Finished My first DC

Congratulations, Ravi! That's fantastic.

How do you feel today?

--
Bob C.

"Of course it hurts. The trick is not minding that it hurts."
T. E. Lawrence (of Arabia)
"Ravi" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:1116877269.132783@sj-nntpcache-3...

Quoted message said:

Hi Guys,
thanks to all you guys for the tips and suggestions for all my queries
over the past year or so... i was able to finish my first Double Century.
I did the Davis Double on May 21st
(http://www.davisbikeclub.org/ddc/2005/index.htm). The weather was
wonderful and the support was excellent.

My Ride Stats:
Distance : 200.4 miles
Total Time : 15:00 hrs (5am - 8pm)
Riding Time : 12:30 hrs
Av. Riding Speed : 15.8 mph
Av. Overall Speed: 13.3 mph

I am not good at writing ride stories, but i will attempt to post one
within a week.

Few things we could have *not* happened:
* Accident on Hwy 16. I am not fully sure about the details Hwy 16 is a
narrow shoulders in some parts and there is traffic near the Cache Creek
Casino. Just less than a mile past the casino, the traffic was blocked and
some cyclist was being airlifted. i hope & pray he/she is ok.
* I heard few other incidents about a rider going off road on the
downhill, but the rider was ok, but trashed his bike.

anyways, it was memorable ride for me.

cheers,
+ravi

psycholist said:

Congratulations, Ravi! That's fantastic.

How do you feel today?

I think i have recovered pretty decent. I went out on a 60min (recovery) spin ride y'day
(Sun) and no major pains or aches elsewhere. although the last few miles were slow, i had
sufficient energy at the finish. Cannot exactly say i finished strong bcoz, for the last 7
miles or so, i was at a below my average pace.

thanks,
ravi

Quoted message said:

--
Bob C.

"Of course it hurts. The trick is not minding that it hurts."
T. E. Lawrence (of Arabia)
"Ravi" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:1116877269.132783@sj-nntpcache-3...

Quoted message said:

Hi Guys,
thanks to all you guys for the tips and suggestions for all my queries
over the past year or so... i was able to finish my first Double Century.
I did the Davis Double on May 21st
(http://www.davisbikeclub.org/ddc/2005/index.htm). The weather was
wonderful and the support was excellent.

My Ride Stats:
Distance : 200.4 miles
Total Time : 15:00 hrs (5am - 8pm)
Riding Time : 12:30 hrs
Av. Riding Speed : 15.8 mph
Av. Overall Speed: 13.3 mph

I am not good at writing ride stories, but i will attempt to post one
within a week.

Few things we could have *not* happened:
* Accident on Hwy 16. I am not fully sure about the details Hwy 16 is a
narrow shoulders in some parts and there is traffic near the Cache Creek
Casino. Just less than a mile past the casino, the traffic was blocked and
some cyclist was being airlifted. i hope & pray he/she is ok.
* I heard few other incidents about a rider going off road on the
downhill, but the rider was ok, but trashed his bike.

anyways, it was memorable ride for me.

cheers,
+ravi

Quoted message said:

Hi Guys,
thanks to all you guys for the tips and suggestions for all my queries
over the past year or so... i was able to finish my first Double Century.
I did the Davis Double on May 21st

Congrats on your first DC! Something I've never done myself, having been
told (when I was racing) that it was "bad" for you... and in the context of
training, that's probably correct. What keeps me away now is the fear of
mile after mile after mile of riding into a headwind.

Sounds like you zipped along at a pretty good clip. What will you do to top
it? :>😉

--Mike Jacoubowsky
Chain Reaction Bicycles
www.ChainReaction.com
Redwood City & Los Altos, CA USA

"Ravi" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:1116877269.132783@sj-nntpcache-3...

