Following HR for rides

To train by HR you need to know what is your LTHR. Do a 3 miles time trial test (going all out). Your average HR after test is your LTHR. What is LTHR? A HR which "indicates" you are very close at going anaerobic. Is only an indication since HR has no different relation to your lactic acid in your blood. But LTHR is good enough to train on. For base miles, keep your HR at 70% of your LTHR. BTW, that's Joe Friel's HR training zones. I think other coaches use different (more) HR zones. Some even uses your max HR to start with.

sparknote_s said:

Today instead of watching my speed, I used a heart rate monitor. From what I hear, this is the correct way of training. I am trying to build up a base for myself....here's how the ride went:

35 mile loop
10 mph wind (head and tail at diff times)
avg heart rate 134
avg speed 15.6 mph

Is this the kind of ride I need to do for building up a base? I want to make sure, because it was REEEAALLLY easy. Even when my heart rate got up to 150 on hills, I would not know it was as high as 150 without looking at the HR monitor. Perhaps my max HR is higher than 220-age (competitive distance swimmer for 10 years prior)? I tried to keep my HR at 140 but I had to take a short detour after getting something in my eye, so that's why it's a little lower.

Heart rate is something you can be aware of, but it is not the be all and end all or training. Search this board for posts about heart rates and you will see the advantages and disadvantages of it.

cyclingforums.comt202754 your heartrate in rest.htmlOpen ↗

cyclingforums.comt194532 max rate youve had your heart.htmlOpen ↗

If you are really serious, and can afford it, get a power meter.

BlueJersey said:

To train by HR you need to know what is your LTHR. Do a 3 miles time trial test (going all out). Your average HR after test is your LTHR. What is LTHR? A HR which "indicates" you are very close at going anaerobic. Is only an indication since HR has no different relation to your lactic acid in your blood. But LTHR is good enough to train on. For base miles, keep your HR at 70% of your LTHR. BTW, that's Joe Friel's HR training zones. I think other coaches use different (more) HR zones. Some even uses your max HR to start with.

Doing a 3-mile TT would not measure your "LT HR" no matter what CTS may suggest (if indeed that is what they suggest). While some coaches erroneously refer to a 1-hr TT avg HR at LT HR a 3mile TT would be even higher [HR].

If you go to a lab and get your LT measured it would firstly not be correct to give it a HR value and secondly and most importantly, LT is actually a somewhat low level, that most trained cyclists can sustain for ~ 3-hrs or so.

There are two common definitions of LT, these being the workrate (i.e., power in cycling or velocity in running) that elicits a 1mmol/L increase in lactate over exercise baseline levels. this would be ~ 2.X mmol/L

The other common definition is the work rate that elicits a lactate reading of 2.5 mmol/L.

For both of these the power would be about 10 - 15% less than you can sustain for a 1-hr TT and obviously a lot less than that which you could sustain for a 3-mile TT.

Accordingly, LT is nowhere near an anaerobic level.

In relation to the OP query, you would need to 'anchor' your HR from training to some level that you have measured. For e.g., myself (although i generally only use power zones), others, and British Cycling base HR training levels on HRmax, while others do it on ~1-hr TT avg HR.

ric

Ok thanks for all the technical info...but I can't use most of it since my most high tech equipment is a plain old heart rate monitor from 1999 (I can't enter my own target zones even). I also have a bike computer with cadence. That's it.

I don't have access to test my LT or vo2 max anywhere, so all I have is my age (18) height (5' 10"😉 weight (140 lbs) gender (male) max HR (205) and resting HR (55). Since that's the most information I'm going to have access to, based on that, what HR zone would be the best bet to be in for the base phase?

sparknote_s said:

Ok thanks for all the technical info...but I can't use most of it since my most high tech equipment is a plain old heart rate monitor from 1999 (I can't enter my own target zones even). I also have a bike computer with cadence. That's it.

I don't have access to test my LT or vo2 max anywhere, so all I have is my age (18) height (5' 10"😉 weight (140 lbs) gender (male) max HR (205) and resting HR (55). Since that's the most information I'm going to have access to, based on that, what HR zone would be the best bet to be in for the base phase?

Believe you're on the right track; endurance rides shouldn't feel hard. But, your average of 134 would only be 65% of your max, which is more like a recovery pace.

Suggest you try 75-80% of max HR as a target range. That would be 154-164 bpm in your case. You need to stay in the aerobic zone, so try not to exceed 164 even on hills. Your breathing should always be easy and controlled.

Agree that precision is best, but most of us recreational riders aren't going to get lab tested to determine the power we produce at LT. Believe you can do effective endurance training without precise knowledge of your power levels; that's would be more critical later if you decide to go for high-intensity race training.

Ok, today I tried for a little higher HR.

25 miles
avg heart rate 150
avg speed 15.9 mph

Is there any way you can overtrain by doing a base phase with rides like this, if you at least have a history of athletics?

