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Firetrails 50 mile report

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General fitness, health and nutrition
Published
10 October 2004
Last activity
21 October 2004
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Dan Stumpus
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  1. I entered this race to get revenge - the last ultra I ran (Bulldog 50k) had
    its course sabotaged by some jerk, and I went off with the lead pack to run
    an extra 4 or 5 miles.

    The [censored] Collins Firetrails 50 miler had several things in its favor. It
    was up north of L.A., so I could sample the famous running trails above the
    San Francisco Bay, and get an introduction to a very tough running
    community. Its race director is the legendary Ann Trason, holder of just
    about every ultra course record she wants to set. There is an aid station
    every 3-4 miles-a one-water-bottle course. And best of all, it is a
    challenging race, with 7820 feet of climb on an out-and-back route.

    The race started at dawn, under clear skies. Down in LA, I usually finish
    in the top 10%, so I tend to go out with about 20% of the field in front of
    me, and work my way up throughout the race. Things are different in the bay
    area - I found myself somewhere about 35 place after the first mile. Must
    be something wrong, all these people can't be faster than me, can they? The
    short answer is, as Dorothy said: "Toto, I've a feeling we're not in Kansas
    anymore."

    So I decided to run by effort, and used my new heart rate monitor/altimeter.
    My goal was to finish in around 9 hours, which would be my longest race to
    date. I had a really tough time keeping my heart rate down to my target of
    140. For the first 10 miles I was so fresh that a 150 pulse felt like an
    easy cruise. I wished I could bottle that feeling and keep it going for the
    next 8 hours!

    The race is a constant series of generally mild (200-400 ft/mile) ups and
    downs. Although I like to climb, my strategy was to take it easy on the
    ascents (where you can burn up all your glycogen if you're not careful), and
    make time on the downs, flats and easy inclines. So the gearbox gets quite
    a workout: I'd chug up or walk a steep incline at 15 min/mile, then shift
    to a 7:00 pace for a mile or two of downhill, then settle back to a 9 or 10
    minute per mile jog on a flat section for a bit. Nearly all the course was
    on dirt.

    Aid station strategy is important. With 14 aid stations, I needed to keep
    from dawdling: an unfocused minute or two per station adds up in a hurry.
    I decided to carry all my food (a dozen homemade chocolate chip cookies and
    a bottle of Ensure). I would eat only when walking up steep hills to save
    time. Later I realized that I could munch on a cookie while running on
    smooth road or trail without any problem. As I ran up to each aid station,
    I unscrewed the cap from my water bottle and had the volunteers quickly
    fill it up, a la Nascar. I was in and out in 15 seconds.

    I took a Succeed salt cap every hour, or if my stomach was sloshing
    (indicating low salt). I drank nothing but Cytomax and Gu2O, at about 30
    oz/hour in the cool morning, and about 50 oz/hr toward the end of the race
    under the sun. I ate something (half bottle of ensure, or a cookie) every
    hour at first, then every half -hour toward the end of the race, when I
    became ravenous.

    During the first third of the race, several people would race me - working
    hard to catch me after my head start out of the aid stations, and trying to
    stay ahead of me on the climbs. These guys were all breathing noticeably
    harder than me, and I knew it was just a matter of time until I dropped
    them. Soon I was alone, and my favorite part of the race began - catching
    people ahead of me. A volunteer runner (18:20 at Western States!) was
    double checking the markings on the trail, and we ended up running together
    and chatting for about 4 miles as he did his job.

    I hit the 26 mile turn-around at 4:17. I was starting to get tired, and the
    climbs were getting tougher. Hills I could easily jog up in the first 15
    miles caused my quads to load up, and I had to jog-walk up. If you don't
    listen to your quads, you're going to be dead meat after mile 40. I ran the
    next 7 or 8 miles with a couple of guys, and we discussed the world at
    large, with many observations on the fair sex. At about 37 miles, I noticed
    a couple of guys trying to catch me. Although I was feeling pretty wiped
    out by now, it was time to go to work. I picked it up on a long downgrade,
    and started feeling good. In fact, I felt the best I felt all race - yes,
    folks, the mythical runner's high. Then I started passing people on a long
    flat section in a leafy canyon and got a boost from each one. This Xanadu
    lasted for about 4 miles. The next long climb brought me out of my reverie,
    as I realized that my uphill legs were nearly spent. I needed to conserve
    every bit of energy to finish.

