Fat Guy Biking - *Long* Last Question (?!)

"Albert N. Mouse" <[email hidden]> wrote in message "]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Anyone have any experience with these bikes they'd like to share? At

this

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point, I'm leaning towards buying the Hardrock (~$330) based on the dealer advice and paying some
extra $$ to upgrade some of the hardware out of the box... Appearantly, the derailleurs are weak
and I should be able to

upgrade

Quoted message said:

them well and stay within the price window I've set. Perhaps look at different forks as well?

I quite like the hardrock as a general purpose bike because you can still get the rigid
forked version.

The gears - aren't they alivio (?perhaps older models) or acera now? Deore might be nicer and better
built, but I personally would save the money for something else.

"Albert N. Mouse" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
"]news:[email hidden]... <snip>

Quoted message said:

My dealer recommeded the Hardrock, though according to reviews on the website there are often
issues with the front suspension. With my weight,

I

Quoted message said:

don't want to have a problem. Co-workers have recommended the Raleigh

(good

Quoted message said:

components, but the dealer says not as well constructed as they used to

be)

Quoted message said:

and the Trek (no one can really tell me what's so great about the Trek).

Anyone have any experience with these bikes they'd like to share? At

this

Quoted message said:

point, I'm leaning towards buying the Hardrock (~$330) based on the dealer advice and paying some
extra $$ to upgrade some of the hardware out of the box... Appearantly, the derailleurs are weak
and I should be able to

upgrade

Quoted message said:

them well and stay within the price window I've set. Perhaps look at different forks as well?

Mr. Mouse,

The typical front fork is set to deal with a weight somewhere between 150 to 180 lbs. If you are
outside this range, you will need to upgrade the internals of the fork to deal with your weight.
After bottoming out my fork on a regular basis (at a particularly svelt weight of 210), a new set of
elastomers and springs was the only solution. If you are going to spend money on upgrades, this is
where it should be spent. Or the alternative - have them remove the suspension fork and replace it
with a rigid fork. There are some advantages to this, mainly in maintenance. You will also have less
energy loss due to suspension "bobbing" as you pedal along. But if your goal is weight loss, this
might not be such a bad thing. It also works as a feedback mechanism that will help you recognize
when you are not pedalling smoothly. The smooter the pedal strokes, the less bobbing will occur.

As for the derailler upgrades, I wouldn't worry about them. If a part breaks, replace it with
something nicer. It is unlikely that it will break. Shifting equipment, even the low end, has
improved so much that any level will suit your needs. Your weight will have nothing to do with how
the chain is moved from cog to cog. Although there are some advantages to moving up the product
line, most of those are seen in long-term durability (different kinds of bushings) and
lighter-weight parts (to the tune of a few grams weight savings between models). For your first
bike, neither of these should be an issue.

So, your biggest concerns should be getting a correct fit, dealing with that suspension fork, making
sure the shop knows how to properly stress-relieve the wheels, and getting the right kind of tires
for your intended use.

Good luck, Buck

"Buck" <j u n k m a i l @ g a l a x y c o r p . c o m> wrote in message
"]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

"Albert N. Mouse" <[email hidden]> wrote in message "]news:[email hidden]...
The typical front fork is set to deal with a weight somewhere between 150

to

Quoted message said:

180 lbs. If you are outside this range, you will need to upgrade the internals of the fork to deal
with your weight. After bottoming out my

fork

Quoted message said:

on a regular basis (at a particularly svelt weight of 210), a new set of elastomers and springs
was the only solution. If you are going to spend money on upgrades, this is where it should be
spent. Or the alternative - have them remove the suspension fork and replace it with a rigid fork.

Buck,

Thanks for the post...

I am definately outside that weight range (prolly by 100lbs or so) so your comments are most
helpful. Since I might use the bike on packed trails, is there a particular fork or setup that you'd
reccomend?

Thanks much.

Mouse

"Albert N. Mouse" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:b9ocr5

Quoted message said:

Thanks for the post...

I am definately outside that weight range (prolly by 100lbs or so) so your comments are most
helpful. Since I might use the bike on packed trails,

is

Quoted message said:

there a particular fork or setup that you'd reccomend?

Mouse,

If you are sure that you want to stick with the suspension fork, have a nice long conversation with
them about what is necessary to set up the fork for your weight. If they say it will handle your
weight without modification, look for another shop. I don't know about the RST fork on the Hardrock,
but the RockShox fork on the Hardrock Comp can be upgraded through elastomer and spring kits. The
shop should be able to order and install the kit. Keep in mind that highest spring rate is for ">
260 lbs." If your weight is much more than that, you may still have problems. At least with the
combination of springs and elastomers, you will not feel the "clunk" when the fork bottoms. The
progressive rate of the elastomers will prevent that. Take a look at the RockShox website for more
information.

