fix for lower back pain doing pushups?

Monique Y. Mudama said:

Granted, my upper body isn't all that, but when I try to do pushups,
what gives out first is my lower back. The lower my pushup goes, the
more I feel it in my lower back. I can still feel it, but much less so,
if I do the pushups with my knees as the fulcrum instead of my feet.
Doing all of this, I make very sure I'm not sticking my butt in the air.

I don't think this is an injury-type pain; it's probably a "my torso
is as weak as pudding" kind of thing. My abs, I know, are
particularly weak.

Sooo ... is this a problem with my pushup technique, or is this
something I can fix by supplementing my workout with other exercises?
I have been told to try tightening my abs when I do the pushup, but as
I mentioned, my abs are pudding and it doesn't seem to help much.
(Yup, I'm working on my abs, slowly but surely.) I'm wondering if my
back is weak or if my abs are so weak that my back is doing extra
work. I suspect the latter.

I don't know if it matters for this particular question, but I do
pushups on my knuckles, not my palms. It feels better on my wrists.

Anyway, any thoughts or suggestions are appreciated.

Many women find body-weight exercises difficult, particularly
pull-ups, dips and press-ups. Doing them on your knuckles make them
even more difficult.

Your back pain is probably due to the fact that all your core muscles
are not very strong. When you go into the 'front support position' to
do press-ups, the core muscles are committed to 'Isometric
Contractions" in order to attempt to hold the body straight. If you
aren't straight from head to foot, your body is either sagging
mid-back or your rear end (butt) is raised, which will cause back
strain.

Try putting your palms flat on the floor about shoulder width apart
with the hands turned slightly inward. Start in the kneeling position
and do a few kneeling press-ups (push-ups) see:
http://www.netfit.co.uk/press_up%20_circuits.html

When you can do 10 of these comfortably, try a couple in the full
press-up position, but make sure you use good form. Don't be in too
much of a hurry to do too many.

You can improve your core muscles on the Swiss (Exercise) Ball with a
variety of exercises, including crunches, reverse crunches, back
extensions and reverse back extensions et al.

Monique Y. Mudama said:

Granted, my upper body isn't all that, but when I try to do pushups,
what gives out first is my lower back. The lower my pushup goes, the
more I feel it in my lower back. I can still feel it, but much less
so, if I do the pushups with my knees as the fulcrum instead of my
feet. Doing all of this, I make very sure I'm not sticking my butt in
the air.

I don't think this is an injury-type pain; it's probably a "my torso
is as weak as pudding" kind of thing. My abs, I know, are
particularly weak.

Sooo ... is this a problem with my pushup technique, or is this
something I can fix by supplementing my workout with other exercises?
I have been told to try tightening my abs when I do the pushup, but as
I mentioned, my abs are pudding and it doesn't seem to help much.
(Yup, I'm working on my abs, slowly but surely.) I'm wondering if my
back is weak or if my abs are so weak that my back is doing extra
work. I suspect the latter.

I don't know if it matters for this particular question, but I do
pushups on my knuckles, not my palms. It feels better on my wrists.

Anyway, any thoughts or suggestions are appreciated.

Like John, I'd say your core is weak. Try doing "hovers" for a minute at a
time. Simply get in pushup form with your body out straight, but rest on
your elbows. Just hold it for a minute if you can. If not, work up to it.
--
-Larry

"Monique Y. Mudama" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Granted, my upper body isn't all that, but when I try to do pushups,
what gives out first is my lower back. The lower my pushup goes, the
more I feel it in my lower back. I can still feel it, but much less
so,
if I do the pushups with my knees as the fulcrum instead of my feet.
Doing all of this, I make very sure I'm not sticking my butt in the
air.

I don't think this is an injury-type pain; it's probably a "my torso
is as weak as pudding" kind of thing. My abs, I know, are
particularly weak.

Sooo ... is this a problem with my pushup technique, or is this
something I can fix by supplementing my workout with other exercises?
I have been told to try tightening my abs when I do the pushup, but as
I mentioned, my abs are pudding and it doesn't seem to help much.
(Yup, I'm working on my abs, slowly but surely.) I'm wondering if my
back is weak or if my abs are so weak that my back is doing extra
work. I suspect the latter.

I don't know if it matters for this particular question, but I do
pushups on my knuckles, not my palms. It feels better on my wrists.

