Fibromyalgia

"Robert A. Fink, M. D." <[email hidden]> wrote in message
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Quoted message said:

anon said:

Multiple sclerosis used to be diagnosed as 'neurasthenia'
before it was shown to be a distinctive physical disease.
It was only decades later that the etiology was shown to
be auto-immune. Lupus, another disease with vague
symptoms in the early stages, occurring mainly in women,
also used to be waved off as neurasthenia, hypochondria
or "attention- seeking".

But these (and other) diseases have demonstrable
pathology. Fibromyalgia has none.

....that have been identified at this time. Could end up
being a miniscule viral pustule behind the left ear.

tech27 said:

....that have been identified at this time. Could end up
being a miniscule viral pustule behind the left ear.

There's no shortage of diseases with no identifiable
pathologies, although they are probably mostly all the
same thing (imaginary). They provide a good excuse for
support groups, non-profit organizations paying high
salaries to a handful of people, prescription medications,
frequent chatty doctor visits, and the like, but they
aren't serious medicine.

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In article <[email hidden]>,

Mxsmanic said:

REP said:

The point of my anecdotes is not that I'm special or had
access only to retarded doctors, but that some doctors
may be too ready to assume that when women complain of
pain and fatigue that they are dealing with somatizing
patients.

Actually, you probably _are_ special, which is why your
problem was not immediately spotted. The number of middle-
aged housewives who suffer from an endless series of semi-
imaginary aches and pains is very great, and so it is
logical for a doctor to assume that you may be one of
them, if you are a middle-aged housewive or in an allied
category.

Actually, I was in my late 20s, not a housewife and
childfree. The only categories I satisfied were female,
fatigued and in pain.

--
"Did Father shoot him? I will eat Grandfather for dinner."
- Helen Keller, on learning of the death of her grandfather

Mxsmanic said:

tech27 said:

....that have been identified at this time. Could end up
being a miniscule viral pustule behind the left ear.

There's no shortage of diseases with no identifiable
pathologies, although they are probably mostly all the
same thing (imaginary). They provide a good excuse for
support groups, non-profit organizations paying high
salaries to a handful of people, prescription medications,
frequent chatty doctor visits, and the like, but they
aren't serious medicine.

Your saying suffering from an imaginary disease would not in
itself be an identifiable pathology? BTW- Fibromyalgia is
quite real, I've met real people with it, and it drastically
impacts there lives.

---
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slowly without drinking water. As soon as the screaming,
running around in agony, and thrashing about on the floor
is over, you'll feel great, trust me... ]🙂 Be a counter
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Quoted message said:

Your saying suffering from an imaginary disease would not
in itself be an identifiable pathology?

It might be a mental illness.

Quoted message said:

BTW- Fibromyalgia is quite real, I've met real people with
it, and it drastically impacts there lives.

So is hysterical blindness.

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tech27 said:

This guy is a bona fide [censored]. He's only interested in
contradicting and arguing with people.

In other words, you disagree.

Quoted message said:

Just ignore him.

Yes, Sir!

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"Mxsmanic" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
"]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Your saying suffering from an imaginary disease would
not in itself be an identifiable pathology?

It might be a mental illness.

Quoted message said:

BTW- Fibromyalgia is quite real, I've met real people
with it, and it drastically impacts there lives.

So is hysterical blindness.

This guy is a bona fide [censored]. He's only interested in
contradicting and arguing with people. Just ignore him.

Mxsmanic said:

Yup. Many are addicted to prescription drugs, too.

Yes well, we've had cancer patients (some dying) denied pain
medications on alt.support.cancer. Pain cannot be seen so it
is easy to ignore, eh? J

Quoted message said:

Your saying suffering from an imaginary disease would not
in itself be an identifiable pathology? BTW- Fibromyalgia
is quite real, I've met real people with it, and it
drastically impacts there lives.

Barrett's Quackwatch seems to believe in it quac-quac-Open ↗
kwatch.org/03HealthPromotion/fibromyalgia/fms00.html
paintracking.comwhatisfms.htmlOpen ↗
paintracking.comfms07.htmlOpen ↗

I don't know if she is a relative ( or not) J

J said:

Yes well, we've had cancer patients (some dying) denied
pain medications on alt.support.cancer.

Fibromyalgia isn't cancer.

Quoted message said:

Pain cannot be seen so it is easy to ignore, eh?

It's easy to simulate, too.

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Mxsmanic said:

J said:

Yes well, we've had cancer patients (some dying) denied
pain medications on alt.support.cancer.

Fibromyalgia isn't cancer.

Quoted message said:

Pain cannot be seen so it is easy to ignore, eh?

It's easy to simulate, too.

Are you actually suggesting that you think people with
fibromyalgia are faking having pain, or was this just a
rhetorical point?

--
David Rind [email hidden]

"David Rind" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
"]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Are you actually suggesting that you think people with
fibromyalgia are faking having pain, or was this just a
rhetorical point?

--
David Rind [email hidden]

The original poster has read some opinions that FM sufferers
are basically hypochondriacs or out and out fakers. In any
case, he has nothing much to say except that he believes
what others wrote which matches his opinion. I'm sure he
hasn't read (or won't admit to reading) anything supporting
FM. He's a serious blockhead and I only post in this thread
to others, never to him.