    It was getting really tough. I entered a kind of tunnel-vision,
    echo-chamber state: Count down the miles. Keep running. Sure it hurts,
    but you'll feel great when it's over. Yeah, that guy just blasted by you,
    but he's 25 and you've passed a dozen folks yourself. Geez, every single
    downhill stride hurts. Don't trip - concentrate on the trail.

    It was very tough to run up even the slightest grades. And the flats didn't
    feel too good either. My legs were getting tighter and tighter. Finally, I
    could see the finish a couple of miles around the lake in the glistening
    afternoon sun. I passed a fellow 50 year old, then another. Shave the
    curves. Run *all* the hills. One mile. One half mile. One quarter mile.
    The finish line! I sprinted the last hundred yards and felt instantly
    relieved, grateful, and satisfied.

    Time, 9:05, 20-something th place, 3rd in the 50's. The Picnic at the
    finish had the three B's: Burgers, Beer, and Brownies. Best of all,
    dozens of cheerfully burbling runners, many of whom I met on the course. I
    made many new acquaintances. I'm coming back up here for the Quad Dipsea,
    for sure.

  2. << I entered this race to get revenge - the last ultra I ran (Bulldog 50k) >>

    Superkewl!
    I hope you won!
    But at least,
    You ran!

    _______
    Blog, or dog? Who knows. But if you see my lost pup, please ping me!
    <A
    HREF="http://journals.aol.com/virginiaz/DreamingofLeonardo">http://journal
    s.aol.com/virginiaz/DreamingofLeonardo</A>

  3. << Its race director is the legendary Ann Trason, holder of just
    about every ultra course record she wants to set. >>

    Kewl!

    << limb on an out-and-back route. >>

    Yeah, I know that route. Interesting, indeed.

    << The
    short answer is, as Dorothy said: "Toto, I've a feeling we're not in Kansas
    anymore." >>

    Nope.
    Seen my pup?

    << I wished I could bottle that feeling and keep it going for the
    next 8 hours! >>

    Know what you mean, perhaps 5 will do>

    <<
    Aid station strategy is important. >>

    Wise words!'

    << Later I realized that I could munch on a cookie >>

    Brilliant strategy!

    << Succeed >>

    You bet!

    << double checking the markings on the trail >>

    Excellent!

    << the mythical runner's high >>

    Myth? Fact.
    Cause, uncertain, some say.
    But real.

    << I entered a kind of tunnel-vision,
    echo-chamber state >>

    Right on, uh hm.

    << The finish line! I sprinted the last hundred yards and felt instantly
    relieved, grateful, and satisfied. >>

    Way to go!
    Congrats!
    Seen those winged rats?

    << Quad Dipsea >>

    What's that?

    _______
    Blog, or dog? Who knows. But if you see my lost pup, please ping me!
    <A
    HREF="http://journals.aol.com/virginiaz/DreamingofLeonardo">http://journal
    s.aol.com/virginiaz/DreamingofLeonardo</A>

  4. "Brilliant One" <[email hidden]> wrote

    Quoted message said:

    << limb on an out-and-back route. >>

    Yeah, I know that route. Interesting, indeed.

    Hey, this is not that kind of ng, what with TBR on sabbatical...

    Quoted message said:

    Seen my pup?

    I thought, maybe, but ruled it out.

    Quoted message said:

    << Later I realized that I could munch on a cookie >>

    Brilliant strategy!

    <blush>

    Quoted message said:

    << double checking the markings on the trail >>

    Excellent!

    The antithesis of the last race...

    Quoted message said:

    Way to go!
    Congrats!

    Thanks.

