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FAQ on choosing a "clipless" pedal system

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17 May 2004
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Steve Freides
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  1. A friend is taking her bike in for an overhaul and, after seeing how
    much my wife and I like our Speedplay Frogs, is also interested in
    getting a "clipless" pedal system, which will be the first time for her.

    Is there an comparison of the various types of pedal systems out there
    suitable for the casual cyclotourist? My wife found SPD's hard to get
    in and out of but loves Frogs. The type of riding is nothing more than
    casual day trips, so being able to walk around is important. Money
    isn't particularly an issue except that she doesn't ride a lot and,
    while she owns a reasonably good enthusiast bike, it would be silly to
    spend several hundred dollars on shoes and pedals for her.

    Thanks in advance.

    -S-
    http://www.kbnj.com

  2. I'm a member of a touring group here in Cork, Ireland, for about 15 years.
    At that time when we started touring people used cleats or Look. Now all of
    us use SPDs. I've used them since the came in. The VP ones are fine, and
    cheaper.

  3. "Gearóid Ó Laoi/Garry Lee" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
    news:[email hidden]...

    Quoted message said:

    I'm a member of a touring group here in Cork, Ireland, for about 15


    years.

    Quoted message said:

    At that time when we started touring people used cleats or Look. Now


    all of

    Quoted message said:

    us use SPDs. I've used them since the came in. The VP ones are fine,


    and

    Quoted message said:

    cheaper.

    Thank you. Perhaps I need to clarify - my friend is going to get either
    SPD's, Frogs, or similar - I'm looking for something in writing that
    will explain the differences to her. She has definitely decided to go
    with a modern clipless pedal system, one that supports a recessed cleat.
    The question is only which one.

    -S-
    http://www.kbnj.com

  4. Steve Freides said:

    Thank you. Perhaps I need to clarify - my friend is going to get either
    SPD's, Frogs, or similar - I'm looking for something in writing that
    will explain the differences to her. She has definitely decided to go
    with a modern clipless pedal system, one that supports a recessed cleat.
    The question is only which one.

    For a casual cyclist: SPDs are the cheapest option, they work quite
    well, and you can get them with a variety of cycling shoes which _you
    can walk in_. The "I can walk in my shoes!" argument can trump
    everything else if you are just using the bike to get around...

    Chris
    --
    Chris Colohan Email: [email hidden] PGP: finger [email hidden]
    Web: www.colohan.com Phone: (412)268-4751

  5. Steve Freides wrote:

    << Thank you. Perhaps I need to clarify - my friend is going to get either
    SPD's, Frogs, or similar - I'm looking for something in writing that
    will explain the differences to her. She has definitely decided to go
    with a modern clipless pedal system, one that supports a recessed cleat.
    The question is only which one. >>

    I recommend the Time mtb pedals. Get the cheapest model, it is just the same as
    the expensive model except the pedal body is made of different material. These
    pedals cost a little more, but they are the simplest, most rugged, longest
    lasting, easiest to use, require no adjustment, work flawlessly in mud and ice,
    generally trouble-free piece of equipment. Which can NOT be said of cheap SPD
    pedals.

    Then get a 40$ pair of shoes and off she goes.

    Robert

  6. Christopher Brian Colohan <[email hidden]> wrote in
    news:[email hidden]:

    Quoted message said:

    For a casual cyclist: SPDs are the cheapest option, they work quite
    well, and you can get them with a variety of cycling shoes which _you
    can walk in_. The "I can walk in my shoes!" argument can trump
    everything else if you are just using the bike to get around...

    Any mountain bike clipless pedal system can be easily walked in. The biggest
    advantage of Shimano SPD is that you get pretty good quality for a low price.
    Some other systems offer better performance (especially in muddy conditions)
    or lower weight, but always at a higher price.

  7. I have Crank Brothers Eggbeaters and am happy with them. I don't see them
    on many bikes. Not sure why.

    Curt

    "Steve Freides" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
    news:[email hidden]...

    Quoted message said:

    A friend is taking her bike in for an overhaul and, after seeing how
    much my wife and I like our Speedplay Frogs, is also interested in
    getting a "clipless" pedal system, which will be the first time for her.

