Folding tandem?

Tim Downie said:

Anyone seen/ridden one of these?
http://www.kinetics.org.uk/html/koga_twintraveller.shtml What are they like?

I've seen it, sat in the shop. It's an impressive /looking/ bit of kit,
certainly, though I didn't ride it. The fold looks pretty neat, and
Koga have a good reputation for solid gear that works well and isn't as
heavy as it looks. Build appears excellent. If we were after an
expedition tandem I'd be tempted, but I'd also pop over to Ben's and try
it out...

Pete.
--
Peter Clinch Medical Physics IT Officer
Tel 44 1382 660111 ext. 33637 Univ. of Dundee, Ninewells Hospital
Fax 44 1382 640177 Dundee DD1 9SY Scotland UK
net [email hidden] http://www.dundee.ac.uk/~pjclinch/

Tim Downie said:

Anyone seen/ridden one of these?
http://www.kinetics.org.uk/html/koga_twintraveller.shtml What are they like?

Tim

Large, sharp, square cornered hinge, sticking out and idealy positioned
at the stokers kneeheight

--
---
Marten Gerritsen

INFOapestaartjeM-GINEERINGpuntNL
www.m-gineering.nl

M-gineering said:

Tim Downie said:

Anyone seen/ridden one of these?
http://www.kinetics.org.uk/html/koga_twintraveller.shtml What are
they like? Tim

Large, sharp, square cornered hinge, sticking out and idealy
positioned at the stokers kneeheight

Now that you mention it, it does look like it could inflict a few bruises.
Think I'll have to go and sit on it though to see if it would be a problem
in practice.

Tim

Tim Downie said:

Now that you mention it, it does look like it could inflict a few bruises.
Think I'll have to go and sit on it though to see if it would be a problem
in practice.

And if it turns out it's not the thing for you you can console yourself
with a Good Hard Play on all of Ben's other demo bikes (and trikes, and
the Schlumpf geared unicycle).

Pete.
--
Peter Clinch Medical Physics IT Officer
Tel 44 1382 660111 ext. 33637 Univ. of Dundee, Ninewells Hospital
Fax 44 1382 640177 Dundee DD1 9SY Scotland UK
net [email hidden] http://www.dundee.ac.uk/~pjclinch/

In article said:

Tim Downie said:

Anyone seen/ridden one of these?
http://www.kinetics.org.uk/html/koga_twintraveller.shtml What are they like?

I've seen it, sat in the shop. It's an impressive /looking/ bit of kit,
certainly, though I didn't ride it.

Apparently no-one rode it, and Ben has now sold it on eBay.

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/Koga-Miyata-Twin-Traveller-Folding-Tandem-NEW_W0QQitemZ7244975575QQcategoryZ72574QQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem
"This has been sitting in my window for about 6 months, and hasn't turned
a wheel, so I think it's time it moved on ;-)
[...]
I took it out of the box, assembled it, and put it in the window.
It's never been ridden and still is in perfect condition"

(I'm sure he could get another one in if someone was seriously
interested, and the display one might not be the only one he had
in stock, but there might not be one just to look at.)

On Mon, 5 Jun 2006 23:56:34 +0100, "Tim Downie"
<[email hidden]> said in
<[email hidden]>:

Quoted message said:

Anyone seen/ridden one of these?
http://www.kinetics.org.uk/html/koga_twintraveller.shtml What are they like?

May I draw Sir's attention to the rather excellent Bike Friday Tandem
Two'sday, one of which was recently taken to Serapuvia on our Tradekar
4-bike rack with three full-size bikes TAAW.

Guy
--
May contain traces of irony. Contents liable to settle after posting.
http://www.chapmancentral.co.uk

85% of helmet statistics are made up, 69% of them at CHS, Puget Sound

Just zis Guy said:

On Mon, 5 Jun 2006 23:56:34 +0100, "Tim Downie"
<[email hidden]> said in
<[email hidden]>:

Quoted message said:

Anyone seen/ridden one of these?
http://www.kinetics.org.uk/html/koga_twintraveller.shtml What are
they like?

May I draw Sir's attention to the rather excellent Bike Friday Tandem
Two'sday, one of which was recently taken to Serapuvia on our Tradekar
4-bike rack with three full-size bikes TAAW.

Thanks. That looks very interesting. The traditionalist in me would prefer
bigger wheels but I can see the advantages for portability of smaller ones.
Does look like it might lack somewhat in rigidity though. Anyone got any
experience of riding one or is this a good excuse to visit Bath? ;-)

Tim

On Thu, 8 Jun 2006 11:10:03 +0100, "Tim Downie"
<[email hidden]> said in
<[email hidden]>:

Quoted message said:

Thanks. That looks very interesting. The traditionalist in me would prefer
bigger wheels but I can see the advantages for portability of smaller ones.
Does look like it might lack somewhat in rigidity though. Anyone got any
experience of riding one or is this a good excuse to visit Bath? ;-)

I own one, I have ridden it with self in stoker position and herself
in front, and vice-versa; it was strong enough for that. I've also
ridden it over unmade French roads with my 12-y-o son on the back, and
he's no feather. Of course, a folding bike is unlikely to match a
non-folder for rigidity, but with the right tyres the small wheels are
not an issue.