Quoted message said:

Hi Guys,
thanks to all you guys for the tips and suggestions for all my queries
over the past year or so... i was able to finish my first Double Century.
I did the Davis Double on May 21st
(http://www.davisbikeclub.org/ddc/2005/index.htm). The weather was
wonderful and the support was excellent.

My Ride Stats:
Distance : 200.4 miles
Total Time : 15:00 hrs (5am - 8pm)
Riding Time : 12:30 hrs
Av. Riding Speed : 15.8 mph
Av. Overall Speed: 13.3 mph

I am not good at writing ride stories, but i will attempt to post one
within a week.

Few things we could have *not* happened:
* Accident on Hwy 16. I am not fully sure about the details Hwy 16 is a
narrow shoulders in some parts and there is traffic near the Cache Creek
Casino. Just less than a mile past the casino, the traffic was blocked and
some cyclist was being airlifted. i hope & pray he/she is ok.
* I heard few other incidents about a rider going off road on the
downhill, but the rider was ok, but trashed his bike.

anyways, it was memorable ride for me.

cheers,
+ravi

I would suggest that Ravi look into the Triple Crown.
http://www.caltriplecrown.com/. Doubles are probably the fastest
growing segment in cycling. Numbers involved may not be hugh but rides
are selling out or large percentage gains are being recorded in number
of riders. These rides are excellent ways to see parts of this state in
very special way.

There are few more doubles in Northern California. Given the stats,
might recommend Mt. Tam and Knoxville. The Grand Tour is in a few weeks
in LA and is rated about as flat as Davis.

There are several Long Distance training series in the area with many of
the local clubs featuring their own. I participate in ACTC's LDTR and
we have had a great spring. I know at least 14 riders were signed up
for Davis and I think over 20 did the Solvang Double. On many Sundays
we have had 3 full groups of 20 or more riders pedaling across the Bay area.

I am sorry to hear that someone went down by Cache Creek. I know the
Davis Bike club has concerns about that area and mentions it in their
pre-ride letter. Having been that rider who got taken away in the fancy
wagon with the flashing red lights a few weeks ago during the DMD, I can
also feel the pain of the person, regardless of the reason.

Congrats on the double.

Mike Jacoubowsky said:

Quoted message said:

Hi Guys,
thanks to all you guys for the tips and suggestions for all my queries
over the past year or so... i was able to finish my first Double Century.
I did the Davis Double on May 21st

Congrats on your first DC! Something I've never done myself, having been
told (when I was racing) that it was "bad" for you... and in the context of
training, that's probably correct. What keeps me away now is the fear of
mile after mile after mile of riding into a headwind.

Sounds like you zipped along at a pretty good clip. What will you do to top
it? :>😉

--Mike Jacoubowsky
Chain Reaction Bicycles
www.ChainReaction.com
Redwood City & Los Altos, CA USA

"Ravi" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:1116877269.132783@sj-nntpcache-3...

Quoted message said:

Hi Guys,
thanks to all you guys for the tips and suggestions for all my queries
over the past year or so... i was able to finish my first Double Century.
I did the Davis Double on May 21st
(http://www.davisbikeclub.org/ddc/2005/index.htm). The weather was
wonderful and the support was excellent.

My Ride Stats:
Distance : 200.4 miles
Total Time : 15:00 hrs (5am - 8pm)
Riding Time : 12:30 hrs
Av. Riding Speed : 15.8 mph
Av. Overall Speed: 13.3 mph

I am not good at writing ride stories, but i will attempt to post one
within a week.