    Quoted message said:

    Seen those winged rats?

    Nope, just winged dinosaurs.

    Quoted message said:

    << Quad Dipsea >>

    What's that?

    A 28 mile out & back & out & back trail race w/9200' of climb, and 2400
    steps.

  5. "Dan Stumpus" <[email hidden]> wrote in message

    Quoted message said:

    I entered this race to get revenge - the last ultra I ran (Bulldog 50k) had
    its course sabotaged by some jerk, and I went off with the lead pack to
    run
    an extra 4 or 5 miles.


    <snip>

    Excellent report, Dan. Congratulations and thanks for
    the good read.

    cheers,
    --
    David (in Hamilton ON)
    www.absolutelyaccurate.com
    www.allfalldown.org

  6. << > << Later I realized that I could munch on a cookie >>

    Quoted message said:


    Brilliant strategy!

    <blush>

    Quoted message said:

    << double checking the markings on the trail >>

    Excellent>>

    [Hey!]
    Double-!

    How do the trail markings look?
    Good, I hope!

    _______
    Blog, or dog? Who knows. But if you see my lost pup, please ping me!
    <A
    HREF="http://journals.aol.com/virginiaz/DreamingofLeonardo">http://journal
    s.aol.com/virginiaz/DreamingofLeonardo</A>

  7. << <blush>

    Quoted message said:

    << double checking the markings on the trail >>

    Excellent!

    The antithesis of the last race...

    Quoted message said:

    Way to go!
    Congrats!

    Thanks.

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    Antithesis?
    Reverse,
    Or inverse?
    Or twice-told
    Modification,
    Fancy [re]verb
    Or just more nouns?

    Riddle:
    What's itchy
    And wet,
    And red
    All over?

    _______
    Blog, or dog? Who knows. But if you see my lost pup, please ping me!
    <A
    HREF="http://journals.aol.com/virginiaz/DreamingofLeonardo">http://journal
    s.aol.com/virginiaz/DreamingofLeonardo</A>

  8. << > Seen those winged rats?

    Nope, just winged dinosaurs.

    Quoted message said:

    << Quad Dipsea >>

    What's that?

    A 28 mile out & back & out & back trail race w/9200' of climb, and 2400
    steps.>>

    Dino! Birds!
    Wings aflight!

    ~ waves ~

    _______
    Blog, or dog? Who knows. But if you see my lost pup, please ping me!
    <A
    HREF="http://journals.aol.com/virginiaz/DreamingofLeonardo">http://journal
    s.aol.com/virginiaz/DreamingofLeonardo</A>

  9. Dan Stumpus said:


    The [censored] Collins Firetrails 50 miler had several things in its favor.

    Nice race and report, Dan. Thanks for sharing.

    Quoted message said:

    Things are different in the bay
    area - I found myself somewhere about 35 place after the first mile. Must
    be something wrong, all these people can't be faster than me, can they? The
    short answer is, as Dorothy said: "Toto, I've a feeling we're not in Kansas
    anymore."

    So the rumors are true? 😉

    Quoted message said:


    So I decided to run by effort, and used my new heart rate monitor/altimeter.

    What kind did you get? Suunto or Polar or ... ?
    When my batteries died in July, I had decided to put off getting the
    Polar S625x until after the fall races, which also corresponded to when
    some of the online places were first starting to offer them in US.

    Quoted message said:


    Time, 9:05, 20-something th place, 3rd in the 50's.

    Great race.

    Quoted message said:

    I'm coming back up here for the Quad Dipsea,
    for sure.


    I've heard that's a popular "fun" run! Good luck. I think Mike C. may
    have done it 3 yrs ago, iirc?

    Dot

    --
    "So many people get stuck in the routine of life that their dreams waste
    away. This is about living the dream." - Cave Dog

  10. << short answer is, as Dorothy said: "Toto, I've a feeling we're not in Kansas

    Quoted message said:

    anymore."

    So the rumors are true? 😉 >>

    Why?
    What have you heard?

