Fassa Bortolo cleared by TDF

Interesting little medical tidbit about micro-managed EPO usage, rendering its usage vritually undetectable even during stage-races like Tdf:
http://www.procycling.com/news.aspx?ID=1419

procycling.comnews.aspxOpen ↗ - [font=Verdana]this was an infesting article with comments from Moncoutié regarding the differences between DL and TDF and why there are such large improvements in some cyclists. (as a hint… gear !)
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Flyer said:

Coverups are great. So effortless too.

Without any concern or investigation, the official Tour Management position is that this latest discovery of EPO, hGH and other illegal substances are a Frigo specific doping matter. (family affair ex-team)

Fasso Bortolo is presumed clean and can keep racing so that there can be a race.

If doping compliance were enforced there would not be any riders.

Doping is so terrific---you just deny it--and it goes away---until the next death, bust, overzealous housekeeper or horse hormone kicks up.

Like maybe tomorrow.

Let's hope Frigo rats out his rotten Director, Ferritti.

Thanks whitetrash:

But we must remember that David Moncoutie's polished image as a 'holistic' rider is in stark contrast to the fact that his EMPLOYER is TEAM COFIDIS.

Cofidis has been a dirty team from the beginning. It was a dirty team when it offered Lance Armstrong a ride for 1997.

It was dirty when they held up Frank Vandenbrocke as the 'new Eddie Merckx'. Or David Millar as a World Champion TTer.

Cofidis is fully committed to doping. Nobody on their payroll is credible. I would never rely upon David Moncoutie for doping confirmations, and or explanations. If so, we then ought to wheel out David Millar for Eprex disposal and easy EPO test clearances.

The riders were doped in the DL too, maybe not the sames toxic doses, but still medicated.

whiteboytrash said:

procycling.comnews.aspxOpen ↗ - [font=Verdana]this was an infesting article with comments from Moncoutié regarding the differences between DL and TDF and why there are such large improvements in some cyclists. (as a hint… gear !)
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[font=Verdana]Cheers Flyer; On another thread I raised why there is such vast improvements in LA and the Discovery team when most of them have done little to no racing all year....

….my only comparison was to the East German and Soviet sports camps where athletes were trained on the juice without competition for long periods of time then let loose on the Olympics recording phenomenal times.... I hope this is not the case but I still cannot explain how the Discovery riders can ride day in day out on the front of the peleton at the pace they do..... its just to possible to do that… why do riders like Heras who did this job for 3 years is now a complete nobody ?

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Flyer said:

Thanks whitetrash:

But we must remember that David Moncoutie's polished image as a 'holistic' rider is in stark contrast to the fact that his EMPLOYER is TEAM COFIDIS.

Cofidis has been a dirty team from the beginning. It was a dirty team when it offered Lance Armstrong a ride for 1997.

It was dirty when they held up Frank Vandenbrocke as the 'new Eddie Merckx'. Or David Millar as a World Champion TTer.

Cofidis is fully committed to doping. Nobody on their payroll is credible. I would never rely upon David Moncoutie for doping confirmations, and or explanations. If so, we then ought to wheel out David Millar for Eprex disposal and easy EPO test clearances.

The riders were doped in the DL too, maybe not the sames toxic doses, but still medicated.

Smells like secret sauce to me.

A work ethic theme won't expain why Landis, Heras, Livingston et al go from highs to lows in one year.

Or how George Hincapie at his late age---can suddenly time trial and climb mountains. He does no special TT work. Is it all just Hydrogen Peroxide flushes? (H2O2)

Me thinks, something is very wrong with these performances.

whiteboytrash said:

[font=Verdana]Cheers Flyer; On another thread I raised why there is such vast improvements in LA and the Discovery team when most of them have done little to no racing all year....

….my only comparison was to the East German and Soviet sports camps where athletes were trained on the juice without competition for long periods of time then let loose on the Olympics recording phenomenal times.... I hope this is not the case but I still cannot explain how the Discovery riders can ride day in day out on the front of the peleton at the pace they do..... its just to possible to do that… why do riders like Heras who did this job for 3 years is now a complete nobody ?

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[font=Verdana].....I know this may upset people who say we all should just enjoy the cycling without the speculation but on Tuesday I cannot as many of the riders could not explain how Discovery rode so fast all day long... it’s just not humanly possible to ride at that speed for over four hours on the back of doing it for the past week..... especially when 90% of the team has barley raced or even registered a result bar Hincapie and Savaldelli….

...we will only find out in five years if they all start dying of heart conditions.

.....if they keep doing the same on Saturday and Sunday then I'm going to find another passion.

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Flyer said:

Smells like secret sauce to me.