Few things we could have *not* happened:
* Accident on Hwy 16. I am not fully sure about the details Hwy 16 is a
narrow shoulders in some parts and there is traffic near the Cache Creek
Casino. Just less than a mile past the casino, the traffic was blocked and
some cyclist was being airlifted. i hope & pray he/she is ok.
* I heard few other incidents about a rider going off road on the
downhill, but the rider was ok, but trashed his bike.

anyways, it was memorable ride for me.

cheers,
+ravi

Mike Jacoubowsky said:

Quoted message said:

Hi Guys,
thanks to all you guys for the tips and suggestions for all my queries
over the past year or so... i was able to finish my first Double Century.
I did the Davis Double on May 21st

Congrats on your first DC! Something I've never done myself, having been
told (when I was racing) that it was "bad" for you... and in the context of
training, that's probably correct. What keeps me away now is the fear of
mile after mile after mile of riding into a headwind.

especially on these flatter routes, there were lots of trains (pacelines) led by tandems.
Although the pacelines can protect you from headwinds, but can be dangerous. There was a
minor accident that i was involved:

On this particular ride, i was on a paceline. A rider (in the paceline), close to the
front of the pack was riding little to the right. The paceline itself was hovering around
the white line (separator between the road and shoulder). The shoulder become dirt -
meaning the rider on the right had to join back in the paceline. When doing so, the guy
behind him didn't call out 'slowing' - or the people ahead of him didn't call out 'gravel
right' - so people start braking. I realized it and slowed and called out, but the rider
on my wheel either was overlappping me or something i felt his wheel immediately on my
left feet. I held onto my handle bars steady and i didn't go down, but the rider on my
back went down and so did another on his back - two guys went down. They had some bruises
but otherwise *thankfully* were ok. I am not exactly sure whose mistake it was, but few
things could have been done to avoid such an accident:

* riders ahead of the pack calling out that there is gravel on the right...
* riders calling slowing
* and riders not overlapping wheel and give enough buffer zone for until
they are sure about the riding behaviour of the person in front...
* call slowing and swinged over to the left and slowed more gradually [this
i should have done 🙁]

This happened just after the Casino. And i stopped to help both of them dust off and get
back on the bikes. And after we started rolling, in another half a mile, were stopped for
that major accident.

i am beginning to understand more about the dangers of pacelines - not just for yourself,
but the entire pack itself.

Quoted message said:

Sounds like you zipped along at a pretty good clip. What will you do to top
it? :>😉

not sure. i have to decide. until now this was the goal. And thanks to you too MikeJ for
selling and fitting me on one your Trek 2100, which has been my trusty stead ( i call it
'silver bullet'😉 for getting me thru the training and eventually onto my maiden DC.

thanks,
ravi

Quoted message said:

--Mike Jacoubowsky
Chain Reaction Bicycles
www.ChainReaction.com
Redwood City & Los Altos, CA USA

"Ravi" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:1116877269.132783@sj-nntpcache-3...

Quoted message said:

Hi Guys,
thanks to all you guys for the tips and suggestions for all my queries
over the past year or so... i was able to finish my first Double Century.
I did the Davis Double on May 21st
(http://www.davisbikeclub.org/ddc/2005/index.htm). The weather was
wonderful and the support was excellent.

My Ride Stats:
Distance : 200.4 miles
Total Time : 15:00 hrs (5am - 8pm)
Riding Time : 12:30 hrs
Av. Riding Speed : 15.8 mph
Av. Overall Speed: 13.3 mph

I am not good at writing ride stories, but i will attempt to post one
within a week.

Few things we could have *not* happened:
* Accident on Hwy 16. I am not fully sure about the details Hwy 16 is a
narrow shoulders in some parts and there is traffic near the Cache Creek
Casino. Just less than a mile past the casino, the traffic was blocked and
some cyclist was being airlifted. i hope & pray he/she is ok.
* I heard few other incidents about a rider going off road on the
downhill, but the rider was ok, but trashed his bike.

anyways, it was memorable ride for me.

cheers,
+ravi

John Michaels said:

I would suggest that Ravi look into the Triple Crown.
http://www.caltriplecrown.com/. Doubles are probably the fastest
growing segment in cycling. Numbers involved may not be hugh but rides
are selling out or large percentage gains are being recorded in number
of riders. These rides are excellent ways to see parts of this state in
very special way.

