fenders

On Tue, 13 Jan 2004 12:48:20 -0800, "Pete Grey" <[email hidden]>

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Does anyone know how low/tight a front fender needs to be to keep one's

feet

Quoted message said:

dry(er)?

The bottom of the mudflaps on my SKS fenders are 4-1/2 to 5 inches from the ground. Very
effective. My feet are kept dry from wheel spray and I see little mud/water on the front bottom of
the bottom bracket.

Quoted message said:

- use a set of regular fenders
- build several inches of extension from either a combination of plastic detergent bottle and duct
tape, or duct tape alone.

This allows flexibility in the extension, but keeps your feet dry! Been doing this for 10+ years
with success, usually lasts at least one season before tape replacement.

-pete

Neoprene rubber is flexible and, well, it doesn't look like duct tape because it isn't duct tape! 🙂

I get the 6 inch squares from the hardware store plumbing section-
1/16th inch thick- and do a little trimming. I'll try to describe- at the top edge, leave 2 inches
(1 inch each side of center). Trim straight down for one inch, and draw a line to the outer edge
at about 2-3 inches down from the top edge. Cut away these pieces.

I use a curve and make the whole shape flow smoothly, including rounding the corners on the outer
edges, but that's my choice.

The neoprene is mounted to the bottom edge of the fender, using about 1-1/2 inches of the top inside
the fender. Punch/drill holes for attachment here. The best results I have had include a plastic
'plate' on the inside of the fender, capturing the neoprene between the fender and the plate, but
the plate is only inside the fender, not extending below. A hole punch works well for the neoprene,
and a dremel for the fender and plastic plate holes.

#6-32 bolts with washers. Stainless preferably. Put the bolt head to
the inside so the bolt end doesn't rub the tire.

Very flexible, heavy enough to stay in place for the water spray, works, and lasts. I have one that
is three years old and shows no signs of wear.

If you want longer flaps, some places will sell the rubber in larger pieces, usually on a roll that
they cut to length. A square foot gets you four flaps, two bikes front and back.

Quoted message said:

This is an interesting set-up that side-steps the problem of lack of
clearance on a racing bike:

cyclingnews.comfeatures.phpOpen ↗

Quoted message said:

Is this "home-made" or is it available in stores/online?

As others have mentioned, those are SKS Race Blades, and are *excellent.* Finally, a fender I'm
willing to use! They work on both my Iron Pig ('72 Cinelli that serves as my rain bike) and my 5900.
I always thought fenders were more hassle than they were worth, what the heck, you'll just get wet
anyway even with fenders if you're out there for a while, right? Yes, no, I dunno... I do know that
riding in the rain is definitely more pleasant & less messy when I have the Race Blades on.

Their weight is very low, and they can truly be installed and removed in less than two
minutes total.

--Mike-- Chain Reaction Bicycles www.ChainReaction.com

Phillip Stevens said:

Does anyone know how low/tight a front fender needs to be to keep one's feet dry(er)?

Visualize a tangent line to the front tire that clears the fender. You'll notice that you can't
safely make a fender that low or it will strike a curb when rolling off onto the street (of course
some folks never do that) but it is a serious consideration. You'll need a "mud flap" to keep your
feet out of front wheel spray that otherwise strikes the downtube that splits it in two to water
both feet.

Note that front fenders present a serious hazard for riding the least bit off road or on streets
with "derailleur sticks" sticks that are just long enough to get tossed up into the wheel and jam on
the rear fender brace. The result is that the fender is pulled securely into the tire to lock it
solid and cause an endo as sure as dropping a cantilever brake straddle cable into a knobby tire.

I've seen it happen and have had one cause an endo with no fender when the stick came up against the
fork and didn't break. Fender braces do not require as a strong a stick, the fender doing the
forceful work.

Jobst Brandt [email hidden]

Peter Cole <[email hidden]> wrote: [SKS "Race Blade" mudguards]

Quoted message said:

I think they're very much a compromise in terms of protection, based on how they seemed to work on
one wet ride. I think front fenders have to go much lower in front to keep your feet dry.

Any front mudguard requires a mudflap IME. I'm more concerned about the rear mudguard, which is much
too short for comfort for following riders and would not allow fitting a mudflap at all.
--
David Damerell <[email hidden]> Distortion Field!

