Fish chowder question

zxcvbob said:

Is tomato-based clam chowder (I think it's called "Manhatten style"😉
supposed to have bacon in it, or is that just the creamy chowders?

I've thawed out a bunch of whitefish fillets, and am thinking about
making a fish stew or chowder with some of them, and tomatoes,

potatoes,

Quoted message said:

chicken broth, clam juice, onions, celery, peppers, thyme, etc. I

think

Quoted message said:

I have everything on-hand except the clam juice, but I don't have any

Quoted message said:

fish heads and shrimp shells to make my own fish stock.

I usually fry a couple of pieces of bacon, make a roux with the bacon

Quoted message said:

grease, and add milk. If I use tomatoes instead of milk and I'm

gonna

Quoted message said:

let the potatoes do the thickening instead of a roux, do I still need

Quoted message said:

bacon for the flavor?

I know whitefish is not the best choice for this, but I'm trying to

use

Quoted message said:

up what's in the freezers. I'll add the fish when the stew is nearly

Quoted message said:

done so it doesn't fall apart too much.

Bacon is an option, I don't like the flavor in any fish dishes, I much
prefer butter, especially butter in cream based fish dishes... if I
want smoked fish I'll buy smoked fish. Whitefish, one of the most
popular fish for gefilte, is excellent eating myriad ways, happens to
be wonderful for chowder, even better for poaching... and smoked
there's none better.

whitefish
Found in lakes and streams throughout North America, the whitefish is a
member of the SALMON family. Its high-fat, mild-flavored flesh is firm
and white. Fresh whitefish can be found year-round and are generally
marketed whole (from 2 to 6 pounds) or in fillets. They're also
available frozen and smoked. Whitefish can be poached, baked, broiled
or grilled. The ROE can be used for CAVIAR or cooked.
© Copyright Barron's Educational Services, Inc. 1995 based on THE FOOD
LOVER'S COMPANION, 2nd edition, by Sharon Tyler Herbst

Whitefish Chowder from Door County restaurant

Quoted message said:

From the Journal Sentinel

This recipe is the popular whitefish chowder served at The Cookery in
Fish Creek, home of one of Door County's many famous fish boils.

Whitefish Chowder

2 cups water
1 1/2 pounds whitefish fillets
1 teaspoon salt
2 cups peeled, diced potatoes
1/2 cup diced carrots
1 cup diced onion
1/2 cup diced green bell pepper
1/2 cup diced red bell pepper
1 to 2 teaspoons hot pepper sauce, to taste
2 teaspoons Angostura bitters (optional)
1/4 teaspoon freshly ground black pepper
1 teaspoon garlic powder
4 cups milk
24 ounces bottled clam juice
1 tablespoon fresh lemon juice
1/2 cup bacon fat (from about 10 strips of bacon; may substitute
cooking oil or butter)
1/2 cup flour

In 6-quart kettle or stockpot, place water and whitefish. Bring to boil
over medium-high heat. Reduce heat and simmer, covered, 15 minutes or
until fish flakes easily with fork. Remove fish from broth and set
aside.

Add salt, potatoes, carrots, onion and green and red pepper to fish
broth. Bring to boil, then reduce heat and simmer, covered, about 30
minutes or until potatoes and carrots are tender.

Add hot pepper sauce, bitters, black pepper, garlic powder and milk.
Combine clam juice and lemon juice; add to pot. Bring to boil; reduce
heat and let simmer while making roux.

In heavy, medium saucepan, heat bacon fat until completely melted and
gradually whisk in flour. Let cook over medium heat, whisking
constantly, 1 minute. Gradually whisk roux into simmering chowder.

Gently stir in reserved fish; blend with other ingredients. Serve hot.
---

Sheldon

zxcvbob said:

Is tomato-based clam chowder (I think it's called "Manhatten style"😉
supposed to have bacon in it, or is that just the creamy chowders?
<snip>

I usually fry a couple of pieces of bacon, make a roux with the bacon
grease, and add milk. If I use tomatoes instead of milk and I'm

gonna

Quoted message said:

let the potatoes do the thickening instead of a roux, do I still need

Quoted message said:

bacon for the flavor? <snip>

I don't think so. I don't think that I've ever had Manhatten style
clam chowder with bacon (which doesn't mean of course that you can't
put bacon in it). The flavor of Manhatten chowder is pretty assertive
and IMO doesn't need bacon to boost it. Hmmm...I have a little trouble
imagining what the chowder would taste like with bacon.

Mac

Quoted message said:

zxcvbob said:

Is tomato-based clam chowder (I think it's called "Manhatten

style"😉

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

supposed to have bacon in it, or is that just the creamy chowders?
<snip>

I usually fry a couple of pieces of bacon, make a roux with the

bacon

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

grease, and add milk. If I use tomatoes instead of milk and I'm

gonna

Quoted message said:

let the potatoes do the thickening instead of a roux, do I still

need

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

bacon for the flavor? <snip>

I don't think so. I don't think that I've ever had Manhatten style
clam chowder with bacon (which doesn't mean of course that you can't
put bacon in it). The flavor of Manhatten chowder is pretty

assertive

Quoted message said:

and IMO doesn't need bacon to boost it. Hmmm...I have a little

trouble

Quoted message said:

imagining what the chowder would taste like with bacon.

Mac

Smoked clams are good but not for chowder... I think manhattan clam
chowder is better made with salt pork.

Sheldon

zxcvbob said:

Is tomato-based clam chowder (I think it's called "Manhatten style"😉
supposed to have bacon in it, or is that just the creamy chowders?

Hi, Bob.

Manhattan clam chowder is tomato-based and has no bacon in it.
New England clam chowder is milk-based and uses salt pork.
Rhode Island clam chowder is water-based (and also uses salt pork).