Anyway, any thoughts or suggestions are appreciated.

There are things you can do - here are a few specific suggestions.

You want to focus on using your butt and even the backs of your legs to
pull your hips down in the back as well as using your abs to pull you
hips up from the front. It's not just your abs you need to use, it's
everything connected to your hips that will stabilize them in the way
you need. Doing wheel rollouts will teach you the proper pelvis
alignment. Do them kneeling, and get yourself a copy of Pavel's
"Bullet-Proof Abs" http://www.kbnj.com/bpa.htm or ask and I'll be glad
to give you some pointers here. The book is chock full of other
off-beat but very effective ab exercises.

If you want to see the standing version of the ab wheel rollouts, I've
got a video of me here: http://www.kbnj.com/Inverted_Wheel.rm

Find a way to change the angle of your body - maybe a hill outside,
maybe putting your hands up on a step, maybe even half a plywood ramp
you can lay one end up on. This will make your pushups a little easier,
and we all know there are a lot of benefits to be had from progressive
resistance training, so try doing more reps when they're easier and only
a few reps on the floor for a while and see if you can increase your
midsection strength that way.

Try pausing just above the floor on some of your pushups and focusing on
body alignment and staying tight in your midsection. This will lower
the number of reps you can do but it should increase your strength and
that will eventually translate into more reps when you don't pause just
above the floor.

Hope those suggestions are of some help to you. (And doing them on your
knuckles is fine - a long-standing martials arts tradition.)

-S-
http://www.kbnj.com

Quoted message said:

--
monique

On 2005-05-24, Larry Hodges penned:

Quoted message said:

Like John, I'd say your core is weak. Try doing "hovers" for a
minute at a time. Simply get in pushup form with your body out
straight, but rest on your elbows. Just hold it for a minute if you
can. If not, work up to it.

This makes so much sense that I'm embarrassed I haven't been doing it
already. Why elbows, though, instead of fists?

(Sorry for the late reply; things have gotten hectic around here)

--
monique

On 2005-05-24, Charles penned:

Quoted message said:

Many women find body-weight exercises difficult, particularly
pull-ups, dips and press-ups. Doing them on your knuckles make them
even more difficult.

I sure do! My great goal in life is to be able to one (1) pull-up.
I've never yet been able to do so. That will, I'm sure, require the
loss of some non-useful mass.

Aside from the greater depth, how do you find knuckle pushups more
difficult? Palm pushups hurt my wrists; this is even more of a
problem since I injured my wrist last year. The variation in which
the index fingers and thumbs form a diamond is easier on my wrist, but
works a different set of muscles.

Quoted message said:

Your back pain is probably due to the fact that all your core
muscles are not very strong. When you go into the 'front support
position' to do press-ups, the core muscles are committed to
'Isometric Contractions" in order to attempt to hold the body
straight. If you aren't straight from head to foot, your body is
either sagging mid-back or your rear end (butt) is raised, which
will cause back strain.

I feel like I've been extremely conscientious in keeping my body
straight. I'll have someone look at my form, though.

Quoted message said:

Try putting your palms flat on the floor about shoulder width apart
with the hands turned slightly inward. Start in the kneeling
position and do a few kneeling press-ups (push-ups) see:
http://www.netfit.co.uk/press_up%20_circuits.html

I've never heard the term press-up before; is that the more proper
term?

I typically do a mixture of kneeling and standard pushups, depending on
how much my back will take. The kneeling ones put less strain on my
back, but doing them doesn't seem to improve my back for the standard
ones. In fact, when I think back, I've always had this problem, even
when I spent all of my free time in the dojang as a teen. We were doing
pushups all over the place, but I always felt bad doing them.

Quoted message said:

You can improve your core muscles on the Swiss (Exercise) Ball with
a variety of exercises, including crunches, reverse crunches, back
extensions and reverse back extensions et al.

I've been taking classes that incorporate about 7 minutes, twice a
week, of ab exercises; typically a minute each of various exercises.
Is twice a week to exhaustion (I can't even twitch after these sets)
enough for improvement?

--
monique

On 2005-05-25, Steve Freides penned:

Quoted message said:

There are things you can do - here are a few specific suggestions.

