First ride with clips and straps.

Well, I had exactly the opposite experience. I (personally)
hate the straps. They are a trap and should you fall will
not let go (not easily).

I also performed better with just bare pedals compared
to straps.

But when I got clip-less pedals then my performance
improved.

I recommend you go clip-less pedals and do not look back.
Straps are very old technology.

"Jacobe Hazzard" <[email hidden]> wrote in
message -"]news:[email hidden]-
e.rogers.com...

Quoted message said:

I saw some clips today for $6 and grabbed 'em. Wow. I
can't believe I

didn't

Quoted message said:

try theseooner!

I have some hurting muscles right now, but I wouldn't have
believed that there was anything that could make me go
much faster, not all the carbon fiber or titanium in the
world. So much more affordable than clipless, and still so
easy to get in and out of. I'm sold.

Sat, 20 Mar 2004 08:29:07 GMT,
<[email hidden]>, "Yuri Budilov"
<[email hidden]> concluded:

Quoted message said:

Straps are very old technology.

That just means they're proven to work. On long rides they
can be more easily adjusted for comfort than a clipless set-
up. For climbing they're an improvement over bare pedals.
People learning to use clipless pedals have all toppled when
they couldn't get un clipped. A loose cleat screw can trap
you. Clips and straps allow you to pedal more vigourously
while still wearing regular shoes. Keirin racers use them as
well as cleats to prevent pull outs.
--
zk

"Zoot Katz" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
"]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Sat, 20 Mar 2004 08:29:07 GMT, <nhT6c.114691$Wa.2369@news-
server.bigpond.net.au>, "Yuri Budilov"
<[email hidden]> concluded:

Quoted message said:

Straps are very old technology.

That just means they're proven to work. On long rides
they can be more easily adjusted for comfort than a
clipless set-up.

That would be helpful if it were true, since they're so much
less comfortable to begin with.

Quoted message said:

For climbing they're an improvement over bare pedals.

And bare pedals are an improvement over bare cranks...

Quoted message said:

People learning to use clipless pedals have all toppled
when they couldn't get un clipped.

Some do, it's a short learning curve, though. My wife
did the same w/ straps many years ago, still has a bad
elbow from it. I broke my ribs from getting a foot
trapped with straps.

Quoted message said:

A loose cleat screw can trap you.

A tight strap traps you easily and more frequently.

Quoted message said:

Clips and straps allow you to pedal more vigourously while
still wearing regular shoes.

I have lots of regular shoes. I wouldn't want to cycle in
any of them.

Quoted message said:

Keirin racers use them as well as cleats to prevent
pull outs.

Good to know if I take up Keirin racing.

Straps suck. Good riddance to them.

(Top-posting fixed)

Quoted message said:

"Jacobe Hazzard" <[email hidden]> wrote
in message

Quoted message said:

I saw some clips today for $6 and grabbed 'em. Wow. I
can't believe I fiber or titanium in the world. So much
more affordable than clipless, and

Clipless can be gotten pretty cheaply, although not $6.
Nashbar Special SPDs are $20 on sale often, and they
commonly have shoes for as much or less. I once got the same
pedals for $13 from their 'returned goods' section. Those
pedals are as easy to use as any other pedals on the market.

Yuri Budilov said:

Well, I had exactly the opposite experience. I (personally)
hate the straps. They are a trap and should you fall will
not let go (not easily).

They provide most of their advantage _without_ tightening
them that much. I rode for a couple years with clips &
straps, and I kept them loose enough to enter and exit
without adjusting. They worked except for pulling back at
the 6 o'clock position, until I started using shoes with
really aggressive treads -- at which point, I could apply
power all the way around the stroke (leg-muscles
permitting).

Quoted message said:

I recommend you go clip-less pedals and do not look back.
Straps are very old technology.

I do enjoy clipless more than I enjoyed clips & straps, but
functionally speaking, I found them nearly as good -- and
they sure are cheap.
--
Rick Onanian

In article <[email hidden]-
.rogers.com>, [email hidden] says...

Quoted message said:

I saw some clips today for $6 and grabbed 'em. Wow. I
can't believe I didn't try theseooner!