    Is there an comparison of the various types of pedal systems out there
    suitable for the casual cyclotourist? My wife found SPD's hard to get
    in and out of but loves Frogs. The type of riding is nothing more than
    casual day trips, so being able to walk around is important. Money
    isn't particularly an issue except that she doesn't ride a lot and,
    while she owns a reasonably good enthusiast bike, it would be silly to
    spend several hundred dollars on shoes and pedals for her.

    Thanks in advance.

    -S-
    http://www.kbnj.com

  8. "Steve Freides" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:<[email hidden]>...

    Quoted message said:

    A friend is taking her bike in for an overhaul and, after seeing how
    much my wife and I like our Speedplay Frogs, is also interested in
    getting a "clipless" pedal system, which will be the first time for her.

    Is there an comparison of the various types of pedal systems out there
    suitable for the casual cyclotourist? My wife found SPD's hard to get
    in and out of but loves Frogs. The type of riding is nothing more than
    casual day trips, so being able to walk around is important. Money
    isn't particularly an issue except that she doesn't ride a lot and,
    while she owns a reasonably good enthusiast bike, it would be silly to
    spend several hundred dollars on shoes and pedals for her.

    If she likes Frogs, get Frogs. If the thing she likes about Frogs is
    that they are double-sided, she might try this Nashbar ATB pedal:

    http://tinyurl.com/3dn7f

    It is SPD but I find them extremely easy to get in and out of because
    they are double sided. Then get some cheap ATB shoes and she's set for
    walking and riding for well under $100 total.

    There is an even cheaper Nashbar pedal. Don't get it, it's not SPD
    compatible.

    JP

  9. "Steve Freides" <> wrote in message news:[email hidden]...

    Quoted message said:

    My wife found SPD's hard to get
    in and out of but loves Frogs.

    You may want to look at the'multi-release' cleats that are available for SPD
    pedals: they're extremely easy to clip out of. Only thing to watch out for
    is wear - they get harder to clip out of when they're worn. OTOH, I just
    replced my cleats after 4 years and about 10,000 miles, so they don't wear
    fast.

    They don't come standard with SPD pedals, but have to be purchased
    separately, so your wife probably had standard SPD cleats.

    With these cleats, a feirly inexpensive set of pedals and shoes, and you're
    in business.

    --
    Richard Utt

  10. Steve Freides said:

    Is there an comparison of the various types of pedal systems out there
    suitable for the casual cyclotourist?

    I'm no expert, but a friend of mine asked me about clipless pedals about a
    year ago and I wrote him an email with my own personal analysis.

    It's probably neither complete nor fully accurate, but it's a comparison
    and it's for a casual rider.

    I'm sure folks all over are going to jump on me for things I wrote, but
    I'll post it anyway, just for fun.

    [By the way, I personally just switched from a pair of cheap SPD pedals
    (PD-M515) to a wonderful, amazing, beautiful, fantastic pair of pedals
    (PD-M959). The difference is night and day. I found my pair brand new at
    a local co-op for $100. If you are willing to spend the money (they
    retail for a fair bit more than that, but see what you can find), they are
    worth every penny. Not only do they clip in and out as smoothly as you
    could ever want, they turn like butter and are just a goddamn JOY to ride.
    I put them on my fixie and I swear it felt like I dropped my gear ratio.
    I'm just in love with them and won't hesitate to spend the bucks on great
    pedals.]

    Here goes (I'll attempt to read it and edit it right now, but remember I
    wrote it a year ago for somebody else whom I know well):

    Clipless systems consist of pedals and cleats that interlock and give you
    the ability to apply force to the cranks at every point in the stroke
    (even the back stroke at the bottom, which a clip will never give you).
    They're a little bit daunting because you actually have to consciously
    unclip your foot before taking it off the pedal and the truth is that you
    WILL fall down within the first few times you try to ride with these
    things. The cleats require special shoes, but mostly these days they've
    standardized enough that most cleats fit most shoes.

    There are many types of clipless pedal systems and they're all proprietary
    to some extent (though there is some licensing). They break down into
    walkable and unwalkable categories and have relative strengths.

