First road bike: braking?

"Alan Hoyle" <[email hidden]> wrote in message "]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

I'm in the market for my first road bike. I currently use a '94 Trek 970 mountain bike with slicks
for commuting (3 miles) that I've upgraded several times over the years (notably XT V brakes,
Rockshox FSX carbon fork, and a few other things) but I've been doing some slightly longer rides
and have found it uncomfortable, particularly my hands get numb after a while.

So, I've been test driving a few road bikes. While they have all seemed to be more comfortable and
seem more efficient, the brakes have invariably seemed to be far less powerful than I'm used to.
Is this universal for road bikes? Is there any way to make them stop faster?

-alan

--
Alan Hoyle - [email hidden] - alanhoyle.comalanhoyle.comOpen ↗ "I don't want the world, I just want
your half." -TMBG Get Horizontal, Play Ultimate.

Remember, V-brakes have quite a bit of leverage compared to a road brake. Of course, changing brake
pads can help the effectiveness of road brakes. Try using Kool-Stop pads, the pink ones. They seem
to have good braking and others here seem to agree.

Cheers,

Scott..

Quoted message said:

While they have all seemed to be more comfortable and seem more efficient, the brakes have
invariably seemed to be far less powerful than I'm used to. Is this universal for road bikes? Is
there any way to make them stop faster?

My Ultegra brakes seem to stop me pretty quick.

S. Anderson said:

Try using Kool-Stop pads, the pink ones. They seem to have good braking and others here seem
to agree.

The salmon Kool Stops also don't coat your bike with gray [censored] if you ride in the rain.

Barry

Alan Hoyle said:

So, I've been test driving a few road bikes. While they have all seemed to be more comfortable and
seem more efficient, the brakes have invariably seemed to be far less powerful than I'm used to.
Is this universal for road bikes? Is there any way to make them stop faster?

That's surprising. Modern dual-pivot road brakes have a lot more stopping power than older road
brakes. Specifically, what model brakes have you been trying? Any of the current Campagnolo or
Shimano dual-pivot models should provide excellent braking. Perhaps they're not set up properly, or
you're not getting a good grip on the levers.

Make sure the rims are clean and the pads are adjusted properly. Try the *salmon* colored Kool Stop
pads (not red or pink [?]).

See: sheldonbrown.combrakeshoes.htmlOpen ↗

Art Harris

Never rode a recent road bike, I never liked road bikes. I did several 30 miles road rides on my
MTB. For the hand problems, good gloves and bar ends do the trick for me. With the bar ends I can
changes the position of my hands to prevent them from getting numb. As for the brakes, the V-brakes
are very powerfull in the woods even on very steep hills. But above certain speed 25 mph (going down
a hill on pavement) they don't break as well as I would like them to. For my next MTB I'll go with
disc brakes.

"Alan Hoyle" <[email hidden]> wrote in message "]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

I'm in the market for my first road bike. I currently use a '94 Trek 970 mountain bike with slicks
for commuting (3 miles) that I've upgraded several times over the years (notably XT V brakes,
Rockshox FSX carbon fork, and a few other things) but I've been doing some slightly longer rides
and have found it uncomfortable, particularly my hands get numb after a while.

So, I've been test driving a few road bikes. While they have all seemed to be more comfortable and
seem more efficient, the brakes have invariably seemed to be far less powerful than I'm used to.
Is this universal for road bikes? Is there any way to make them stop faster?

-alan

--
Alan Hoyle - [email hidden] - alanhoyle.comalanhoyle.comOpen ↗ "I don't want the world, I just want
your half." -TMBG Get Horizontal, Play Ultimate.

Art Harris said:

Alan Hoyle said:

So, I've been test driving a few road bikes. While they have all seemed to be more comfortable
and seem more efficient, the brakes have invariably seemed to be far less powerful than I'm used
to. Is this universal for road bikes? Is there any way to make them stop faster?