So yes, worth a trip to Bath, or Reading if that's closer and you can
have a go on mine.

Guy
--
May contain traces of irony. Contents liable to settle after posting.
http://www.chapmancentral.co.uk

85% of helmet statistics are made up, 69% of them at CHS, Puget Sound

Just zis Guy said:

On Thu, 8 Jun 2006 11:10:03 +0100, "Tim Downie"
<[email hidden]> said in
<[email hidden]>:

Quoted message said:

Thanks. That looks very interesting. The traditionalist in me
would prefer bigger wheels but I can see the advantages for
portability of smaller ones. Does look like it might lack somewhat
in rigidity though. Anyone got any experience of riding one or is
this a good excuse to visit Bath? ;-)

I own one, I have ridden it with self in stoker position and herself
in front, and vice-versa; it was strong enough for that. I've also
ridden it over unmade French roads with my 12-y-o son on the back, and
he's no feather. Of course, a folding bike is unlikely to match a
non-folder for rigidity, but with the right tyres the small wheels are
not an issue.

So yes, worth a trip to Bath, or Reading if that's closer and you can
have a go on mine.

Reading, Bath. Not sure there's much in it from Ayr in SW Scotland. ;-)

How far have you ridden it in a day/week? I tend to associate 20" wheels
with "shopper" bikes. Great around town but not really the kind of wheels
I'd want for any sort of distance (normally). Does it come with the "right
tyres"?

Luggage carrying looks like it might be a bit iffy too. Of course I realise
that I can't have everything you'd get on a "proper" non-folding tandem
frame but it would be nice if you could hang enough luggage on it for a long
day out. Can you do that?

Thanks for your time.

TIm

Tim Downie said:

Just zis Guy said:

On Mon, 5 Jun 2006 23:56:34 +0100, "Tim Downie"
<[email hidden]> said in
<[email hidden]>:

Quoted message said:

Anyone seen/ridden one of these?
http://www.kinetics.org.uk/html/koga_twintraveller.shtml What are
they like?

May I draw Sir's attention to the rather excellent Bike Friday Tandem
Two'sday, one of which was recently taken to Serapuvia on our Tradekar
4-bike rack with three full-size bikes TAAW.

Thanks. That looks very interesting. The traditionalist in me would prefer
bigger wheels but I can see the advantages for portability of smaller ones.
Does look like it might lack somewhat in rigidity though. Anyone got any
experience of riding one or is this a good excuse to visit Bath? ;-)

I've ridden one a few times, and it is quite a lot more flexible than our
'normal' tandem.
The wheel size also make the front a lot 'twitchier', which I quite like, but
it takes a bit of getting used to if you are new to smaller wheels. The ride is
harsher too as the small wheels tend to react to rougher road surfaces more.

Unless you are into regularly flying or travelling by train with a tandem, I've
yet to be convinced of its merits.

John B

On Thu, 8 Jun 2006 17:39:18 +0100, "Tim Downie"
<[email hidden]> said in
<[email hidden]>:

Quoted message said:

How far have you ridden it in a day/week? I tend to associate 20" wheels
with "shopper" bikes. Great around town but not really the kind of wheels
I'd want for any sort of distance (normally). Does it come with the "right
tyres"?

I don't know how far we've ridden it in a week. I have ridden some
thousands of miles on small-wheeled bikes, though - the recumbent and
the Brompton, mainly. Ours came with Schwalbe Marathons, which seem
to be the right tyres for us (run well at 80psi+)

Quoted message said:

Luggage carrying looks like it might be a bit iffy too. Of course I realise
that I can't have everything you'd get on a "proper" non-folding tandem
frame but it would be nice if you could hang enough luggage on it for a long
day out. Can you do that?

It has a proper rack so will take a set of panniers, a trunk bag, two
bar bags and four water bottles without modification. Which seems to
be Sufficient as they say in the Rolls-Royce business.

It is, in the end, a Bike Friday. I know Tony has a Bike Friday solo
and I guess he's ridden many miles on that; ours is a family bike for
family rides. What with the complications of my dad being ill, my
sister dying, moving house and so on, we haven't done that many
leisure rides in the last year or so.

Guy
--
May contain traces of irony. Contents liable to settle after posting.
http://www.chapmancentral.co.uk

85% of helmet statistics are made up, 69% of them at CHS, Puget Sound

On Thu, 08 Jun 2006 21:24:31 +0100, John B <[email hidden]> said
in <[email hidden]>:

Quoted message said:

Unless you are into regularly flying or travelling by train with a tandem, I've
yet to be convinced of its merits.