The Judy TT is an entry-level fork that has no damping other than the friction of the elastomers on
the sliding parts. It won't be much more than a glorified spring on the front of your bike. To get a
true shock with damping, you will need to spend some money on an upgrade. It may cost you several
hundred dollars, certainly our of your stated price range. I'm sure the RST is even lower down the
fork food chain.

-Buck

Quoted message said:

My dealer recommeded the Hardrock, though according to reviews on the website there are often
issues with the front suspension. With my weight,

I

Quoted message said:

don't want to have a problem. Co-workers have recommended the Raleigh

(good

Quoted message said:

components, but the dealer says not as well constructed as they used to

be)

Quoted message said:

and the Trek (no one can really tell me what's so great about the Trek).

The TREK 4500 has a fork that is capable of re-springing for your weight, and is generally a
no-nonsense off-road bike that's low on flash but high on basic capability. The darned things fly
out the door and rarely come back with issues. Dealers like that in a bike. TREK also is the best in
the business as far as warranty goes, but your dealer still represents the most important part of
that equation, not just because they help determine what's warranty and what's not, but also because
it's up to the dealer to make sure your bike is set up properly for your intended use (which can
avoid "warranty" issues down the road).

It would be preferable to get a bike that, out of the box, is as appropriate as possible. Reduces
the finger-pointing down the road if there's an issue. Also, a bike that comes with the better
components in places you can see may also have better components in areas you cannot (such as the
bottom bracket and quality of spokes and wheel build). This is not always the case however; some
bikes are masters at smoke & mirrors and will put a high-end piece in a place people notice (like a
higher-end rear derailleur) and keep everything else cheap. That's dumb. You're better off with a
higher-quality bottom bracket and wheelset than rear derailleur.

--Mike-- Chain Reaction Bicycles chainreactionbicycles.comchainreactionbicycles.comOpen ↗

Buck' j u n k m a i l @ g a l a x y c o r p . c o m said:

The typical front fork is set to deal with a weight somewhere between 150 to 180 lbs

If true that's outrageous. I'm about 180 and absolutely not overweight.

Guy
===
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dynamic DNS permitting)
NOTE: BT Openworld have now blocked port 25 (without notice), so old mail addresses may no longer
work. Apologies.

"Just zis Guy, you know?" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
"]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Buck' j u n k m a i l @ g a l a x y c o r p . c o m said:

The typical front fork is set to deal with a weight somewhere between 150

to

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

180 lbs

If true that's outrageous. I'm about 180 and absolutely not overweight.

No one said anything about being overweight. Rockshox ship with a pair of red springs, rated for a
rider of 160 to 180 lbs. You can change out the springs for heavier or lighter riders.

Of course, this doesn't apply to air shocks.

Don't be so sensitive!

🙂

-Buck

Albert, I've followed the advice you've got. Listen to Mike below--everything I've read from him is
candid and honest--as far as I know.

The only thing I can add is that frames are rarely a problem, but wheels can be. Some entry level
bikes have weak wheels.

One last thing, you are very heavy but you sound like you are not going to be smashing curves and
flying off cliffs. The 180 pound rider doing a jump puts a lot of stress on a bike, especially the
fork and wheels.

Alan Acock

--
Alan C. Acock [email hidden] [email hidden] orst.eduacockOpen ↗ "Mike
Jacoubowsky" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
"]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

My dealer recommeded the Hardrock, though according to reviews on the website there are often
issues with the front suspension. With my

weight,

Quoted message said:

I

Quoted message said:

don't want to have a problem. Co-workers have recommended the Raleigh

(good

Quoted message said:

components, but the dealer says not as well constructed as they used to

be)

Quoted message said:

and the Trek (no one can really tell me what's so great about the Trek).

The TREK 4500 has a fork that is capable of re-springing for your weight, and is generally a
no-nonsense off-road bike that's low on flash but high

on

Quoted message said:

basic capability. The darned things fly out the door and rarely come back with issues. Dealers
like that in a bike. TREK also is the best in the business as far as warranty goes, but your
dealer still represents the

most

Quoted message said:

important part of that equation, not just because they help determine

what's

Quoted message said:

warranty and what's not, but also because it's up to the dealer to make

sure

Quoted message said:

your bike is set up properly for your intended use (which can avoid "warranty" issues down
the road).

It would be preferable to get a bike that, out of the box, is as

appropriate

Quoted message said:

as possible. Reduces the finger-pointing down the road if there's an

issue.