    _______
    Blog, or dog? Who knows. But if you see my lost pup, please ping me!
    <A
    HREF="http://journals.aol.com/virginiaz/DreamingofLeonardo">http://journal
    s.aol.com/virginiaz/DreamingofLeonardo</A>

  11. Dan Stumpus wrote in message ...

    Quoted message said:

    I entered this race to get revenge - the last ultra I ran (Bulldog 50k) had
    its course sabotaged by some jerk, and I went off with the lead pack to run
    an extra 4 or 5 miles.

    Dan, j/w, did they find and hang that guy?

    Quoted message said:

    ...................
    So I decided to run by effort, and used my new heart rate


    monitor/altimeter.

    Quoted message said:

    My goal was to finish in around 9 hours, which would be my longest race to
    date. I had a really tough time keeping my heart rate down to my target of
    140. For the first 10 miles I was so fresh that a 150 pulse felt like an
    easy cruise. I wished I could bottle that feeling and keep it going for


    the

    Quoted message said:

    next 8 hours!

    Yes, like Dot I'd like to know what model you got of HRM/ALT. Also how did
    you come up with your target HR for 50 miles? When I did my 50k I more or
    less just used mine to keep far enough under LT to feel safe, but didn't
    know how to gauge it otherwise.

    Quoted message said:

    ....................
    Aid station strategy is important. With 14 aid stations, I needed to keep
    from dawdling: an unfocused minute or two per station adds up in a hurry.
    I decided to carry all my food (a dozen homemade chocolate chip cookies and
    a bottle of Ensure). I would eat only when walking up steep hills to save
    time. Later I realized that I could munch on a cookie while running on
    smooth road or trail without any problem. As I ran up to each aid station,
    I unscrewed the cap from my water bottle and had the volunteers quickly
    fill it up, a la Nascar. I was in and out in 15 seconds.

    Exactly what I did in my 50k. Usually the volunteers were usually quick.

    Quoted message said:


    I took a Succeed salt cap every hour, or if my stomach was sloshing
    (indicating low salt). I drank nothing but Cytomax and Gu2O, at about 30
    oz/hour in the cool morning, and about 50 oz/hr toward the end of the race
    under the sun. I ate something (half bottle of ensure, or a cookie) every
    hour at first, then every half -hour toward the end of the race, when I
    became ravenous.

    50 oz / hour? What's your secret to being able to absorb that much?

    Quoted message said:

    .......................
    It was getting really tough. I entered a kind of tunnel-vision,
    echo-chamber state: Count down the miles. Keep running. Sure it hurts,
    but you'll feel great when it's over. Yeah, that guy just blasted by you,
    but he's 25 and you've passed a dozen folks yourself. Geez, every single
    downhill stride hurts. Don't trip - concentrate on the trail.

    lol reading that gives me flashbacks to the ~40th mile of my 1st 50 miler
    when my legs were so loaded that I was afraid if I fell down I wouldn't be
    able to get back up again; I couldn't bend my leg more than about 110deg at
    that point. Looking back I'm lucky that I didn't get a DVT in one of my
    legs.

    Quoted message said:

    .............
    The finish line! I sprinted the last hundred yards and felt instantly
    relieved, grateful, and satisfied.

    Time, 9:05, 20-something th place, 3rd in the 50's. The Picnic at the
    finish had the three B's: Burgers, Beer, and Brownies. Best of all,
    dozens of cheerfully burbling runners, many of whom I met on the course. I
    made many new acquaintances. I'm coming back up here for the Quad Dipsea,
    for sure.

    Damn you sprinted! Or was it a slow motion sprint? Really though, great
    race! I enjoyed reading about it, and I always marvel at your training logs
    also. Thanks.

    - Tony

  12. "Dot" <dot.h@#duh?att.net> wrote

    Quoted message said:

    Nice race and report, Dan. Thanks for sharing.

    You're vewwwwy welcome.

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    Things are different in the bay
    area - I found myself somewhere about 35 place after the first mile.