That's surprising. Modern dual-pivot road brakes have a lot more stopping power than older road
brakes. Specifically, what model brakes have you been trying? Any of the current Campagnolo or
Shimano dual-pivot models should provide excellent braking. Perhaps they're not set up properly,
or you're not getting a good grip on the levers.

Make sure the rims are clean and the pads are adjusted properly. Try the *salmon* colored Kool
Stop pads (not red or pink [?]).

See: sheldonbrown.combrakeshoes.htmlOpen ↗

Art Harris

I don't know -- my old Trek and my new LeMond have similar stopping power, in my opinion.

--
Bob M in CT Remove 'x.' to reply

Paul Bielec said:

Never rode a recent road bike, I never liked road bikes. I did several 30 miles road rides
on my MTB.

But that is about the limit for most people on a mountain bike.

Quoted message said:

But above certain speed 25 mph (going down a hill on pavement) they don't break as well as I would
like them to. For my next MTB I'll go with disc brakes.

So, your mountain bike doesn't brake well going downhill on roads, and your solution is to get
another mountain bike? For riding on roads I'd have to recommend, let's see, oh yeah, a road bike.

--

David L. Johnson

__o | Enron's slogan: Respect, Communication, Integrity, and _`\(,_ | Excellence. (_)/ (_) |

actually my MTB stops better on pavement than my road bike....because of the bigger contact patch
of rubber.

--

"David L. Johnson" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
"]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Paul Bielec said:

Never rode a recent road bike, I never liked road bikes. I did several

30

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

miles road rides on my MTB.

But that is about the limit for most people on a mountain bike.

Quoted message said:

But above certain speed 25 mph (going down a hill on pavement) they don't break as well as I
would like them to. For my next MTB I'll go with disc brakes.

So, your mountain bike doesn't brake well going downhill on roads, and your solution is to get
another mountain bike? For riding on roads I'd have to recommend, let's see, oh yeah, a road bike.

--

David L. Johnson

__o | Enron's slogan: Respect, Communication, Integrity, and _`\(,_ | Excellence. (_)/ (_) |

Quoted message said:

So, your mountain bike doesn't brake well going downhill on roads, and your solution is to get
another mountain bike? For riding on roads I'd have to recommend, let's see, oh yeah, a road bike.

I'm talking on going down a very steep hill on a small pavement stretch nearly at the end of a XC
trail. Right at the bottom of the hill, the trail goes back to the woods while the road continues
staight. I'm not convinced that a road bike would brake any better at around 30 mph still on the
slope. Anyway, I find road bikes boring. I prefer the woods to the bike path.

Paul Bielec said:

I'm talking on going down a very steep hill on a small pavement stretch nearly at the end of a
XC trail. Right at the bottom of the hill, the trail goes back to the woods while the road
continues staight. I'm not convinced that a road bike would brake any better at around 30 mph
still on the slope.

30 mph should not be a problem for any bike.

Quoted message said:

Anyway, I find road bikes boring. I prefer the woods to the bike path.

Chaqu'on a son gout, I suppose. I don't much care for bike paths myself. I use my road bike to ride
on --- roads.

--

David L. Johnson

__o | The trouble with the rat race is that even if you win you're _`\(,_ | still a rat. --Lilly
Tomlin (_)/ (_) |

In article said:

Paul Bielec said:

I'm talking on going down a very steep hill on a small pavement stretch nearly at the end of a
XC trail. Right at the bottom of the hill, the trail goes back to the woods while the road
continues staight. I'm not convinced that a road bike would brake any better at around 30 mph
still on the slope.

30 mph should not be a problem for any bike.

Quoted message said:

Anyway, I find road bikes boring. I prefer the woods to the bike path.

Chaqu'on a son gout, I suppose. I don't much care for bike paths myself. I use my road bike to
ride on --- roads.

Uh, Hunh???

Next weekend you will be riding the local river trail ( MUP ) with several hundred of your
clubs members.

