Flexible orange reflectors/flags

"dave" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Hello. I sometimes see cycles with flexible orange reflectors at the
back which extend out about a foot. Do people think these are a good
idea, and where can you buy them? I did a search on google but
couldn't find anything. Thanks.
david

Many moons ago I used to work in Halfords and we used to sell them then. I
would have thought any good local cycle shop would be able to sell you one.

PJ.
80)

dave said:

Hello. I sometimes see cycles with flexible orange reflectors at the
back which extend out about a foot. Do people think these are a good
idea,

The idea is to emphasise that you shouldn't squeeze past a bike with
barely an inch to spare, which is a nice idea but in practice you'll
probably achieve the same thing more effectively with better road
positioning to start with.

The point of the squeeze-past overtaking is that the car doesn't have to
cross over to the opposite lane in order to pass the bike, and such a
maneuver is generally made possible by the bike being in the gutter to
start with. If you're riding further out the car is forced to overtake
you as if you were another car (which is what should be happening, if
you check in the Highway Code), and if they're doing that anyway there's
no reason not to give you lots of room and IME that's what happens.

So with better positioning they're mainly irrelevant, and thinking that
way I've not researched buying one, so couldn't tell you where...

Pete.
--
Peter Clinch Medical Physics IT Officer
Tel 44 1382 660111 ext. 33637 Univ. of Dundee, Ninewells Hospital
Fax 44 1382 640177 Dundee DD1 9SY Scotland UK
net [email hidden] http://www.dundee.ac.uk/~pjclinch/

just be careful of yobs hanging out of car windows to grab them -
targets to them.. Used to have one many,many years ago. Took it off
after getting it hit a few too many times

Peter Clinch said:

dave said:

Hello. I sometimes see cycles with flexible orange reflectors at the
back which extend out about a foot. Do people think these are a good
idea,

The idea is to emphasise that you shouldn't squeeze past a bike with
barely an inch to spare, which is a nice idea but in practice you'll
probably achieve the same thing more effectively with better road
positioning to start with.

The point of the squeeze-past overtaking is that the car doesn't have to
cross over to the opposite lane in order to pass the bike, and such a
maneuver is generally made possible by the bike being in the gutter to
start with. If you're riding further out the car is forced to overtake
you as if you were another car (which is what should be happening, if
you check in the Highway Code), and if they're doing that anyway there's
no reason not to give you lots of room and IME that's what happens.

So with better positioning they're mainly irrelevant, and thinking that
way I've not researched buying one, so couldn't tell you where...

Pete.

[email hidden] (dave) writed in
news:[email hidden]:

Quoted message said:

Hello. I sometimes see cycles with flexible orange reflectors at the
back which extend out about a foot. Do people think these are a good
idea, and where can you buy them? I did a search on google but
couldn't find anything. Thanks.
david

I used to be a real evangelist for these, and certainly my lad had one on
his bike when he was a young teenager learning to ride.
Recently, for whatever reason, I started to feel less confident when
being passed by fastish traffic on a particular stretch of suburban road
on my way home from work. So I put one on my current bike (They are
available from Wiggle).

I started doing a non-statistically valid count of cars along this
stretch who I felt passed too close, against those who I could see had at
least crossed the central white line - on days with the flag out, and
days with the flag not visible (they fold into the side of the carrier).

The result was (without doing any T-test calculations) that it didn't
make a blind bit of difference! In fact there was a very, very slight
bias towards cars passing too close with the flag out - which is counter-
intuitive, but may indicate that the flag winds the cagers up?

So I suppose the bottom line is that they do give a feeling of security,
but don't *actually* do any good, and may, just make matters slightly
worse. (H*lm*ts anyone?)

Mike - Leicester

Mike Gayler said:

So I suppose the bottom line is that they do give a feeling of security,
but don't *actually* do any good, and may, just make matters slightly
worse.

A bit like "baby on board" stickers in cars.

d.

dave said:

Hello. I sometimes see cycles with flexible orange reflectors at the
back which extend out about a foot. Do people think these are a good
idea, and where can you buy them? I did a search on google but
couldn't find anything. Thanks.

