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First attempts at bread

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General fitness, health and nutrition
Published
18 November 2007
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19 November 2007
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Peter
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  1. Peter said:


    <sf> wrote in message news:[email hidden]...

    Quoted message said:

    On Sat, 17 Nov 2007 21:32:28 -0500, "Peter" <[email hidden]> wrote:

    You might like to give this recipe a try sometime. It's very easy.
    http://www.breadworld.com/recipe.aspx?id=325&IsPrivateID=true

    Perhaps I didn't let it sit long enough then, but the warm oven method
    seemed to work. Thanks for the recipe.


    No problem and you're very welcome. That is the Fleischmann's Yeast
    recipe site. Poke around it. You might find something that tickles
    your fancy. I like their English Muffin Bread recipe.
    http://www.breadworld.com/Recipe.aspx?id=140

    --
    See return address to reply by email
    remove the smiley face first

  2. "Cshenk" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
    news:[email hidden]...

    Quoted message said:


    "JoeSpareBedroom" wrote

    Quoted message said:

    "Cshenk" wrote

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    >>> I was annoyed so I used 2 packets of yeast :-) Also I turned my
    >>> oven on

    (grin). Won't fix it. The yeast has to be in proportion to the salt and
    sugar.

    I agree with your other comments, but how do you explain recipes that use
    no salt or sugar, and work beautifully?

    Well Joe, you are one up on me there! I am not aware of any yeast breads
    that work that way. Baking soda ones maybe but not yeast ones.

    Got a sample perchance? I'd like to see what one like that would look
    like.

    Got a fax machine?

  3. "Cshenk" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
    news:[email hidden]...

    Quoted message said:


    "Peter"

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    > I was annoyed so I used 2 packets of yeast :-) Also I turned my oven
    > on

    (grin). Won't fix it. The yeast has to be in proportion to the salt and
    sugar.

    Except that it did work :-) The second package may not have helped any, but
    my end result was a decent loaf of bread.

  4. On Sun, 18 Nov 2007 12:29:41 -0800, "Cshenk" <[email hidden]>

    Quoted message said:


    "JoeSpareBedroom" wrote

    Quoted message said:

    "Cshenk" wrote

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    >>> I was annoyed so I used 2 packets of yeast :-) Also I turned my oven
    >>> on

    (grin). Won't fix it. The yeast has to be in proportion to the salt and
    sugar.

    I agree with your other comments, but how do you explain recipes that use
    no salt or sugar, and work beautifully?

    Well Joe, you are one up on me there! I am not aware of any yeast breads
    that work that way. Baking soda ones maybe but not yeast ones.

    Got a sample perchance? I'd like to see what one like that would look like.

    Go here:

    http://www.theartisan.net/bredfrm.htm

    ....and look up Pane Toscano Recipe #1.

    Although it is quite common and most usual for me to include salt in
    my breads, there is a traditional Tuscan bread that does not.

    Here is the recipe from The Artisan, a fine, fine source for bread
    Italian bread recipes. I'll pick up again in my own discourse at the
    end of the recipe

    **************
    Pane Toscano - First Recipe

    (Tuscan Bread)

    Translated and adapted from Pane e Roba Dolce by the Sorelli Simili.
    According to the Similli sisters, this bread can be made from the
    poorest of ingredients, and does not even need salt. Note that it is
    important to mix and knead this dough as little as possible, or risk
    forming too strong a gluten which will, in turn, work against the
    taste and aroma of the bread.

    Ingredients - Starter - Stage I
    3/4 Tsp. Yeast - active dry or 3/10th of a small cake yeast (5
    g)
    3/4 Cup Water - (180 ml)
    2 1/4 Cups Flour - unbleached-all purpose (300 g)

    Dissolve the yeast in 3/4 cup water and allow it to stand for
    approximately 5-10 minutes. Add the unbleached all-purpose flour (2
    1/4 cups), and mix until the ingredients are amalgamated, being
    careful not to over mix. Cover the leaven and allow it to remain at
    room temperature for 20-24 hours.

    Ingredients - Starter - Stage II
    3/8 Cup Water (50 ml)
    All Starter From Above
    3/4 Cup Flour - all purpose unbleached (100 g)

    Loosen the starter from above by adding 3/8 cup water and mixing it
    gently. Add the unbleached all-purpose flour (3/4 cup), and continue
    to mix until the ingredients are amalgamated, being careful not to
    over mix. Cover the starter and allow it to remain at room
    temperature for 20-24 hours.