A work ethic theme won't expain why Landis, Heras, Livingston et al go from highs to lows in one year.

Or how George Hincapie at his late age---can suddenly time trial and climb mountains. He does no special TT work. Is it all just Hydrogen Peroxide flushes? (H2O2)

Me thinks, something is very wrong with these performances.

whiteboytrash said:

[font=Verdana].....I know this may upset people who say we all should just enjoy the cycling without the speculation but on Tuesday I cannot as many of the riders could not explain how Discovery rode so fast all day long... it’s just not humanly possible to ride at that speed for over four hours on the back of doing it for the past week..... especially when 90% of the team has barley raced or even registered a result bar Hincapie and Savaldelli….

...we will only find out in five years if they all start dying of heart conditions.

.....if they keep doing the same on Saturday and Sunday then I'm going to find another passion.

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Flyer says the whole peleton is doped. If so, then how can Discovery dominate like they do? If all the other teams are doped then they should be able to hang with Discovery. Is Discovery the only team that Dopes or do they have a magic dope that no one knows about?

Not sure I agree or disagree. All nine DC riders train to peak for July each year, even Hincapie. All of their performances can be explained in a realistic way, i.e. they don't win classics and they don't win the vuelta or the worlds. I think the fashion by which they control the peloton through the Alps keeping all of their men on the front is either because of talent and training (peaking for July) or they're filled with dope. The only reason that makes me believe they could be doped is that they hardly ever have bad day and are always consistent. I'm suprised that Salvodelli is still doing so well setting the pace given his Giro. If they romp up the Pyrenees in the same fashion then I'd get more dubious.

Flyer also said (if you care to read my posts) that not all teams and riders use the same 'go-fast juice' and medical protocols.

The Team Leaders always get the very best treatments--but not all teams have:

1) the financial budget
2) access to secret research drugs (only a handful of guinae pigs are selected)
3) the blood doping science and protocol.

In 1998 Mauro Gianetti was at the top of his game. On May 8, 1998 he was planning to win his Tour of Romandie---he was juiced on the very best stuff (very experiemental) PFC (peraflouracarbon)

Instead of adding The Tour of Romandie to his Liege Bastogne Liege and Amstel Gold Classic wins---his organs shut down one by one. He spent 10 days in ICU at a University Hospital.

Mauro Gianetti is now Chris Horner's boss at Saunier Duval.

Discovery has the 'magic sauce' that nobody else can get. Jealously guarded research brew.

Same story for 7 years.

Livingston, Hincapie, Heras, Beltran, Landis all benefited when they were on the blue train. Now they are back with the others, fighting anemia trauma as best they can.

thebluetrain said:

Flyer says the whole peleton is doped. If so, then how can Discovery dominate like they do? If all the other teams are doped then they should be able to hang with Discovery. Is Discovery the only team that Dopes or do they have a magic dope that no one knows about?

Be dubious now!

No reason to wait.

Hincapie could not climb or TT except for 2005!!!!

That is not of a natural order.

Ullefan said:

Not sure I agree or disagree. All nine DC riders train to peak for July each year, even Hincapie. All of their performances can be explained in a realistic way, i.e. they don't win classics and they don't win the vuelta or the worlds. I think the fashion by which they control the peloton through the Alps keeping all of their men on the front is either because of talent and training (peaking for July) or they're filled with dope. The only reason that makes me believe they could be doped is that they hardly ever have bad day and are always consistent. I'm suprised that Salvodelli is still doing so well setting the pace given his Giro. If they romp up the Pyrenees in the same fashion then I'd get more dubious.

Flyer said:

Flyer also said (if you care to read my posts) that not all teams and riders use the same 'go-fast juice' and medical protocols.

The Team Leaders always get the very best treatments--but not all teams have:

1) the financial budget
2) access to secret research drugs (only a handful of guinae pigs are selected)
3) the blood doping science and protocol.

In 1998 Mauro Gianetti was at the top of his game. On May 8, 1998 he was planning to win his Tour of Romandie---he was juiced on the very best stuff (very experiemental) PFC (peraflouracarbon)

Instead of adding The Tour of Romandie to his Liege Bastogne Liege and Amstel Gold Classic wins---his organs shut down one by one. He spent 10 days in ICU at a University Hospital.

Mauro Gianetti is now Chris Horner's boss at Saunier Duval.

Discovery has the 'magic sauce' that nobody else can get. Jealously guarded research brew.

Same story for 7 years.

Livingston, Hincapie, Heras, Beltran, Landis all benefited when they were on the blue train. Now they are back with the others, fighting anemia trauma as best they can.

Flyer, I really dont care to read your posts. Its just that you post the same moronic jibberish so many times that I am forced to read some of them.

Your posts are lacking in insight and require great patience on my part.

