I'm going to get clip on aero bars and work on a position. Anyone care to guess how much they will help?
Joseph
Well, obviously that aero gear is going to make you slower. Duh. Cause it's expensive and heavy, and it doesn't work until you are a Cat 2 and averaging at least 27.94 mph. Below that is is just BUNK. LeMond is lucky he didn't LOSE the 89TdF due to his aero bars. Lucky for him Fignon was on a bad day that day, only placing third in the fastest-ever TT in the world's biggest race ever.
Forget the aero gear. Find an old Basso Loto, they are THE [censored] THAT WILL KILL THEM.
You've been arguing against the use of all TT equipment at Cat 4/5. I think everyone who does TTs should at minimum use clip-on aerobars which are quite affordable. The next step would be a rear disk wheel and a deep section front wheel.
<snip>
Dumbass -
Rear disc isn't that important.
The first order effect is spending a lot of time dialing in the position. The body is, by far, the biggest component of drag.
Second order effects are anything that are in "clean" air. Helmet, deep section front wheel, forks.
The rear disc is a fifth order effect. It spins in "dirty" air. Last is the frame - goes through "dirty" air and doesn't spin.
Ironically, the aerodynamic importance of a component seems to be inversely proportional to the cost. It is a fortuitous occurrence. Getting "aero" doesn't cost very much. Bars, helmet, fork, deep section front wheel. Can be done for less than $500 if you buy used on ebay or at swap meeets. If money is an issue, skip the fifth order effects, the rear wheel and frame. The system won't look as impressive as a setup w/ the rear disc and snazzy frame, but it will be very close in performance.
The last step: once one has the setup, train on it, at least once a week. Get used to making wattage in the bars.
thanks,
K. Gringioni.
Fair enough. I never got very serious about TT's myself so I haven't studied the details. I just know from experience that the bars and wheels work. In fact, a pair of deep section wheels is noticably faster in all road race conditions and I always race with them.
Fair enough. I never got very serious about TT's myself so I haven't studied the details. I just know from experience that the bars and wheels work. In fact, a pair of deep section wheels is noticably faster in all road race conditions and I always race with them.
Dumbass -
Good idea.
Towards the end of my racing days I was struck by how much attention (and money) people paid towards lightening up the bike while simultaneously ignoring aerodynamics. Weight savings are so tiny relative to the overall system (rider+bike) compared to potential aerodynamic drag reductions. It's possible to take one's drag index down 10%, but try cutting 10% off the bike/rider system. You'd have to have a 3 lb. bike.
Small breakaways in mass start races are basically mini team time trials.
I think one of the reasons aero gets ignored is that it's hard to quantify. You can weigh parts, but how many Masters Fatties have access to a wind tunnel? and the accompanying hard data that would tell a racer that the aero stuff makes a difference.
For what it's worth, I took some of the advice from the 10km TT thread and applied way more effort than I had been previously. BIG improvements. Holding my HR down to around LT resulted in about 23mph, but hammering all I have got me to 14:52. That's over 40 km/h or just over 25mph. That was also just me on the road, not at an arranged TT event which might have given me a mental boost. Still on a regular bike.
Good job! I think you are just getting started. A little specific high intensity training, and some work on your position and I bet you'll be close to 14. If you'd like some feedback on your position, slowtwitch and biketechreview are probably the best forums to post some pics.
Quoted message said:
I'm going to get clip on aero bars and work on a position. Anyone care to guess how much they will help?
Highly variable depending on how good your position is now, and how well you adapt to the bars... and refine your position. An improvement from 25mph to 26mph would be pretty normal though on a flat course.
For starters, I think I'd leave your seat position alone, and work on optimizing your upper body position with the aerobars.
Is "making wattage" a euphemism for picking up chicks?
Frankly, I don't see how spending more time in bars is going to improve one's TT, though getting laid more often might help indirectly. It's at least as good as any of Tom's advice so far.
Dumbass -
You gotta get comfortable riding in that position. If a rider is doing something long, like a 40k, they're gonna start sucking if their arms get tight or the back gets tight. People who are flexible usually don't have a problem, but a lotta riders, after thousands of hours of sitting on their hoods/drops, become inflexible in some places and don't feel comfortable in the aero bars for longer periods of time.
I'm not talking about just getting into aerobars like those guys that clip some bars onto their regular bars and are practically sitting straight up when they "get aero". I'm talking about getting in the bars that are set up right and *getting aero* (getting low (but not too low)).
Fair enough. I never got very serious about TT's myself so I haven't studied the details. I just know from experience that the bars and wheels work. In fact, a pair of deep section wheels is noticably faster in all road race conditions and I always race with them.
Agreed. At first I was a bit dubious about the cost of getting my Cosmics but they definitely make a difference and also reduce effort to stay at speed. These days only a gale force cross wind stops me from racing with them.
Well, according to the group experts, a beginning racer who can't average 23 mph on a ten kilometer flat course should run out and buy a complete TT bike.
Makes sense to me.
Henry, "renaldo", Asher, RonSonic, Bret and Charles know where it's at!
Not sure how I made that list. I've got no doubt I said something disagreeable, but it's very unlikely I advocated for the purchase of bike bling by a newby/fred. Honest, look at my bikes.
equipment. How you are supposed to compete at this level (say 29 mph) with a serious equipment disadvantage is not explained.
Time trialling is for pussies.
-- E. Dronkert
You'll get no argument from me. I'm more of a cyclocross specialist myself now. I used some very bad judgement getting into a TT discussion with Koach K.
Bret (who's racing a cross bike in an MTB hillclimb to 11,200 ft this Sat)
Is "making wattage" a euphemism for picking up chicks?
Frankly, I don't see how spending more time in bars is going to improve one's TT, though getting laid more often might help indirectly. It's at least as good as any of Tom's advice so far.
Dumbass -
You gotta get comfortable riding in that position. If a rider is doing something long, like a 40k, they're gonna start sucking if their arms get tight or the back gets tight. People who are flexible usually don't have a problem, but a lotta riders, after thousands of hours of sitting on their hoods/drops, become inflexible in some places and don't feel comfortable in the aero bars for longer periods of time.
I'm not talking about just getting into aerobars like those guys that clip some bars onto their regular bars and are practically sitting straight up when they "get aero". I'm talking about getting in the bars that are set up right and *getting aero* (getting low (but not too low)).
thanks,
K. Gringioni.
Dumbass,
By "bars", Ronaldo meant places that serve alcohol.
By "bars", Ronaldo meant places that serve alcohol.
Andy Coggan
KG has seriously impaired his chances of making the Livedrunk (c) fraternity (but all sexes welcomes) when he gives up the Fattie Masters Fan Club. Beyond appalling.
Curtis L. Russell Odenton, MD (USA) Just someone on two wheels...
H'mmm... looks a nice event. On that course a crosser should be a much better bet than a full-on mountain bike - if it is all non-technical, as they claim.
This weekend I am mostly organising a 400Km 24hour event across 7 mountain bike centres, with road bikes to link up between them.
-- [email hidden] (Simon Brooke) http://www.jasmine.org.uk/~simon/ ;; Our modern industrial economy takes a mountain covered with trees, ;; lakes, running streams and transforms it into a mountain of junk, ;; garbage, slime pits, and debris. -- Edward Abbey