You want to focus on using your butt and even the backs of your legs
to pull your hips down in the back as well as using your abs to pull
you hips up from the front. It's not just your abs you need to use,
it's everything connected to your hips that will stabilize them in
the way you need. Doing wheel rollouts will teach you the proper
pelvis alignment. Do them kneeling, and get yourself a copy of
Pavel's "Bullet-Proof Abs" http://www.kbnj.com/bpa.htm or ask and
I'll be glad to give you some pointers here. The book is chock full
of other off-beat but very effective ab exercises.

I'm currently between jobs, so I can't spring for it right now. I'd
be happy to learn some new workouts, though to be honest, I know lots
of ab workouts. I just hate them *so much* that I need an instructor
or peer pressure to force me to do them. I attend classes about twice
a week in which we do several minutes of very difficult ab workouts.
I've seen a huge improvement in my ability to complete these workouts
since I started the classes, but I know my core is still weak.

Quoted message said:

If you want to see the standing version of the ab wheel rollouts,
I've got a video of me here: http://www.kbnj.com/Inverted_Wheel.rm

Unfortunately, I'm not the biggest fan of RM, but I have found some
examples on the web. I've never tried anything like that, so I'll
have to check it out.

Quoted message said:

Find a way to change the angle of your body - maybe a hill outside,
maybe putting your hands up on a step, maybe even half a plywood
ramp you can lay one end up on. This will make your pushups a
little easier, and we all know there are a lot of benefits to be had
from progressive resistance training, so try doing more reps when
they're easier and only a few reps on the floor for a while and see
if you can increase your midsection strength that way.

I've been mostly doing pushups at the class I mentioned; for home
workouts, though, yes, I should set something like this up.

Quoted message said:

Try pausing just above the floor on some of your pushups and
focusing on body alignment and staying tight in your midsection.

As soon as I get to the point that I can even *get* to "just above the
floor," I will be happy to try this! =P

Quoted message said:

This will lower the number of reps you can do but it should increase
your strength and that will eventually translate into more reps when
you don't pause just above the floor.

Makes perfect sense. I'm ultimately interested in strength via
pushups, not really pushups for their own sake, so I wouldn't at
all mind reduced reps in pursuit of that goal. That being said,
pushups are the staple of many workout classes, so I guess I would
like, for once in my life, to be able to do them well.

Quoted message said:

Hope those suggestions are of some help to you. (And doing them on
your knuckles is fine - a long-standing martials arts tradition.)

Thanks very much. As I've mentioned, doing them on my palms hurts my
wrists, anyway, so I find knuckle pushups more comfortable.

--
monique

Monique Y. Mudama said:

On 2005-05-24, Larry Hodges penned:

Quoted message said:

Like John, I'd say your core is weak. Try doing "hovers" for a
minute at a time. Simply get in pushup form with your body out
straight, but rest on your elbows. Just hold it for a minute if you
can. If not, work up to it.

This makes so much sense that I'm embarrassed I haven't been doing it
already. Why elbows, though, instead of fists?

(Sorry for the late reply; things have gotten hectic around here)

I guess you could. But the intention is to work the core, not your upper
body. I've also heard it called "transverse core work". It's supposed to
strengthen your core differently than sit-ups and crunches. I don't know
that it does...I was simply told that it does by a trainer I respect.
--
-Larry

"Monique Y. Mudama" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

On 2005-05-25, Steve Freides penned:

Quoted message said:

There are things you can do - here are a few specific suggestions.

You want to focus on using your butt and even the backs of your legs
to pull your hips down in the back as well as using your abs to pull
you hips up from the front. It's not just your abs you need to use,
it's everything connected to your hips that will stabilize them in
the way you need. Doing wheel rollouts will teach you the proper
pelvis alignment. Do them kneeling, and get yourself a copy of
Pavel's "Bullet-Proof Abs" http://www.kbnj.com/bpa.htm or ask and
I'll be glad to give you some pointers here. The book is chock full
of other off-beat but very effective ab exercises.

I'm currently between jobs, so I can't spring for it right now. I'd
be happy to learn some new workouts, though to be honest, I know lots
of ab workouts. I just hate them *so much* that I need an instructor
or peer pressure to force me to do them. I attend classes about twice
a week in which we do several minutes of very difficult ab workouts.
I've seen a huge improvement in my ability to complete these workouts
since I started the classes, but I know my core is still weak.