Or if you want to accommodate multiple riders of widely differing
sizes.

Guy
--
May contain traces of irony. Contents liable to settle after posting.
http://www.chapmancentral.co.uk

85% of helmet statistics are made up, 69% of them at CHS, Puget Sound

Just zis Guy said:

On Thu, 08 Jun 2006 21:24:31 +0100, John B <[email hidden]> said
in <[email hidden]>:

Quoted message said:

Unless you are into regularly flying or travelling by train with a tandem, I've
yet to be convinced of its merits.

Or if you want to accommodate multiple riders of widely differing
sizes.

IMO a childback is better as it overcomes the flexing and the harshness of the
small wheels, and with use of kiddiecranks and extended seat posts and stems a
*very* wide size range can be accommodated.

It is difficult to let a 3-year be the pilot though ;-)

John B

John B said:

"Just zis Guy, you know?" wrote:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Or if you want to accommodate multiple riders of widely differing
sizes.

IMO a childback is better as it overcomes the flexing and the harshness of the
small wheels, and with use of kiddiecranks and extended seat posts and stems a
*very* wide size range can be accommodated.

Thobut there are different values of "multiple riders of widely
differing sizes", of which an adult and small child are only one. Also
the case that if you have, say, a 14 year old strapping lad and a 7 year
old wee lassie and want to chop and change between the two, moving
things about wrt kiddiecranks etc. will be a /lot/ more of a faff.

Pete.
--
Peter Clinch Medical Physics IT Officer
Tel 44 1382 660111 ext. 33637 Univ. of Dundee, Ninewells Hospital
Fax 44 1382 640177 Dundee DD1 9SY Scotland UK
net [email hidden] http://www.dundee.ac.uk/~pjclinch/

Peter Clinch wrote:.

Quoted message said:

Thobut there are different values of "multiple riders of widely
differing sizes", of which an adult and small child are only one. Also
the case that if you have, say, a 14 year old strapping lad and a 7 year
old wee lassie and want to chop and change between the two, moving
things about wrt kiddiecranks etc. will be a /lot/ more of a faff.

Fair point.

John B

Peter Clinch said:

John B said:

"Just zis Guy, you know?" wrote:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Or if you want to accommodate multiple riders of widely differing
sizes.

IMO a childback is better as it overcomes the flexing and the harshness of the
small wheels, and with use of kiddiecranks and extended seat posts and stems a
*very* wide size range can be accommodated.

Thobut there are different values of "multiple riders of widely
differing sizes", of which an adult and small child are only one. Also
the case that if you have, say, a 14 year old strapping lad and a 7 year
old wee lassie and want to chop and change between the two, moving
things about wrt kiddiecranks etc. will be a /lot/ more of a faff.

Not really, out kiddyback Dawes Toucan has adjustable crank shorteners
and handlebars. Accomodates both reasonably well. Kiddicranks are
another issue for full sized stoker compartments.

The best solution is the Comotion PeriScope, but these are not cheap. I
think an S&S version makes the Tandem Tuesday redundant.

Of course for us it easier to unhook the Super Galaxy Tandem for the
14yo, and it weighs a LOT less too :-)

regards,
daren

On Fri, 09 Jun 2006 09:13:52 +0100, John B <[email hidden]> said
in <[email hidden]>:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Or if you want to accommodate multiple riders of widely differing
sizes.

Quoted message said:

IMO a childback is better as it overcomes the flexing and the harshness of the
small wheels, and with use of kiddiecranks and extended seat posts and stems a
*very* wide size range can be accommodated.

Maybe, maybe not. Ours will take anyone from Peter (aged 9 and small
for his age) to me (aged 42 and 6ft1) on the stoker seat, and anyone
from Michael (aged 12 and biggish) to me on the captain seat. This is
in addition to fitting on a standard solo bike rack on the back of the
car, the ability to rapidly fold flat if left in the hall at home and
the lack of any requirement for kiddie cranks. To me, that seems like
a good solution. I am a large and fairly powerful rider and do not
notice the flex. With two adults on a hard ride it may well be
noticeable, I haven't pushed it hard yet.

Guy
--
May contain traces of irony. Contents liable to settle after posting.
http://www.chapmancentral.co.uk

85% of helmet statistics are made up, 69% of them at CHS, Puget Sound

All this talk of cool bikes is making me swither over tandems. Now I fancy
a recumbent tandem. Folding would be nice but not essential.

I've tried interesting my wife if the back to back one but she's not
convinced of the merits (yet). Personally, I'd be quite happy on the back
pumping the pedals and enjoying the scenery.

Any suggestions?

Tim