Footpaths for me

Rod said:

Anyone ever kicked a car that's moving through a roundabout after failing to
give way to you? It hurts more than I thought it would (although I only had
half a second to consider whether it was wise or not..) I think I might
revert back to my teenage riding habits, and use whatever surface is safest
for me. I know it's not the right thing to do, and you'll probably give me
[censored] for giving riders a bad name or whatever, but I'm sick of having close
calls with cars. Many time I've avoided what would otherwise have resulted
in a collision. Today was just another example. I'd prefer to risk a fine
and trust myself with my pedestrian-avoiding skills than ride legally and
trust drivers with their bike-avoiding skills (that which there appears to
be little of..) My car-avoiding skills have kept be alive so far, but I'm
not sure how many more chances I want to give them. Until I consider the
roads safe for riding, I'll use them as little as possible.

Greetings,
The roads are indisputedly more dangerous, as 1.5 tonne chunks
of metal can kill you more quickly, but footpaths are no place for
cyclists, despite the legal strictures. Broken surfaces, kids,
cars backing out of drives, ete, etc. If you don't exercise your
right to occupy the road, motorists can assume you don't exist.
Off-road cycle paths embody a very old Australian philosophy, `Get
off the road ya mug'. Get out there and exercise your rights, and
have a good laugh at them when we get a gridlock.
Regards,
Ray.

Rod said:

Ray, you made a lot more sense than the first stupid reply.. Yes I agree
with what you say, but I've given the roads too many chances.. I want to
live. And live I will.

Until that LandCruiser backs over you..

Or the Commodore racing into the side street doesn't notice you crossing
the road because you're exiting from the footpath.

etc..

hippy
"Troll on!"

What's it like living in the future Rod ?

Your PC clock is set forward.

If you are in the future please do one of the following :

1. Provide me with the new lotto numbers before it happens.

2. Ride on the roads and know where the cars are.

If you are not living in the future do the following :

Change your PC time so you don't jump the que of other posters.

--
Tony

[email hidden]

Remove the fish to reply
--= This is a fish anti-spam device =--

`·.¸.·´¯`·...¸><((((º>
"Rod" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Ray, you made a lot more sense than the first stupid reply.. Yes I agree
with what you say, but I've given the roads too many chances.. I want to
live. And live I will.

On Mon, 28 Mar 2005 at 07:09 GMT, ><((((º> (aka Bruce)
was almost, but not quite, entirely unlike tea:

Quoted message said:

If you are not living in the future do the following :

Change your PC time so you don't jump the que of other posters.

His clock seems to be correct. Is your newsreader not smart enough to
know about timezones? Ah, microsoft, gottit.

Oh, and can I be the top post cop? Pretty Please?

--
TimC -- http://astronomy.swin.edu.au/staff/tconnors/
Press any key to continue, any other key to abort
-- thrillbert's code

TimC said:

On Mon, 28 Mar 2005 at 07:09 GMT, ><((((º> (aka Bruce)
was almost, but not quite, entirely unlike tea:

Quoted message said:

If you are not living in the future do the following :

Change your PC time so you don't jump the que of other posters.

His clock seems to be correct. Is your newsreader not smart enough to
know about timezones? Ah, microsoft, gottit.

I'm using Thunderbird and Rod's last three posts are dated 29th.
My PC reckons today is the 28th.
They are both computer-related so I don't trust either date 🙂

hippy

hippy said:

I'm using Thunderbird and Rod's last three posts are dated
29th. My PC reckons today is the 28th.
They are both computer-related so I don't trust either date 🙂

Ditto with Knode.

According to his message headers, Rod's computer's timezone is
set to UTC -8 hours (somewhere in America). If he's on the
east coast of Aust, it should be UTC + 10.

John

"Rod" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Anyone ever kicked a car that's moving through a roundabout after failing

to

Quoted message said:

give way to you? It hurts more than I thought it would (although I only

had

Quoted message said:

half a second to consider whether it was wise or not..) I think I might
revert back to my teenage riding habits, and use whatever surface is

safest

Quoted message said:

for me. I know it's not the right thing to do, and you'll probably give

me

Quoted message said:

[censored] for giving riders a bad name or whatever, but I'm sick of having

close

Quoted message said:

calls with cars. Many time I've avoided what would otherwise have

resulted

Quoted message said:

in a collision. Today was just another example. I'd prefer to risk a

fine

Quoted message said:

and trust myself with my pedestrian-avoiding skills than ride legally and
trust drivers with their bike-avoiding skills (that which there appears to
be little of..) My car-avoiding skills have kept be alive so far, but I'm
not sure how many more chances I want to give them. Until I consider the
roads safe for riding, I'll use them as little as possible.