I have some hurting muscles right now, but I wouldn't have
believed that there was anything that could make me go
much faster, not all the carbon fiber or titanium in the
world. So much more affordable than clipless, and still so
easy to get in and out of. I'm sold.

Yep. Anything which helps keep your foot attached to the
pedal will help.

--
Dave Kerber Fight spam: remove the ns_ from the return
address before replying!

REAL programmers write self-modifying code.

In article <nhT6c.114691$Wa.2369@news-
server.bigpond.net.au>, [email hidden] says...

Quoted message said:

Well, I had exactly the opposite experience. I
(personally) hate the straps. They are a trap and should
you fall will not let go (not easily).

I would think they're easier to get out of than clipless. I
just yank my foot straight back and they're out.

Quoted message said:

I also performed better with just bare pedals compared
to straps.

Not me.

Quoted message said:

But when I got clip-less pedals then my performance
improved.

I recommend you go clip-less pedals and do not look back.
Straps are very old technology.

But a lot cheaper than clipless, and you can use
regular shoes.

....

--
Dave Kerber Fight spam: remove the ns_ from the return
address before replying!

REAL programmers write self-modifying code.

Sat, 20 Mar 2004 12:11:36 GMT, <YxW6c.47392$Cb.734410@attbi_s51>,
"Peter Cole" <[email hidden]> concluded:

Quoted message said:

Straps suck. Good riddance to them.

For six bucks, toe clips and straps improve your cycling
efficiency more than any equally priced accessory. In that
regard, they're a great value.
--
zk

Peter Cole said:

"Zoot Katz" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
"]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Clips and straps allow you to pedal more vigourously while
still wearing regular shoes.

I have lots of regular shoes. I wouldn't want to cycle in
any of them.

Sounds like you're a member of the tribe that always says "I
think I'll go for a bike ride. Let me change my shoes. And
pants. And shirt. Let me get my special sox. And gloves. And
hat. And shades. And sunscreen. And jacket. Let me fill my
water bottle with that special concoction. Oh, and good
thing I polished the bike yesterday, because otherwise I
couldn't ride until I polished it, and that would take until
after sundown, so I couldn't ride."

Last night I needed an ink cartridge for the printer. I put
on a jacket, used two safety pins to keep my jeans out of
the cranks, flicked on my generator light and rode to the
computer store. The toe clips worked great with my sneakers.

Sometimes it's worth changing shoes to ride your bike.
Sometimes it's not - it's just something in between you and
a bike ride.

For me, it's almost always the latter.

--
-------------+ Frank Krygowski [To reply, omit what's
between "at" and "cc"]

"frkrygow" <"frkrygow"@omitcc.ysu.edu> wrote in message
"]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Peter Cole said:

"Zoot Katz" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
"]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Clips and straps allow you to pedal more vigourously
while still wearing regular shoes.

I have lots of regular shoes. I wouldn't want to cycle
in any of them.

Sounds like you're a member of the tribe that always says
"I think I'll go for a bike ride. Let me change my shoes.
And pants. And shirt. Let me get my special sox. And
gloves. And hat. And shades. And sunscreen. And jacket.
Let me fill my water bottle with that special concoction.
Oh, and good thing I polished the bike yesterday, because
otherwise I couldn't ride until I polished it, and that
would take until after sundown, so I couldn't ride."

Frank, I think your imagination has run away with you again.

Quoted message said:

Last night I needed an ink cartridge for the printer. I
put on a jacket, used two safety pins to keep my jeans out
of the cranks, flicked on my generator light and rode to
the computer store. The toe clips worked great with my
sneakers.

Yesterday afternoon I felt thirsty. I put on a jacket,
gloves & SPD sneakers, tied my pants with a broccoli velcro,
rode to the package store on my errand bike, threw a 12 pack
of Harpoon in my rear rack (milk crate) and rode home. This
is typical, I do more errands by bike than by car.

I don't change clothes for errands, I do (& change bike
usually) for workouts.

Quoted message said:

Sometimes it's worth changing shoes to ride your bike.
Sometimes it's not - it's just something in between you
and a bike ride.

Since I don't wear shoes in the house, I have to put
something on my feet to go out anyway. If it's by bike, I
wear bike shoes. No biggie.

