Finally into racing (10Mile TT)

Rocket_Man said:

Title says it all...tonight I finally did my first Race. Mainly what my question is...What to do to go faster? 🙄

The background...
The TT is actually about 9.8Miles...I finished with a time of 27:53. A couple things I did wrong was started out to fast, I almost got winded within a mile. I noticed it, slowed down, just a tish, and got "myself" back. Also, I found that I had to low of a cadence. With about 2 miles to go, I ended up in a larger? gear...therefore spinning the pedals over a little faster, and went faster. But, I don't know if I could keep that up for the full 10 miles. ???
The course itself is a 5 mile "loop"...moreso, out and back on a country road. Failry smooth, with some rolling hills. Actually one hill suprised me and brought my speed down to around 13mph (the biggest hill of the course).
As for myself...my normal riding is just commuting to work, about 4.5 miles each way (I take a slightly different route home usually). My fastest time is about 12:20...to work, although its mostly downhill, and very little to no traffic. Back to home, usually takes me about 20 min...I've never actually timed it, more traffic and junk. The ride home consists of two half mile climbs. One is about 6-7% steady grade...the other starts at 3-4% (for the first 1/4 mile) then kicks upwards of 8-9% and I live on top of that hill.
Other than that I try to get in about 30-50 miles on the weekends, usually "easy" at about 16-17mph average. Sometimes I ride in the hills...sometimes out on the flat prairie. I also ride alone...so no motivation to "kick it up".
I also have an indoor trainer...but as you have probably figured out, no structure to the workouts...normally just spin for a while (30-45 min). Mainly, 5-10 warmup...20-30 fast paced...then a cool down for a bit.

I hope that is enough info to give me some direction on what to do. I don't know if its a training issue...or just more time in the saddle giving 100% for that lenght of time. ???
Anyway...any help is appreciated. 😎

Depending on your bike set-up, I'd say that's a pretty good time for the course you described (rolling hills, with one momentum-sapper) having not done a lot of focused training. The course sounds exactly like the one my club used to use until the municipality threw up a new 4-way STOP 6km into the route.

To get better, you should keep doing what you're doing, perhaps add some distance to your commute 2-3 times/week, and add in a little intensity (15-20 minutes at a time). There's lots of great info on these forums that will help too.

ctgt said:

Depending on your bike set-up, I'd say that's a pretty good time for the course you described (rolling hills, with one momentum-sapper) having not done a lot of focused training. The course sounds exactly like the one my club used to use until the municipality threw up a new 4-way STOP 6km into the route.

To get better, you should keep doing what you're doing, perhaps add some distance to your commute 2-3 times/week, and add in a little intensity (15-20 minutes at a time). There's lots of great info on these forums that will help too.

Rocket, you should work on increasing your FTP. To do this, spend more time on SST/L4/L5. Really, a twenty-minute ride is enough to warm up. If you have a place to do long intervals (20 to 30 minutes) without too many stops or other things that could slow you down, then ride there(or use the trainer (w/ a good fan). 2x20 min. L4 intervals are popular here. 5x5 min. L5 intervals are too (maybe your climbs are long enough to do these on them???).

For an idea of how to do these workouts and incorporate them into a training plan, check out the "It's Killing Me But" thread on this board.

Break a leg!

Thanks for your help.

Yeah, I've been surfing around in here for a bit...I have this info, that info, info from here/there. Now, I'm just trying to get it all figured out. I also found some really good tips for TT on another web site...I'll take those in consideration too.

I'm going to add a little distance/intensity on my commutes...mostly on the way home, don't want to be all sweaty at work. 🙄
I do have a "perfect" training route figured out now (amazing how you see roads differently from a racing point of view). The cool thing is that the traffic really dies down after a mile or so from my home...then there is about a two mile stretch of road before the road comes to a T. One way...pancake flat for about 6 miles, the other...rolling hills (similar to the TT course) for about 3-4 miles. Both of these roads have no stops, no major intersections, and no businesses (a few homes). I also have a ton of oppertunities to do hill climbing. Just name it...I can probably find it near where I live.

What is a "good" hill to do training on???
Just within a short ride (1-7 miles) I can do a 1/2 mile 8% grade, 1 mile 6% grade, 1.5 mile 10% (from what the sign says at the top of the hill), finally...4-5 mile 7% average grade hill (starts off at around 10%, then varies from 5-8% the rest of the way). Also the climbs on the commute are also avail obviously. These are easy to access from my home...there are a few "killer climbs" if I go out a ways (haven't actually done them on bike, yet).

Finally, one more question...
I'm planning on participating in a "race" in August. Its a 100k ride...through the hills (I'd actually get to descend one of the "killer climbes" 😄). Anyway, I'm not looking at it as a race...but moreso, I just want to finish. Would there be any specific training for that? Or, just get more saddle time in before the ride? I'm thinking just more saddle time.