I am 57 years old and after riding casually for ten years have taken to
commuting to work daily. What I'm saying is my opinion, and not necessarily
what is correct.

It is rare that anyone gives me right of way at a roundabout. Oddly enough,
the only few times I've had a car slow down when approaching a roundabout
with me just entering it, was when that car was on my right - when arguably
he had the right of way. As far as coming up behind me, well, I've yet to
find any car that doesn't try to run me off the road. The only way I've been
able to prevent that is riding smack in the middle of the road as I enter
the roundabout (you need to do that gradually and resonably ahead of the
roundabout). Often it's either that or get off your bike and wait until
scores of cars go through it. I even had a lady driver who almost mounted
the centre of the roundabout in her obsession not to let me through before
her.

The best way to ride a bike is to accept that you have no rights whatever.
If you're on the road and there's no bike track, then you should be on a
bike track and not stuffing up traffic. If you are on a bike track, then
you're not paying for the bike track, as drivers pay for the road through
their registration, so you still have no rights. Every driver has seen or
heard of cyclists who ride three abreast, or go through red lights, so you
by default are deemed to ride 3 abreast and going through red lights, even
if you have never done that. As a cyclist you are scum - a parasite who
doesn't pay his way and who obstructs decent drivers in getting to where
they are going.....

I hope you have taken the above in the cynicism I have written it. As far as
using the footpath, I have often done that when I feel the risk of getting
killed if on the road has become unacceptable. Just remember that if you do
ride on the footpath, you could not only be held accountable for hitting
some pedestrian, but you could get hit by an unseen car pulling out of a
driveway. They you most definitely have no rights.

I have found that once you get into a mindset that you *expect* drivers not
to give you any right of way, that can make for a more pleasant bike ride.
At least then you don't get mad at anyone. Also once you accept that only
once in a while a driver will be out to get you, you're much more at peace.

As I said, this is my opinion, and I may be corrected.

Henry.

On Mon, 28 Mar 2005 at 09:23 GMT, John Henderson (aka Bruce)
was almost, but not quite, entirely unlike tea:

Quoted message said:

hippy said:

I'm using Thunderbird and Rod's last three posts are dated
29th. My PC reckons today is the 28th.

Odd: I get:
Date: Mon, 28 Mar 2005 15:35:28 -0800

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

They are both computer-related so I don't trust either date 🙂

Ditto with Knode.

According to his message headers, Rod's computer's timezone is
set to UTC -8 hours (somewhere in America). If he's on the
east coast of Aust, it should be UTC + 10.

Or he's posting on a machine that is based in the US. Not likely,
because OE doesn't work over ssh, however, his server could be
rewriting headers for him.

Um. Bikes. Yeah. Bikes are cool. 🙂

--
TimC -- http://astronomy.swin.edu.au/staff/tconnors/
E = MC ** 2 +- 3db

On Mon, 28 Mar 2005 at 09:42 GMT, hemyd (aka Bruce)
was almost, but not quite, entirely unlike tea:

Quoted message said:

I am 57 years old and after riding casually for ten years have taken to
commuting to work daily. What I'm saying is my opinion, and not necessarily
what is correct.

That's odd. My opinion is always correct 🙂

Quoted message said:

It is rare that anyone gives me right of way at a roundabout. Oddly enough,
the only few times I've had a car slow down when approaching a roundabout
with me just entering it, was when that car was on my right - when arguably
he had the right of way.

Arguably? Not much arguable about it. The law says you must give way
to anything already on the roundabout. This usually translates to
giving way to your right, and if I understand the situation properly,
that is what you were intending on doing.

'Course, I get the sitation you describe occur about monthly - I just
give them a bit of a glare when they wave me through, because they
screwed up my timing.

Quoted message said:

As far as coming up behind me, well, I've yet to
find any car that doesn't try to run me off the road. The only way I've been
able to prevent that is riding smack in the middle of the road as I enter
the roundabout (you need to do that gradually and resonably ahead of the
roundabout).