(Granted, RI is part of New England, but they have their very own
chowdah convention :-) )

The other dimension (and very controversial) is how thick chowders
should be. New England purists insist that chowder be runny (milk,
butter, waxy potatoes not smushed to thicken, etc.) while others
(deluded souls that they be and not *true* New Englanders) will thicken
it with flour, cornstarch, mashed starchy potatoes and so forth in the
belief that "thick" somehow equals "rich."

Quoted message said:

I've thawed out a bunch of whitefish fillets, and am thinking about
making a fish stew or chowder with some of them, and tomatoes, potatoes,
chicken broth, clam juice, onions, celery, peppers, thyme, etc. I think
I have everything on-hand except the clam juice, but I don't have any
fish heads and shrimp shells to make my own fish stock.

I usually fry a couple of pieces of bacon, make a roux with the bacon
grease, and add milk. If I use tomatoes instead of milk and I'm gonna
let the potatoes do the thickening instead of a roux, do I still need
bacon for the flavor?

If you're not striving for traditional clam chowder, you can do whatever
you want, but I'd leave the bacon out if using tomatoes, celery, etc.,
which, along with the fish, will give you great flavor. Throw in a
splash of Worcestershire sauce if you like or perhaps a teaspoon of
seafood seasoning (Old Bay a classic favorite).

Quoted message said:

I know whitefish is not the best choice for this, but I'm trying to use
up what's in the freezers. I'll add the fish when the stew is nearly
done so it doesn't fall apart too much.

Whitefish works for me! And if your goal is a general seafood chowder,
consider adding some thing(s) with a different texture, e.g. shrimp, to
add to the complexity of the dish.

Tip: Save canned fish (tuna, clams, salmon, etc.) juices in a freezer
box and use as stock for seafood-based soups/stews/chowders/casseroles
(diluted as appropriate).

--
Mr. Civility

That Brett Favre recipe has the longest list of ingredients I've ever
seen for a recipe in my life! He must make that one up during the
off-season! 🙂

Want to make sure I got this right, Mr. Civility. Just save the juice
from the tuna can, and other fish juices, in the freezer, and use if
for fish stock? Does it need to be cooked with anything else, or just
used as is?

salgud said:

Want to make sure I got this right, Mr. Civility. Just save the juice
from the tuna can, and other fish juices, in the freezer, and use it
for fish stock?

Yes.

Quoted message said:

Does it need to be cooked with anything else, or just
used as is?

Well, it's already "cooked" in that canned seafood is pasteurized in the
can, so no, you don't have to do anything to it to use it safely.
However, right out of the can, it's going to taste like ... well ... a
slightly cooked version of whatever was in the can. If you use it as
stock, it will be cooked further. Whatever taste it had will be
mellowed out by cooking it as part of the soup/stew/chowder. The canned
juices are pretty concentrated, however, compared to, say, boiled fish
heads and vegetables, so I'd treat the liquid as "concentrated" fish
stock and dilute it with water (perhaps 3 to 1) if I was using it as
"stock."

Note: (probably obvious) I'm refering to seafood canned in water, not oil.

--
Mr. Civility

Thanks for your reply. Very Civility of you!

Note: (probably obvious) I'm refering to seafood canned in water, not
oil.

Was obvious to me, but I've been cooking a while. Best to make sure...

Sounds like a great way to make fish broth. Can't wait to open my next
can of tuna!

Bubbabob said:

zxcvbob said:

Is tomato-based clam chowder (I think it's called "Manhatten style"😉
supposed to have bacon in it, or is that just the creamy chowders?

I've thawed out a bunch of whitefish fillets, and am thinking about
making a fish stew or chowder with some of them, and tomatoes,
potatoes, chicken broth, clam juice, onions, celery, peppers, thyme,
etc. I think I have everything on-hand except the clam juice, but I
don't have any fish heads and shrimp shells to make my own fish stock.

I usually fry a couple of pieces of bacon, make a roux with the bacon
grease, and add milk. If I use tomatoes instead of milk and I'm gonna
let the potatoes do the thickening instead of a roux, do I still need
bacon for the flavor?

I know whitefish is not the best choice for this, but I'm trying to
use up what's in the freezers. I'll add the fish when the stew is
nearly done so it doesn't fall apart too much.

Thanks, regards,

I usually make this with catfish nuggets. They hold together better and
seem to eliminate the need for fish stock. I cook everything in the
pressure cooker except for the fish and add it for the last 5 or 6
minuted. Fresh corn sliced from the cob is also an important ingredient
and I use a finely diced habanero for spice (in a 7 liter batch). I
never use tomatoes. Replacing the milk with yogurt after the fish goes
in works well, too. I use either bacon or well-fried salt pork, finely
cubed.

That's Different!™

Here's what I ended up with tonight.
I sauteed a chopped onion, a jalapeno, and a little celery in a
tablespoon of lard. Then added some leftover chicken broth, a pint of
leftover canned tomatoes, a few peeled leftover cherry tomatoes, and
some bay leaves. Simmered until the vegetable were soft and it smelled
wonderfully of bayleaf, then added a bottle of clam juice, some thyme,
cayenne pepper, and a few diced waxy potatoes. And a generous pinch of
dried diced green peppers. When the potatoes were done, I added 3 or 4
whitefish fillets and a pinch of marjoram, and cooked until the fish was
flaky. It needed a little more salt, so I added some salty Thia fish
sauce -- almost a big mistake cuz it smelled so bad, but the nasty smell
dissipated quickly. I also added some fresh ground black pepper. I ate
2 bit bowlfuls for supper, and Daughter had a bowl too and pronounced it
good. There's quite a bit left.

Best regards,
Bob