Are there barbells and/or dumbbells at the location where you do your
ab workouts? If there are any where the weights are round and can
rotate independently of the bar, they can be used to do the rollout.

Art

Monique Y. Mudama said:

On 2005-05-24, Charles penned:

Quoted message said:

Many women find body-weight exercises difficult, particularly
pull-ups, dips and press-ups. Doing them on your knuckles make them
even more difficult.

I sure do! My great goal in life is to be able to one (1) pull-up.
I've never yet been able to do so. That will, I'm sure, require the
loss of some non-useful mass.

Start doing some negatives, which is getting to the top of the bar in
the completed pull-up position by climbing or getting someone to lift
you, and then lowering yourself under control.

Quoted message said:

Aside from the greater depth, how do you find knuckle pushups more
difficult?

I don't, but knuckles are bony and many people find putting all their
weight on their knuckles is 'uncomfortable'!! You must use the
position most comfortable for you.

Quoted message said:

Palm pushups hurt my wrists; this is even more of a
problem since I injured my wrist last year. The variation in which
the index fingers and thumbs form a diamond is easier on my wrist, but
works a different set of muscles.

Quoted message said:

Your back pain is probably due to the fact that all your core
muscles are not very strong. When you go into the 'front support
position' to do press-ups, the core muscles are committed to
'Isometric Contractions" in order to attempt to hold the body
straight. If you aren't straight from head to foot, your body is
either sagging mid-back or your rear end (butt) is raised, which
will cause back strain.

I feel like I've been extremely conscientious in keeping my body
straight. I'll have someone look at my form, though.

Quoted message said:

Try putting your palms flat on the floor about shoulder width apart
with the hands turned slightly inward. Start in the kneeling
position and do a few kneeling press-ups (push-ups) see:
http://www.netfit.co.uk/press_up%20_circuits.html

I've never heard the term press-up before; is that the more proper
term?

Only if you are English! ;o)

Quoted message said:

I typically do a mixture of kneeling and standard pushups, depending on
how much my back will take. The kneeling ones put less strain on my
back, but doing them doesn't seem to improve my back for the standard
ones. In fact, when I think back, I've always had this problem, even
when I spent all of my free time in the dojang as a teen. We were doing
pushups all over the place, but I always felt bad doing them.

You likely have a back problem which you may care to have investigated
by a qualified practitioner.

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

You can improve your core muscles on the Swiss (Exercise) Ball with
a variety of exercises, including crunches, reverse crunches, back
extensions and reverse back extensions et al.

I've been taking classes that incorporate about 7 minutes, twice a
week, of ab exercises; typically a minute each of various exercises.
Is twice a week to exhaustion (I can't even twitch after these sets)
enough for improvement?

It sounds like you are doing a circuit type routine, which is likely
to cause cardio respiratory fatigue more than it will encourage core
strength. Your abdoms are just another muscle and should be exercised
just as you would exercise any other muscle for strength.

Larry Hodges said:

Monique Y. Mudama said:

On 2005-05-24, Larry Hodges penned:

Quoted message said:

Like John, I'd say your core is weak. Try doing "hovers" for a
minute at a time. Simply get in pushup form with your body out
straight, but rest on your elbows. Just hold it for a minute if you
can. If not, work up to it.

This makes so much sense that I'm embarrassed I haven't been doing it
already. Why elbows, though, instead of fists?

(Sorry for the late reply; things have gotten hectic around here)

I guess you could. But the intention is to work the core, not your upper
body. I've also heard it called "transverse core work". It's supposed to
strengthen your core differently than sit-ups and crunches. I don't know
that it does...I was simply told that it does by a trainer I respect.

also called plank. yoga enthusiasts have been doing it for many years.
basically, it's just an isometric contraction of a lot of muscles
all working to keep your body straight. nothing special about it.

i do it as one part of core. also i do resisted twists, and some
axe chopping type work (actually axe chopping in reverse
to work the back side). if you search for core exercises
for tri-athletes, you'll see some ideas about multi-planar
movements. more functional based than swiss-ball sit-ups.

but what i usually suggest is to develop a routine of 6 or 7
core exercises and do a few every day. rotate the exercises.
....thehick.

"Monique Y. Mudama" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

On 2005-05-25, Steve Freides penned:

Quoted message said:

There are things you can do - here are a few specific suggestions.