    Must

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    be something wrong, all these people can't be faster than me, can they?


    The

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    short answer is, as Dorothy said: "Toto, I've a feeling we're not in


    Kansas

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    anymore."

    So the rumors are true? 😉

    The rumors are true. While twice as many guys finished ahead of me, about 3
    times as many women did -- tough ladies out there. One good runner
    expressed his frustration after the race: You know, every piddly little
    race out here has 3 or 4 top 10 finishers from Western States show up!

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    So I decided to run by effort, and used my new heart rate


    monitor/altimeter.

    Quoted message said:


    What kind did you get? Suunto or Polar or ... ?
    When my batteries died in July, I had decided to put off getting the
    Polar S625x until after the fall races, which also corresponded to when
    some of the online places were first starting to offer them in US.

    Polar AXN300 -- it has an altimiter, and records net climb and descent.
    Unfortunately, it can't upload to a PC. I run hilly courses and want to
    quantify the amount of climbing I do. Unfortunately, the heartbeat sensor
    slipped down to my waist on a long downhill (I've got to attach a kind of
    "bra strap" to it), and when I put it back in position, the watch couldn't
    get a pulse. The HRM part only worked for the first couple of hours. I
    haven't tested it since, and will probably return it. In addition, the
    watch has an un-smooth bottom that removed a 1 square cm area of skin from
    the back of my wrist over the 9 hours. It needs a little piece of athletic
    tape to smooth out the back of the watch.

    I like the concept of the S625x, (it's only about $100 more than the
    AXN300), and may get it.

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    Time, 9:05, 20-something th place, 3rd in the 50's.

    Great race.

    Thanks. These things are a peak experience. They're addicting...

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    I'm coming back up here for the Quad Dipsea,
    for sure.


    I've heard that's a popular "fun" run! Good luck. I think Mike C. may
    have done it 3 yrs ago, iirc?

    Don't know him, but it is one tough race, what with all the steps.

    -- Dan

  13. << Great race.

    Thanks. These things are a peak experience. They're addicting... >>

    You might want to try:
    Usenet Readers Anon.
    Just stand up and say,
    Yes, indeed,
    You have a problem.

    _______
    Blog, or dog? Who knows. But if you see my lost pup, please ping me!
    <A
    HREF="http://journals.aol.com/virginiaz/DreamingofLeonardo">http://journal
    s.aol.com/virginiaz/DreamingofLeonardo</A>

  14. Quoted message said:

    From: "Dan Stumpus"

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    I'm coming back up here for the Quad Dipsea,
    for sure.


    I've heard that's a popular "fun" run! Good luck. I think Mike C. may
    have done it 3 yrs ago, iirc?

    Quoted message said:

    Don't know him, but it is one tough race, what with all the steps.

    -- Dan

    Also another long report archived somewhere...

    Indeed it is a tough race, lots and lots and lots of stairs, plus lots of
    single track, ups and downs, mud, etc. etc.

    But I'll probably be there this year as well, using this little race I'm doing
    this Saturday as a warmup...

    Dan, great report and well done. The Bay Area is certainly a hot bed of
    endurance athletes. You'll have to give the Ohlone 50k a try one year as well.

    Mike C

  15. "Mike Conway" <[email hidden]> wrote

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    > I'm coming back up here for the Quad Dipsea, for sure.

    Quoted message said:

    Indeed it is a tough race, lots and lots and lots of stairs, plus lots of
    single track, ups and downs, mud, etc. etc.

    Quoted message said:

    But I'll probably be there this year as well, using this little race I'm


    doing

    Quoted message said:

    this Saturday as a warmup...

    My check is in the mail...see you there...

    Quoted message said:

    Dan, great report and well done. The Bay Area is certainly a hot bed of
    endurance athletes. You'll have to give the Ohlone 50k a try one year as


    well.

    Thanks, and now that I realize that I can drive up on one tank from LA, I
    may become a regular up there.