<[email hidden]> wrote in message
"]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Phillip Stevens writes:

Note that front fenders present a serious hazard for riding the least bit off road or on streets
with "derailleur sticks" sticks that are just long enough to get tossed up into the wheel and
jam on the rear fender brace. The result is that the fender is pulled securely into the tire to
lock it solid and cause an endo as sure as dropping a cantilever brake straddle cable into a
knobby tire.

I've seen it happen and have had one cause an endo with no fender when the stick came up against
the fork and didn't break. Fender braces do not require as a strong a stick, the fender doing the
forceful work.

Jobst Brandt [email hidden]

Hasn't SKS designed their lower front fender mounting hardware to break away in these situations? Is
their design at all effective in preventing this kind of situation?

rosco:

Quoted message said:

<[email hidden]> wrote in message "]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Phillip Stevens writes: Note that front fenders present a serious hazard for riding the least
bit off road or on streets with "derailleur sticks" sticks that are just long enough to get
tossed up into the wheel and jam on the rear fender brace. The result is that the fender is
pulled securely into the tire to lock it solid and cause an endo as sure as dropping a
cantilever brake straddle cable into a knobby tire.

I've seen it happen and have had one cause an endo with no fender when the stick came up against
the fork and didn't break. Fender braces do not require as a strong a stick, the fender doing
the forceful work.

Quoted message said:

Hasn't SKS designed their lower front fender mounting hardware to break away in these situations?
Is their design at all effective in preventing this kind of situation?

SKS' full front fender has braces which clip on to a plastic mount screwed to the fork. It takes
relatively little force to unclip the braces; however the fender is also fixed in place by a screw
at the fork crown.

Quoted message said:

Any front mudguard requires a mudflap IME. I'm more concerned about the

rear

Quoted message said:

mudguard, which is much too short for comfort for following riders and would not allow fitting a
mudflap at all.

Even without a mudflap, the SKS Race Blades are a dramatic improvement over following a rider with
no fender at all. I've had no issues whatsoever following closely behind a Race Bladed bike in the
rain. I'm sure mudflaps would be even better, but my guess is that Race Blades are going to be
installed on bikes that otherwise would have had no fenders.

--Mike-- Chain Reaction Bicycles chainreactionbicycles.comchainreactionbicycles.comOpen ↗

In article <[email hidden]>, [email hidden] says...

Quoted message said:

MSA said:

I fitted SKS raceblades back in Oct 2003...

Quoted message said:

Rear guard does not come down far enough to the rear if riding in a pack. My training group
complained so much that I made a mudflap which solved the problem.

Quoted message said:

For pictures of the Raceblades fitted to my Winter training bike go to:
msa.cyclist.btinternet.co.ukmy fondriest.htmOpen ↗

Does that mudflap really help the people behind you stay dry? I have ridden in packs with folks
with regular fenders, and it seems that the rear fender would have to extend much lower than your
flap in order to keep the next rider dry. Maybe the flap just helps with the spray in the face?

Dave dvt at psu dot edu

It helps. The further back the person behind is the more likely they are to catch a faceful!
It's better than nothing though, and maybe something longer would be better (said the actress to
the Bishop!)

--
Mark (MSA) This post is packaged by intellectual weight, not volume. Some settling of contents may
have occurred during transmission

Jose Rizal said:

SKS' full front fender has braces which clip on to a plastic mount screwed to the fork. It takes
relatively little force to unclip the braces; however the fender is also fixed in place by a screw
at the fork crown.

An alternate mounting system that's been used is to run the fender stays not to the dropout, but to
a point midway up the fork - say, to a low-rider mounting boss. Supposedly, this causes the fender
to pivot away from the tire, not into it, in the event it swallows a stick.

--
Frank Krygowski [To reply, omit what's between "at" and "cc"]

In article <[email hidden]>,
"Mike Jacoubowsky/Chain Reaction Bicycles" <[email hidden]>

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

This is an interesting set-up that side-steps the problem of lack of clearance on a racing bike:

cyclingnews.comfeatures.phpOpen ↗ up

Quoted message said:

Is this "home-made" or is it available in stores/online?

As others have mentioned, those are SKS Race Blades, and are *excellent.* Finally, a fender I'm
willing to use! They work on both my Iron Pig ('72 Cinelli that serves as my rain bike) and my
5900. I always thought fenders were more hassle than they were worth, what the heck, you'll just
get wet anyway even with fenders if you're out there for a while, right? Yes, no, I dunno... I
do know that riding in the rain is definitely more pleasant & less messy when I have the Race
Blades on.