You want to focus on using your butt and even the backs of your legs
to pull your hips down in the back as well as using your abs to pull
you hips up from the front. It's not just your abs you need to use,
it's everything connected to your hips that will stabilize them in
the way you need. Doing wheel rollouts will teach you the proper
pelvis alignment. Do them kneeling, and get yourself a copy of
Pavel's "Bullet-Proof Abs" http://www.kbnj.com/bpa.htm or ask and
I'll be glad to give you some pointers here. The book is chock full
of other off-beat but very effective ab exercises.

I'm currently between jobs, so I can't spring for it right now. I'd
be happy to learn some new workouts, though to be honest, I know lots
of ab workouts. I just hate them *so much* that I need an instructor
or peer pressure to force me to do them. I attend classes about twice
a week in which we do several minutes of very difficult ab workouts.
I've seen a huge improvement in my ability to complete these workouts
since I started the classes, but I know my core is still weak.

Quoted message said:

If you want to see the standing version of the ab wheel rollouts,
I've got a video of me here: http://www.kbnj.com/Inverted_Wheel.rm

Unfortunately, I'm not the biggest fan of RM, but I have found some
examples on the web. I've never tried anything like that, so I'll
have to check it out.

Google "Real Alternative" - that's what several people I know, me
included, now use to view Real files and it works just fine without any
of the headaches and hassles of the real Real player.

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Find a way to change the angle of your body - maybe a hill outside,
maybe putting your hands up on a step, maybe even half a plywood
ramp you can lay one end up on. This will make your pushups a
little easier, and we all know there are a lot of benefits to be had
from progressive resistance training, so try doing more reps when
they're easier and only a few reps on the floor for a while and see
if you can increase your midsection strength that way.

I've been mostly doing pushups at the class I mentioned; for home
workouts, though, yes, I should set something like this up.

Quoted message said:

Try pausing just above the floor on some of your pushups and
focusing on body alignment and staying tight in your midsection.

As soon as I get to the point that I can even *get* to "just above the
floor," I will be happy to try this! =P

Lower the resistance somehow will be worthwhile for you, even if you
only do it at home once a week and otherwise keep doing what you're
doing in class. If your goal is something for which you don't have the
strength to go the full range of motion now, you'll help yourself by
using the full range of motion but with less resistance - you want to
start to gain some strength in that position.

For fun, try standing up against a wall (read: a very easy angle for a
pushup) and doing it with only one-hand. Lots of fun, and lots of
lessons to learn about midsection tightness that way.

One more book for you - Pavel's "Naked Warrior"
http://www.kbnj.com/nw.htm talks a lot about tailoring the resistance of
bodyweight exercises to your current level of strength. The book is
almost completely about only two exercises, the one-armed pushup and the
one-legged squat, but most of what he says about the one-armed pushup
you can apply to the two-handed kind as well. One point he makes in the
book that's worth considering for you is that there are certain
advantages to doing pushups on your palms. It's probably a hump you
want to get over somehow or other - just keep the volume low, and again
maybe cook up something to decrease the wrist angle until you get used
to them.

Good luck.

-S-
http://www.kbnj.com

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

This will lower the number of reps you can do but it should increase
your strength and that will eventually translate into more reps when
you don't pause just above the floor.

Makes perfect sense. I'm ultimately interested in strength via
pushups, not really pushups for their own sake, so I wouldn't at
all mind reduced reps in pursuit of that goal. That being said,
pushups are the staple of many workout classes, so I guess I would
like, for once in my life, to be able to do them well.

Quoted message said:

Hope those suggestions are of some help to you. (And doing them on
your knuckles is fine - a long-standing martials arts tradition.)

Thanks very much. As I've mentioned, doing them on my palms hurts my
wrists, anyway, so I find knuckle pushups more comfortable.

--
monique

"Steve Freides" wrote

Quoted message said:

Google "Real Alternative" - that's what several people I know, me
included, now use to view Real files and it works just fine without any of
the headaches and hassles of the real Real player.

I just can't help myself.

Is "real Real player" a double negative? Or a double positive? Or a ??

Also, tell us alittle more about this alternative to Real Player. One of my
big objections to this trashy player was that it seemed to come with a lot
of spyware and other assorted garbage.