I had to give my girlfriend my bike lock because she broke hers (how? I
don't know. Not with all my strength could I undo what she'd done to it)
so I use the one I bought for my motorbike, which I never used with the
bike (who's going to steal a C1?).

It's a heavy flexible steel rope, covered in rubber, with a heavy lock.
It's on my rack at the back, and for convenience I let it stick out and
wobble menacingly at the traffic. I'm sure it could be adapted to look
even more off-putting.

Daniele
--
Apple Juice Ltd
Chapter Arts Centre
Market Road www.apple-juice.co.uk
Cardiff CF5 1QE 029 2019 0140

In message <[email hidden]>, Mike
Gayler <[email hidden]> writes

Quoted message said:

[email hidden] (dave) writed in
news:[email hidden]:

Quoted message said:

Hello. I sometimes see cycles with flexible orange reflectors at the
back which extend out about a foot. Do people think these are a good
idea, and where can you buy them?

Quoted message said:

Recently, for whatever reason, I started to feel less confident when
being passed by fastish traffic on a particular stretch of suburban road
on my way home from work. So I put one on my current bike (They are
available from Wiggle).

The result was (without doing any T-test calculations) that it didn't
make a blind bit of difference! In fact there was a very, very slight
bias towards cars passing too close with the flag out - which is counter-
intuitive, but may indicate that the flag winds the cagers up?

If it was a real effect I'd suggest it's because drivers see it as an
indicator of how far out they need top go (probably subconciously).

Anyway, I think they are waste of time, they don't actually stick out
hat far anyway compared to say the edge of the handlebars, etc.

anyway Halfords have them
--
Chris French, Leeds

Mike Gayler said:

The result was (without doing any T-test calculations) that it didn't
make a blind bit of difference! In fact there was a very, very slight
bias towards cars passing too close with the flag out - which is counter-
intuitive, but may indicate that the flag winds the cagers up?

Or it may encourage the dimmer sort of motorist to think you are
pefectly safe as long as he misses the sticky out thing. A similar
misconception explains why the MDGs are more, not less, likely to pass
you too closely when you're in a (spit) cycle lane.

--
Dave...

Get a bicycle. You will not regret it. If you live. - Mark Twain

Thanks for all those comments. I wont buy one given what's been said.
But I will try to improve my positioning. I tend to cycle very close
to the pavement, thinking this was the best way to go but it's
obviously not. Maybe this will stop vehicles speeding inches past me.
I do find most drivers are quite good and give ample room when they
pass, but I find black taxi drivers will often overtake very close. I
know I'm often in a bus lane which is shared by black cabs but I don't
have this problem with buses. Thanks again for all the advice. /dave

Mike Gayler said:

The result was (without doing any T-test calculations) that it didn't
make a blind bit of difference! In fact there was a very, very slight
bias towards cars passing too close with the flag out - which is counter-
intuitive, but may indicate that the flag winds the cagers up?

No, it draws the eye, and that tends to pull their attention and vehicle
towards you, warning beacons on vehicles also have a similar effect in
some situations.
When I instructed on motorcycles we taught observation of drain covers,
recongnition of risk there from, then looking to the left or right there
of to the best/safest line to avoid them, looking at them tended to pull
the rider over them.
Tall flags on bents however do help truckers and car drivers spot you!

Niel.

On 10/9/04 8:59 am, in article
[email hidden], "dave"

Quoted message said:

Thanks for all those comments. I wont buy one given what's been said.
But I will try to improve my positioning. I tend to cycle very close
to the pavement, thinking this was the best way to go but it's
obviously not. Maybe this will stop vehicles speeding inches past me.
I do find most drivers are quite good and give ample room when they
pass, but I find black taxi drivers will often overtake very close. I
know I'm often in a bus lane which is shared by black cabs but I don't
have this problem with buses. Thanks again for all the advice. /dave

You need to read the Theory of BIG.

http://www.bikereader.com/BikeReader/contributors/misc/big.html

...d

Quoted message said:

Thanks for all those comments. I wont buy one given what's been said.
But I will try to improve my positioning. I tend to cycle very close
to the pavement, thinking this was the best way to go but it's
obviously not. Maybe this will stop vehicles speeding inches past me.
I do find most drivers are quite good and give ample room when they
pass, but I find black taxi drivers will often overtake very close. I
know I'm often in a bus lane which is shared by black cabs but I don't
have this problem with buses. Thanks again for all the advice. /dave

Cycling you need to be at least a metre out from the kerb. Honest. Drivers can
be thoughtless, incompetent and downright dangerous, but I don't think the vast
majority *intend* to cause a cyclist harm. BUT, if you cycle in the gutter you
are sending out what is in effect a sub-concious message that you don't need
room and drivers *will* think they can overtake you without having to pull out.
If you learn to cycle *assertively* and this means cycling *in traffic* as you
*are* traffic, then you will find that drivers, on the whole, will give you
more room when the overtake. You are entitled to use the road - use it, don't
cycle as if you are cowering in the gutter :-) There's a road in Dereham which
is on the narrow side for a two-lane road. I see cyclists using the double
yellow lines down the side as a cycle lane... this is *nuts*. The effect is
they get cars going by them at relatively high speed and the cyclists end up
wobbling along, in the "cycle lane", over the drain covers and in the broken
glass & stones which inhabit the gutter. This is much, much more dangerous than
cycling out from the gutter so cars *have* to slow for you and wait until it is
safe to overtake.

Cheers, helen s

--This is an invalid email address to avoid spam--
to get correct one remove fame & fortune
h*$el*$$e*nd**$o$ts**i*$*$m*m$o*n*s@$*a$o*l.c**$om$

--Due to financial crisis the light at the end of the tunnel is switched off--

in message <[email hidden]>, chris French

(') said:

In message <[email hidden]>, Mike
Gayler <[email hidden]> writes

Quoted message said:

[email hidden] (dave) writed in
news:[email hidden]:

Quoted message said:

Hello. I sometimes see cycles with flexible orange reflectors at the
back which extend out about a foot. Do people think these are a good
idea, and where can you buy them?

Quoted message said:

Recently, for whatever reason, I started to feel less confident when
being passed by fastish traffic on a particular stretch of suburban
road on my way home from work. So I put one on my current bike (They
are available from Wiggle).

The result was (without doing any T-test calculations) that it didn't
make a blind bit of difference! In fact there was a very, very slight
bias towards cars passing too close with the flag out - which is
counter- intuitive, but may indicate that the flag winds the cagers
up?

If it was a real effect I'd suggest it's because drivers see it as an
indicator of how far out they need top go (probably subconciously).

Anyway, I think they are waste of time, they don't actually stick out
hat far anyway compared to say the edge of the handlebars, etc.

There are also telescopic things with LED lights on which fit into the
end of straight handlebars. The stalk part is flexible, so they
shouldn't snap off too easily. There was a very positive review of them
in Velovision recently.

--
[email hidden] (Simon Brooke) http://www.jasmine.org.uk/~simon/

;; Friends don't send friends HTML formatted emails.

dave said:

Thanks for all those comments. I wont buy one given what's been said.
But I will try to improve my positioning. I tend to cycle very close
to the pavement, thinking this was the best way to go but it's
obviously not.

Get a copy of "Cyclecraft" by John Franklin, Publisher: The Stationery
Office Books; ISBN: 0117020516.

It's all about how to maximise your safety cycling on roads amongst
traffic, and is /very/ well worth getting. Rather more so than
reflective poles!

Pete.
--
Peter Clinch Medical Physics IT Officer
Tel 44 1382 660111 ext. 33637 Univ. of Dundee, Ninewells Hospital
Fax 44 1382 640177 Dundee DD1 9SY Scotland UK
net [email hidden] http://www.dundee.ac.uk/~pjclinch/