    -- Dan

  16. "Tony" <qtrader2@(remove)hotmail.com> wrote

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    I entered this race to get revenge - the last ultra I ran (Bulldog 50k)


    had

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    its course sabotaged by some jerk, and I went off with the lead pack to


    run

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    an extra 4 or 5 miles.

    Quoted message said:

    Dan, j/w, did they find and hang that guy?

    No, but the RD did see people milling around right after they marked that
    part of the course the evening before the race...

    Quoted message said:

    Yes, like Dot I'd like to know what model you got of HRM/ALT. Also how


    did

    Quoted message said:

    you come up with your target HR for 50 miles? When I did my 50k I more or
    less just used mine to keep far enough under LT to feel safe, but didn't
    know how to gauge it otherwise.

    Polar AXN300. Unfortunately, the HR signal got lost 2 hours in to the race
    and I couldn't get it going again. Infant mortality?

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    As I ran up to each aid station,
    I unscrewed the cap from my water bottle and had the volunteers quickly
    fill it up, a la Nascar. I was in and out in 15 seconds.

    Quoted message said:

    Exactly what I did in my 50k. Usually the volunteers were usually quick.

    I felt a bit guilty saying "quick, quick, quick" as they poured...but
    usually remembered to thank them on the way out.

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    I took a Succeed salt cap every hour, or if my stomach was sloshing
    (indicating low salt). I drank nothing but Cytomax and Gu2O, at about 30
    oz/hour in the cool morning, and about 50 oz/hr toward the end of the


    race

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    under the sun. I ate something (half bottle of ensure, or a cookie)


    every

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    hour at first, then every half -hour toward the end of the race, when I
    became ravenous.

    50 oz / hour? What's your secret to being able to absorb that much?

    My record is 70/hour on a climb in 100 degree heat...

    I've written a couple of longish posts on salt and dehydration and cramping,
    if you can find them in the archives, but in brief:

    If you take salt (a Succeed! capsule (nfi)) as you sweat, or when your
    stomach sloshes, you will be able to absorb electrolyte drinks very quickly.
    My stomach drained like a sink.

    Quoted message said:

    lol reading that gives me flashbacks to the ~40th mile of my 1st 50 miler
    when my legs were so loaded that I was afraid if I fell down I wouldn't be
    able to get back up again...

    I was worried that if I tripped, all of the tight muscles in my legs would
    rip instantly...

    Quoted message said:

    Damn you sprinted! Or was it a slow motion sprint?

    No, it was the real deal, and I wasn't even breathing when I stopped. So
    there! ;-)

    Really though, great

    Quoted message said:

    race! I enjoyed reading about it, and I always marvel at your training


    logs

    Quoted message said:

    also.

    Thanks. I have been working on my fiction for several years... :-)

    -- Dan

  17. << I felt a bit guilty saying "quick, quick, quick" >>

    Women prefer
    Slowwwww
    & long.

    _______
    Blog, or dog? Who knows. But if you see my lost pup, please ping me!
    <A
    HREF="http://journals.aol.com/virginiaz/DreamingofLeonardo">http://journal
    s.aol.com/virginiaz/DreamingofLeonardo</A>

  18. << I have been working on my fiction for several years... :-)

    -- Dan >>

    Just,
    How many?

    _______
    Blog, or dog? Who knows. But if you see my lost pup, please ping me!
    <A
    HREF="http://journals.aol.com/virginiaz/DreamingofLeonardo">http://journal
    s.aol.com/virginiaz/DreamingofLeonardo</A>

  19. Fascinating report Dan - I love these ultra races.

    Not that I've ever run one - don't have them over here, but I'd
    like to give it a try one day.

    Congrats on the race.

    Anthony.

  20. Dan Stumpus said:

    Polar AXN300 -- it has an altimiter, and records net climb and descent.

    Good grief. I hadn't even seen that one on their web page yet 😉 Sounds
    like they may still have issues with it though, judging from your
    following comments. I'll stick with trying the S625x though, I think.

    Dot

    --
    "So many people get stuck in the routine of life that their dreams waste
    away. This is about living the dream." - Cave Dog

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