis back in the 80's,
and he went to Europe where some "doctor" treated him with (he said) a
special cheese diet with a lot of blue veined cheeses. Then caffiene was on
the hit list for a while. I can't remember for sure who the elite U.S.
woman cyclist was (Rebecca Twigg???) who lost her title for having used
cough syrup the night before a race.

I just think it would be so much easier to simply say, "Here's the 'normal
limits' blood profile you have to meet, or you don't win anything." But of
course, that's not financially profitable for the testing labs. I also have
concerns that there is no information available on the long term effect of
these chemicals in the body. It's very easy to say "that's a long way off,
I'm young." It's amazing how quickly you get there.

The age we live in. But I hate to see pro-cycling in a melt-down state.
Had three Cat 1s here this weekend who gave up on turning pro after a year
or two racing in Europe because they refused to dope. Maybe amateur is
where it's at for a while?

Caroline

Caroline said:

I guess it's human nature to try to figure out a way to get
an edge without doing 100% of the work [...] Had three
Cat 1s here this weekend who gave up on turning pro after
a year or two racing in Europe because they refused to dope.

Had they doped, they probably still wouldn't have made it as pros. And
doping doesn't cut down on the work. As Lemond has said, it doesn't
get easier, you just go faster.

"Caroline" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:nzG6i.3580$D31.2582@trnddc01...

Quoted message said:

Thanks, Sandy. I guess it's human nature to try to figure out a way to
get an edge without doing 100% of the work, else why would there be a
"Walk of Shame" in ancient Olympia, where it all began? There was
something of a wall of silence (sort of) around Alexi Grewal's hepatitis
back in the 80's, and he went to Europe where some "doctor" treated him
with (he said) a special cheese diet with a lot of blue veined cheeses.
Then caffiene was on the hit list for a while. I can't remember for sure
who the elite U.S. woman cyclist was (Rebecca Twigg???) who lost her title
for having used cough syrup the night before a race.

I think Grewal's blue cheese comments were intentional misinformation. I'm
sure it wasn't Twigg who lost a title, but do you recall which event it was
in?

Were you at the superdrome yesterday?

"Caroline" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:LuJ6i.2893$9G3.1482@trnddc07...

Quoted message said:

I only talked to him briefly at a race in Colorado about the cheese diet
because I'd also had hepatitis, though a few years before. He didn't deny
hepatitis in our conversation, and he did name the cheeses, most of which
were unavailable in the U.S. On the other hand, I don't recall him
saying, "Yes! I had hepatitis!" There *was* obfuscation about exactly
what was wrong, but in that brief conversation there was no denial of
liver involvement. As I recall. (How long ago WAS that!)

Somehow, I'm thinking '87, although it could have been at the '86 Wheat
Thins race in the Garden of the Gods near Colorado Springs.

On Mon, 28 May 2007 16:28:07 -0500, "Carl Sundquist" <[email hidden]>

Quoted message said:

"Caroline" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:nzG6i.3580$D31.2582@trnddc01...

Quoted message said:

Thanks, Sandy. I guess it's human nature to try to figure out a way to
get an edge without doing 100% of the work, else why would there be a
"Walk of Shame" in ancient Olympia, where it all began? There was
something of a wall of silence (sort of) around Alexi Grewal's hepatitis
back in the 80's, and he went to Europe where some "doctor" treated him
with (he said) a special cheese diet with a lot of blue veined cheeses.
Then caffiene was on the hit list for a while. I can't remember for sure
who the elite U.S. woman cyclist was (Rebecca Twigg???) who lost her title
for having used cough syrup the night before a race.

I think Grewal's blue cheese comments were intentional misinformation. I'm
sure it wasn't Twigg who lost a title, but do you recall which event it was
in?

Not Cindy Olavarri, who was involved in more serious doping than cough
syrup -- steroids.

And I also remember Grewal saying he had teflon or heavy metal (I
can't remember which) poisoning, whatever that is.
--
JT
****************************
Remove "remove" to reply
Visit http://www.jt10000.com
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John Forrest Tomlinson" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

On Mon, 28 May 2007 16:28:07 -0500, "Carl Sundquist" <[email hidden]>

Quoted message said:

"Caroline" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:nzG6i.3580$D31.2582@trnddc01...