    I just went online looking for a good comparison, but there wasn't
    anything apparent to me. Mostly, folks like what they have or what they
    used first and can only compare in one direction.

    Really, there are only four practical walkable types: Eggbeaters, Frogs,
    ATACs, and SPDs.

    Eggbeaters (from Crank Bros.) have a pedal that looks like an eggbeater
    with four blades. The cool thing about them is that they are mechanically
    super simple and essentially have four "sides" for connecting to the
    cleat, whereas most have two. The drawback is that they're a bit less
    common and expensive and I don't know anybody that actually uses them to
    attest to their walkability, though they have "road" and "MTB" (mountain
    bike) cleats which might say something about walkability. They do now
    have a platform petal which makes NOT clipping in sometimes workable.
    (Mike has these, but he's not really happy with them.)
    <URL: http://www.crankbros.com/ >

    Frogs by Speedplay are an attempt to adapt a popular fancy road pedal to
    more practical wet/dry, walkable pedals. There's only two models from one
    manufacturer. The cleats are more expensive if you have more than one
    pair of shoes, but only one set of pedals. Some people really like them
    because they're light and they look cool. The other Speedplay pedals look
    better, to my eyes, but they're not really walkable. There's a new cleat
    for the Frog line that's supposedly totally compatible with standard
    (we'll see in a moment what that means) shoes.
    <URL: http://www.speedplay.com/ >

    ATACs from Time are considered the sort of "high performance"
    multi-purpose system. They're a bit more expensive, but they're lighter
    and they don't come in a non-durable low-end. As with all the others, the
    cleats fit just fine in standard shoes. They're not as adjustable as some
    others, but they claim they don't have to be. My friend Michael Wolfe
    (who rode his recumbent from Portland to Boston, as I've said a billion
    times) swore by them, but now he rides eggbeaters.
    <URL: http://www.timesportusa.com/ >

    SPDs from Shimano are the most common type of pedal. Shimano is the
    leading maker of bicycle components and equipment, so this shouldn't be a
    surprise. As with everything is the industry, "standard" means the way
    Shimano does it (except in cases where Shimano stupidly patented something
    that could easily be done another way). So you'll find that shoes made
    for ANY walkable cleat will be called "SPD shoes", regardless of which
    system you use. There are two SPD systems. There's the regular SPD
    that's general use (like I use -- sometimes called MTB) and there's SPD-R
    for road racing and track and stuff. The second isn't really walkable and
    you'll see the difference immediately. Nothing confusing about it,
    really, except the name. SPDs are recessed enough in the shoe that you
    can actually make a shoe where the cleat never touches the ground...
    granted, such a shoe might not be compatible with some of the more
    hybrid-type pedals without a little cutting away of sole. There's a kind
    of staggering variety of pedals available for SPDs. I've heard bad things
    about the knock-offs and have always had good luck with the Shimano brand
    (three pair, so far... all different). Cleats are essentially the same
    way: stick with the brand name. They license somewhat promiscuously.
    Anyway, that's what most folks use and it's good enough... but it's a bit
    like buying into the monopoly... then again, it's also can be done cheap
    and works Just Fine.
    <URL: http://www.shimano.com/ >

  11. In rec.bicycles.misc Steve Freides said:

    Is there an comparison of the various types of pedal systems out there
    suitable for the casual cyclotourist? My wife found SPD's hard to get
    in and out of but loves Frogs. The type of riding is nothing more than
    casual day trips, so being able to walk around is important. Money
    isn't particularly an issue except that she doesn't ride a lot and,
    while she owns a reasonably good enthusiast bike, it would be silly to
    spend several hundred dollars on shoes and pedals for her.

    If she likes the frogs keep this in mind. Speedplay in the last year and a
    half changed the cleat design for the frogs in order for them to fit more
    shoes. Many people have found the new "Frog II" cleat to be much more
    difficult to clip into. I don't know if this is going to be an issue for you,
    but her old frog cleats will still work with the new frog pedals. Compared to
    the frogs not many other pedals on the market have nearly as much
    float. SPDs have just a few degrees of float and the spring tension tends to
    not allow the foot to rotate much.