You definitely need to assert yourself more. Taking the middle of the
lane is called "claiming the lane", and is a normal part of using
intersections, roundabouts, etc, from the point of view of most
regular commuters and road users (bar yourself, it seems). I
typically go through roundabouts much much faster than cars anyway, as
long as it is safe for me to do so, so cars never get the chance to
overtake me, except if I am going uphill, in which case I will
certainly be in the middle of the lane. At other times, I will choose
the line that suits me best. Maybe it helps to have a helmet mirror.
With the mirror, I know just when to pull out into the middle of the
lane -- lately, I've been pulling out further and further back if I
see a car coming, because it is increasingly becoming the norm that a
car will overtake when there is bugger all room left before the
intersection, and end up sitting there for ages because they don't
realise it is legal to turn into a left lane when only the right lane
is occupied by traffic.

I can only recall one sitation in which someone failed to give way to
me when I was on a roundabout - they barged through at 50km/h, barely
slowing down from their 60km/h in the 50km/h zone, and I was turning
right with my right arm extended. In those sitations, it pays to be
alert - it was obvious they weren't going to stop, so I slammed the
brakes on - they missed my front wheel by about 5-10cm. Don't think
they saw me, even after my ranting and raving.

--
TimC -- http://astronomy.swin.edu.au/staff/tconnors/

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Imagine what a tipped over tractor-trailer formerly
full of potatoes looks like.

Not half as messy as a truckload of oranges.

Or a hovercraft full of eels. -- Tanuki on ASR

TimC said:

On Mon, 28 Mar 2005 at 09:42 GMT, hemyd (aka Bruce)
was almost, but not quite, entirely unlike tea:

Quoted message said:

I am 57 years old and after riding casually for ten years have taken to
commuting to work daily. What I'm saying is my opinion, and not necessarily
what is correct.

That's odd. My opinion is always correct 🙂

Is not!

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

It is rare that anyone gives me right of way at a roundabout.

Not my experience.

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

As far as coming up behind me, well, I've yet to find any car that
doesn't try to run me off the road.

Look, I'm a bitter and twisted cynical psycholist, but aren't you
overstating it a bit? Looking at my comments, it might seem like
everyone is out to get me, but 'most' people pass without incident. It's
only the dickwits that get the mention because they are abnormal (and
dangerous).

Quoted message said:

I typically go through roundabouts much much faster than cars anyway, as
long as it is safe for me to do so, so cars never get the chance to
overtake me, except if I am going uphill, in which case I will
certainly be in the middle of the lane.

Ja, except if I'm 'that' much slower than traffic, I'm not too keen on
pissing off Robbo in his 'dore so I move left to let him pass.
Generally people don't get too close. I guess 'too close' is relative to
your steely nerves in traffic 🙂

Quoted message said:

I can only recall one sitation in which someone failed to give way to
me when I was on a roundabout - they barged through at 50km/h, barely
slowing down from their 60km/h in the 50km/h zone, and I was turning
right with my right arm extended. In those sitations, it pays to be
alert - it was obvious they weren't going to stop, so I slammed the
brakes on - they missed my front wheel by about 5-10cm. Don't think
they saw me, even after my ranting and raving.

I've been hit in one roundabout. Mildura, years ago, red [censored] Corolla
or similar make. I was in the roundabout going straight through and they
were to my left, also going straight through. They should have waited at
the line (I was 3/4 of the way through) but decided instead to plow
straight into me. Guess visibility was bad.. in the middle of the day..
in sunny Mildura?
Luckily they only hit my front wheel and I did the OTB dance. They
didn't even slow down. I was on the ground in the middle of the
intersection. A few drivers called out to see if I was okay, as I
straightened the bars on the roadie, see:
http://cgi.ebay.com.au/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&rd=1&item=7145502254

That's once in ~15 years (well, once at a roundabout 🙂). If I thought
cycling on the road was riskier than the footpath I'd be on the footpath
(scew the law) but as it stands, I find the road safer. I run over less
pensioners on the road too. Only just less, mind you..

hippy 😉

hemyd said:

The only way I've been
able to prevent that is riding smack in the middle of the road as I enter
the roundabout (you need to do that gradually and resonably ahead of the
roundabout). Often it's either that or get off your bike and wait until
scores of cars go through it.

Agreed. I think the theory of operation is, if you stay right up against the
side of the curb, they're more likely to use that lane, and pass you with a few
centimeters to spare.

If you ride in the middle of the lane, or on the right hand track of the
lane, they're much more likely to correctly overtake you by using the adjacent
lane (if there's more than one lane) or give you a wider berth.
--
Linux Registered User # 302622 <http://counter.li.org>

On Mon, 28 Mar 2005 at 11:07 GMT, hippy (aka Bruce)
was almost, but not quite, entirely unlike tea:

Quoted message said:

http://cgi.ebay.com.au/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&rd=1&item=7145502254

Just how bent is it?

