Fit like the pros

When a person goes to a shop to be fitted, what method would you have them use besides the common methods?

The "old methods" of fitting a bike still work for about 99.3% of riders. (I pulled that number out of thin air but I suspect it is closer to true than, say 80%).

If you know more about what works for you, then do it! The professional fittings (in my opinion) are for people that don't know what they want/need.

From my understanding, many elite pros don't stick to the formulas, they use wind tunnel testing... Therefore my assumption is that professional bike fitting will only get you "in the ballpark" anyway... fine tuning is personal. If you feel better on a smaller frame, then tell the fitter that you prefer them... If they refuse, then look elsewhere for your fitting, or do it yourself. If you don't express your preference, you get what is called for based on traditional sizing calculations.

You are your own advocate when you buy a bike... speak up for yourself.

The elite pros may use someone schooled in Biomechanics and or sports physiology that can determine when the said pros is hendering one or another aspect of his endurance and or power by his position. Just because I can go into a shop and tell the person that I want a bike that is one size smaller, and I want to run a 14 mm stem with 12 " of saddle to bar drop, doesn't mean that this is the best position for me. I am saying that there is a quantitative way for the position to be determined using more than just eyeballing and what used to work. Frames used to not be made proprtional either, i.e. you could get a frame that had a 56 seat tube and the only change to someone smaller would be that the top tube would be shorter. Check Sheldon Browns website for a longer description.

Before I continue, I would like to point out that I have never had a professional fitting, but I know that if/when I do, I must advocate for what I want. This is the same in any business dealings, whether with a retailer or a doctor...

If you want a professional fitting, I don't mean to say that you should specify everything and then fork over the money for a fitter to repeat it back to you.
What I am saying is that I would hope that a professional fitter could make the judgements to fit you properly on a smaller (or larger) frame than the standard formulas mandate if that is what you want. For example, if a fitter can determine what stem and seatpost to use for a specific 58 cm frame, they should be able to do the same for a specific 56 cm frame. The stem would probably be longer on the 56, and the seatpost will need to be longer... but it should be completely possible.

Perhaps though I am wrong... Whan a person gets fitted for a bike, does the rider have some input? I would hope that there have to be some questions asked, like "What type of riding do you do?" "How aggressive a position do you want?" or "What amount of drop do you want?" If so, then simply answer the implied question that is important to you "I like to ride a small bike, perhaps with a 56cm (or whatever) seat tube length."

The bottom line is not so much that I know what the technical answers are, but from a retail and/or service perspective... It is your money, make them earn it.

Well, to a certain extent I guess that you are right in the fact that you should take what the person says only after you have told them what type of riding/racing that you are to be doing. As far as how much drop you want, I do not think this can be determined by what I think I want. Just like I said, I would say for any given frame I am on that I do not want any spacers under my stem. On a larger frame, i.e. a 56 for instance, that would not put me as low as say doing the same thing on a 54 or 52. I could possibly ride any of these frames. What the fitter in a perfect world should be able to do is quantify the changes and how the change could effect you. This may not be done with a shop fitter, but rather someone who does only fittings and has some background in anatomy or sports physiology. Example, on the 52 frame, with the amount of drop that it will produce, am I going to collapse my chest cavity to the point where breathing is impeded, or are my hamstrings and glutes going to be stretched to the point where they will not be firing when they need too. The founder of the Wobblenaught fitting system goes into checking your muscles while you are riding to see if they are firing right, they also do video analysis of your pedal stroke. This may be more of what I am searching for. We will see, I have an appointment tomorrow with the only fitter that does this type in the area. There are people out there that only do fittings, that is the one that I would target, not one that you are buying a bike from, because like I said earlier, I could ride a 54, 56, or 58, and depending on what the bike shop wants to sell that day.....

SCDETAILER said:

Example, on the 52 frame, with the amount of drop that it will produce, am I going to collapse my chest cavity to the point where breathing is impeded, or are my hamstrings and glutes going to be stretched to the point where they will not be firing when they need too. The founder of the Wobblenaught fitting system goes into checking your muscles while you are riding to see if they are firing right, they also do video analysis of your pedal stroke.

Idealy, your power output and respiratory function should be measured while these changes are being made.

Exactly, that is what I was trying to get across, a way to test each position to get you in a position that is the most powerful aerodynamic and one that does not constrict you in any way. I think what happens is a person will fit a number of bikes, but does that fit give you the look that you are going for. I myself want a bike that looks like a pro bike, minimal to no stack height, 12omm or more stem and one that does not cause me to affect the power or breathing in anyway. Now if this is determined to be custom then so be it. If I need to ride a 56 c-t seat tube with a 53.5 tt, then so be it, if that gets me the look and the position that I am searching for. This also would be the time where the person would also understand the frame dynamics. If you make a bike like this, how is it going to handle, would the shorter wheelbase have to be compensated for by a slacker headtube angle or a more raked fork, or would it change it enough to bother. This gets back to what you want in a bike, quick handling, stiff or slower more laid back handling with a distance riding purpose. That is why I say that a shop will fit you to what it has, be it taking a 58cm bike that you can ride as long as they choke the stem up enough for your reach, where a dedicated fitter can put you on a bike that has the longer stem and still fit you right because that is what they do, they are not there to sale bikes.