Again, thanks for all the help!!! 😄

Rocket_Man said:

Thanks for your help.

Yeah, I've been surfing around in here for a bit...I have this info, that info, info from here/there. Now, I'm just trying to get it all figured out. I also found some really good tips for TT on another web site...I'll take those in consideration too.

I'm going to add a little distance/intensity on my commutes...mostly on the way home, don't want to be all sweaty at work. 🙄
I do have a "perfect" training route figured out now (amazing how you see roads differently from a racing point of view). The cool thing is that the traffic really dies down after a mile or so from my home...then there is about a two mile stretch of road before the road comes to a T. One way...pancake flat for about 6 miles, the other...rolling hills (similar to the TT course) for about 3-4 miles. Both of these roads have no stops, no major intersections, and no businesses (a few homes). I also have a ton of oppertunities to do hill climbing. Just name it...I can probably find it near where I live.

What is a "good" hill to do training on???
Just within a short ride (1-7 miles) I can do a 1/2 mile 8% grade, 1 mile 6% grade, 1.5 mile 10% (from what the sign says at the top of the hill), finally...4-5 mile 7% average grade hill (starts off at around 10%, then varies from 5-8% the rest of the way). Also the climbs on the commute are also avail obviously. These are easy to access from my home...there are a few "killer climbs" if I go out a ways (haven't actually done them on bike, yet).

Finally, one more question...
I'm planning on participating in a "race" in August. Its a 100k ride...through the hills (I'd actually get to descend one of the "killer climbes" 😄). Anyway, I'm not looking at it as a race...but moreso, I just want to finish. Would there be any specific training for that? Or, just get more saddle time in before the ride? I'm thinking just more saddle time.

Again, thanks for all the help!!! 😄

It sounds like that longest climb you are talking about(4-5 miles) would be a good one for hill repeats. Of course, I don't know the climb, but if it takes 20-30 minutes to get up, well that's pretty much perfect for your needs. Do that a couple times at your FTP regularly.

And if you don't feel like climbing, that pancake flat route you are talking about sounds good for TT work. You could do 20-minute intervals on that (of course you'll have to turn around to continue...but that small amount of time turning around isn't going to hurt your workout).

And the trainer can be great for doing focused workouts. Just make sure you are getting enough resistance...and just as important...make sure you're getting cooled. You'll sweat buckets doing long intervals on a trainer.

If you are just getting into riding, just getting saddle time like your talking about is going to give you SOME aerobic development. How much? Hmmmmmmmm. If you gradually build your mileage over the next couple months, you should be able to finish that ride in August.

But the training I posted about earlier is going to give you optimal (or pretty darn close to it) development if you go about it systematically. Although the fun factor might sometimes be lower than when just getting out there and hammering, training this way can do wonders.

Thanks for all the help. I appreciate it.

Now...for a noob question...
How do you find your FTP, Watts, and all that fun stuff? I've been looking but I haven't been able to see anything that says how. Unless you need a Power Meter...of which, I don't have.

Anyway...did a 20 mile ride this morning. Rolling hills, 1 biggish climb, and a few flat "sprint" areas. Just tried to vary my speed and intensity...meanwhile keeping an eye on my heart rate. Felt really good...cant wait to do it again. 😄

Rocket_Man said:

Thanks for all the help. I appreciate it.

Now...for a noob question...
How do you find your FTP, Watts, and all that fun stuff? I've been looking but I haven't been able to see anything that says how. Unless you need a Power Meter...of which, I don't have.

Anyway...did a 20 mile ride this morning. Rolling hills, 1 biggish climb, and a few flat "sprint" areas. Just tried to vary my speed and intensity...meanwhile keeping an eye on my heart rate. Felt really good...cant wait to do it again. 😄

You need to be able to measure power in one form or another while riding, whether that be an on bike power meter, or an indoor ergometer.

You can do a long climb with a known elevation and distance and use an online calculator to estimate wattage from you time/average speed, weight, rolling resistance and some other assumptions. This is of course less accurate than using a power meter.

The most accurate means is with a calibrated and zeroed power meter/ergo. Here is an item on determining FTP:

http://alex-cycle.blogspot.com/2008/05/seven-deadly-sins.html

Yeah...thats what I figured. I need to invest in a Power Meter. 😎 But...that won't be happening for a while. Women...they never understand. My wife thinks that buying a house is more important than racing!!! WHAT?!? Anyway...

Until I can afford a power meter...What else could I could I do? I know just getting out and riding intervals/spinning will help me...at my current level. Is there anything in particular that I should watch for? HR? Mainly just looking for "starting spot" to judge my own fitness level.

Also...I don't have a cadence counter. Is there a way of figuring it out? I was thinking something along the lines of counting your HR (without a monitor)...count for 10 sec, then mulitply by 6. Just curious if that would be a good indication.

