Fixed Gear ?

Power meter?

ooohhh... yeah. that's what i need. a $1500 gizmo that lets me know when i'm working hard or not working hard enough.

from my experience, power meters and heart rate monitors are for number obsessed techies that need a new toy to keep them motivated.*

every cat1/2 i ride with doesnt have one. they know when they are working hard. they know when to rest. they know what workouts and intenisites they need to peak, taper, or rest. hell, one guy doesnt even have a speedo- but can pull the line at any speed within +/- .3mph

its called listening to your body and not watching a number on a screen.

allright... back to the topic at hand....

Solarpower.... have you ever riden a fixie? do you know what your talking about? or are you just basing this off the ONE guy you saw go down because he grounded a pedal... which you admit- may be more to atributed more to his riding ability than the type of bike he was on.

and, now for the disclaimer (*)
heart rate monitors are good for weight loss. helping to keep one in an aerobic/ fat burning zone than an anerobic/ muscle building zone.

but how many countless people have bought them for training- wore them religiously for the first month... realized they have a more intuitive feel for what the're doing than any number on a watch could tell them...

and left the damn thing in the box it came it.

or- how many people feel the HRM actually inhibited their workout? the number was screaming STOP, but they felt good and could've kept going?

anyway- this is about fixie training and NOT digital doohickies

but my $.02

schmuzzy said:

from my experience, power meters and heart rate monitors are for number obsessed techies that need a new toy to keep them motivated.

You now see why I think this fix gear debate is useless.

There are other debates, or other learnings that you guys have to go through before being able to properly measure the impact of your training choices.

coasters are for wussies!

Jenkins said:

coasters are for wussies!

You know what is worst in this statement Jenkins? It is totally wrong. And in fact, it's the opposite.

In a road race situation, coasting as often as one can is part of a winning strategy.

But I guess that would be hard to prove, as no one is stupid enough to expect winning a road race on fix gear bike.

Unless maybe... would you?

I will preface this by saying I do not own a power meter. I do have a HRM which I use 0-3 times a week, depending.

schmuzzy said:

from my experience, power meters and heart rate monitors are for number obsessed techies that need a new toy to keep them motivated.

A bike is a toy that keeps us all motivated.

schmuzzy said:

every cat1/2 i ride with doesnt have one.

Maybe so, but the surge in high-perfoamance biking is assuredly in power. Many coaches use it now, and a lot of the guys on the podium are using power. There is some opinion that the power nerds will slowly start to take over a lot more of the podium spots in years to come. I'm not sure I agree.

schmuzzy said:

its called listening to your body and not watching a number on a screen.

RPE - it's been show to be incredibly accurate, yes.

schmuzzy said:

heart rate monitors are good for weight loss. helping to keep one in an aerobic/ fat burning zone than an anerobic/ muscle building zone.

Agree, but I also think the HRM allows people to learn more about RPE. I personally use the HRM for certain kinds of intervals, to keep me in a specific HR area. I don't take them on long rides nor on short intervals. I don't always take them on medium/long intervals because I know how I want to feel. But it can be a pretty useful tool for regulation.

schmuzzy said:

but how many countless people have bought them for training- wore them religiously for the first month... realized they have a more intuitive feel for what the're doing than any number on a watch could tell them...and left the damn thing in the box it came it.

Probably a lot. The same can be said about gym memberships and all sorts of other products. Nobody is going to the most out of everything they buy. A lot of people expect a holy grail with a purchase. The reality is that a lot of people like to buy things, regardless of the product. It doesn't make the product useless.

schmuzzy said:

anyway- this is about fixie training and NOT digital doohickies

Eh, every thread turns into a p!ssing match eventually, given enough time.

SolarEnergy said:

You now see why I think this fix gear debate is useless.

There are other debates, or other learnings that you guys have to go through before being able to properly measure the impact of your training choices.

you still havnt answered the question...

have you ever even been on a fixie for any length of time?

schmuzzy said:

you still havnt answered the question...

have you ever even been on a fixie for any length of time?

Of course, the way you pose this question, I'm certain that your opinions on power meters are based on your personal experience, right? I mean, there's no way you would imply that SolarEnergy's views on fixies are wrong because of his lack of significant experience and then not apply the same standard to your views on power meters. Because that would be a double standard.

SolarEnergy said:

You know what is worst in this statement Jenkins? It is totally wrong. And in fact, it's the opposite.