Thanks John. I am considering that too, now that i have built up this base, i do not want
to loose it 😉 so want to maintain it and do some more DCs. actually on this ride, i
talked to a lot of people, and one guy mentioned that he has done about 25 Double and he
is 50 yrs old. Wow i thought. And Davis DC, he is doing it for the 13th time, few other
guys are veteran DC riders. it was nice to be a rookie among such Pros 🙂

Quoted message said:

There are few more doubles in Northern California. Given the stats,
might recommend Mt. Tam and Knoxville. The Grand Tour is in a few weeks
in LA and is rated about as flat as Davis.

Grand Tour is certainly in my radar.

Quoted message said:

There are several Long Distance training series in the area with many of
the local clubs featuring their own. I participate in ACTC's LDTR and
we have had a great spring. I know at least 14 riders were signed up
for Davis and I think over 20 did the Solvang Double. On many Sundays

in addition to those 14, i too joined them on morning of the event. I am joined ACTC
recently and have been on only one LDTR and i like the gang. In fact, i rode with one of
the LDTR ride leaders - Patrice for most of my ride in Davis. on the last segment, she set
the pace and i just followed her - until the last 10 miles, where i fell out to just soak
in the last miles 😉

thanks,
ravi

Quoted message said:

we have had 3 full groups of 20 or more riders pedaling across the Bay area.

I am sorry to hear that someone went down by Cache Creek. I know the
Davis Bike club has concerns about that area and mentions it in their
pre-ride letter. Having been that rider who got taken away in the fancy
wagon with the flashing red lights a few weeks ago during the DMD, I can
also feel the pain of the person, regardless of the reason.

Congrats on the double.

Mike Jacoubowsky said:

Quoted message said:

Hi Guys,
thanks to all you guys for the tips and suggestions for all my queries
over the past year or so... i was able to finish my first Double Century.
I did the Davis Double on May 21st

Congrats on your first DC! Something I've never done myself, having been
told (when I was racing) that it was "bad" for you... and in the context of
training, that's probably correct. What keeps me away now is the fear of
mile after mile after mile of riding into a headwind.

Sounds like you zipped along at a pretty good clip. What will you do to top
it? :>😉

--Mike Jacoubowsky
Chain Reaction Bicycles
www.ChainReaction.com
Redwood City & Los Altos, CA USA

"Ravi" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:1116877269.132783@sj-nntpcache-3...

Quoted message said:

Hi Guys,
thanks to all you guys for the tips and suggestions for all my queries
over the past year or so... i was able to finish my first Double Century.
I did the Davis Double on May 21st
(http://www.davisbikeclub.org/ddc/2005/index.htm). The weather was
wonderful and the support was excellent.

My Ride Stats:
Distance : 200.4 miles
Total Time : 15:00 hrs (5am - 8pm)
Riding Time : 12:30 hrs
Av. Riding Speed : 15.8 mph
Av. Overall Speed: 13.3 mph

I am not good at writing ride stories, but i will attempt to post one
within a week.

Few things we could have *not* happened:
* Accident on Hwy 16. I am not fully sure about the details Hwy 16 is a
narrow shoulders in some parts and there is traffic near the Cache Creek
Casino. Just less than a mile past the casino, the traffic was blocked and
some cyclist was being airlifted. i hope & pray he/she is ok.
* I heard few other incidents about a rider going off road on the
downhill, but the rider was ok, but trashed his bike.

anyways, it was memorable ride for me.

cheers,
+ravi

Congratulations, Ravi! I've only done one and regret not having done
more. Keep it up!

larry

Ravi said:

i am beginning to understand more about the dangers of pacelines - not just for yourself,
but the entire pack itself.