Mike, I'm thinking with that attitude, that rain is kind of an occasional thing where you live.

In Vancouver, fenders with extension flaps front and rear are mandatory on most group rides
(offenders are permitted to ride, but have to stay at the back of the paceline). I won a citizen's
race last year riding my Pinarello when it still had its fenders on, and some serious riders do early-
season races on befendered bikes.

I commute almost every day, and bought a cheap Bianchi as a dedicated rain/commuter bike for
this purpose.

The only time the fenders are a major hassle is when I'm trying to load the bike into my Tercel.
Even then, much blame has to go to the tail rack and attached lunchbox, which make loading and
unloading a fender-bending experience.

The amount of wet you get with and without fenders is vastly different. In the first order, just not
having a rat-tail of water sprayed up your back keeps you much warmer and drier. Next, decent
fenders that cover down to the bottom bracket and come low in the front do a lot to keep your feet
and legs drier.

Maybe I'm just a wimp: I'm so bad at this point I'm seriously considering a rat-tail [censored] catcher
for my mountain bike, and I expect to get dirty when I'm riding it.

Quoted message said:

Their weight is very low, and they can truly be installed and removed in less than two
minutes total.

Impressive. it would almost be worth it to have quick-remove fenders, but those things don't seem
to have any coverage ahead of the fork. I find that causes spray to be thrown up into my face,
which sucks.

-RjC.
--
Ryan Cousineau, [email hidden] sfu.ca~rcousineOpen ↗ President, Fabrizio Mazzoleni Fan Club

<[email hidden]> wrote in message
"]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Phillip Stevens said:

Does anyone know how low/tight a front fender needs to be to

keep

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

one's feet dry(er)?

Visualize a tangent line to the front tire that clears the

fender.

Quoted message said:

You'll notice that you can't safely make a fender that low or

it will

Quoted message said:

strike a curb when rolling off onto the street (of course some

folks

Quoted message said:

never do that) but it is a serious consideration. You'll need

a "mud

Quoted message said:

flap" to keep your feet out of front wheel spray that otherwise strikes the downtube that splits
it in two to water both feet.

Note that front fenders present a serious hazard for riding the

least

Quoted message said:

bit off road or on streets with "derailleur sticks" sticks that

are

Quoted message said:

just long enough to get tossed up into the wheel and jam on the

rear

Quoted message said:

fender brace. The result is that the fender is pulled securely

into

Quoted message said:

the tire to lock it solid and cause an endo as sure as dropping

a

Quoted message said:

cantilever brake straddle cable into a knobby tire.

I've seen it happen and have had one cause an endo with no

fender when

Quoted message said:

the stick came up against the fork and didn't break. Fender

braces do

Quoted message said:

not require as a strong a stick, the fender doing the forceful

work.

Ain't that the truth. I blew out a fender and had a minor crash a month or so ago after rolling
through a harmless-looking pile of blow-down. I ride over that sort of stuff all the time because
much of my daily commute is through a forested area -- but this was the first time I had a problem.
-- Jay Beattie.

Jose Rizal said:

Quoted message said:

SKS' full front fender has braces which clip on to a plastic mount screwed to the fork. It takes
relatively little force to unclip the braces; however the fender is also fixed in place by a
screw at the fork crown.

Frank Krygowski said:

An alternate mounting system that's been used is to run the fender stays not to the dropout, but
to a point midway up the fork - say, to a low-rider mounting boss. Supposedly, this causes the
fender to pivot away from the tire, not into it, in the event it swallows a stick.

My new Thorn Raven is set up this way.

See: sjscycles.comraven.htmOpen ↗

High-mounted mudguard eyelets have been relatively common on better quality British bikes for a
long time.

Sheldon "Mudguards" Brown +-----------------------------------------------------+
| Life is the art of drawing sufficient conclusions | from insufficient premises. --Samuel Butler |
+-----------------------------------------------------+ Harris Cyclery, West Newton, Massachusetts
Phone 617-244-9772 FAX 617-244-1041 harriscyclery.comharriscyclery.comOpen ↗ Hard-to-find parts shipped Worldwide
captainbike.comcaptainbike.comOpen ↗ sheldonbrown.comsheldonbrown.comOpen ↗

Ryan Cousineau said:

In Vancouver, fenders with extension flaps front and rear are mandatory on most group rides

Not on rando rides 🙁 In the spring series there's a half hour time penalty for having no fenders,
but a lot of riders still ride without them. These are the riders I inevitably end up behind, if
it's raining. This was particularly bad during the Fleche last spring, where I ended up riding in 4
degree centigrade temperatures in the rain for the first 5 hours behind unbefendered teammates.

p.s. I'm itching to start riding regularly again. I've barely been on the bike for the last
three months.

