Flip Turns for OpenWater?

In article <[email hidden]>,

Carlton Whitmore said:

Is there any benefit to doing flip turns in the pool if you're training for only open water
events? I just did an 800m time trial yesterday and it was a 1 minute faster w/o doing flip turns.

You might want to do a google groups search on this topic; we beat it to death about 4 months ago.

My short answer: there may be some benefit physically--or may not--but if you're only doing open
water races you probably don't need to do flip turns.

--Harold Buck

"I used to rock and roll all night, and party every day. Then it was every other day. . . ."

- Homer J. Simpson

"Carlton Whitmore" <[email hidden]> wrote in
:"]news:[email hidden]:

Quoted message said:

Is there any benefit to doing flip turns in the pool if you're training for only open water
events? I just did an 800m time trial yesterday and it was a 1 minute faster
w/o doing flip turns. Carlton.

As Harold mentioned, we've had some lively discussions on this topic in the past. As far as race day
is concerned, flip turns are useless unless it's a tri with a pool swim (yuck). For training
purposes however, you'll get a better, more continuous workout on your longer swims if you're doing
a good flip turn. The fact that you're a minute slower doing flip turns tells me that you're still
sharpening your turning skills. A well executed flip tun is always faster than a well executed open
turn. Don't learn flip turns to make yourself a better open water swimmer, learn them to be a better
pool swimmer. This will in turn improve your endurance on long pool swims, which does help in open
water. Then you can devote those rare open water training opportunities to practicing other key
components of OW, such as navigation, dealing with surf, and maybe even swimming in a crowd, if you
can round up enough people.

Tom

I agree with the last reply. When I first started flip turns, I got winded. I realized I was taking
a very short break on the open turns. A 500 with flip turns is a more continuos swim in turns of
endurance training, I believe.

"Tom Henderson" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
"]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

"Carlton Whitmore" <[email hidden]> wrote in
:"]news:[email hidden]:

Quoted message said:

Is there any benefit to doing flip turns in the pool if you're training for only open water
events? I just did an 800m time trial yesterday and it was a 1 minute faster
w/o doing flip turns. Carlton.

As Harold mentioned, we've had some lively discussions on this topic in the past. As far as race
day is concerned, flip turns are useless unless it's a tri with a pool swim (yuck). For training
purposes however, you'll get a better, more continuous workout on your longer swims if you're
doing a good flip turn. The fact that you're a minute slower doing flip turns tells me that you're
still sharpening your turning skills. A well executed flip tun is always faster than a well
executed open turn. Don't learn flip turns to make yourself a better open water swimmer, learn
them to be a better pool swimmer. This will in turn improve your endurance on long pool swims,
which does help in open water. Then you can devote those rare open water training opportunities to
practicing other key components of OW, such as navigation, dealing with surf, and maybe even
swimming in a crowd, if you can round up enough people.

Tom

[email hidden] (David) wrote in
:"]news:[email hidden]:

Quoted message said:

On the thread a while back there was the proposition that only flip turns can make you a good
swimmer - that is complete BS.

Hopefully you're not attributing that to me. My assertion was that flip turns will make you a better
swimmer, which is a completely different statement.

In article <[email hidden]>,

Tom Henderson said:

[email hidden] (David) wrote in :"]news:[email hidden]:

Quoted message said:

On the thread a while back there was the proposition that only flip turns can make you a good
swimmer - that is complete BS.

Hopefully you're not attributing that to me. My assertion was that flip turns will make you a
better swimmer, which is a completely different statement.

I don't think it was you. There was one poster insisting that the ONLY way to become a good swimmer
was to swim with a masters team, and the ONLY way you could do that was to learn flip turns.

--Harold Buck

"I used to rock and roll all night, and party every day. Then it was every other day. . . ."

- Homer J. Simpson

"Tom Henderson" <[email hidden]> wrote in message

Quoted message said:

Hopefully you're not attributing that to me. My assertion was that flip turns will make you a
better swimmer, which is a completely different statement.

I think that awhile back, the analogy that finally sank in was about cycling. That is, you can
become a fast cyclist without doing group rides or learning to ride in a paceline.

However, it is a step many people have taken along the way to getting faster. Flip turns are the
same - - there is no direct connection.

(IMO) You can get there without flip turns, but you may be reinventing the wheel. If you want to
keep company with a lane of masters swimmers, I recommend investing the time and learning to
flip well. If you work out on your own, there is no urgency to it.

rsquared