Rocket_Man said:

Title says it all...tonight I finally did my first Race. Mainly what my question is...What to do to go faster? 🙄

The background...
The TT is actually about 9.8Miles...I finished with a time of 27:53. A couple things I did wrong was started out to fast, I almost got winded within a mile. I noticed it, slowed down, just a tish, and got "myself" back. Also, I found that I had to low of a cadence. With about 2 miles to go, I ended up in a larger? gear...therefore spinning the pedals over a little faster, and went faster. But, I don't know if I could keep that up for the full 10 miles. ???
The course itself is a 5 mile "loop"...moreso, out and back on a country road. Failry smooth, with some rolling hills. Actually one hill suprised me and brought my speed down to around 13mph (the biggest hill of the course).
As for myself...my normal riding is just commuting to work, about 4.5 miles each way (I take a slightly different route home usually). My fastest time is about 12:20...to work, although its mostly downhill, and very little to no traffic. Back to home, usually takes me about 20 min...I've never actually timed it, more traffic and junk. The ride home consists of two half mile climbs. One is about 6-7% steady grade...the other starts at 3-4% (for the first 1/4 mile) then kicks upwards of 8-9% and I live on top of that hill.
Other than that I try to get in about 30-50 miles on the weekends, usually "easy" at about 16-17mph average. Sometimes I ride in the hills...sometimes out on the flat prairie. I also ride alone...so no motivation to "kick it up".
I also have an indoor trainer...but as you have probably figured out, no structure to the workouts...normally just spin for a while (30-45 min). Mainly, 5-10 warmup...20-30 fast paced...then a cool down for a bit.

I hope that is enough info to give me some direction on what to do. I don't know if its a training issue...or just more time in the saddle giving 100% for that lenght of time. ???
Anyway...any help is appreciated. 😎

Two words to get faster: Buy Chris Carmichael;s books. They did wonders for Lance.

Jeff Vader said:

Two words to get faster: Buy Chris Carmichael;s books. They did wonders for Lance.

...Looks like more than two words to me...:p Seriously though, thanks. I hadn't thought of that yet...I'll look into it. Cant hurt, right? 😄

Well...tonight was a good night. Knocked almost a Minute off my time from last week. Finished at 26:58!!! 😎

Now, I've thought of another question. Eating. Last week I made the mistake of eating a "biggish" dinner...Turkeyburger, Veggies, and I think something else too, but don't remember exactly. Anyway...Last week I didn't really get a warmup. About 2 miles into the TT, I got the feeling of having to throw up...but it went away within a mile, or so. SO, tonight I took it easy on dinner...had an omlet (2 eggs and 2 pieces of turkey bacon), on the way to the TT I had a Cliff Bar. Figured it would be a nice mix of Protein and fast acting Carbs. Anyway...tonight I got in about a 4 mile warm up, no problems. During the TT, about the 3 mile mark, I got the same feeling. But, tonight it went away by the time I got to the next climb...I'd say within a quater mile, or so.
I'm thinking that this isn't normal...is it? I get off of work at 4:30...home around 4:50-5:00, and we normally eat about 5:15-5:30. I got out to the course about 6:30...and the TT started at 7. Am I eating to close to the race? Should I eat after instead? Maybe "split up" dinner...have something really lite before then something when I get home. I dunno...just wondering what you all think. Maybe I'm just eating the wrong kinds of food.

Jeff Vader said:

...Buy Chris Carmichael;s books. They did wonders for Lance...

Rocket_Man said:

...Cant hurt, right? 😄...

Debatable....

Rocket_Man said:

...Looks like more than two words to me...:p Seriously though, thanks. I hadn't thought of that yet...I'll look into it. Cant hurt, right? 😄
....

Yes, it can. Unless you enjoy wasting time. Genetics (and probably a few other things) is what worked for Lance, not Foundation Miles (TM), or Muscle Tension (TM) intervals. Read Allen's/Coggan's Training and Racing with a Power Meter instead. Oh, and read Daveryanwyoming's posts. 🙂

Rocket,

There's no need to do Chris Carmichael's workouts. Oh wait, I hope I'm not sued for using his name in the same sentence as the word 'workout'!

As for you diet question, I can tell you what works for me. But keep in mind, it might not work for you. If I have a race in the evening, I'll have breakfast with a protein in it (eggs or meat). But after that, no protein until after the race. The foods I'd eat for lunch would be carb rich. I'd eat my last food two hours before the race starts. Then I'd have something sugary 10 or 15 minutes before the start (maple syrup in my case. ha ha, like I said, it's what works for me).

If I eat protein before a race, especially a TT where I can't just 'sit in', I feel like puking, too. Scratch that, I think I've actually puked under those conditions before!!!

Try eating protein earlier in the day, and cut it out from the food you eat later in the day. And give yourself AT LEAST two hours before eating and racing.

There'll be plenty of time after you collect your trophies for a steak.