Reserectable for a smallish amount?

--
TimC -- http://astronomy.swin.edu.au/staff/tconnors/
Failure is not an option. It comes bundled with your Microsoft product.
-- Ferenc Mantfeld

Yes, my timezone was set incorrectly.. I'm not sure how that happened, ah
well.

TimC said:

On Mon, 28 Mar 2005 at 11:07 GMT, hippy (aka Bruce)
was almost, but not quite, entirely unlike tea:

Quoted message said:

http://cgi.ebay.com.au/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&rd=1&item=7145502254

Just how bent is it?

Bars are bent from numerous crashes. Chainrings and/or BB axle are bent
from the pure power contained with my legs <cough> <splutter> [censored]!
<cough> Frame could be bent. Um.. that's all I can really remember. The
rear tyre punctured one day and it's been in the garage unmoved since
then. I think that was four years ago!!!

Quoted message said:

Reserectable for a smallish amount?

To what standard?
I mean, fix the puncture and the thing will get you down the street, but
I wouldn't want to spend much time on it nowadays 🙂

hippy

Anyone ever kicked a car that's moving through a roundabout after failing to
give way to you? It hurts more than I thought it would (although I only had
half a second to consider whether it was wise or not..) I think I might
revert back to my teenage riding habits, and use whatever surface is safest
for me. I know it's not the right thing to do, and you'll probably give me
[censored] for giving riders a bad name or whatever, but I'm sick of having close
calls with cars. Many time I've avoided what would otherwise have resulted
in a collision. Today was just another example. I'd prefer to risk a fine
and trust myself with my pedestrian-avoiding skills than ride legally and
trust drivers with their bike-avoiding skills (that which there appears to
be little of..) My car-avoiding skills have kept be alive so far, but I'm
not sure how many more chances I want to give them. Until I consider the
roads safe for riding, I'll use them as little as possible.

In article <[email hidden]>, [email hidden] says...

Quoted message said:

What makes you think I don't have a love of cycling?

It requires a love of cycling to face the risks, real and perceived, and
get out and do it properly. Car drivers have a false sense of security
in their steel boxes. The risks are more in-our-faces as cyclists.

My wife commutes to the City each day and rides on roads 'til she reaches
the inner city bikeway. Car drivers (friends) ask her how she does it (-
rides on the road that is) in moderate to heavy traffic. They can't see
how it could be done... you are still at that point... you can't see.

Last year I commuted for 4 months in the opposite direction. Driving
work colleagues asked me the same. My answer: It was a combination of
route choice, yielding to motorists and "claiming the road" when
neccessary.

By travelling on footpaths you have to drop your speed to less than 20kph
for average speeds that make any distance impractical. On the road,
speeds of 35+ yield averages of <30kph.

You cannot face the risks so have decided to go where you wrongly believe
they are less. Crossing numerous driveways, dodging oblivious
unpredictable pedestrians and crossing many, many intersections from an
unexpected, invisible position you will discover this... one way or
another.

Quoted message said:

And what makes you
think I don't want to improve my skills?

You have gone the less-than-12-yrs-old-just-popping-down-to-the-shops
route... instead of researching alternative routes and learning how to
"claim the road" as written in another post... instead of improving your
skills you are reverting to childhood practices (and saying a cyclist has
no place on the road).

Quoted message said:

And other than the fact that I
don't post here all that often, what makes you think I'm a troll?

I wasn't going to answer your post at first because it seemed like
something written by a disqualified driver just aimed at inciting
controversy.

Quoted message said:

I
wouldn't be surprised if I ride more than half the regular posters..

That wouldn't be hard.

--
Mark Lee

hippy said:

TimC said:

On Mon, 28 Mar 2005 at 09:42 GMT, hemyd (aka Bruce)
was almost, but not quite, entirely unlike tea:

Quoted message said:

I am 57 years old and after riding casually for ten years have taken to
commuting to work daily. What I'm saying is my opinion, and not
necessarily
what is correct.

That's odd. My opinion is always correct 🙂

Is not!

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

It is rare that anyone gives me right of way at a roundabout.

Not my experience.

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

As far as coming up behind me, well, I've yet to find any car that

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

doesn't try to run me off the road.

Look, I'm a bitter and twisted cynical psycholist, but aren't you
overstating it a bit? Looking at my comments, it might seem like
everyone is out to get me, but 'most' people pass without incident. It's
only the dickwits that get the mention because they are abnormal (and
dangerous).

Quoted message said:

I typically go through roundabouts much much faster than cars anyway, as
long as it is safe for me to do so, so cars never get the chance to
overtake me, except if I am going uphill, in which case I will
certainly be in the middle of the lane.

Ja, except if I'm 'that' much slower than traffic, I'm not too keen on
pissing off Robbo in his 'dore so I move left to let him pass.
Generally people don't get too close. I guess 'too close' is relative to
your steely nerves in traffic 🙂

Quoted message said:

I can only recall one sitation in which someone failed to give way to
me when I was on a roundabout - they barged through at 50km/h, barely
slowing down from their 60km/h in the 50km/h zone, and I was turning
right with my right arm extended. In those sitations, it pays to be
alert - it was obvious they weren't going to stop, so I slammed the
brakes on - they missed my front wheel by about 5-10cm. Don't think
they saw me, even after my ranting and raving.

I've been hit in one roundabout. Mildura, years ago, red [censored] Corolla
or similar make. I was in the roundabout going straight through and they
were to my left, also going straight through. They should have waited at
the line (I was 3/4 of the way through) but decided instead to plow
straight into me. Guess visibility was bad.. in the middle of the day..
in sunny Mildura?
Luckily they only hit my front wheel and I did the OTB dance. They
didn't even slow down. I was on the ground in the middle of the
intersection. A few drivers called out to see if I was okay, as I
straightened the bars on the roadie, see:
http://cgi.ebay.com.au/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&rd=1&item=7145502254

That's once in ~15 years (well, once at a roundabout 🙂). If I thought
cycling on the road was riskier than the footpath I'd be on the footpath
(scew the law) but as it stands, I find the road safer. I run over less
pensioners on the road too. Only just less, mind you..

hippy 😉

Greetings,
To top off this thread, I once had a lovely incident at a
roundabout, c. 1990 in Boronia Vic. A yellow 4WD (what else?)
started edging towards me across the line. I yelled `Watch it!'
(fairly mild) in reply.
I continued up the road, and the 4WD appeared in the service road
on my left. `What did you say?', the driver demanded. I prudently
made no reply. He then stated, `I gonna kill ya'.
At this, I could no longer contain my usual sardonic humour (he
was a bit of a runt anyway) and I replied, `You and whose army?'
The driver did the stupidest thing possible. Instead of trying to
run me down in his vehicle, he actually got out of the car and
came after me screaming and waving a hammer.
I thought this very funny, as even on an uphill, I was easily able
to outpace him, go up the footpath for a few hundred metres and
lose him completely. It's amazing the morons you run into out there.
Regards,
Ray.

"Ray Peace" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Rod said:

Anyone ever kicked a car that's moving through a roundabout after failing
to give way to you? It hurts more than I thought it would (although I
only had half a second to consider whether it was wise or not..) I think
I might revert back to my teenage riding habits, and use whatever surface
is safest for me. I know it's not the right thing to do, and you'll
probably give me [censored] for giving riders a bad name or whatever, but I'm
sick of having close calls with cars. Many time I've avoided what would
otherwise have resulted in a collision. Today was just another example.
I'd prefer to risk a fine and trust myself with my pedestrian-avoiding
skills than ride legally and trust drivers with their bike-avoiding
skills (that which there appears to be little of..) My car-avoiding
skills have kept be alive so far, but I'm not sure how many more chances
I want to give them. Until I consider the roads safe for riding, I'll
use them as little as possible.

Greetings,
The roads are indisputedly more dangerous, as 1.5 tonne chunks of metal
can kill you more quickly, but footpaths are no place for cyclists,
despite the legal strictures. Broken surfaces, kids, cars backing out of
drives, ete, etc. If you don't exercise your right to occupy the road,
motorists can assume you don't exist. Off-road cycle paths embody a very
old Australian philosophy, `Get off the road ya mug'. Get out there and
exercise your rights, and have a good laugh at them when we get a
gridlock.
Regards,
Ray.

Ray, you made a lot more sense than the first stupid reply.. Yes I agree
with what you say, but I've given the roads too many chances.. I want to
live. And live I will.

Rod said:

Obviously I am watching out for them. I often come to a complete stop if I
can't see into a drive way. It might not be efficient riding, but it's safe
and fun.

Stopping every 20ft is fun?

hippy