Quoted message said:

Thanks, Sandy. I guess it's human nature to try to figure out a way to
get an edge without doing 100% of the work, else why would there be a
"Walk of Shame" in ancient Olympia, where it all began? There was
something of a wall of silence (sort of) around Alexi Grewal's hepatitis
back in the 80's, and he went to Europe where some "doctor" treated him
with (he said) a special cheese diet with a lot of blue veined cheeses.
Then caffiene was on the hit list for a while. I can't remember for
sure
who the elite U.S. woman cyclist was (Rebecca Twigg???) who lost her
title
for having used cough syrup the night before a race.

I think Grewal's blue cheese comments were intentional misinformation. I'm
sure it wasn't Twigg who lost a title, but do you recall which event it
was
in?

Not Cindy Olavarri, who was involved in more serious doping than cough
syrup -- steroids.

And I also remember Grewal saying he had teflon or heavy metal (I
can't remember which) poisoning, whatever that is.

Cindy said that she was taking so many different drugs that it took her 1-2
hours to inject herself before a race! She talked about steroids that looked
and injected like white vasoline. Last time I saw her she was walking like
she was 100 years old.

"Carl Sundquist" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

I think Grewal's blue cheese comments were intentional misinformation. I'm
sure it wasn't Twigg who lost a title, but do you recall which event it
was in?

I only talked to him briefly at a race in Colorado about the cheese diet
because I'd also had hepatitis, though a few years before. He didn't deny
hepatitis in our conversation, and he did name the cheeses, most of which
were unavailable in the U.S. On the other hand, I don't recall him saying,
"Yes! I had hepatitis!" There *was* obfuscation about exactly what was
wrong, but in that brief conversation there was no denial of liver
involvement. As I recall. (How long ago WAS that!)

Quoted message said:

Were you at the superdrome yesterday?

Nope. Believe it or not, I'm allergic to rain. <sigh> Stayed home and got
blow by blow reports.

Caroline

"Tom Kunich" <cyclintom@yahoo. com> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

John Forrest Tomlinson" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

On Mon, 28 May 2007 16:28:07 -0500, "Carl Sundquist" <[email hidden]>

Quoted message said:

"Caroline" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:nzG6i.3580$D31.2582@trnddc01...
>
> Thanks, Sandy. I guess it's human nature to try to figure out a way to
> get an edge without doing 100% of the work, else why would there be a
> "Walk of Shame" in ancient Olympia, where it all began? There was
> something of a wall of silence (sort of) around Alexi Grewal's
> hepatitis
> back in the 80's, and he went to Europe where some "doctor" treated him
> with (he said) a special cheese diet with a lot of blue veined cheeses.
> Then caffiene was on the hit list for a while. I can't remember for
> sure
> who the elite U.S. woman cyclist was (Rebecca Twigg???) who lost her
> title
> for having used cough syrup the night before a race.

I think Grewal's blue cheese comments were intentional misinformation.
I'm
sure it wasn't Twigg who lost a title, but do you recall which event it
was
in?

Not Cindy Olavarri, who was involved in more serious doping than cough
syrup -- steroids.

And I also remember Grewal saying he had teflon or heavy metal (I
can't remember which) poisoning, whatever that is.

Cindy said that she was taking so many different drugs that it took her
1-2 hours to inject herself before a race! She talked about steroids that
looked and injected like white vasoline. Last time I saw her she was
walking like she was 100 years old.

I didn't know Cindy Olivarri. At least the name doesn't ring any bells. I
probably shouldn't have even used a name, though I do somehow think it was
Rebecca Twigg. But hey, it was a long time ago. I do absolutely recall
whoever it was telling me she had this dry, hacking cough that was keeping
her awake the night before the race, so she dashed to a pharmacy, bought the
cough medicine the pharmacist recommended, then lost her win/title when the
blood testing was done.

Back in those earlier days of drug testing, I knew riders who were
disqualified because they drank ginseng tea, which showed a false positive
for somthing or other. You had to live with a phone in your hand (before
the days of cell phones) checking on what you could take and what you
couldn't. Exercise induced asthma was a problem because nearly all inhalers
were banned because of epinephrine.

