fish oil and cholesterol

On Tue, 09 May 2006 12:13:36 +0200, Jon McKee <[email hidden]>

Quoted message said:

I always thought that fish oils was good for cholesterol because of
the fatty acids. But is also contains cholesterol (see
http://www.food-info.net/uk/qa/qa-fp142.htm), even more than eggs...
The site gives some info, but I don;t get it how it can be cholesterol
lowering when it has so much of the stuff in it.

Your liver produces most of the cholesterol in your body. The
cholesterol you get through food is a drop in the ocean. In any case,
fish oil doesn't appear to lower cholesterol, it appears to raise the
good HDL portion. In any case, if you are concerned about
cardiovascular disease, you should instead be looking at C-reactive
protein, fibrinogen and homocysteine.

--
"The trouble with the world is that the stupid are
cocksure and the intelligent are full of doubt"
-- Bertrand Russell

Most of the "experts" today are not familiar with the professional
nutritional literature, for example, the book "Modern Nutrition in
Health and Disease," by Shils and Young, or "Diet and Health," by the
National Research Council.

In the 7th edition of this book, on page 102, we learn that the "the
"data certainly do not support the widely published assumption that n-3
fatty acids possess a specific retarding effect on atherogenesis... in
rabbits at least, they seem to stimulate atherosclerosis." The animals
had liver damage as well as "Periportal fibrosis, lipogranulomas filled
with lipofuscin, and bile duct hyperplasia."

The authors go on to say: "Other potentially harmful effects of 20:5
n-3 and 22:6 n-3 [that is, EPA and DHA] rich fish oils are neglected by
the advocates of increased human consumption of fish oils. The
pathologically increased bleeding times, as observed after aspirin
ingestion, also occurs in Eskimos on a high fish oil diet." The authors
then talk about "a promoting role of [EPA/DHA] in the development of
carrdiac necrosis and an increased sensitivity to catecholamine
stress." And then they state that extreme tocopherol ("vitamin E"😉
deficiency occurs with fish oil supplementation. Another telling
quotation: "...the most severe degree of atherosclerosis was observed
in rabbits fed fish oil, with a similar trend in the [flax] oil group.,
rather than after feeding palm oil with its high concentration of
palmitic and stearic acid [saturated fatty acids]."

What they are talking about when they say that fish oil is "healthy" is
that it inhibits the metabolization of AA, but you don't need AA in
your body at all, and saying that fish oil is healthy in this context
is like saying that the patient died but the operation was successful.

Don't be fooled by the snake oil salesmen who are now hawking the fish
oil.

Jon McKee <[email hidden]> wrote in part:

Quoted message said:

I always thought that fish oils was good for cholesterol because of
the fatty acids. But is also contains cholesterol (see
http://www.food-info.net/uk/qa/qa-fp142.htm), even more than eggs...
The site gives some info, but I don;t get it how it can be cholesterol
lowering when it has so much of the stuff in it.

help !

Fish oil does not lower cholesterol. It lowers triglycerides, and may
increase HDL cholesterol.

You can easily buy fish oil that has had the cholesterol removed..
--
Jim Chinnis Warrenton, Virginia, USA [email hidden]

For a good summary on the uses, mechanisms, and research, see:

http://pdrhealth.com/drug_info/nmdrugprofiles/nutsupdrugs/eic_0104.shtml
http://pdrhealth.com/drug_info/nmdrugprofiles/nutsupdrugs/fis_0106.shtml

In article <[email hidden]>,

Jim Chinnis said:

Jon McKee <[email hidden]> wrote in part:

Quoted message said:

I always thought that fish oils was good for cholesterol because of
the fatty acids. But is also contains cholesterol (see
http://www.food-info.net/uk/qa/qa-fp142.htm), even more than eggs...
The site gives some info, but I don;t get it how it can be cholesterol
lowering when it has so much of the stuff in it.

help !

Fish oil does not lower cholesterol. It lowers triglycerides, and may
increase HDL cholesterol.

You can easily buy fish oil that has had the cholesterol removed..
--
Jim Chinnis Warrenton, Virginia, USA [email hidden]

Quoted message said:

What they are talking about when they say that fish oil is "healthy" is
that it inhibits the metabolization of AA, but you don't need AA in
your body at all, and saying that fish oil is healthy in this context
is like saying that the patient died but the operation was successful.

Without AA in your cells a nosebleeding will turn out completely fatal
at first try.

Alf:

Reality, unfortunately, conflicts with your textbook beliefs. How come
the rats in the 1948 study were fine with no fat at all in their diets?

I challenge you to an experiment that would settle this, the "loser"
will pay for all expenses. First, we will determine that the Mead acid
has replaced AA in my body, and then if that is so, I will cut myself
and we will see if I bleed to death. Do you accept?

The funny thing is that fish oil is what will kill people via excessive
bleeding - the literature is clear on this point. Exactly what are you
reading, man? Researchers found that young and healthy human joints
have Mead acid in it, and we all know how young people often fall and
stress their joints. Why aren't they all dying? Alf, why can't you
use your reasoning ability here? Your claim is so far beyond ludicrous
that it would make terrible science fiction because people (if they
knew the literature) would say that they could not suspend disbelief
because it's so silly.

Quoted message said:

the most severe degree of atherosclerosis was observed
in rabbits fed fish oil,

Rabbits don't normally eat fish at all, so is that relevant? Do they
get similar fatty acids from some other source normally?

Quoted message said:

Reality, unfortunately, conflicts with your textbook beliefs. How come
the rats in the 1948 study were fine with no fat at all in their diets?

I'd take a textbook belief over a Britannia Book of the Year (or
whatever your oft-repeated obscure reference is) belief anyday. In this
1948 study did they cut the rats and measure bleeding times? Were they
completely normal times and is that what you mean by "fine"?

Quoted message said:

The funny thing is that fish oil is what will kill people via excessive
bleeding - the literature is clear on this point.

You need excessive fish oil to get excessive bleeding i.e. an excess
over the AA. In people with coronary heart disease the increased
bleeding time - if an injury occurs - is a small price to pay for a
greatly reduced chance of intravascular clotting and platlet
aggregation.

Quoted message said:

Exactly what are you
reading, man? Researchers found that young and healthy human joints
have Mead acid in it, and we all know how young people often fall and
stress their joints. Why aren't they all dying?

Why on earth would they die? Cartilage in joints is extremely poorly
vascularized (which is probably why it has Mead acid in the first
place), so any damage won't lead to significant bleeding (if any) from
the joint itself.

Quoted message said:

Alf, why can't you
use your reasoning ability here? Your claim is so far beyond ludicrous
that it would make terrible science fiction because people (if they
knew the literature) would say that they could not suspend disbelief
because it's so silly.

As usual you've inverted your situation and someone else's.

MattLB

Quoted message said:

Reality, unfortunately, conflicts with your textbook beliefs. How come
the rats in the 1948 study were fine with no fat at all in their diets?

1948?

Monty, this is 2006.

Just thought that you might want to know.

Being that research is constantly being repeated cannot you find a more
recent study, say 2002?

Evojeesus said:

Rabbits don't normally eat fish at all, so is that relevant? Do they
get similar fatty acids from some other source normally?

They may eat purslane which is high in omega-3 fatty acids.

--
Ron

In article <[email hidden]>,

Kev said:

For a good summary on the uses, mechanisms, and research, see:

http://pdrhealth.com/drug_info/nmdrugprofiles/nutsupdrugs/eic_0104.shtml
http://pdrhealth.com/drug_info/nmdrugprofiles/nutsupdrugs/fis_0106.shtml

Thanks, nice couple of links that I hadn't seen before.

DRT