In a road race situation, coasting as often as one can is part of a winning strategy.

But I guess that would be hard to prove, as no one is stupid enough to expect winning a road race on fix gear bike.

Unless maybe... would you?

i stand by the fact that riding the same route, with the same hills and same hills, you will use more energy and get in better shape than if you did it on a 10 speed. im a 21 year old ex bike messenger, i know that makes me biased, but it also means im poor. i have no doo-hickeys or whatever to gauge this, but im just going on my own personal experiences with it.

being in one gear gives you no option but to power through and handle it. and yes, i would compete on a fixie, and yes, i have done very well in multiple road races while riding a fixie. oh no a hill, everyone drops down to sprinting in place gearing, while i carry my momentum correctly into a hill and gear my stroke for as much efficiency as i can.

where i do find you right is this... anybody who rides a fixie, would ride faster and easier on a geared bike. what im trying to debate to you here, is that your average racer riding the same mileage on the same terrain every day, will make much more improvements once he gets on that bike.

for example. 10 miles on a fixie in hilly terrain every day, versus 10 miles on a geared.

once you goto race, if you hop on that geared with all of that fixie practice, you will be climbinb hills in higher gears, keeping higher cadence on downhills, and producing better times. sadly though, you will be on a freewheel and not having as much fun.

im not slinging dirt, to me and how i ride fixie is a way of life. its zen, its different, it flows. it got me to stop worrying about electonics and heart rates and fat percentages, and back into riding my bike for fun like when i was a little kid.

ride what you want to ride, bike for fun.

schmuzzy said:

you still havnt answered the question...

have you ever even been on a fixie for any length of time?

You'll have to give me the option to ignore questions that are irrelevant.

i take that as a "no".

ignore irrelevant questions? i think the question is most certainly relevant.

if you've NEVER been on one- how can you flame on it?

this topic is on the use of a fixie for training purposes. if you've never been on one-- how can you be such opinionated genius on the topic?

and as for my experience with power meters...

well, first off- this topic is not on power meters. and no, i do not own one. i did "live with one" for about a 6 weeks. borrowed a friends (the rear hub type)while he was out of the country for a stint.

thought it was neat, but not worth the $1500

now, if you spent 6 weeks on a fixie-- i think i'd respect your criticism a bit more.

Jenkins said:

i stand by the fact that riding the same route, with the same hills and same hills, you will use more energy and get in better shape than if you did it on a 10 speed. im a 21 year old ex bike messenger, i know that makes me biased, but it also means im poor. i have no doo-hickeys or whatever to gauge this, but im just going on my own personal experiences with it.

I have some experience arguing with riders (having worked as a coach in a University for 8 years). I know it's a healthy process during which you learn, even though at first glance you seem like arguing.

In fact, that's partly how I learn too. So I am cool with our discussion Jenkins.

Now, learn that coasting isn't for wussies. Why? Because of this :

Jenkins said:

i stand by the fact that riding the same route, with the same hills and same hills, you will use more energy **

(** Implicit : while riding a fix gear bike)

Winning a road race (not talking about distributing some mail here) involves saving energy, not wasting it. So you should coast whenever you can in order to attack, or sprint, or break away with few other riders when it really counts.

And you also need to learn that the only difference between you riding your fix gear, and me riding my free wheeler on my interval course (a Formula1 race track), is that you can optionnally ride backward, and you can generate negative torque. I admit that I can't do that.

Yesterday I did a 60m interval on this track. It's late in the season so there were no pedestrians. Therefore I coasted only once because in the 180deg turn, I though I saw some rocks on the pavement and wanted to focuss on avoiding them.

Other than that, coasting means loss of avg power and that is very bad.

I don't coast, and more important, I know my power is constant. I know it while I ride, and I know it when I get back home and download the ride. I know that yesterday's power was kept constant rarely under 240w.

When you ride your fix gear, you have know idea of what your power is, and if it's kept constant or not.