Caroline

John Forrest Tomlinson said:

On Mon, 28 May 2007 16:28:07 -0500, "Carl Sundquist" <[email hidden]>

Quoted message said:

"Caroline" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:nzG6i.3580$D31.2582@trnddc01...

Quoted message said:

Thanks, Sandy. I guess it's human nature to try to figure out a way to
get an edge without doing 100% of the work, else why would there be a
"Walk of Shame" in ancient Olympia, where it all began? There was
something of a wall of silence (sort of) around Alexi Grewal's hepatitis
back in the 80's, and he went to Europe where some "doctor" treated him
with (he said) a special cheese diet with a lot of blue veined cheeses.
Then caffiene was on the hit list for a while. I can't remember for sure
who the elite U.S. woman cyclist was (Rebecca Twigg???) who lost her title
for having used cough syrup the night before a race.

I think Grewal's blue cheese comments were intentional misinformation. I'm
sure it wasn't Twigg who lost a title, but do you recall which event it was
in?

Not Cindy Olavarri, who was involved in more serious doping than cough
syrup -- steroids.

And I also remember Grewal saying he had teflon or heavy metal (I
can't remember which) poisoning, whatever that is.

Salmonella is what I recall. Didn't quiite ring true either.

Ron

I remember now. It wasn't Twigg (and it wasn't Olivarri). Without naming
names, it was someone who was on the Team Lowrey's team.

On 5/28/07 3:18 PM, in article [email hidden], "Carl

Sundquist said:

"Caroline" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:LuJ6i.2893$9G3.1482@trnddc07...

Quoted message said:

I only talked to him briefly at a race in Colorado about the cheese diet
because I'd also had hepatitis, though a few years before. He didn't deny
hepatitis in our conversation, and he did name the cheeses, most of which
were unavailable in the U.S. On the other hand, I don't recall him
saying, "Yes! I had hepatitis!" There *was* obfuscation about exactly
what was wrong, but in that brief conversation there was no denial of
liver involvement. As I recall. (How long ago WAS that!)

Somehow, I'm thinking '87, although it could have been at the '86 Wheat
Thins race in the Garden of the Gods near Colorado Springs.

Geez........ Your old.

"ST" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

On 5/28/07 3:18 PM, in article [email hidden], "Carl

Sundquist said:

"Caroline" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:LuJ6i.2893$9G3.1482@trnddc07...

Quoted message said:

I only talked to him briefly at a race in Colorado about the cheese diet
because I'd also had hepatitis, though a few years before. He didn't
deny
hepatitis in our conversation, and he did name the cheeses, most of
which
were unavailable in the U.S. On the other hand, I don't recall him
saying, "Yes! I had hepatitis!" There *was* obfuscation about exactly
what was wrong, but in that brief conversation there was no denial of
liver involvement. As I recall. (How long ago WAS that!)

Somehow, I'm thinking '87, although it could have been at the '86 Wheat
Thins race in the Garden of the Gods near Colorado Springs.

Geez........ Your old.

And I'm not in denial about it either.

"Carl Sundquist" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

"Caroline" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:LuJ6i.2893$9G3.1482@trnddc07...

Quoted message said:

I only talked to him briefly at a race in Colorado about the cheese diet
because I'd also had hepatitis, though a few years before. He didn't
deny hepatitis in our conversation, and he did name the cheeses, most of
which were unavailable in the U.S. On the other hand, I don't recall him
saying, "Yes! I had hepatitis!" There *was* obfuscation about exactly
what was wrong, but in that brief conversation there was no denial of
liver involvement. As I recall. (How long ago WAS that!)

Somehow, I'm thinking '87, although it could have been at the '86 Wheat
Thins race in the Garden of the Gods near Colorado Springs.

More likely the race at Mount Crested Butte, whatever it was called and
whatever year that was. I was driving support for my son's team in the road
race, and we ended up waiting at the side of the road for an ambulance to
transport Frankie Andreu after a really bad crash That year.

Caroline

Carl Sundquist said:

"Caroline" <[email hidden]> wrote in message

Quoted message said:

I only talked to him briefly at a race in Colorado about the cheese diet
because I'd also had hepatitis, though a few years before. He didn't deny
hepatitis in our conversation, and he did name the cheeses, most of which
were unavailable in the U.S. ...

Somehow, I'm thinking '87, although it could have been at the '86 Wheat
Thins race in the Garden of the Gods near Colorado Springs.