Straps still suck.

"Zoot Katz" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
"]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Sat, 20 Mar 2004 12:11:36 GMT,
<YxW6c.47392$Cb.734410@attbi_s51>, "Peter Cole"
<[email hidden]> concluded:

Quoted message said:

Straps suck. Good riddance to them.

For six bucks, toe clips and straps improve your cycling
efficiency more than any equally priced accessory. In that
regard, they're a great value.

Well for apples to apples, you've got to compare the price
of flat pedals plus clips & straps to clipless pedals, plus
plain shoes to cleated shoes.

I use either low-end Shimano (515, $31) or Wellgo (820,
$25), with $40-50-ish utility shoes for errands. Not a huge
premium. I used to leave my errand bike with flat pedals,
didn't like the pedal slip aspect, tried straps (used them a
lot before c/l) found that my reflexes were all screwed up,
& I couldn't switch back & forth w/o killing myself. Have
one pair of the flat/spd dual pedal, don't like those.
Easiest thing was just to give up flats & straps altogether
& put spd's on all bikes.

Peter Cole said:

Quoted message said:

For six bucks, toe clips and straps improve your cycling
efficiency more than any equally priced accessory. In
that regard, they're a great value.

Well for apples to apples, you've got to compare the price
of flat pedals plus clips & straps to clipless pedals, plus
plain shoes to cleated shoes.

...and the price of flat pedals is: free. If you've bought a
bike, it probably came with some. The OP certainly had them
already. If you need pedals, flat pedals can be found on
discarded bikes, again, free.

Clipless, the wonderful system that it is, just can't
compete monetarily -- flat pedals + clips & straps is nearly
free. A few cups of coffee cost more.
--
Rick Onanian

"Rick Onanian" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
"]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Peter Cole said:

Quoted message said:

For six bucks, toe clips and straps improve your
cycling efficiency more than any equally priced
accessory. In that regard, they're a great value.

Well for apples to apples, you've got to compare the
price of flat pedals

plus

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

clips & straps to clipless pedals, plus plain shoes to
cleated shoes.

...and the price of flat pedals is: free. If you've bought
a bike, it probably came with some. The OP certainly had
them already. If you need pedals, flat pedals can be found
on discarded bikes, again, free.

Clipless, the wonderful system that it is, just can't
compete monetarily -- flat pedals + clips & straps is
nearly free. A few cups of coffee cost more.

Bikes don't come with pedals that you'd want to use. Decent
flat pedals start at around the same price as entry level
clipless. Really nice flat pedals can get really expensive.
Clips and straps are similar.

Just because there are no clipless pedals as crappy as the
lowest grade flat pedals doesn't mean clipless is inherently
more expensive. You get what you pay for.

Peter Cole said:

"Rick Onanian" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
"]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Peter Cole said:

> For six bucks, toe clips and straps improve your
> cycling efficiency more than any equally priced
> accessory. In that regard, they're a great value.

Well for apples to apples, you've got to compare the
price of flat pedals

plus

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

clips & straps to clipless pedals, plus plain shoes to
cleated shoes.

...and the price of flat pedals is: free. If you've
bought a bike, it probably came with some. The OP
certainly had them already. If you need pedals, flat
pedals can be found on discarded bikes, again, free.

Clipless, the wonderful system that it is, just can't
compete monetarily -- flat pedals + clips & straps is
nearly free. A few cups of coffee cost more.

Bikes don't come with pedals that you'd want to use.
Decent flat pedals start at around the same price as entry
level clipless. Really nice flat pedals can get really
expensive. Clips and straps are similar.

What can the difference possibly be between crappy flat
pedals and nice flat pedals? I guess if the cheap ones were
really slippery -- by design -- that would make a
difference, but I've only seen pedals made of rubber bars or
metal with sharp teeth.

Quoted message said:

Just because there are no clipless pedals as crappy as the
lowest grade flat pedals doesn't mean clipless is
inherently more expensive. You get what you pay for.

And why do straps have to be tight? 1/2" of slop can't
possibly matter as far as difficulty in pulling the pedal
up, and it's easy to get out of them when you do
something stupid.