    Any pedal system that requires a road shoe will not be suitable as non
    recessed cleats and hard plastic soles are horrible to walk on for all but
    the shortest distances. That includes speedplay X2's, Look, and Shimano
    SPD-R/SPD-SL.

    Budgetwise SPD and it's many clones are the cheapest, as are mountain bike
    shoes.

    --
    ---
    Eric Yagerlener
    remove "usenet" from email address to reply

  12. Why not just get Frogs? If the friend doesn't like them, you can buy
    them from him/her.

  13. "Steve Freides" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:<[email hidden]>...

    Quoted message said:

    A friend is taking her bike in for an overhaul and, after seeing how
    much my wife and I like our Speedplay Frogs, is also interested in
    getting a "clipless" pedal system, which will be the first time for her.

    Is there an comparison of the various types of pedal systems out there
    suitable for the casual cyclotourist? My wife found SPD's hard to get
    in and out of but loves Frogs. The type of riding is nothing more than
    casual day trips, so being able to walk around is important. Money
    isn't particularly an issue except that she doesn't ride a lot and,
    while she owns a reasonably good enthusiast bike, it would be silly to
    spend several hundred dollars on shoes and pedals for her.

    Steve,

    My take is as follows:

    SPD is cheapest and ubiquitous. The competing systems have their
    virtues, but there's no point paying for what you don't need. You'll
    find SPD pedals for as low as $40-50 a pair; you'll pay at least $80
    if not $120 for any of the others.

    Time ATAC is better for clearing mud and snow. If your friend is
    staying mostly onroad (true?), this probably doesn't matter. I have
    heard that they are both easier and harder to get into than SPD.
    Hmmm. Depending on model, Times may have more float, if float is an
    issue.

    Eggbeaters' 4-sided entry probably is easier to get into for an uphill
    start on tricky singletrack or with four full panniers. But, for your
    friend's purposes, double-sided stomp-on SPDs are likely easy enough
    to get into.

    Frogs have "unlimited" float. Great if you need it. Expensive if you
    don't.

    I have the single-sided A515 SPDs on two bikes and like them a lot.
    For me, kicking the pedal over is no big deal, but I grew up in the
    toeclip era. Most people prefer double-sided pedals for ease of
    entry, whether on MTBs or on road bikes.

    Best Regards,

    Peter Storey

  14. [email hidden] (R15757) wrote in message news:<[email hidden]>...

    Quoted message said:

    Steve Freides wrote:

    << Thank you. Perhaps I need to clarify - my friend is going to get either
    SPD's, Frogs, or similar - I'm looking for something in writing that
    will explain the differences to her. She has definitely decided to go
    with a modern clipless pedal system, one that supports a recessed cleat.
    The question is only which one. >>

    I recommend the Time mtb pedals. Get the cheapest model, it is just the same as
    the expensive model except the pedal body is made of different material. These
    pedals cost a little more, but they are the simplest, most rugged, longest
    lasting, easiest to use, require no adjustment, work flawlessly in mud and ice,
    generally trouble-free piece of equipment. Which can NOT be said of cheap SPD
    pedals.

    I'd never recommend cheap pedals! I agree with your comments on Time
    pedals. One further advantage of the Time ATAC system is that they, in
    common with their road pedals, provide lateral float.

    LGF

  15. (LGF) said:

    I'd never recommend cheap pedals! I agree with your comments on Time
    pedals. One further advantage of the Time ATAC system is that they, in
    common with their road pedals, provide lateral float.

    Cheap Time pedals may be sub-optimal, but cheap SPDs are great. The
    $20 Nashbar Special SPDs I have work and feel every bit as good as
    my Shimano SPDs and my Egg Beaters.

    For somebody new to clipless, hybrid-clipless pedals may be
    comforting, like these:
    http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/B0001X2DCO/002-0641744-8751208

    For some reason, they're not showing on nashbar.com, but they
    usually go for $29.
    --
    Rick Onanian

  16. Hello All,
    I bought Shimano 324 pedals for both my bikes and they came standard
    with multi release cleats (and I bought a pair of cleats because I
    didn't know, so now I have 3 sets of cleats).