    Dough:
    1/4 Tsp. Yeast - active dry or 1/10th of a small cake yeast (2
    g)
    3/4 Cup Water - warm (180 ml)
    All Starter From above
    1 3/4 Cups + 2 Tbl. Flour - unbleached-all purpose (250 g)

    Procedure

    Dissolve the yeast in 3/4 cup water and allow it to stand for
    approximately 5-10 minutes. Add the starter from above and loosen it
    by gently mixing the ingredients until they are amalgamated. The
    mixture will have the consistency of porridge. Add the unbleached
    all-purpose flour (1 3/4 cups plus 2 tablespoons), and gently knead
    until a smooth dough is obtained.

    Dust a linen or cotton towel with flour. Transfer the dough to a
    lightly floured work surface. Gently flatten the dough into a large
    circle. Using your thumbs as a guide, lift the dough from the top and
    carefully roll it toward you into a fat cylinder. Place the dough
    seam side down on the floured towel. Dust the top of the dough with
    flour and wrap the towel around the dough as if you were wrapping a
    package.>Allow the dough to rise for at least 1 1/2 hours. The dough
    is ready to be baked when the surface is covered with cracks and gaps.
    As the dough is rising, place a baking stone in the oven and set the
    temperature to 425 F. Allow the oven to heat for 30 minutes.

    Unwrap the towel. Place your hand and forearm beside the dough
    lengthwise. Use the towel to turn the dough onto your hand and
    forearm. Ease the dough back onto a lightly floured sheet of parchment
    paper. Slide a baker’s peel beneath the parchment paper. Slide the
    parchment paper from the peel onto the baking stone. Bake at 425 F
    for 10 minutes. Lower the temperature to 350 F for an additional 30-40
    minutes.

    Remove the bread from the oven and allow it to cool on a rack.
    ********************************

    Read up on the tradition here:

    http://query.nytimes.com/gst/fullpage.html?sec=travel&res=9B0CE2DF143BF934A25753C1A964948260

    It is very, very rare for me to use any sort of sugar or sweetening
    agent in the breads I make. Most consist of flours/grains, water and
    salt. I do not usually even use commercial yeast, as I prefer
    sourdough starter.

    Boron

  5. "Cshenk" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
    news:[email hidden]...

    Quoted message said:


    "JoeSpareBedroom" wrote

    Quoted message said:

    "Cshenk" wrote

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    >>> I was annoyed so I used 2 packets of yeast :-) Also I turned my
    >>> oven on

    (grin). Won't fix it. The yeast has to be in proportion to the salt and
    sugar.

    I agree with your other comments, but how do you explain recipes that use
    no salt or sugar, and work beautifully?

    Well Joe, you are one up on me there! I am not aware of any yeast breads
    that work that way. Baking soda ones maybe but not yeast ones.

    Got a sample perchance? I'd like to see what one like that would look
    like.

    For my own end, I mostly center on simpler breadmachine types, mostly
    white but sometimes i add some rye or wheat as a portion of the flour.

    To be honest if your entire breadmaking experience is with a machine you
    don't really have the experience to be giving someone advice.

    Bread can be made entirely by feel, very little measurement involved. Yeast
    and salt can be measured by hand. The water can be measured in the vessel.
    The flour can just be scooped and added until it makes dough. You do not
    have to add gluten to make good whole wheat bread. You will have to accept
    that it's not going to be fluffy grocery store bread. It'll be a dense,
    heavy bread like it's supposed to be. You do not have to use bread flour.
    You will have to accept that it won't be fluffy grocery store bread.

    Bread has been made by hand for several thousand years now. Fluffy, soft
    grocery store bread has only been around a few decades.

    Ms P

  6. "Peter"

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    When it says "1 packet active dry yeast", I assume the packets are
    universal sizes? The packets I purchased are 8 grams. It was also not

    Yes.

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    enough liquid to properly turn into a dough, so I had to add another 1/3
    cup or so. Also, I made whole wheat (using 2 cups white, 2 cups whole
    wheat flower)

    Smile, mistake 1 and 2.