I've done many long rides in the double and beyond category. I think
that pace lines, while popular, are extremely dangerous in those
circumstances. I never pace line on those rides, even though I do pace
line rides at least weekly all year. Fatigue, conditions (dark, rain,
etc.) and most of all unfamiliar roads and unfamiliar riders make pace
lines a really bad idea. At the typical speeds of most distance riders,
the pace line benefit isn't much anyway. Pace lines are really for those
elites who can average 20mph on a double and who have plenty of pace
line experience.

Ravi said:

Thanks John. I am considering that too, now that i have built up this base, i do not want
to loose it 😉 so want to maintain it and do some more DCs. actually on this ride, i
talked to a lot of people, and one guy mentioned that he has done about 25 Double and he
is 50 yrs old. Wow i thought. And Davis DC, he is doing it for the 13th time, few other
guys are veteran DC riders. it was nice to be a rookie among such Pros 🙂

Distance riding events are very popular among mature riders. These rides
are as much about mental toughness as physical, and although peak power
declines a little with age, endurance doesn't. On many of these rides,
I'd guess the average age to be around 40, with the 50+ group well
represented and some 60+. There was a guy who completed the
Boston-Montreal-Boston (750 miles, 30K' climbing, 90 hr cutoff) not long
ago, and he was reportedly 75.

Ravi said:

Hi Guys,
thanks to all you guys for the tips and suggestions for all my
queries over the past year or so... i was able to finish my first

Double

Quoted message said:

Century. I did the Davis Double on May 21st
(http://www.davisbikeclub.org/ddc/2005/index.htm). The weather was
wonderful and the support was excellent.

My Ride Stats:
Distance : 200.4 miles
Total Time : 15:00 hrs (5am - 8pm)
Riding Time : 12:30 hrs
Av. Riding Speed : 15.8 mph
Av. Overall Speed: 13.3 mph

ALL I CAN SAY IS WOW!!!!!!!

200 miles. I went 25 and thought I was a big shot.

Maggie

Peter Cole wrote:

At the typical speeds of most distance riders,

Quoted message said:

the pace line benefit isn't much anyway. Pace lines are really for

those

Quoted message said:

elites who can average 20mph on a double and who have plenty of pace
line experience.

That is an interesting perspective.
I have no argument that pacelines full of redlined, inexperienced group
riders are dangerous. But one way of getting your average speed up is
having a group or paceline to help you up your speed for at least part
of the ride.

For long ides I am comfortable on my own at ~16 mph. But with the same
perceived effort I can ride in a group at 19-20 mph. If I have trained
properly for the ride I am not going to start tiring unitl well into
the 2nd half of the ride--so why not take advantage of any
paceline/group that will raise my average over the first 60-70% of the
ride by 3-4 mph?

Maggie said:

200 miles. I went 25 and thought I was a big shot.

you are a BIG SHOT !! couple of yrs ago, 25 was my longest i had
ridden... with proper training and appropriate equipment, any distance
is rideable.

on this ride, i was talking to this guy, he is doing 5 double centuries
in 4 months to celebrate his 50th birthday. When i asked him how many
DCs he has done totally, he thought for a long time and said may be 20
or 25 - he has done so many that he has lost track of the count !! Also
came across some PBP (Paris-Brest-Paris) - thats 1200km - 750miles. But
then that is a different league from us...

for the amt of training you have put in your new max distance of 25 is
great, if you are interested in doing more distances, train for it and
you definitely can do it - just like you just did.

cheers,
+ravi

Quoted message said:

Maggie

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----

In article <[email hidden]>,

gds said:

Peter Cole wrote:

At the typical speeds of most distance riders,

Quoted message said:

the pace line benefit isn't much anyway. Pace lines are really for

those

Quoted message said:

elites who can average 20mph on a double and who have plenty of pace
line experience.

That is an interesting perspective.
I have no argument that pacelines full of redlined, inexperienced group
riders are dangerous. But one way of getting your average speed up is
having a group or paceline to help you up your speed for at least part
of the ride.