--
Benjamin Lewis

Accordion, n.: A bagpipe with pleats.

It really helps. In particular, if you can get it really close to the ground, so that it's nearly
touching, it makes a HUGE difference!

My duct-tape solutionl, posted earlier in this thread, really lends itself to this. The light-weight
nature of the duct-tape and/or plastic piece allows you to extend your front/rear flaps basically to
the ground. Rubber solutions work ok, but if the rear fender doesn't extend beyond the 9 o'clock
position of the wheel, it's pretty tough to make one of these hang very far w/o hitting the tire.

I've had really good success with the newer SKS front-release do-hicky, it's saved my skin a couple
of times. I also managed to have a small crash years ago, with the old system...

-pete

"dvt" <[email hidden]> wrote in message "]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

MSA said:

I fitted SKS raceblades back in Oct 2003...

Quoted message said:

Rear guard does not come down far enough to the rear if riding in a pack. My training group
complained so much that I made a mudflap which solved the problem.

Quoted message said:

For pictures of the Raceblades fitted to my Winter training bike go to:
msa.cyclist.btinternet.co.ukmy fondriest.htmOpen ↗

Does that mudflap really help the people behind you stay dry? I have ridden in packs with folks
with regular fenders, and it seems that the rear fender would have to extend much lower than your
flap in order to keep the next rider dry. Maybe the flap just helps with the spray in the face?

Dave dvt at psu dot edu

Frank Krygowski:

Quoted message said:

Jose Rizal said:

SKS' full front fender has braces which clip on to a plastic mount screwed to the fork. It takes
relatively little force to unclip the braces; however the fender is also fixed in place by a
screw at the fork crown.

An alternate mounting system that's been used is to run the fender stays not to the dropout, but
to a point midway up the fork - say, to a low-rider mounting boss. Supposedly, this causes the
fender to pivot away from the tire, not into it, in the event it swallows a stick.

Certainly a better idea, which may have one wondering why many forks have fender eyelets located at
the dropout.

Quoted message said:

Jose Rizal said:

Quoted message said:

SKS' full front fender has braces which clip on to a plastic mount screwed to the fork. It
takes relatively little force to unclip the braces; however the fender is also fixed in place
by a screw at the

fork

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

crown.

Frank Krygowski said:

An alternate mounting system that's been used is to run the fender stays not to the dropout, but
to a point midway up the fork - say, to a low-rider mounting boss. Supposedly, this causes the
fender to pivot away from the tire, not into it, in the event it swallows a stick.

Quoted message said:

"Sheldon Brown" <[email hidden]> wrote My new Thorn Raven is set up this way.

See: sjscycles.comraven.htmOpen ↗

High-mounted mudguard eyelets have been relatively common on better quality British bikes for a
long time.

Couldn't the same safety / performance effect be achieved by mounting a SKS front fender on the
downtube? I'm imagining two braze-ons at the tangent point, with an internal rib inside the fender
down to about hub level. The SKS fender doesn't straighten easily, but tends to twist first. A light
flat alu rib laid inside and bolted at the end would prevent the twist caused by wind or water load.
There've been some great suggestion re. mud flaps which I'd follow too. I think this fender would
look cool, just hanging there kinda like magic...

Has this idea been tried, and abandoned? What am I missing?

NOSPAM:

Quoted message said:

Couldn't the same safety / performance effect be achieved by mounting a SKS front fender on the
downtube? I'm imagining two braze-ons at the tangent point, with an internal rib inside the fender
down to about hub level. The SKS fender doesn't straighten easily, but tends to twist first. A
light flat alu rib laid inside and bolted at the end would prevent the twist caused by wind or
water load. There've been some great suggestion re. mud flaps which I'd follow too. I think this
fender would look cool, just hanging there kinda like magic...

Has this idea been tried, and abandoned? What am I missing?

This fender will work only when the front wheel is in the same plane as the downtube (ie handlebar
pointed dead straight ahead). A slight turn and the wheel will splash muck onto the areas either
side of the downtube, which means the cranks, pedals, your feet and face. It's better to have the
fender follow the wheel's movements.