Quoted message said:

Also, a bike that comes with the better components in places you can see

may

Quoted message said:

also have better components in areas you cannot (such as the bottom

bracket

Quoted message said:

and quality of spokes and wheel build). This is not always the case however; some bikes are
masters at smoke & mirrors and will put a high-end piece in a place people notice (like a
higher-end rear derailleur) and

keep

Quoted message said:

everything else cheap. That's dumb. You're better off with a higher-quality bottom bracket and
wheelset than rear derailleur.

--Mike-- Chain Reaction Bicycles chainreactionbicycles.comchainreactionbicycles.comOpen ↗

"Albert N. Mouse" <[email hidden]> wrote

Quoted message said:

Any feedback, suggestions, and the like is greatly appreciated as before!
🙂 Thanks everyone again for taking the time to lend a hand. Hopefully
I'll be able to give back soon.

I have a 99 Hardrock which has served well for several thousand miles. On and off road,
summer, winter, whatever. Only problem I've hasd was a bent rim, from waaaay too low tire
pressure, and a curb.

I'm nowhere near your weight, but it's a tough bike.

Pete

"Alan C. Acock" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:LAWva.824285

Quoted message said:

The only thing I can add is that frames are rarely a problem, but wheels

can

Quoted message said:

be. Some entry level bikes have weak wheels.

One last thing, you are very heavy but you sound like you are not going to be smashing curves and
flying off cliffs. The 180 pound rider doing a jump puts a lot of stress on a bike, especially the
fork and wheels.

As I said in my other posts, make sure they know how to stress-relieve and re-tension the wheels.
All it takes is a poor landing from a poorly executed bunny-hop in a parking lot and a poorly built
wheel will be tweaked. Yes, I learned this one the hard way while on my first mountain bike. Make
sure those wheels are set up right!

-Buck

Buck said:

If you are sure that you want to stick with the suspension fork, have a nice long conversation
with them about what is necessary to set up the fork for your weight. If they say it will
handle your weight without modification, look for another shop. .... RST fork ... RockShox fork
...Judy TT ...

Hey! How about a tandem fork? (Doing the math, ANM might weigh close to 300 lbs.)

--Karen M.

Quoted message said:

Thanks for the post...

I am definately outside that weight range (prolly by 100lbs or so) so your comments are most
helpful. Since I might use the bike on packed trails,

is

Quoted message said:

there a particular fork or setup that you'd reccomend?

Thanks much.

Mouse

I don't have any specific recommendation on these bikes or forks, but if you can upgrade to a
stronger fork or with one where you could lock the suspension, that could be good. Likewise, having
the suspension replaced by a rigid fork will make the bike lighter (useful if you bring it up a
flight of stairs) and more maintenance free.

For hard trails like the typical bike trail in packed gravel or asphalt and for streets, I think
you'll get the most comfort from good smooth tires (700x37 to 47, or 26" x 1.75 to 2"😉. Having
smooth tires (commonly called "slicks"😉 instead of the usual knobby tires will also offer a very
good improvement: less road noise (buzz) on asphalt, 2-3 extra mph for the same effort and better
control of the bike in tight turns. If you plan to ride in snow or mud, keep the knobbies either as
extra tires or on the bike; otherwise, have the shop swap tires, which they will probably do for
free or cheaply while the bike is new.

There are other upgrades and accessories to add:

- Fenders: they are nice because they keep you clean. Check that there is enough clearance around
the brakes, forks and stays to install them, and check that you have eyelets near the front and
rear hubs to install them. You might want to save money by not installing fenders now, but they
are great for you and your bike in any but dry, sunny conditions.

- Rear rack : same comment.

Regards,

Michel Gagnon

Buck' j u n k m a i l @ g a l a x y c o r p . c o m said:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

The typical front fork is set to deal with a weight somewhere between 150 180 lbs

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

If true that's outrageous. I'm about 180 and absolutely not overweight.

Quoted message said:

No one said anything about being overweight ... Don't be so sensitive!

OK. Although I can't imagine that huge numbers of our American cousins are going to be much lighter
than me, per unit height ;-)

Guy
===
** WARNING ** This posting may contain traces of irony. chapmancentral.comchapmancentral.comOpen ↗ (BT ADSL and
dynamic DNS permitting)
NOTE: BT Openworld have now blocked port 25 (without notice), so old mail addresses may no longer
work. Apologies.

Quoted message said:

Buck' j u n k m a i l @ g a l a x y c o r p . c o m said:

Quoted message said:

>The typical front fork is set to deal with a weight somewhere between

150

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

>180 lbs

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

If true that's outrageous. I'm about 180 and absolutely not overweight.

Not to worry. Just don't sit on the front fork.