No such thing as ³Share² or obeying traffic laws or stop signs.

Beautful century ride however.

HAND

--
³Freedom Is a Light for Which Many Have Died in Darkness³

- Tomb of the unknown - American Revolution

"Paul Bielec" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:<[email hidden]>...

Quoted message said:

Anyway, I find road bikes boring. I prefer the woods to the bike path.

The highways are anything but boring. Make a few left turns.

-Luigi

Alan Hoyle wrote :

Quoted message said:

So, I've been test driving a few road bikes. While they have all seemed to be more comfortable and
seem more efficient, the brakes have invariably seemed to be far less powerful than I'm used to.
Is this universal for road bikes? Is there any way to make them stop faster?

I have a question-answer to this question. In theory, the "magnification ratio" (don't know a
technical term) from one type of brake to another should be about the same. Mechanical advantage,
that's it. This is to say that if you pull with x Newtons on the lever, you should get y Newtons
between the pads. If they're off, the pads will either not squeeze hard enough, or there won't be
enough clearnce between them and the wheel. Why does it seem that road bikes don't stop as well? For
example, I have no problem getting the rear wheel off the ground on my MTB (disc brake, v-brake, or
canti), whereas on my road bike, I can't do it without leaning way over the bars. This isn't a
question of tires - the front tire isn't skidding in either case. Could this be because the position
of the hand on a drop bar lever allows for less pulling force than on a flat bar? Though this might
be part of it, I rather doubt it, as I have a bike equipped with v-brakes and drop bars and don't
have much trouble getting its rear wheel off the street. Ideas? Matt

Matt J said:

Why does it seem that road bikes don't stop as well? For example, I have no problem getting the
rear wheel off the ground on my MTB (disc brake, v-brake, or canti), whereas on my road bike, I
can't do it without leaning way over the bars. This isn't a question of tires -

Quoted message said:

Ideas?

Let's all give more information regarding our brake ancedotes.

My ancedote: Test riding the road bike that I own now, downhill on a city street at probably 30 or
35 mph. The bike has 105 levers, calipers, and pads, and Jagwire cables and housings.

My hands were in the drops. This is an important note; it's much harder, IME, to apply big pressure
to the levers when on the hoods than when in the drops. I usually ride in the drops when I'm going
fast or in a dangerous situations, most likely for the comfort of having braking and shifting most
available to me in my time of need.

Already had my weight back, prepared for emergencies, when I saw a car pulling out from a side
street. I panic-braked with both hands, and shifted my weight back even more, to the limit. The rear
tire was unweighted, skidded, then in the air an inch or two before I was able to conciously
moderate my braking force to get the rear tire back on the ground and skidding.

I had more brake power than I could possibly have used; the only way to use more brake power would
be with additional weight on the rear -- a trailer would have sufficed. <G>

The verdict: 105 brakes, 210 pound rider, 30 mph, downhill, dry pavement, more than sufficient power
from brakes.

Quoted message said:

Matt

--
Rick Onanian

Alan Hoyle <[email hidden]> wrote in -"]news:[email hidden]- berlin.de:

Quoted message said:

I'm in the market for my first road bike. I currently use a '94 Trek 970 mountain bike with slicks
for commuting (3 miles) that I've upgraded several times over the years (notably XT V brakes,
Rockshox FSX carbon fork, and a few other things) but I've been doing some slightly longer rides
and have found it uncomfortable, particularly my hands get numb after a while.

So, I've been test driving a few road bikes. While they have all seemed to be more comfortable and
seem more efficient, the brakes have invariably seemed to be far less powerful than I'm used to.
Is this universal for road bikes? Is there any way to make them stop faster?

-alan

2 words. BAR ENDS. Cheap, better than road bars.

Mr. E. Mann said:

Quoted message said:

rides and have found it uncomfortable, particularly my hands get numb after a while.

