First training run in years

Steve Freides said:

flats I've used feel too cushy. If I found a good shoe, I might wear
it, but the idea of barefoot or socks is very appealing right about now.
I have wide feet, racing flats and other minimalist shoes are very hard
to find.

Asics Piranhas. Or Nike Waffle Racer shoes (the cross country flats).

If you have wide feet, you just need to keep sizing up until they're wide
enough, especially since flats usually run small (sometimes very small). Size
them by width, not length. Better to have a shoe toe long than not wide
enough.

But seriously, you'd be better off focusing on your training and not worrying
so much about your shoes. Just wear a running shoe (converse allstars are not
appropriate for running.)

Cheers,
--
Elflord

On Nov 19, 12:59 pm, "Steve Freides" <[email hidden]>

Quoted message said:

The particulars:

On my old Trotter treadmill, bought very used for $200 from the local
YMCA where I volunteer, has something like 90,000 miles on it but will
probably outlast me.

Incline set to 1% - I believe this is still the recommendation for
treadmill running in prep for outdoors.

Footwear - socks (more below)

Cadence - took it for 15 seconds a few times, got 43-44, so 170-175/min
or so, not bad given how long it's been.

Pace - anemic. Started at 3 mph, which is 20:00/mile pace, and it
actually felt like I was running. I remember the days when I couldn't
figure out how to run that slow. Gradually increased the pace to end at
5 mph or 12:00/mile.

Distance: 0.75 miles - could have gone further but discretion is the
better part of valor, I hope, and I would like to do this again in
another day or two.

Other:

Had already done a strength/endurance weight workout of kettlebell
snatches - 16 kg weight, 12 minutes total time, 14 reps per minute, 168
total reps.

Calves sore afterwards but in an OK way, I think. Tried to run chi
style: lifted from the crown of the head, weight and footstrike
centered, small steps.

Would like to run on the streets barefoot or in socks, currently wearing
Ultimax Triathlon socks which hold up very well to walking and running
in shoes, don't know how they'll be for this. I have yet to find a shoe
that gives me the feedback I feel I need to run well - the closest thing
is my Converse Allstars but they're heavy as bricks. Even the racing
flats I've used feel too cushy. If I found a good shoe, I might wear
it, but the idea of barefoot or socks is very appealing right about now.
I have wide feet, racing flats and other minimalist shoes are very hard
to find.

The plan is to get used to running again and then use Daniel's "Running
Formula" as my guide in preparation for a 5k at the end of May, 2008.

Comments and suggestions welcomed.

-S-http://www.kbnj.com

Steve:

Good on ya. I know how nice a feeling it can be to get back after
some time off--speed and distance be damned, at this point. Were you
injured? How long were you out?

brianj

Steve Freides:

Quoted message said:

I have yet to find a shoe
that gives me the feedback I feel I need to run well - the closest thing
is my Converse Allstars but they're heavy as bricks. Even the racing
flats I've used feel too cushy.

Flip flops!

http://www.sptimes.com/2007/10/04/Life/Catching_up_with_the_.shtml

Hmm, west-central FL. That might be the dude who posts here under
the alias "joe positive", isn't he from Tampa or something?

People have run barefoot on pavement and lived to tell about it - good
luck if you try that route. Or if you want more feedback on
minimalist shoe options for people with fat feet, you might also try
the letsrun.com forum, at which reside a number of shoe minimalists.
Or posetech.com which I've never visited, but presumably they're big
fans of minimal shoes.

In article
<[email hidden]>,

Charlie Pendejo said:

Hmm, west-central FL. That might be the dude who posts here under
the alias "joe positive", isn't he from Tampa or something?

That "dude" is a "dudette" named Karen.

"brianj" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

On Nov 19, 12:59 pm, "Steve Freides" <[email hidden]>

Quoted message said:

The particulars:

On my old Trotter treadmill, bought very used for $200 from the local
YMCA where I volunteer, has something like 90,000 miles on it but
will
probably outlast me.

Incline set to 1% - I believe this is still the recommendation for
treadmill running in prep for outdoors.

Footwear - socks (more below)

Cadence - took it for 15 seconds a few times, got 43-44, so
170-175/min
or so, not bad given how long it's been.

Pace - anemic. Started at 3 mph, which is 20:00/mile pace, and it
actually felt like I was running. I remember the days when I
couldn't
figure out how to run that slow. Gradually increased the pace to end
at
5 mph or 12:00/mile.

Distance: 0.75 miles - could have gone further but discretion is the
better part of valor, I hope, and I would like to do this again in
another day or two.

Other:

Had already done a strength/endurance weight workout of kettlebell
snatches - 16 kg weight, 12 minutes total time, 14 reps per minute,
168
total reps.

Calves sore afterwards but in an OK way, I think. Tried to run chi
style: lifted from the crown of the head, weight and footstrike
centered, small steps.

Would like to run on the streets barefoot or in socks, currently
wearing
Ultimax Triathlon socks which hold up very well to walking and
running
in shoes, don't know how they'll be for this. I have yet to find a
shoe
that gives me the feedback I feel I need to run well - the closest
thing
is my Converse Allstars but they're heavy as bricks. Even the racing
flats I've used feel too cushy. If I found a good shoe, I might wear
it, but the idea of barefoot or socks is very appealing right about
now.
I have wide feet, racing flats and other minimalist shoes are very
hard
to find.