    I like them a lot, they're definitely easier to get out of than the
    Wellgo pedals that came with my mountain bike, any you can use them with
    plain shoes if you want.

    Steve.

    Richard said:

    "Steve Freides" <> wrote in message news:[email hidden]...

    Quoted message said:

    My wife found SPD's hard to get
    in and out of but loves Frogs.

    You may want to look at the'multi-release' cleats that are available for SPD
    pedals: they're extremely easy to clip out of. Only thing to watch out for
    is wear - they get harder to clip out of when they're worn. OTOH, I just
    replced my cleats after 4 years and about 10,000 miles, so they don't wear
    fast.

    They don't come standard with SPD pedals, but have to be purchased
    separately, so your wife probably had standard SPD cleats.

    With these cleats, a feirly inexpensive set of pedals and shoes, and you're
    in business.

  17. Rick Okanian wrote in part:

    << Cheap Time pedals may be sub-optimal, but cheap SPDs are great. >>

    My original point was that cheap Time pedals are great, well, good, and cheap
    SPD pedals are not, although they are much cheaper than cheap Time pedals.

    Robert

  18. (R15757) said:

    Rick Okanian wrote in part:

    Why do you put a 'k' in my name? groups.google.com brings up two
    other messages in which you've done that.

    Quoted message said:

    << Cheap Time pedals may be sub-optimal, but cheap SPDs are great. >>

    My original point was that cheap Time pedals are great, well, good, and cheap
    SPD pedals are not, although they are much cheaper than cheap Time pedals.

    I wasn't responding to your point. I was responding to

    who said:
    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    I'd never recommend cheap pedals!

    However, I suppose that message could be read as agreeing with you
    that cheap time pedals are fine. In that case, I'll say this:
    Cheap Time pedals may be good, but cheap SPDs are not bad; like I
    said, they've been great for me.

    However, to focus this in on the OP's question...the OP wrote:
    :Is there an comparison of the various types of pedal systems out there
    :suitable for the casual cyclotourist?
    :The type of riding is nothing more than casual day trips

    You responded (in part)

    Quoted message said:

    [time pedals] work flawlessly in mud and ice,
    generally trouble-free piece of equipment. Which can NOT be said of cheap SPD
    pedals.

    I suspect mud & ice may not be an issue. Also, given that cheap Time
    pedals are admittedly not cheap, maybe SPDs at the same price point
    are similar quality.
    --
    Rick Onanian

  19. Rick ONanian wrote:

    << Why do you put a 'k' in my name? >>

    That's a good question, and I don't know. Sorry about
    that. I got it in my head somehow that your name was
    Okanian, bit of dementia. It's possible that I
    subconsciously wish that your name was Okanian. It
    could be that three n's is one too many, I can't wrap
    my mind around it. Okanian is a fine name, you have to
    admit. I say throw a k in there somewhere: Okanian,
    Onakian, Onaniak.

    << I suspect mud & ice may not be an issue. Also, given that cheap Time
    pedals are admittedly not cheap, maybe SPDs at the same price point
    are similar quality. >>

    The more important reasons for recommending Time
    for a beginner are: they require zero adjustment, you
    just put them on and there is no tweaking whatsoever
    other than the usual positioning of the cleats, and no
    adjustments are necessary over the life of the pedal.
    Disengaging from these pedals requires a consistent,
    deliberate movement, there is no inadvertent
    disengagement unless the cleats are very worn. The
    way they clip in and disengage when they are new is
    pretty much exactly the same way they will do it when
    they are old. Unlike cheap SPD's, they are very rugged.
    They last for years and years of DAILY use. Not so for
    SPD's in my experience.

    There is one thing I like better about SPD's--they offer
    more lateral support than the Times (when they're not
    randomly unclipping). So if you like to push out a lot
    with your feet, as I do, your cleats will migrate slowly
    but surely outward on the rails of the Time pedal. I find
    myself having to pull my foot back where it belongs.
    Folks with a more correct pedaling motion don't have
    this problem, but it's really a minor problem anyway,
    although it sounds bad.

    Robert

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