Quoted message said:

At least the doctors actually found something wrong with
you. Often FM is the catch-all diagnosis for people who
have endless complaints but no discernable disease; they
are told they have FM because they want to hear that they
have _something_.<

FM can also be a diagnosis for a real disease that an MD
can't figure out or is careless, imcompetent or because the
patient's test work falls just within borderline.

Quoted message said:

Once she has a name, and a
truckload of meds, she's happy.<

She? Are you implying that there are no men that fall into
this definition of yours?

David Rind said:

Are you actually suggesting that you think people with
fibromyalgia are faking having pain, or was this just a
rhetorical point?

I'm saying that in cases such as fibromyalgia, where the
only symptoms are subjective complaints made by the patient,
it's impossible to know whether there is any real pain or
not. And a lot of people _will_ fake it, especially in
exchange for attention and/or prescription narcotics or
other drugs.

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PLaine said:

She? Are you implying that there are no men that fall into
this definition of yours?

It's much more common among women, but it occurs among men
as well, occasionally.

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"Mxsmanic" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
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Quoted message said:

PLaine said:

She? Are you implying that there are no men that fall
into this

definition

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

of yours?

It's much more common among women, but it occurs among men
as well, occasionally.

Interesting. First he dismisses FM as a basically a non-
existent complaint, but somehow he can ascertain that men
"occasionally" ( I suppose he means that on some occasions a
man will imagine it , and on other occasions he doesn't???)
imagine it too. I'd like to see his diagnostic protocol for
this amazing feat.

tech27 said:

Interesting. First he dismisses FM as a basically a non-
existent complaint, but somehow he can ascertain that men
"occasionally" ( I suppose he means that on some occasions
a man will imagine it , and on other occasions he
doesn't???) imagine it too.

Quoted message said:

I'd like to see his diagnostic protocol for this
amazing feat.

I'd like to see the diagnostic protocol for fibromyalgia,
including all lab tests.

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Fibromyalgia may be due to low DHEA.

Pain. 1999 Nov;83(2):313-9.

Hyposecretion of adrenal androgens and the relation of serum
adrenal steroids, serotonin and insulin-like growth factor-1
to clinical features in women with fibromyalgia.

Dessein PH, Shipton EA, Joffe BI, Hadebe DP, Stanwix AE, Van
der Merwe BA.

Rheumatology Unit, Milpark Hospital, Johannesburg,
South Africa.

Neuroendocrine deficiencies have been implicated in
fibromyalgia (FM). In the present study, adrenal androgen
metabolites and their relationship with health status in FM
were investigated. For comparison, serum levels of other
implicated neuroendocrine mediators were correlated with
health status. Fifty-seven consecutive women with FM
completed the Fibromyalgia Impact Questionnaire (FIQ).
Fasting blood samples were taken for measurement of
dehydroepiandrosterone sulphate (DHEAS), free testosterone
(T), cortisol, serotonin and insulin-like growth factor-1.
Normal value for DHEAS and T were obtained from 114
controls. DHEAS levels were decreased significantly in pre-
and postmenopausal patients (P<0.0001 and P<0.0005,
respectively). T levels were decreased significantly in
premenopausal and insignificantly in postmenopausal patients
(P<0.0001 and P=0.06, respectively). The following
correlations between neurohormonal levels and FIQ scores
were found: DHEAS (after adjustment for age) vs. pain
(P<0.001) and T (after adjustment for age) versus physical
functioning (P=0.002). None of the other neurohormonal
levels correlated significantly with any of the FIQ scores.
IGF-1 levels were lower in the obese patients as compared to
those who were non-obese (P=0.03). The BMI correlated
positively with pain (P<0. 001) and inversely with DHEAS
levels (P=0.006). After further adjustment for BMI, the
correlation between age adjusted DHEAS and pain was no
longer significant. Hyposecretion of adrenal androgens was
documented in FM. This was more pronounced in obese
patients. Low serum androgen levels correlated with poor
health status in FM. Longitudinal studies are needed to
elucidate whether these are cause and/or effect
relationships.

James Michael Howard said:

Fibromyalgia may be due to low DHEA.

The last sentence is important: "Longitudinal studies are
needed to elucidate whether these are cause and/or effect
relationships."

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Mxsmanic said:

Quoted message said:

Your saying suffering from an imaginary disease would not
in itself be an identifiable pathology?

It might be a mental illness.

Mental illness is generally an identifiable pathology.

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

BTW- Fibromyalgia is quite real, I've met real people
with it, and it drastically impacts there lives.

So is hysterical blindness.

ncbi.nlm.nih.govquery.fcgiOpen ↗
db=pubmed&dopt=Abstract&list_uids=10341365

It has objectively measurable physical effects.

---
A new legal high: 1 tbsp of Dave's Insanity sauce, savor
slowly without drinking water. As soon as the screaming,
running around in agony, and thrashing about on the floor
is over, you'll feel great, trust me... ]🙂 Be a counter
terrorist perpetrate random senseless acts of kindness