The plan is to get used to running again and then use Daniel's
"Running
Formula" as my guide in preparation for a 5k at the end of May, 2008.

Comments and suggestions welcomed.

-S-http://www.kbnj.com

Steve:

Good on ya. I know how nice a feeling it can be to get back after
some time off--speed and distance be damned, at this point. Were you
injured? How long were you out?

brianj

Off from running by choice - ran for 20+ years, had a very bad back
injury, started lifting, got really into lifting, and am now returning
to some running some of the time - we'll see how it goes. Set a
lifetime 5k PR at age 45 then gave it up shortly thereafter. Thanks for
asking.

-S-
http://www.kbnj.com

Pendejo:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Hmm, west-central FL. That might be the dude who posts here under
the alias "joe positive", isn't he from Tampa or something?

Michelle:

Quoted message said:

That "dude" is a "dudette" named Karen.

Thanks!

Sorry, Karen.

Charlie Pendejo said:

Steve Freides:

Quoted message said:

I have yet to find a shoe
that gives me the feedback I feel I need to run well - the closest thing
is my Converse Allstars but they're heavy as bricks. Even the racing
flats I've used feel too cushy.

Flip flops!

http://www.sptimes.com/2007/10/04/Life/Catching_up_with_the_.shtml

Hmm, west-central FL. That might be the dude who posts here under
the alias "joe positive", isn't he from Tampa or something?

Wow, that was a great read. I can't decide if when I grow up I want to
be just like flip-flop man or absolutely nothing like flip-flop man. I
can't imagine finding some compromise position satisfactory.

Quoted message said:

People have run barefoot on pavement and lived to tell about it - good
luck if you try that route. Or if you want more feedback on
minimalist shoe options for people with fat feet, you might also try
the letsrun.com forum, at which reside a number of shoe minimalists.
Or posetech.com which I've never visited, but presumably they're big
fans of minimal shoes.

There's a guy I met on my (mostly asphalt) running path (and I also
ran a 5 mile road race with him) who runs all his miles in swimming
shoes or aqua socks or whatever they're called. They're those stretch
neoprene short booties with rubberized bottoms. He says he's been
running in them for years, buys them in bulk, gets about 100 miles out
of every pair. That's about as minimalist as you can get short of
barefoot or maybe flip-flops.

"tfactor" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Charlie Pendejo said:

Steve Freides:

Quoted message said:

I have yet to find a shoe
that gives me the feedback I feel I need to run well - the closest
thing
is my Converse Allstars but they're heavy as bricks. Even the
racing
flats I've used feel too cushy.

Flip flops!

http://www.sptimes.com/2007/10/04/Life/Catching_up_with_the_.shtml

Hmm, west-central FL. That might be the dude who posts here under
the alias "joe positive", isn't he from Tampa or something?

Wow, that was a great read. I can't decide if when I grow up I want to
be just like flip-flop man or absolutely nothing like flip-flop man. I
can't imagine finding some compromise position satisfactory.

Quoted message said:

People have run barefoot on pavement and lived to tell about it -
good
luck if you try that route. Or if you want more feedback on
minimalist shoe options for people with fat feet, you might also try
the letsrun.com forum, at which reside a number of shoe minimalists.
Or posetech.com which I've never visited, but presumably they're big
fans of minimal shoes.

There's a guy I met on my (mostly asphalt) running path (and I also
ran a 5 mile road race with him) who runs all his miles in swimming
shoes or aqua socks or whatever they're called. They're those stretch
neoprene short booties with rubberized bottoms. He says he's been
running in them for years, buys them in bulk, gets about 100 miles out
of every pair. That's about as minimalist as you can get short of
barefoot or maybe flip-flops.

That sounds like an interesting idea.

-S-
http://www.kbnj.com

tfactor:

Quoted message said:

Wow, that was a great read. I can't decide if when I grow up I want to
be just like flip-flop man or absolutely nothing like flip-flop man. I
can't imagine finding some compromise position satisfactory.

If you're still on the fence in another year or two, how about you put
it to a wreck.running vote?

I'd gladly throw in a starter bag of sugar.

Quoted message said:

There's a guy I met on my (mostly asphalt) running path (and I also
ran a 5 mile road race with him) who runs all his miles in swimming
shoes or aqua socks or whatever they're called.

Pretty sure of Ozzy G's gang in this group a little before my time
were into the aqua socks. Certainly seems more hardcore than H
Streets and their ilk, though less durable.

I believe I could almost run in something like that, and would
probably enjoy it, except for one spot on my right forefoot which gets
calloused from running in too little shoe (Fila's 7 oz. Corsa Sette is
enough, Nike's 6 oz Streak XC or their Waffle Racer is, over
sufficient pavement miles, too little). Pretty sure that's related to
whatever asymmetry tends to give me problems on the right leg and not
the left , and also shows up as the right foot rotated outward a bit.
Went to a chiro last year to try and get a handle on that but he
struck out. Maybe try a rolfer or podiatrist or something
eventually. Otherwise I've been comfortable enough jogging up to a
mile in Birkenstock sandals or hard-soled dress shoes.

Charlie Pendejo said:

Hmm, west-central FL. That might be the dude who posts here under
the alias "joe positive", isn't he from Tampa or something?

Nope, I'm someone completely different, but I've seen Larry a number
of times. He used to show up at my club's track workouts and run on
peoples' heels, which was kind of annoying. Once he jumped into a
half-marathon and ran with me a bit.

Karen

live! vicariously!