For long ides I am comfortable on my own at ~16 mph. But with the same
perceived effort I can ride in a group at 19-20 mph. If I have trained
properly for the ride I am not going to start tiring unitl well into
the 2nd half of the ride--so why not take advantage of any
paceline/group that will raise my average over the first 60-70% of the
ride by 3-4 mph?

_ How many times have you crashed in a paceline? If you ride in a
group you will eventually crash, most likely with only minor road
rash, but you will crash. The other thing about group crashes is
that the person that screws up almost never goes down, so you pay
the price for other people's mistakes. I think a lot of the
choice here is how comfortable you are with this fact.

_ The danger is more than just tired wobbly riders, it's riders not
knowing the unwritten rules. If you're riding close enough to
get an effective draft, you have very little visiblity of what's
up the road. Effectively, you're relying on the eyes and
alertness of everyone in front of you. This is not that big a
deal if everybody knows the rules, but with random link ups in
a large event you have no idea. Probably the biggest problem
is people swerving for road hazards without warning and this
can happen anytime in the ride.

_ Riding with a paceline of unknown riders is a calculated risk
and thus everybody will have a different answer depending on
their evaluation of the risk.

_ Booker C. Bense

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Ravi said:

for the amt of training you have put in your new max distance of 25 is
great, if you are interested in doing more distances, train for it and
you definitely can do it - just like you just did.

cheers,
+ravi

You're a sweetheart. Thanks for the encouragement. It is posts like
this that helped me do the 25 miles.

Maggie

I get by with a little help from my friends...

(not the drugs they say John Lennon was referring to, but people
friends.)

gds said:

For long ides I am comfortable on my own at ~16 mph. But with the same
perceived effort I can ride in a group at 19-20 mph. If I have trained
properly for the ride I am not going to start tiring unitl well into
the 2nd half of the ride--so why not take advantage of any
paceline/group that will raise my average over the first 60-70% of the
ride by 3-4 mph?

If you can complete 60-70% of a double at 19-20 mph, then you are one of
the elites who would benefit.

Personally, even if I could make that pace for that distance I wouldn't
because I can't bear the thought of having someone's butt occupy my
field of view for that long.

BTW, the numbers you give are overly optimistic. 19->16 mph is a
difference of almost 40% in power. At those speeds, drafting is only
going to get you half of that. I've never done a very long ride in a
pace line, but I've done many in the 30-40 mile range. My best times for
either mode are virtually identical.

Maintaining the <18" wheel separation to get a decent draft is mentally
very taxing to do for several hours. It's also dangerous as hell. I
don't recommend it unless you ride strictly for time.

Booker C. Bense said:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

_ How many times have you crashed in a paceline?

Never in a paceline. And I'm 60 yo with over 40 years of riding in
pacelines.

If you ride in a

Quoted message said:

group you will eventually crash,

Yes probably true. And I have crashed in packs as opposed to pacelines.

Quoted message said:

_ The danger is more than just tired wobbly riders, it's riders not
knowing the unwritten rules. If you're riding close enough to
get an effective draft, you have very little visiblity of what's
up the road. Effectively, you're relying on the eyes and
alertness of everyone in front of you.

All true. But don't you think that expereinced riders figure this out
very quickly and can opt out of the group or pace line if they feel it
is unsafe.We are not discussing races here.

Quoted message said:

_ Riding with a paceline of unknown riders is a calculated risk
and thus everybody will have a different answer depending on
their evaluation of the risk.

Also true! And that was my point. I've done lots of organized rides and
have always maanged to find compatible groups/pacelines for at least
part of the ride. To me it made it more enjoyable. And if I don't like
the way folks in the group are riding I just go ahead or drop back
depending on the circumstances.

Quoted message said:

From my perspective there is a lot less danger in joining a paceline on

a distiance ride like we are discussing than being in a big pack in a
Cat 4 or 5 crit.