Primarily because mountain bars do not allow the several hand positions that road bars do.

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

So, I've been test driving a few road bikes. While they have all seemed to be more comfortable
and seem more efficient, the brakes have invariably seemed to be far less powerful than I'm used
to. Is this universal for road bikes? Is there any way to make them stop faster?

Less powerful than your V-brakes? Possibly. But they have plenty of power to stop you. I typically
ride with my hands on the hoods a lot -- as do most road riders -- and can stop using only two
fingers of each hand on the levers, without going down to the drops. This includes hard stops,
except that the back brakes is not used for those, so it's just two fingers of my left hand.

I think you will find that you have enough strength in your hands to send yourself over the bars of
a road bike. That is more braking strength than you need.

Quoted message said:

2 words. BAR ENDS. Cheap, better than road bars.

No, not better. Road bars offer more positions for your hands, and allow you to get your body out of
the wind while still having control over the brakes and gears. Bar ends don't do that. To have
control of the brakes and shifters on a mountain bike, you need your hands on the grips.

--

David L. Johnson

__o | I don't believe you, you've got the whole damn thing all wrong. _`\(,_ | He's not the kind
you have to wind-up on Sundays. --Ian (_)/ (_) | Anderson

Mr. E. Mann said:

2 words. BAR ENDS. Cheap, better than road bars.

I (the OP) have bar ends on my mountain bike and I was still getting numb on shortish long rides
(~12 miles or so). My 3-mile commute was never a problem at all.

Last week, I spent way too much money on a road bike and and I'm loving it so far. I rode 22 miles
on Saturday morning and didn't have any of the problems I'd had on shorter road rides with my MTB.
The braking is different than the v-brakes, but I'm getting used to it very quickly. Heck, the whole
ride feel is very different, and I really like it so far...

-alan "thinking about a century" hoyle

--
Alan Hoyle - [email hidden] - alanhoyle.comalanhoyle.comOpen ↗ "I don't want the world, I just want your
half." -TMBG Get Horizontal, Play Ultimate.

David L. Johnson:

Quoted message said:

Mr. E. Mann said:

Quoted message said:

rides and have found it uncomfortable, particularly my hands get numb after a while.

Primarily because mountain bars do not allow the several hand positions that road bars do.

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

These come at costs, though, and become uncomfortable over time. See below.

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

2 words. BAR ENDS. Cheap, better than road bars.

No, not better. Road bars offer more positions for your hands, and allow you to get your body out
of the wind while still having control over the brakes and gears. Bar ends don't do that. To have
control of the brakes and shifters on a mountain bike, you need your hands on the grips.

Not true about drop bars. The only time your hands are in position for easy operation of the brakes
is when they are in the hoods, except when the brakes have extensions which allow operation on the
top of the bars. Even at the hoods the grip you can have on the brake levers don't allow as good
leverage as you can have in a straight bar. It's a pretty awkward setup, in the ergonomic sense,
which takes getting used to.

The hand positions on drop bars come at the cost of changing your body angle as well. The result is
that riding on the lowest part can only be done over short periods since it changes the weight taken
up by your hands, and your neck gets more strained looking at the road by the upper body being
positioned lower down.

Alan Hoyle said:

Mr. E. Mann said:

2 words. BAR ENDS. Cheap, better than road bars.

I (the OP) have bar ends on my mountain bike and I was still getting numb on shortish long rides
(~12 miles or so). My 3-mile commute was never a problem at all.

Last week, I spent way too much money on a road bike and and I'm loving it so far. I rode 22 miles
on Saturday morning and didn't have any of the problems I'd had on shorter road rides with my MTB.
The braking is different than the v-brakes, but I'm getting used to it very quickly. Heck, the
whole ride feel is very different, and I really like it so far...

-alan "thinking about a century" hoyle

Still think about moving your hands a lot, particularly your right hand, which stays at the shifter.

--
Bob M in CT Remove 'x.' to reply