    Bread recipes are pretty specific. While you can and should vary the liquid
    amounts to match conditions, it's not by that much. Mistake 2 was trying
    wheat bread before getting a feeling with a simpler white.
    Wheat is harder to get a good rise from. You can fix this though by adding
    'gluten' sold where the yeast is in small boxes.

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    I was annoyed so I used 2 packets of yeast :-) Also I turned my oven
    on

    (grin). Won't fix it. The yeast has to be in proportion to the salt and
    sugar.

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    on the dense side compared to the cheap store bought whole wheat breads.

    They add gluten.

    I'd add a recipe but I'm the type who uses a breadmaker machine. There are
    slight differences and I don't want to lead you astray.

  7. "JoeSpareBedroom" wrote

    Quoted message said:

    "Cshenk" wrote

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    >> I was annoyed so I used 2 packets of yeast :-) Also I turned my oven
    >> on

    (grin). Won't fix it. The yeast has to be in proportion to the salt and
    sugar.

    I agree with your other comments, but how do you explain recipes that use
    no salt or sugar, and work beautifully?

    Well Joe, you are one up on me there! I am not aware of any yeast breads
    that work that way. Baking soda ones maybe but not yeast ones.

    Got a sample perchance? I'd like to see what one like that would look like.

    For my own end, I mostly center on simpler breadmachine types, mostly white
    but sometimes i add some rye or wheat as a portion of the flour.

  8. Sheldon said:
    The Kook said:

    On Sun, 18 Nov 2007 13:25:51 GMT, "JoeSpareBedroom"

    Quoted message said:

    "Peter" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
    news:[email hidden]...
    > "JoeSpareBedroom" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
    > news:[email hidden]...
    >> "Peter" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
    >> news:[email hidden]...
    >>> I tried it twice and the first time it did not rise
    >>> I used the recipe in my cuisinart manual, the same as from their website
    >>> http://cuisinart.com/recipes/recipe.php?recipe_id=337
    >>> When it says "1 packet active dry yeast", I assume the packets are
    >>> universal sizes? �The packets I purchased are 8 grams. �It was also not
    >>> enough liquid to properly turn into a dough, so I had to add another 1/3
    >>> cup or so. �Also, I made whole wheat (using 2 cups white, 2 cups whole
    >>> wheat flower)
    >>> The first batch did not rise at all. � I let the yeast soak in the warm
    >>> water with the sugar until it foamed up per directions, about 5-10 min.
    >>> I'm not sure the place I put it was warm enough? �It's not terribly warm
    >>> in my home, maybe 19C in my kitchen.
    >>> So I chucked the dough and tried again
    >>> I was annoyed so I used 2 packets of yeast :-) � Also I turned my oven
    >>> on for 20 seconds or so to get it warm inside and then let the bread
    >>> rise in there. �It was about 26C inside the oven. �It rose up just fine.
    >>> I punched it down and it rose again but not a whole lot.
    >>> My bread came out OK, edible and tastes ok with some butter, maybe a bit
    >>> on the dense side compared to the cheap store bought whole wheat breads.
    >>> So, what went wrong the first time? temp? tips for future bread making?
    >>> a tastier yet easy recipe you suggest?
    >> Are you sure the yeast isn't past the expiration date on the package, and
    >> that it hasn't been stored in some odd way, exposed to extreme heat or
    >> something?
    > Isn't that what the proofing is for in the warm water?
    Please: �Was your yeast past its expiration date?
    Thank you.


    And how hot was the warm water? �Anything much over 115�F will kill
    the yeast.

    I know you're making a valiant attempt at displaying your
    smartipantsness, but instead you displayed that you're ignorant... the
    OP's description of the yeast foaming up indicates that the yeast was
    properly proofed. If you had even a modicum of bread baking
    intelligence (which you don't) you'd have asked to see the recipe...
    the entire recipe... there are a number of ways by which perfectly
    good yeast can be serverely damaged or throughly killed by an
    incorrect recipe regardless it passed the proofing test. Without
    seeing the entire recipe (including procedure) no one can offer any
    more than wild speculation... odds are the bread failed for some
    reason totally unrelated to yeast quality because the yeast indeed
    proofed.

    And when will you ever learn how to trim posts and neaten the
    attributions... I bet you never change your undies, smelly slob!

    Sheldon

    Did you get a child to write this for you? Did you let him out of your
    house when he was done?

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