Jenkins said:

i stand by the fact that riding the same route, with the same hills and same hills, you will use more energy and get in better shape than if you did it on a 10 speed. im a 21 year old ex bike messenger, i know that makes me biased, but it also means im poor. i have no doo-hickeys or whatever to gauge this, but im just going on my own personal experiences with it.

being in one gear gives you no option but to power through and handle it. and yes, i would compete on a fixie, and yes, i have done very well in multiple road races while riding a fixie. oh no a hill, everyone drops down to sprinting in place gearing, while i carry my momentum correctly into a hill and gear my stroke for as much efficiency as i can.

where i do find you right is this... anybody who rides a fixie, would ride faster and easier on a geared bike. what im trying to debate to you here, is that your average racer riding the same mileage on the same terrain every day, will make much more improvements once he gets on that bike.

for example. 10 miles on a fixie in hilly terrain every day, versus 10 miles on a geared.

once you goto race, if you hop on that geared with all of that fixie practice, you will be climbinb hills in higher gears, keeping higher cadence on downhills, and producing better times. sadly though, you will be on a freewheel and not having as much fun.

im not slinging dirt, to me and how i ride fixie is a way of life. its zen, its different, it flows. it got me to stop worrying about electonics and heart rates and fat percentages, and back into riding my bike for fun like when i was a little kid.

ride what you want to ride, bike for fun.

I ride a fixed gear and a road bike and both have powermeters.....there is no substatinal difference in measured power output or calories expended between those 2 bikes given the same ride. It is also a mistake to think that becasue you are riding a fixed gear that you are consistently putting power to the pedals. The powermeter on the fixed gear put this myth to rest for me. There are plenty of times where the powermeter shows that there is little to no power being applied even when your legs are spinning around on a fixed gear. That said I do love to train on the Pista when the roads are rolling or are flat, and I do think that riding the fixed gear will help to make me stronger but that is due to the effects of training and is not dependant on which bike I ride. Ummm, er, a, it's not really about the bike.

schmuzzy said:

i did "live with one" for about a 6 weeks.

Very nice!

schmuzzy said:

thought it was neat, but not worth the $1500

That's generally what my uneducated opinion is right now. I'm not consistently coming in 4th saying, "Boy I'll do anything to take the step up." So if I found one laying in the street, you can be sure I'd nab it. But for my interests it's a bit cost prohibitive.

Anyway - what's the cheapest way to getmyself on a fixed gear, without stealing?

greenrhino said:

There are plenty of times where the powermeter shows that there is little to no power being applied even when your legs are spinning around on a fixed gear.

Out of curiosity.

Can the powermeter shows negative power being applied when it's the case, or does it just shows zero? Or does it translate a negative value into an absolute value? (of course by negative power, I mean the process of slowing the bike down without using any brakes).

SolarEnergy said:

Out of curiosity.

Can the powermeter shows negative power being applied when it's the case, or does it just shows zero? Or does it translate a negative value into an absolute value? (of course by negative power, I mean the process of slowing the bike down without using any brakes).

still havnt heard if you've ever been on a fixie....🙄

schmuzzy said:

still havnt heard if you've ever been on a fixie....🙄

As I already told Jenkins. I am aware that you guys learn by arguing. I find it's a healthy process. I am cool with that.

But you have already missed two nice occasions of learning from the testimony of riders that you would find more credible than me :

1th by RapDaddyo http://www.cyclingforums.com/showpost.php?p=2992448&postcount=13

2nd by Greenrhino http://www.cyclingforums.com/showpost.php?p=2993848&postcount=32

Please schmuzzy, do your homeworks !!

ohhh..... stop the condescension you old twink.

and stop dodging the question.

SolarEnergy said:

Out of curiosity.

Can the powermeter shows negative power being applied when it's the case, or does it just shows zero? Or does it translate a negative value into an absolute value? (of course by negative power, I mean the process of slowing the bike down without using any brakes).

I have an original ergomo in a bianchi pista and i just looked at a file and it does not record negative torque values. Seems to put them all at zero.

greenrhino said:

I have an original ergomo in a bianchi pista and i just looked at a file and it does not record negative torque values. Seems to put them all at zero.

Thanks.

Anyway it's probably better this way. After all, from the perspective of traveling forward, slowing down the bike by applying pressure on the upward stroke (as opposed to on the downward stroke) could be seen as negative torque.

But from a more global perspective, you're still applying some torque.

normZurawski said:

Eh, every thread turns into a p!ssing match eventually, given enough time.

Sorry Norm, this is one statement I totally disagree with. This doesn't have to be the case. In my "It's killing me" thread, after 39,000 views there have been differences of opinion, but I'm pleased to say no flaming. It is possible to conduct constructive arguments without it becoming personal.
Now where did I put my unicycle? Now there's a bike that really improves your balance and handling - not sure a power meter would be much good on it though!😄