FLATTEST im

(Old Timer) said:

Should have added.... DEFINITELY flatter than IMFLA. Been to both. There's actually a decent uphill
at IMFLA, not steep, but long. Might not really be a decent hill, but I was expecting totally flat,
and was surprised. I can't remember the name of the road, but at the top you make a right onto a
busy highway.

Hwy. 20 onto 231 maybe. Right at the spec. needs area?

John Hardt <[email hidden]> wrote in :"]news:[email hidden]:

Quoted message said:

Harold Buck said:

In article said:

Want to argue with that? OK, on a more literal note, any loop course which begins and ends at
the same location has, by definition, zero elevation gain.

I always thought the definition of "elevation gain" was total UPHILL distance, as opposed to net
change in elevation, which is zero if you start and end in the same place.

--Harold Buck

Elevation: The height of a thing above a reference level; altitude.

Gain: a. To manage to achieve an increase of.
b. To increase by (a specific amount).

So, if you start and end at the same point you have "managed to achieve an increase in altitude"
of exactly zero. What you describe (total UPHILL distance) would best be described as "total
vertical climb".

;-)

Seriously, in triathlon circles you are, of course, right Harold. In my world (where I'm a smart
ass and my fiancée writes for a living) I pick on such things. After your comment about an uphill
swim at IM Wisc (which I got, by the way) I hoped you might see through my sarcasm.

John

OK, so explain the uphill swim to me. Did you start in the water and end at the top of a seawall?

In article said:

Harold, according to the link it is near Perth in Western Australia

Yeah, that's why I did a :-) face. It was a joke ("Ignorant American thinks Australia = Sydney" and
all that).

--Harold Buck

"I used to rock and roll all night, and party every day. Then it was every other day. . . ."

- Homer J. Simpson

MJuric said:

Andrew Halperin said:

I've used TOPO USA quite a bit. Not exactly the most accurate DEM's (digital elevation model) but
pretty darn close. If you get the topo quads, you'll get even better accuracy.

If you're looking for a specific course, let me know. I may (big maybe) have it done already.

-Andrew

I'm actually looking for something I can route the regular courses we do for our tri club
and post them online so people know what to expect. I looked at the TOPO USA stuff but if
memory serves it was around 1200$. A little out of my range for a nicety to put on our web
site.

~Matt

Ok maybe I was on Crack the last time I looked. Is this what you use?

delorme.comtopousaOpen ↗

If so I could probably handle 99$

~Matt

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

MJuric said:

On Tue, 02 Dec 2003 13:26:43 -0700, Andrew Halperin <[email hidden]> wrote:

>While I have to agree (done it a few times) that IMFL is one of the flatter courses out there,
>it's not completely flat. After all is said and done I bet you do close to 700-900' of climbing.
>I'm going to map this out sometime on topo or use a local gis system to find out for sure.

Speaking of TOPO, any suggestions on decent, cheap software for mapping eleveations etc?

~Matt

<Snip>

>-Andrew
>

--
Andrew F. Halperin - boulder, co

Umm. Don't think so. Website (www.delorme.com) says $99.95. And I'm sure you can get it cheaper than
that through a discounter. I use it all the time for routes all over the country.

-Andrew

MJuric said:

Andrew Halperin said:

I've used TOPO USA quite a bit. Not exactly the most accurate DEM's (digital elevation model) but
pretty darn close. If you get the topo quads, you'll get even better accuracy.

If you're looking for a specific course, let me know. I may (big maybe) have it done already.

-Andrew

I'm actually looking for something I can route the regular courses we do for our tri club
and post them online so people know what to expect. I looked at the TOPO USA stuff but if
memory serves it was around 1200$. A little out of my range for a nicety to put on our web
site.

~Matt

In article said:

I can assure you this was not a miss print.

It's a new Ironman for qualifying in the western side of Australia. The other Ironman in Australia
is on the Eastern side of Australia about 4hours north of Sydney and 7hrs south of Brisbane.

From Sydney, it is a 5hr flight plus 2hrs Drive to the Western Australia Race. It also costs a
bomb to fly there.

It is actually cheaper to fly to New Zealand and do their race than do the Western Australia Race.

Mind you the Eastern Australia race required athlete's to Qualify to partake. Average 1/2 Ironman
Qualifying time is 5hours. The Western Australia Even does not require qualifying. Neither does
New Zealand.

Most (Slow) Aussies do IM New Zealand.

Pete

Quoted message said:

(pete) said:

I can almost assure you that the New Ironman Western Australia will be a Super fast bike
course.

That has to be a misprint. Sydney is in *eastern* Australia; western Australia is largely
uninhabited, right?

:-)

--Harold Buck

Do you know what :-) means?

--Harold Buck

"I used to rock and roll all night, and party every day. Then it was every other day. . . ."

- Homer J. Simpson

In article <[email hidden]>, Tom Henderson

Quoted message said:

OK, so explain the uphill swim to me. Did you start in the water and end at the top of a seawall?

Yeah, basically. We started in the water, but we had to climb up out of the water and run a few
steps up a ramp before the timing mat.

This reminds me about how they had the "Degree of Difficulty" on the bike and run course (the
toughest section of the course, sponsored by Degree antiperspirant). I noticed immediately that they
didn't have it labeled on the swim course, and I also thought they they *should* have labeled it,
right at the first turn buoy. That's always a mess in a small race, let alone when 1800 people start
at the same time.

--Harold Buck

"I used to rock and roll all night, and party every day. Then it was every other day. . . ."

- Homer J. Simpson

Guess I should read all the articles first ;-) Yes, that's what I use.

-Andrew

MJuric said:

MJuric said:

Andrew Halperin said:

I've used TOPO USA quite a bit. Not exactly the most accurate DEM's (digital elevation model) but
pretty darn close. If you get the topo quads, you'll get even better accuracy.

If you're looking for a specific course, let me know. I may (big maybe) have it done already.

-Andrew

I'm actually looking for something I can route the regular courses we do for our tri club
and post them online so people know what to expect. I looked at the TOPO USA stuff but if
memory serves it was around 1200$. A little out of my range for a nicety to put on our web
site.

~Matt

Ok maybe I was on Crack the last time I looked. Is this what you use?

delorme.comtopousaOpen ↗

If so I could probably handle 99$

~Matt

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

MJuric wrote:

>On Tue, 02 Dec 2003 13:26:43 -0700, Andrew Halperin <[email hidden]> wrote:
>
>
>
>>While I have to agree (done it a few times) that IMFL is one of the flatter courses out there,
>>it's not completely flat. After all is said and done I bet you do close to 700-900' of
>>climbing. I'm going to map this out sometime on topo or use a local gis system to find out for
>>sure.
>
>
>Speaking of TOPO, any suggestions on decent, cheap software for mapping eleveations etc?
>
>~Matt
>
><Snip>
>
>>-Andrew
>>
>
>
--
Andrew F. Halperin - boulder, co

--
Andrew F. Halperin - boulder, co

Andrew Halperin ahalper said:

Guess I should read all the articles first ;-) Yes, that's what I use.

-Andrew

I didn't see anything in there about giving Tyrn by turn info. Does it have something like
that? Up till now I've been using MS streets and maps, does a nice little map and TBT
directions to follow.

~Matt

Quoted message said:

MJuric said:

MJuric said:

On Wed, 03 Dec 2003 12:53:01 -0700, Andrew Halperin <[email hidden]> wrote:

>I've used TOPO USA quite a bit. Not exactly the most accurate DEM's (digital elevation model)
>but pretty darn close. If you get the topo quads, you'll get even better accuracy.
>
>If you're looking for a specific course, let me know. I may (big maybe) have it done already.
>
>-Andrew

I'm actually looking for something I can route the regular courses we do for our tri club
and post them online so people know what to expect. I looked at the TOPO USA stuff but if
memory serves it was around 1200$. A little out of my range for a nicety to put on our web
site.

~Matt

Ok maybe I was on Crack the last time I looked. Is this what you use?

delorme.comtopousaOpen ↗

If so I could probably handle 99$

~Matt

Quoted message said:

>MJuric wrote:
>
>>On Tue, 02 Dec 2003 13:26:43 -0700, Andrew Halperin <[email hidden]> wrote:
>>
>>
>>
>>>While I have to agree (done it a few times) that IMFL is one of the flatter courses out there,
>>>it's not completely flat. After all is said and done I bet you do close to 700-900' of
>>>climbing. I'm going to map this out sometime on topo or use a local gis system to find out for
>>>sure.
>>
>>
>>Speaking of TOPO, any suggestions on decent, cheap software for mapping eleveations etc?
>>
>>~Matt
>>
>><Snip>
>>
>>>-Andrew
>>>
>>
>>
>--
>Andrew F. Halperin - boulder, co
>

--
Andrew F. Halperin - boulder, co

Matt,

If you want to continue this discussion (which has moved quite a bit aways from triathlon) please
contact me backchannel.

a halper at sanfrancisco dot com (drop the sanfran)

-Andrew

MJuric said:

Andrew Halperin ahalper said:

Guess I should read all the articles first ;-) Yes, that's what I use.

-Andrew

I didn't see anything in there about giving Tyrn by turn info. Does it have something like
that? Up till now I've been using MS streets and maps, does a nice little map and TBT
directions to follow.

~Matt

Quoted message said:

MJuric wrote:

--
Andrew F. Halperin - boulder, co

In article said:

Elevation: The height of a thing above a reference level; altitude.

Gain: a. To manage to achieve an increase of.
b. To increase by (a specific amount).

So, if you start and end at the same point you have "managed to achieve an increase in altitude"
of exactly zero. What you describe (total UPHILL distance) would best be described as "total
vertical climb".

;-)

Somewhere there's a great example about how when you put two words together the combination doesn't
mean the same as you'd think from combining the two definitions, but I can't think what it is.

Quoted message said:

Seriously, in triathlon circles you are, of course, right Harold. In my world (where I'm a smart
ass and my fiancée writes for a living) I pick on such things.

Yeah, me too. Well, my wife doesn't write, she's an actuary, but otherwise same here.

Quoted message said:

After your comment about an uphill swim at IM Wisc (which I
got, by the way) I hoped you might see through my sarcasm.

Well, I guess I wasn't sure.

--Harold Buck

"I used to rock and roll all night, and party every day. Then it was every other day. . . ."

- Homer J. Simpson

Harold Buck said:

In article said:

Elevation: The height of a thing above a reference level; altitude.

Gain: a. To manage to achieve an increase of.
b. To increase by (a specific amount).

So, if you start and end at the same point you have "managed to achieve an increase in altitude"
of exactly zero. What you describe (total UPHILL distance) would best be described as "total
vertical climb".

;-)

Somewhere there's a great example about how when you put two words together the combination
doesn't mean the same as you'd think from combining the two definitions, but I can't think
what it is.

You're not referring to the comedian Galleger are you?

"If pro is the opposite of con then isn't progress the opposite of congress?"

"Why do we park in a driveway and drive on a parkway?"

OK, I've done enough damage here. I think this tread has moved WAY beyond the subject header.

John