--
Cheers, Bev
66666666666666666666666666666666666666666666666666666666666
Vampireware; n, a project capable of sucking the lifeblood
out of anyone unfortunate enough to be assigned to it, which
never actually sees the light of day, but nonetheless
refuses to die. -- Trygve Lode

"Yuri Budilov" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
"]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Well, I had exactly the opposite experience. I
(personally) hate the

straps.

Quoted message said:

They are a trap and should you fall will not let go (not
easily).

I hear this so often, yet when I MTB ride with clipless
riders, they typically have a much more difficult time than
I getting in and out of pedals.

I suspect as I become a stronger road rider, I'll want
clipless, but for the time being, I'll stick with clips.

a.

Sun, 21 Mar 2004 00:15:10 GMT, <i857c.49701$1p.833251@attbi_s54>,

Peter Cole said:

Bikes don't come with pedals that you'd want to use. Decent
flat pedals start at around the same price as entry level
clipless. Really nice flat pedals can get really expensive.
Clips and straps are similar.

Just because there are no clipless pedals as crappy as the
lowest grade flat pedals doesn't mean clipless is
inherently more expensive. You get what you pay for.

Yes, clipless pedals are great. The cobblers loved 'em.
They're undoubtedly one of the hottest selling inventions in
the past 20 years. The explosion of after-market pedals is
taken to such extremes that pedals now aren't included with
the advertised price and weight of the high end bikes.

But, sofar they've all been inherently fiddlyfuk fad stuff
condemned to seasonal obsolescence.
--
zk

In article <[email hidden]>,

Rick Onanian said:

...and the price of flat pedals is: free. If you've bought
a bike, it probably came with some.

My new bike came with Shimano-compatible WTB clipless. It's
hardly unusual in that, surely?

ian

"The Real Bev" <[email hidden]> wrote

Quoted message said:

What can the difference possibly be between crappy flat
pedals and nice flat pedals? I guess if the cheap ones
were really slippery -- by design -- that would make a
difference, but I've only seen pedals made of rubber bars
or metal with sharp teeth.

Check out Harris Cyclery's selection, price ranges from $20-
110: sheldonbrown.compedals.htmlOpen ↗

Quoted message said:

And why do straps have to be tight? 1/2" of slop can't
possibly matter as far as difficulty in pulling the pedal
up, and it's easy to get out of them when you do
something stupid.

I never pull up on pedals, clips or clipless, that's a
really bad idea. Pedal retention is only to prevent
foot slips without having to waste energy pressing down
all the time.

"]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

"Yuri Budilov" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
"]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Well, I had exactly the opposite experience. I
(personally) hate the

straps.

Quoted message said:

They are a trap and should you fall will not let go (not
easily).

I hear this so often, yet when I MTB ride with clipless
riders, they typically have a much more difficult time
than I getting in and out of pedals.

Sometimes clipless pedals may be difficult to deliberately
release. The real issue with MTB's is whether the pedal
releases automatically in a crash. Mine (spd) always have.
When I first started with straps, they didn't. I found out
the hard way with broken ribs. Riding with straps is OK on
the road, off-road, it's a bad idea.

Peter Cole said:

"frkrygow" <"frkrygow"@omitcc.ysu.edu> wrote in message

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Sometimes it's worth changing shoes to ride your bike.
Sometimes it's not - it's just something in between you
and a bike ride.

Quoted message said:

Since I don't wear shoes in the house, I have to put
something on my feet to go out anyway. If it's by bike, I
wear bike shoes. No biggie.

I also don't wear shoes in the house, so whenever I leave
I'm putting some on. Wearing shoes in the house (to me)
would be like wearing shoes to bed.

Quoted message said:

Straps still suck.

When I started biking again two years ago I was ecstatic to
find the clipless pedals. I *loathe* straps. I would expand
on how much I detest them, but it looks like the sun will be
coming up soon, so I'm going to go ride my bike. <G>

--
Dane Jackson - z u v e m b i @ u n i x b i g o t s . o r g
Space is big. You just won't believe how vastly, hugely, mind-
bogglingly big it is. I mean, you may think it's a long way
down the road to the drug store, but that's just peanuts to
space. -- The Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy