food coloring made from coal tar?

ziliath said:

A. 6 out of 7 major food colors used in the USA are banned
outside of the USA

Banned where? By whom? All synthetic food colors in the U.S.
have to pass very strict regulations, including for example
not causing cancer in animals in any amount. Even the
weakest carcinogen cannot be a food additive in the U.S.
Currently, there is some controversy over FD&C Yellow #5,
because it causes hives in less than 1 out of 10,000 people.
It may be banned someday, especially if a replacement
becomes available. However, so far the FDA deems it an
acceptable risk.

Quoted message said:

B. most food coloring used in the USA is made from
coal tar

There is a class of chemicals known as the "coal tar dyes"
no matter what material they are made from. They got this
name because back in the mid-19th century, they were
developed by the German chemical industry from coal tar
which was produced as a by-product of the cooking of coal to
make synthetic gas used for heating and light and coke (pure
carbon) used for refining steel. The name stuck, even though
most of these chemicals are made from petroleum these days.
The major raw coal-tar feedstocks were benzene, napthalene,
and anthracene, which are the one-ring, two-ring, and three-
ring hydrocarbons. You could call any derivatives of these
structures "coal tar derivatives", even if they were made
from some completely different material. That encompasses
almost all of the interesting synthetic organic chemicals.

Certain coal-tar dyes like the rhodamines are slightly
carcinogenic, but they were banned over 50 years ago. None
of the currently allowed food colors have any demonstrated
cancer-causing ability, even at high doses in the most
sensitive animals.

Note that the main hazard from food colors is not in the
U.S., but outside. For example, rhodamine continues to be
used as a food color in Vietnam and mainland China.
Frequently, FDA seizes imported food products containing
these banned colors.

Quoted message said:

I would like to get any info that confirms or denies
these claims.

The current regulatory status of all U.S. food colors is
disclosed here:

fda.govappA12.htOpen ↗
ml

Note that FD&C means "Food, Drug, and Cosmetic", which are
dyes approved for food drug and cosmetic use. D&C means a
dye is approved for drug and cosmetic but not food use. A
lake is a pigment made by applying a dye to an insoluble
white powder like alumina or kaolin to increase the coloring
power of the dye.

"Mark Thorson" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
"]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

ziliath said:

A. 6 out of 7 major food colors used in the USA are
banned outside of the USA

Banned where? By whom? All synthetic food colors in the
U.S. have to pass very strict regulations, including for
example not causing cancer in animals in any amount. Even
the weakest carcinogen cannot be a food additive in the
U.S. Currently, there is some controversy over FD&C Yellow
#5, because it causes hives in less than 1 out of 10,000
people. It may be banned someday, especially if a
replacement becomes available. However, so far the FDA
deems it an acceptable risk.

Quoted message said:

B. most food coloring used in the USA is made from coal
tar

There is a class of chemicals known as the "coal tar dyes"
no matter what material they are made from. They got this
name because back in the mid-19th century, they were
developed by the German chemical industry from coal tar
which was produced as a by-product of the cooking of coal
to make synthetic gas used for heating and light and coke
(pure carbon) used for refining steel. The name stuck,
even though most of these chemicals are made from
petroleum these days. The major raw coal-tar feedstocks
were benzene, napthalene, and anthracene, which are the
one-ring, two-ring, and three-ring hydrocarbons. You could
call any derivatives of these structures "coal tar
derivatives", even if they were made from some completely
different material. That encompasses almost all of the
interesting synthetic organic chemicals.

Certain coal-tar dyes like the rhodamines are slightly
carcinogenic, but they were banned over 50 years ago. None
of the currently allowed food colors have any demonstrated
cancer-causing ability, even at high doses in the most
sensitive animals.

Note that the main hazard from food colors is not in the
U.S., but outside. For example, rhodamine continues to be
used as a food color in Vietnam and mainland China.
Frequently, FDA seizes imported food products containing
these banned colors.

Quoted message said:

I would like to get any info that confirms or denies
these claims.

The current regulatory status of all U.S. food colors is
disclosed here:

fda.govappOpen ↗
A12.html

Note that FD&C means "Food, Drug, and Cosmetic", which are
dyes approved for food drug and cosmetic use. D&C means a
dye is approved for drug and cosmetic but not food use. A
lake is a pigment made by applying a dye to an insoluble
white powder like alumina or kaolin to increase the
coloring power of the dye.

The more fundamental issue is, why would we want to eat a
food that had been tampered with to the extent that it had
to be colored? The whole concept of eating synthetic
chemicals is just not very astute.

Quoted message said:

ziliath said:

A. 6 out of 7 major food colors used in the USA are
banned outside of the USA

Banned where? By whom? All synthetic food colors in the
U.S. have to pass very strict regulations, including for
example not causing cancer in animals in any amount. Even
the weakest carcinogen cannot be a food additive in the
U.S. Currently, there is some controversy over FD&C Yellow
#5, because it causes hives in less than 1 out of 10,000
people. It may be banned someday, especially if a
replacement becomes available. However, so far the FDA
deems it an acceptable risk.

<snip>

Thank you for the very thoughtful reply. I hope that will
calm the MHA somatically hypervigilant contingent.

Quoted message said:

Subject: food coloring made from coal tar?
From: [email hidden] (ziliath)
Date: 4/4/04 5:12 PM Eastern Daylight Time
Message-id: <[email hidden]>

Quoted message said:

I'm always in search of the actual facts, not to be
confused with what the media tells me, and I recently read
in a handout from a health food store the following two
interesting claims:

Quoted message said:

A. 6 out of 7 major food colors used in the USA are banned
outside of the USA

I cannot comment on this one since this is the first time I
have heard it.

It can very well be true, since the FDA does not do things
the way they are done in the rest of the world.

Quoted message said:

B. most food coloring used in the USA is made from coal tar

This one I can comment upon.

Early dyes were made from coal tar chemicals. Today, most
are made from petroleum chemicals.

The key is the following chemical reaction: R-NH2 exposed
to nitrite, NO2, and an acid, usually HCL, hydrochloric
acid, undergoes a reaction to form a diazonium ion, N2+.
This diazonium will bond to an aromatic ring like benzene
or naphthalene, or anthracene, etc. to form a -N=N- bond.
This bond produces chemicals with intense colors, thus
"coal tar" dyes.

All the coal tar dyes have the -N=N- bond as a part of their
chemical structure.

The first azo dye identified as a possible human carcinogen
was "butter yellow". Originally, soy oil butter, was a
white, plastic material and you had to add the dye to it to
make it the color of butter. A Japanese researcher showed
that butter yellow caused liver cancer in rats. That dye was
then replaced with another dye, and today you do not have to
add the dye at all. One of the azo dyes that I produced in
my cancer research produced liver cancer and killed all the
test animals within 30 days.

Never believe that chemicals cannot induce cancer and kill
you within months, even if you are not a mouse or a rat.

Keep in mind that nitrites are added to our foods to prevent
spoilage, particularly pork products. In the stomach you
have the exact conditions set up to produce azo dyes that I
would use in the lab. You have the nitrite, you have the
HCl, you have an abundace of amines, and you have aromatic
rings to bind to.

I say get the nitrites out of our foods.

DrC PhD.

DRCEEPHD said:

All the coal tar dyes have the -N=N- bond as a part of
their chemical structure.

No, they don't. For example, here's a link to the structure
of rhodamine B (D&C Red #37), formerly used as a food color
in the U.S. which continues to be used as a food color in
some Asian countries:

www02.so-net.ne.jpr215e.htmOpen ↗

It is a so-called coal tar dye, being a derivative of
anthracene. It's got two nitrogen atoms in it, but they are
on opposite sides of the molecule, not bonded to each other.

Why do you make up malarkey? Does it just amuse you to
say stuff that has no basis in reality? Do you really
believe any of it? Why do you pollute this newsgroup with
your musings?

Quoted message said:

Thank you for the very thoughtful reply. I hope that will
calm the MHA somatically hypervigilant contingent.

Hypervigilance against the corporation-controlled government
is entirely justified. The head of the FDA is a Monsanto
executive. The head of the Energy department is an Enron
executive. The system has been thoroughly corrupted,
therefore yes, one should even be skeptical about his
"thoughtful" reply which until confirmed by other sources
remains merely a set of claims of unknown origin.

ziliath said:

be skeptical about his "thoughtful" reply which until
confirmed by other sources remains merely a set of claims
of unknown origin.

As opposed to, say, the handout you obtained from a health
food store?

What sources did that handout cite as evidence for their
absurd claims?

"DRCEEPHD" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
"]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Subject: food coloring made from coal

Quoted message said:

Keep in mind that nitrites are added to our foods to
prevent spoilage, particularly pork products. In the
stomach you have the exact conditions

set

Quoted message said:

up to produce azo dyes that I would use in the lab.

HAHAHAHAHA! For the uninitated, this idiot is lying. He
doesn't work in a lab.

le moio

ziliath said:

Quoted message said:

Thank you for the very thoughtful reply. I hope that will
calm the MHA somatically hypervigilant contingent.

Hypervigilance against the corporation-controlled
government is entirely justified. The head of the FDA
is a Monsanto executive. The head of the Energy
department is an Enron executive. The system has been
thoroughly corrupted, therefore yes, one should even be
skeptical about his "thoughtful" reply which until
confirmed by other sources remains merely a set of
claims of unknown origin.

You want the heads of regulatary agencies to know what they
are about, don't you?

Where are they going to get the experience except by working
the field.

The Presidency is the only office which does not require, or
even distains, prior experience.

j.

Quoted message said:

The past or present members of the FDA or Bush's cabinet
have no bearing on the scientific facts.

Oh, of course, and I'm sure there are really WMDs.

Please, talk out of your ass some more, it's great comedy.

Quoted message said:

I say get the nitrites out of our foods.

I already try to avoid foods that have additives of any
sort. But the typical person simply has no idea, and
especially if they are struggling just to survive while
corporations move jobs and industries overseas, they
aren't going to have the time or interest to be able to
think about it.

Quoted message said:

HAHAHAHAHA! For the uninitated, this idiot is lying. He
doesn't work in a lab.

diazonium definition: The univalent cation RN2, in which R
is an aromatic hydrocarbon.

azo dye definition: any of numerous dyes containing
azo groups

coal tar definition: tar obtained by distillation of
bituminous coal and used especially in making dyes and drugs

sodium nitrite definition: a salt NaNO2 used especially in
dye manufacture and as a meat preservative

Sounds like he's on the right track to me. Now please,
you back to eating your petroleum. The more in your case,
the better.

I have had an allergy to sodium nitrite since I was born. I
was almost 35 before I figured out what made me ache and
hurt. My mother used to tell me it was growing pains from
not drinking enough milk as a child when I would cry myself
to sleep each night from leg pains.

wow...LOL

"DRCEEPHD" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:20040405192841.26858.00000769@mb-
m12.aol.com...

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Subject: food coloring made from coal tar? From:
[email hidden] (ziliath) Date: 4/4/04 5:12 PM Eastern
Daylight Time Message-id:
<[email hidden]>

Quoted message said:

I'm always in search of the actual facts, not to be
confused with what the media tells me, and I recently
read in a handout from a health food store the following
two interesting claims:

Quoted message said:

A. 6 out of 7 major food colors used in the USA are
banned outside of the USA

I cannot comment on this one since this is the first time
I have heard it.

It can very well be true, since the FDA does not do things
the way they

are

Quoted message said:

done in the rest of the world.

Quoted message said:

B. most food coloring used in the USA is made from
coal tar

This one I can comment upon.

Early dyes were made from coal tar chemicals. Today, most
are made from petroleum chemicals.

The key is the following chemical reaction: R-NH2 exposed
to nitrite, NO2, and an acid, usually HCL, hydrochloric

acid,

Quoted message said:

undergoes a reaction to form a diazonium ion, N2+. This
diazonium will

bond to

Quoted message said:

an aromatic ring like benzene or naphthalene, or
anthracene, etc. to form

a

Quoted message said:

-N=N- bond. This bond produces chemicals with intense
colors, thus "coal

tar"

Quoted message said:

dyes.

All the coal tar dyes have the -N=N- bond as a part of
their chemical structure.

The first azo dye identified as a possible human
carcinogen was "butter yellow". Originally, soy oil
butter, was a white, plastic material and

you had

Quoted message said:

to add the dye to it to make it the color of butter. A
Japanese

researcher

Quoted message said:

showed that butter yellow caused liver cancer in rats.
That dye was then replaced with another dye, and today you
do not have to add the dye at

all.

Quoted message said:

One of the azo dyes that I produced in my cancer research
produced liver cancer and killed all the test animals
within 30 days.

Never believe that chemicals cannot induce cancer and kill
you within

months,

Quoted message said:

even if you are not a mouse or a rat.

Keep in mind that nitrites are added to our foods to
prevent spoilage, particularly pork products. In the
stomach you have the exact conditions

set

Quoted message said:

up to produce azo dyes that I would use in the lab. You
have the nitrite,

you

Quoted message said:

have the HCl, you have an abundace of amines, and you have
aromatic rings

to

Quoted message said:

bind to.

I say get the nitrites out of our foods.

DrC PhD.

In article <[email hidden]>,

Unfiltered Ilsa said:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

The past or present members of the FDA or Bush's cabinet
have no bearing on

the scientific facts.

Oh, of course, and I'm sure there are really WMDs.

The UN, US, FDR, UK, Israel, Iran & Saddam himself thought
there were WMD. They may well have been hidden, destroyed,
shipped to Syria, or dispersed to terrorists organizations
like Hamas, Hizbolla, & Al-Qaeda. The Israelis were so
afraid of bio/chem weapons that they had all their people,
including the Israeli Arabs, supplied with Gas Masks.

It would have been very simple for the US to have planted a
small amount of Anthrax and announced it as a "discovery".
The US has not done this.

Wait till we get a bit closer to the election. Today
is too soon.

-- David Wright :: alphabeta at prodigy.net These are my
opinions only, but they're almost always correct. "If I
have not seen as far as others, it is because giants were
standing on my shoulders." (Hal Abelson, MIT)