As has been said 70-75% of your max is a good base training level. At that level you won't be breathing hard and should still be able to talk easily. The 220 - age thing is not very reliable, mine is about 20 beats higher.

When you're ready to test it, go flat out up a steep hill after a warm-up and look at your rate when you feel really maxed out aerobically. Cool off and do it twice more and take an average. This will be close enough to your max HR. It's unlikely you would over train at 70% base level if you have a life outside cycling and a day job. If you are going to race it's worth roughly working out your lactate threshhold which is your rate at the edge of lactic acid overload or when you are about to blow or lock your muscles. Training at the threshhold as part of you plan, say one session a week when you get fit will push it higher and also give you an idea of how hard you can go and keep it up without blowing. Esential knowledge for time trials or road racing when you are out on your own. Good Luck Jay.

Yeah, I was having one of those mellow workouts yesterday you describe. Then when I was hiding my pack on the side of the road, someone came whooshing by in full battle gear (racing jersey, heavily tanned, etc). I figured what the heck. I'd give it a shot at trying to bury the guy. I hopped back on my bike and trailed back about 100 meters, glimpsing occasionally at my hrm. I was surprised to see 156, but I felt great, and I suspected I could leave him in the dust. So I came up on him and about 2 meters back, I attacked and flew past him. I never looked back until about 10 km farther down that road. My heart rate was between 165 and 170 bpm the whole time. I looked back, and he was nowhere in sight. I turned around at the end of my path and returned to see him still coming my way way farther back than I had guessed he was. I was glad I didn't look back earlier because I would have lost a whole lot of motivation to keep the rates pegged that high. 🙂 By the way, I wouldn't recommend this unless you've been training a little in the winter. I like to ski in the winter time. But nothing beats a little competition for getting your heart rate up. You'll wonder where you're getting all that power you didn't think you had until the threat comes into focus.

gntlmn said:

Yeah, I was having one of those mellow workouts yesterday you describe. Then when I was hiding my pack on the side of the road, someone came whooshing by in full battle gear (racing jersey, heavily tanned, etc). I figured what the heck. I'd give it a shot at trying to bury the guy. I hopped back on my bike and trailed back about 100 meters, glimpsing occasionally at my hrm. I was surprised to see 156, but I felt great, and I suspected I could leave him in the dust. So I came up on him and about 2 meters back, I attacked and flew past him. I never looked back until about 10 km farther down that road. My heart rate was between 165 and 170 bpm the whole time. I looked back, and he was nowhere in sight. I turned around at the end of my path and returned to see him still coming my way way farther back than I had guessed he was. I was glad I didn't look back earlier because I would have lost a whole lot of motivation to keep the rates pegged that high. 🙂 By the way, I wouldn't recommend this unless you've been training a little in the winter. I like to ski in the winter time. But nothing beats a little competition for getting your heart rate up. You'll wonder where you're getting all that power you didn't think you had until the threat comes into focus.

You ever think the guy could have been on a recovery ride? sick,been on bike 5hrs,just finished intervals, and just riding his own ride?

otherworld said:

If you are going to race it's worth roughly working out your lactate threshhold which is your rate at the edge of lactic acid overload or when you are about to blow or lock your muscles....

....Esential knowledge for time trials or road racing when you are out on your own. Good Luck Jay.

as i mentioned four posts above, the first part of the quote above isn't true. LT is only a moderate level that can be sustained for several plus hours in trained cyclists.

the latter point isn't true either (although could be valid for some people). If you have a power meter you wouldn't care about your HR and additionally, many people or coaches base HR training on HRmax

ric

sparknote_s said:

Ok, today I tried for a little higher HR.

25 miles
avg heart rate 150
avg speed 15.9 mph

Is there any way you can overtrain by doing a base phase with rides like this, if you at least have a history of athletics?

Assuming your true max HR is 205, 150 sounds like a good average for an endurance ride to me. Were you able to keep within a range (say a 145-155 bpm) for the ride?

You could overtrain doing base miles at this intensity if you built up mileage too quickly, eg, jumping from 25 miles per week to 100 all at once. This kind of jump would make you more prone to overuse injuries and recovery problems.

zaskar said:

You ever think the guy could have been on a recovery ride? sick,been on bike 5hrs,just finished intervals, and just riding his own ride?

Actually, I thought that's what it was from the start, before I even passed the guy. I wouldn't have been the least bit surprised if he would have passed me though, early on. That's the thrill of this, I suppose--having your own race, whether he wants to or not. That's why I didn't look back. I wanted to race. An imaginary pursuit loses its motivating influence when you discover it's not a pursuit at all. 😄

gntlmn said:

Actually, I thought that's what it was from the start, before I even passed the guy. I wouldn't have been the least bit surprised if he would have passed me though, early on. That's the thrill of this, I suppose--having your own race, whether he wants to or not. That's why I didn't look back. I wanted to race. An imaginary pursuit loses its motivating influence when you discover it's not a pursuit at all. 😄

so true! 😄