Wheat Thins are good, but not with blue cheese!
Wouldn't a bit of pain de campagne be more
appropriate?

Ben

On May 29, 9:02 am, "[email hidden]" <[email hidden]>

Quoted message said:

Wheat Thins are good, but not with blue cheese!
Wouldn't a bit of pain de campagne be more
appropriate?

Triscuits.

John Forrest Tomlinson said:

And I also remember Grewal saying he had teflon or heavy metal (I
can't remember which) poisoning, whatever that is.

Overdosed on chain lube ?

"Caroline" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:1EJ6i.3098$9G3.1994@trnddc07...

Quoted message said:

You had to live with a phone in your hand (before the days of cell phones)
checking on what you could take and what you couldn't. Exercise induced
asthma was a problem because nearly all inhalers were banned because of
epinephrine.

You still can't tell what is banned and what isn't. Although you would think
that the ingredients on the package label are supposed to tell you what is
in the package, that's not really the case. There are all sorts of things
that are considered "normal" that simply aren't on the labels because for
some reason it is assumed that everyone will understand they're there.

When I was painting a room the directions on the label said, "If there is
mildew on the walls wash it off with a dilute chlorine bleach solution." I
followed the directions then painted the paint on and ended up nearly dying
and suffering lung problems for over a year because they ASSUMED that
everyone knew that latex paint is ph balanced with - ammonia. Bleach and
ammonia generate chlorine which was the world's first military poison gas.
Combining it with the lime in the wallboard converted some of it to
chloramine - the second military poison gas which is 10 times deadlier.

Although there are records and records of the effects of chlorine gas, not
one single doctor I talked to could identify the symptoms. Instead they told
me I was having a heart attack.

"Tom Kunich" <cyclintom@yahoo. com> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

"Caroline" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:1EJ6i.3098$9G3.1994@trnddc07...

Quoted message said:

You had to live with a phone in your hand (before the days of cell
phones) checking on what you could take and what you couldn't. Exercise
induced asthma was a problem because nearly all inhalers were banned
because of epinephrine.

You still can't tell what is banned and what isn't. Although you would
think that the ingredients on the package label are supposed to tell you
what is in the package, that's not really the case. There are all sorts of
things that are considered "normal" that simply aren't on the labels
because for some reason it is assumed that everyone will understand
they're there.

When I was painting a room the directions on the label said, "If there is
mildew on the walls wash it off with a dilute chlorine bleach solution." I
followed the directions then painted the paint on and ended up nearly
dying and suffering lung problems for over a year because they ASSUMED
that everyone knew that latex paint is ph balanced with - ammonia. Bleach
and ammonia generate chlorine which was the world's first military poison
gas. Combining it with the lime in the wallboard converted some of it to
chloramine - the second military poison gas which is 10 times deadlier.

Although there are records and records of the effects of chlorine gas, not
one single doctor I talked to could identify the symptoms. Instead they
told me I was having a heart attack.

That's a nightmare! Hopefully it was long enough ago that the statute of
limitations has run out and you're fully recovered. At the time, a really
good attorney should have been able to sue successfully because by putting
the directions on the label without including the warning about possible
interactions, they really left the door wide open.

The world is full of hazards, some of which you can't protect yourself from.
My son developed exercise induced asthma as a result of being passed by a
truck during a bike race in Mexico that vented some sort of fumes that
caused him to collapse. By the time we got him back across the border and
to a hosptial, it was too late to check his blood gases, but doctors
suspected chlorine. So he was knocked out of cycling for a lot of years.
It could have all been avoided if he'd just been wearing scuba gear!

Caroline

"Caroline" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news😄Oo7i.8489$3B1.7014@trnddc08...

Quoted message said:

That's a nightmare! Hopefully it was long enough ago that the statute of
limitations has run out and you're fully recovered.

Yes, I'm sully recovered but it was years before that fear of breathing
disappeared.

Quoted message said:

At the time, a really good attorney should have been able to sue
successfully because by putting the directions on the label without
including the warning about possible interactions, they really left the
door wide open.

You'd think - but there's a trick. The paint company simply kept uping the
ante until I couldn't afford to carry on. They sell exactly the same stuff
today with exactly the same label.