Quoted message said:

_ Booker C. Bense

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Peter Cole said:

Quoted message said:

BTW, the numbers you give are overly optimistic. 19->16 mph is a
difference of almost 40% in power. At those speeds, drafting is only
going to get you half of that. I've never done a very long ride in a
pace line, but I've done many in the 30-40 mile range. My best times for
either mode are virtually identical.

I am very poor at understanding the physics of riding. So, I can't even
begin to discuss your 40% power number. But experientially I always
find that a group raises my speed by 3 or 4 mph on an average or flat
course. It may well be that only half that amount comes from any
physical advantage from drafting and the other half comes from the
psychology of working with the group as opposed to slogging long miles
on ones own. I don't discount the importance of the 2nd reason as I
think there is always a large psychological component to performing at
or near one's limit.

For example, while fairly fast on the flats I am a (very) mediocre
climber. However, when on a group ride on a long climb our club does I
can climb a full mph faster with the group (8+ mph vs 7+)than I can
(do!) alone. That is ~15% improvement and at those speeds none of that
improvement comes from drafting so I attribute it all to psychology.
But it is very real and it works over a couple of hours of climbing
so... .

Hey guys, can we put a little prespective on this. First time I have
been called elite. Not sure I would agree but it is not my point.

The post is about Davis. Davis is the biggest double as far as number
of riders go in the US. For most of us, it is the first double we do.
What happens in Davis is therefore a bit unique. You have far more
pacelines with inexperienced riders. Many times, you can all of sudden
find yourself pulling 3 or 4 riders that you didn't know were there. It
is the only ride where I recommend you literally call out your every
move just because you don't know who is behind you.

My point is that it is hard to compare Davis with other doubles like the
Terrible Two or DMD. Death Valley is great example of how it really
works. I did the last 100 with a tandem guy who was great. We had
paceline of up to 5 or 6 riders at times. These rides are completely
different. You have very experienced riders and pacelines are a good
thing. Riders talk and you generally know they are there. You do work
together. Most of the time it is for short periods as people work at
different paces. It is not like Davis in the least. Completely
different experience. Many doubles like the Terrible Two only lend
themselves to pacelines for short periods anyway. Hard to paceline when
you are climbing out of Fort Ross.

Peter Cole said:

Ravi said:

i am beginning to understand more about the dangers of pacelines - not
just for yourself,
but the entire pack itself.

I've done many long rides in the double and beyond category. I think
that pace lines, while popular, are extremely dangerous in those
circumstances. I never pace line on those rides, even though I do pace
line rides at least weekly all year. Fatigue, conditions (dark, rain,
etc.) and most of all unfamiliar roads and unfamiliar riders make pace
lines a really bad idea. At the typical speeds of most distance riders,
the pace line benefit isn't much anyway. Pace lines are really for those
elites who can average 20mph on a double and who have plenty of pace
line experience.

Peter Cole said:

gds said:

For long ides I am comfortable on my own at ~16 mph. But with the same
perceived effort I can ride in a group at 19-20 mph. If I have trained
properly for the ride I am not going to start tiring unitl well into
the 2nd half of the ride--so why not take advantage of any
paceline/group that will raise my average over the first 60-70% of the
ride by 3-4 mph?

If you can complete 60-70% of a double at 19-20 mph, then you are one of
the elites who would benefit.

Personally, even if I could make that pace for that distance I wouldn't
because I can't bear the thought of having someone's butt occupy my
field of view for that long.

I did my only double when I was about 50. It was a small club ride,
with all but three of us dropping out before the end. My time was
about the same as Ravi's.

I rode almost the entire ride as a three-man team, with the other two
being guys I knew and trusted completely. In that situation, we
rotated the lead very requently.

I'm sure it didn't help as much as a longer pace line, but the view was
much better at least one third of the time!

And I _do_ think it was safer. I agree that I'm _very_ nervous riding
close to unknown riders. (Or even some known ones.)

- Frank Krygowski