FWIW, I switched to running a frame size one smaller than I started with (first bike was via a bike shop "pro" fitting) and I couldn’t be happier. I run a long stem 140mm to get the reach and have about a 6” drop to the bars. At first it was uncomfortable but now I wouldn’t want it any other way… and it is faster. I am no old man (at 30yrs), but no pro racer either, and I go out and do 7 hr 120+ mile rides with no discomfort. Ride what works best for you after some experimentation.

BTW, I am now back in the US and work just up the road from you (Grover, NC). God it is good to be back in an area with some of the best riding of the US, certainly of the eastern US!

wilmar13 said:

FWIW, I switched to running a frame size one smaller than I started with (first bike was via a bike shop "pro" fitting) and I couldn’t be happier. I run a long stem 140mm to get the reach and have about a 6” drop to the bars. At first it was uncomfortable but now I wouldn’t want it any other way… and it is faster. I am no old man (at 30yrs), but no pro racer either, and I go out and do 7 hr 120+ mile rides with no discomfort. Ride what works best for you after some experimentation.

BTW, I am now back in the US and work just up the road from you (Grover, NC). God it is good to be back in an area with some of the best riding of the US, certainly of the eastern US!

Your right up the road from me for sure. We jut came past there yesterday on our way to Morganton. We being one of my teammates and I. We had the Wobblenaught fitting done, and so far I am very satisfied. I have one shim under my stem, which is about a 1/2" tall (shim that is). My saddle height was moved up. My cleats were set to match my feet. We tested this new position on a 40 mile climbing loop. I felt like I rode, but not 40 miles. We averaged 20, with some good climbing. I think this new position is going to work out just fine. I still have to go up some more on the saddle, but the fitter wants me to gradually go up about .5 cm every two weeks until I am at the height that I am supposed to be at. Very satisfied.

I've seen pros on smaller frames, too, and wondered the same thing. All I can tell you is that I like big frames, and that it's personal preference, for me. I'll bet that all the pros are basing their fit on is weight, and nothing else.
I ride a 58 right now, and I'm getting a 61 in a week. The 58 feels like a peewee, for me, with it's compact frame. I'll be glad when I can stretch out and ride a larger bike. I don't know how much of this is psychological, given that frame dimensions, seat and handlebar height, and all the rest is based on exact numbers. But for me, I'd ride an oversized monster of a bike before I'd downsize. I wish they made blow horns with pull cords, like semis have, because I'd install one. That and a bottle cage made out of rebar.

Pros ride frames that are smaller for their "professionally fit" size or often custom frames. If you look at some of the bikes they have over 8" difference between saddle and handlebar. This is not possible with a normal size. Moreover the riders are always "covering" a lot of the bike. Meaning their saddles are way back and stems often 12-14 cms long. This makes handling responsive.
So they use shorter smaller and stiffer frames and adjust the fit using seatposts with outrageous offsets and length and stems that are over 120mm.

Just take a look...
cyclingnews.comprobikesOpen ↗

The only specified sizing they use is for the handlebar and crankarms and follow other UCI rules.

Look at this... :eek:
cyclingnews.comprobikesOpen ↗

cyclingnews.comprobikesOpen ↗

I was looking for Pettachi's and Cippo's bike but couldnt find it now. Sprinters are even more aggresive and looks like their saddle/handlebar offsets are 12"!! :eek:

The thing is these guys are VERY flexible. Mortals like us just cannot breath with positions like these.

Flexible? They must be made of rubber!!

I couldn't imagine riding round the Block on one of those machines, never mind a Century!!

Surely there must be different set-ups for different riding styles and of course ages/flexibility....?? Or are you Guys just talking about pro set-ups?

Another question...when you have 12" of seat post up your [censored] how can you tell a good frame from a bad one? Surely they must say "Wow, that seatpost certainly gives a smooth, responsive ride..." or something like that?

netscriber said:

Pros ride frames that are smaller for their "professionally fit" size or often custom frames. If you look at some of the bikes they have over 8" difference between saddle and handlebar. This is not possible with a normal size. Moreover the riders are always "covering" a lot of the bike. Meaning their saddles are way back and stems often 12-14 cms long. This makes handling responsive.
So they use shorter smaller and stiffer frames and adjust the fit using seatposts with outrageous offsets and length and stems that are over 120mm.

Just take a look...
cyclingnews.comprobikesOpen ↗

The only specified sizing they use is for the handlebar and crankarms and follow other UCI rules.

Look at this... :eek:
cyclingnews.comprobikesOpen ↗

cyclingnews.comprobikesOpen ↗

I was looking for Pettachi's and Cippo's bike but couldnt find it now. Sprinters are even more aggresive and looks like their saddle/handlebar offsets are 12"!! :eek:

The thing is these guys are VERY flexible. Mortals like us just cannot breath with positions like these.