Jose Rizal said:

Frank Krygowski:

Quoted message said:

Jose Rizal said:

SKS' full front fender has braces which clip on to a plastic mount screwed to the fork. It takes
relatively little force to unclip the braces; however the fender is also fixed in place by a
screw at the fork crown.

An alternate mounting system that's been used is to run the fender stays not to the dropout, but
to a point midway up the fork - say, to a low-rider mounting boss. Supposedly, this causes the
fender to pivot away from the tire, not into it, in the event it swallows a stick.

Certainly a better idea, which may have one wondering why many forks have fender eyelets located
at the dropout.

1. Its the obvious place

2. They are forged as part of the dropout and so require no extra work for the frame builder.

--
Andy Morris

AndyAtJinkasDotFreeserve.Co.UK

Love this:
Put an end to Outlook Express's messy quotes
home.in.tum.deoe quotefixOpen ↗

-snip mudguards-

Quoted message said:

<[email hidden]> wrote in message "]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

I've seen it happen and have had one cause an endo with no fender when the stick came up against
the fork and didn't break. Fender braces do not require as a strong a stick, the fender doing the
forceful work.

rosco said:

Hasn't SKS designed their lower front fender mounting hardware to break away in these situations?
Is their design at all effective in preventing this kind of situation?

Yes and it works beautifully. But it's still not 100%. The mudguard can fold under even with the
braces detached.

--
Andrew Muzi www.yellowjersey.org Open every day since 1 April, 1971

Quoted message said:

Mike, I'm thinking with that attitude, that rain is kind of an occasional thing where you live.

Rain is not the norm for the San Francisco area, but it's common enough that I'm often riding in it.
However, those of us in California have (thankfully) nowhere near the expertise in wet-weather
riding that our northern cousins do!

But for occasional use only as directed, Race Blades are great.

--Mike-- Chain Reaction Bicycles chainreactionbicycles.comchainreactionbicycles.comOpen ↗

"Ryan Cousineau" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:rcousine-
[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

In article <[email hidden]>, "Mike Jacoubowsky/Chain Reaction

Bicycles said:

Quoted message said:

This is an interesting set-up that side-steps the problem of lack of clearance on a racing
bike:

cyclingnews.comfeatures.phpOpen ↗ et

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

up

Quoted message said:

Is this "home-made" or is it available in stores/online?

As others have mentioned, those are SKS Race Blades, and are

*excellent.*

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Finally, a fender I'm willing to use! They work on both my Iron Pig

('72

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Cinelli that serves as my rain bike) and my 5900. I always thought

fenders

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

were more hassle than they were worth, what the heck, you'll just get

wet

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

anyway even with fenders if you're out there for a while, right? Yes,

no, I

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

dunno... I do know that riding in the rain is definitely more pleasant & less messy when I have
the Race Blades on.

Mike, I'm thinking with that attitude, that rain is kind of an occasional thing where you live.

In Vancouver, fenders with extension flaps front and rear are mandatory on most group rides
(offenders are permitted to ride, but have to stay at the back of the paceline). I won a citizen's
race last year riding my Pinarello when it still had its fenders on, and some serious riders do
early-season races on befendered bikes.

I commute almost every day, and bought a cheap Bianchi as a dedicated rain/commuter bike for this
purpose.

The only time the fenders are a major hassle is when I'm trying to load the bike into my Tercel.
Even then, much blame has to go to the tail rack and attached lunchbox, which make loading and
unloading a fender-bending experience.

The amount of wet you get with and without fenders is vastly different. In the first order, just
not having a rat-tail of water sprayed up your back keeps you much warmer and drier. Next, decent
fenders that cover down to the bottom bracket and come low in the front do a lot to keep your feet
and legs drier.

Maybe I'm just a wimp: I'm so bad at this point I'm seriously considering a rat-tail [censored] catcher
for my mountain bike, and I expect to get dirty when I'm riding it.

Quoted message said:

Their weight is very low, and they can truly be installed and removed in less than two minutes
total.

Impressive. it would almost be worth it to have quick-remove fenders, but those things don't seem
to have any coverage ahead of the fork. I find that causes spray to be thrown up into my face,
which sucks.

-RjC.
--
Ryan Cousineau, [email hidden] sfu.ca~rcousineOpen ↗ President, Fabrizio Mazzoleni Fan Club