But your inability to grasp hold of what you see means you have much to learn.

My understanding of your plight explains why I am able to tolerate your rude comments.

Keep plugging away.

thebluetrain said:

Flyer, I really dont care to read your posts. Its just that you post the same moronic jibberish so many times that I am forced to read some of them.

Flyer said:

Hincapie could not climb or TT except for 2005!!!!

Livingston, Hincapie, Heras, Beltran, Landis all benefited when they were on the blue train. Now they are back with the others, fighting anemia trauma as best they can..

Doesnt sound like someone who is back with the others fighting anemia trauma. Hincapie that is.

This is what Moncoutié said this morning.... he knows like everyone else but there is just no proof..... like I said we'll find out in 5 years time.......

(timesonline.co.uk0,,2841 1694714,00.htmlOpen ↗)

Moncoutié is one of a number of French riders who have expressed concern over ethics in the peloton this year. citing his struggle to keep pace in the mountain stages. “There’s no proof but I think people will be able to draw their own conclusions at the end of the Tour,” he said.

thebluetrain said:

Doesnt sound like someone who is back with the others fighting anemia trauma. Hincapie that is.

[font=Verdana]....some of you should look at Balco as a leading example. For years the [/font][font=Verdana]US[/font][font=Verdana] pointed the finger at the Soviets and there sports camps and little did we know that commercial organisations in the US were developing drugs (namely 'the clear'😉 and the methodologies to take them. They were way ahead of what the Europeans were doing......

[/font][font=Verdana]Montgomery[/font][font=Verdana], Marion Jones are fine examples of this along with entire Baseball league.... they all denied they were taking PED but we know better now…. We also know that the USA athletic association was casting a blind eye over positive tests in the 1988 Olympic trails and then allowed Ben Johnson to go down…… some one explain the death of Flo Jo and the constant extension of Carl Lewis’s jaw and his need to wear braces at the age of 33 and why he had teenage acne…..

If anyone has read Charlie Francis book ‘Speed Trap’ (former coach of Ben Johnson and Marion Jones) you will realise just how sophisticated the drugs are and also there methodologies to use them and beat drug tests….

I have also read [censored] Voight’s book (former masseur of Festina) and it was also very enlighten to the world that surround professional cycling… it was also scary what some humans are willing to do to their bodies…… if you had the choice of maybe chancing a win in the odd stage of the DL or becoming a highly paid domestique for Lance Armstrong, what career path would you take…..? it would be the difference of around €300,000 a year……… think about it….

I'm not suggesting that Disco are on the gear but they just can't be that far ahead of everyone else.... even in the Festina days no one team rode on the front like they have in 2005..... to this point nobody has given me a credible reason why….

I reckon if [/font][font=Verdana]Tyler[/font][font=Verdana] loses his appeal he will blow the roof on this stuff.....[/font]

thebluetrain said:

Flyer, I really dont care to read your posts. Its just that you post the same moronic jibberish so many times that I am forced to read some of them.

So...let me get this straight. You guys are saying that LA/Disco are to blame for being better at a game that everyone else is playing (doping) and that you and the French are [censored] about it...

sounds about right.

All riders have their individual limits of capability. When it comes to DC riding on the front all day through the Alps and then all day through the Pyrenees, it's just not natural for them to be capable of doing that, given they're no more talented than the rest of the peloton in the TDF, with the exception of Lance. Never has there been a team that has been so consistent to the point where it becomes inhuman of them given their talent compared to the rest is no different. Maybe they take something very natural and and not banned like neovite?

[font=Verdana]I agree, some forget that Hincapie actually got in a break in the first week with Voight on the day that Kloden attacked. Voight attacked the next day and was gone after that. Yet Hinapie is still going strong and riding over mountains and doing time time trials etc. and still going... not even Guarini a former d'Huez winner or Sevilla can keep up with the sprinter Hincapie in the mountains.... I mean come on ? and they will keep going through the [/font][font=Verdana]Pyrenees[/font][font=Verdana]....... are some of you not suspicious in the slightest ? Moncounte is.....
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Ullefan said:

All riders have their individual limits of capability. When it comes to DC riding on the front all day through the Alps and then all day through the Pyrenees, it's just not natural for them to be capable of doing that, given they're no more talented than the rest of the peloton in the TDF, with the exception of Lance. Never has there been a team that has been so consistent to the point where it becomes inhuman of them given their talent compared to the rest is no different. Maybe they take something very natural and and not banned like neovite?

I would probably be upset too if there was a GT in the US and no american had won it for almost 20 years....not sure how objective moncoutie or most of the frogs can be about le tour. (must be the drugs)

was happy to see a frenchman win on bastille day! good on em!