Fairing - A DRAG - Aerodynamically Speaking?

Quoted message said:

Today I was back on my GRR Ti (With >Zzipper fairing) and I clearly felt the difference in the
almost identical on >coming headwind. (WHAT a DRAG. OK, >pun intended) The fairing seemed to be

Quoted message said:

buffeting against the wind and I clearly had to work much harder to keep the bike >up to a

decent speed.

Hi Ken. There's little doubt that it's a bit less efficient to plow air with a sheet of Lexan than
it is to slice thru it with your feet, too bad you have to lay down on a piece of pipe to do it. I
am surprised by the average speeds I come home with on my high racer, but still WAY prefer the
mighty Easy Racer for eveything but short (less than 25 mile) drag-race types of rides. Enjoy the
new bike but don't sell the GRR just yet!...Mark C.

Unfortunely, the Strada wasn't mine. My Aero is about to go back on order and NO, I have no plans to
ever part with my GRR Ti. Still it's refreshing to ride a bike, without the BIG BUBBLE in front and
still go decently fast. EZ Biker :-) Pompano Beach, Fl. (GRR Ti and SOON, Bacchetta Aero Pilot)

"Shwackman" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
"]news:[email hidden]...> Hi Ken. There's little doubt that it's a bit
less efficient to plow air with a

Quoted message said:

sheet of Lexan than it is to slice thru it with your feet, too bad you

have to

Quoted message said:

lay down on a piece of pipe to do it.

Good Morning EZ, I didn't think you were selling your TiR. If you were, it would sell fast and
you could have bought the AERO already. Keeping it is the way to go. Hope to ride with you in
the future.
--
Jude....///Bacchetta AERO St. Michaels and Tilghman Island.. Maryland Wheel Doctor Cycle and Sports,
Inc 1-800-586-6645 "EZ Biker :-)" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:dT9Ha.40904$YZ2.205068@rwcrnsc53...

Quoted message said:

Unfortunely, the Strada wasn't mine. My Aero is about to go back on order and NO, I have no plans
to ever part with my GRR Ti. Still it's refreshing to ride a bike, without the BIG BUBBLE in front
and still go decently

fast.

Quoted message said:

EZ Biker :-) Pompano Beach, Fl. (GRR Ti and SOON, Bacchetta Aero Pilot)

"Shwackman" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
"]news:[email hidden]...> Hi Ken. There's

little

Quoted message said:

doubt that it's a bit less efficient to plow air with a

Quoted message said:

sheet of Lexan than it is to slice thru it with your feet, too bad you

have to

Quoted message said:

lay down on a piece of pipe to do it.

Thanks Jude. I previously learned a BIG Lesson, when I dumped my GRR (Polished Alum) only to start
missing it a few months later. I know I'll be happy with the Aero, BUT I know I'll enjoy getting
back to my Lemo style of EASY riding too. EZ Biker :-) Pompano Beach, Fl. (GRR Ti and SOON,
Bacchetta Aero Pilot)

"Jude T. McGloin" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
"]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Good Morning EZ, I didn't think you were selling your TiR. If you were, it would sell fast and you
could have bought the AERO already. Keeping it is the

way

Quoted message said:

to go. Hope to ride with you in the future.
--
Jude....///Bacchetta AERO

In article <my5Ha.1006972$Zo.227901@sccrnsc03>, "EZ says...

Quoted message said:

Yesterday, (Saturday June 14) I got the IMMENSE pleasure to try a good friends (From West Palm
Beach) Strada. He had it tricked out via Aero components, including the M5 seat, HED Front 3 spoke,
rear solid Disc and he 's about my height, (Inseam etc.) so the bike was adjusted for me perfectly.
We hit the road at about 5:30 AM (Wanted to beat the early morning showers) and proceeded down A1A.
One of the immediate things I noticed was how the Strada EASILY knifed through the 15+ MPH
Headwind, with the greatest of ease. (I had witnessed a similar action, with Rich Pinto and John
Schlitter at the Bacchetta Rally, earlier this year, with me being WAY behind them) We did a short
hour ride and my overall average was about (An easy to maintain)
19.5 mph. My friend departed back to West Palm. (With his Strada. DARN!) Today I was back on my GRR
Ti (With Zzipper fairing) and I clearly felt the difference in the almost identical on coming
headwind. (WHAT a DRAG. OK, pun intended) The fairing seemed to be buffeting against the wind
and I clearly had to work much harder to keep the bike up to a decent speed. (Unlike on the
Strada, which cruised EASILY along, wind or no wind) Needless to say, some of my long time
beliefs about fairings, being THE AERODYNAMICALLY HOT SETUP, seem to be outdated. (Not that I'm
planning on trying my GRR Ti without the fairing; did that and the bike worked better with the
fairing) Still, this experience adds to my anticipation, to when I do get my Aero and that will
be, no need for any (Or will even be missed) fairing.

Interesting. I can well imagine that a very aero bike like the Strada w/o fairing might be more aero
than a GRR with fairing. And that for some bikes there might be little benefit to adding a fairing.

But I'm curious, has anyone ever found a fairing to make things worse?

Steve Christensne Midland, MI

"EZ Biker :-\)" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:<dT9Ha.40904$YZ2.205068@rwcrnsc53>...

Quoted message said:

Unfortunely, the Strada wasn't mine. My Aero is about to go back on order and NO, I have no plans
to ever part with my GRR Ti. Still it's refreshing to ride a bike, without the BIG BUBBLE in
front and still go decently fast. EZ Biker :-) Pompano Beach, Fl. (GRR Ti and SOON, Bacchetta
Aero Pilot)

"Shwackman" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
"]news:[email hidden]...> Hi Ken. There's little doubt that it's a bit
less efficient to plow air with a

Quoted message said:

sheet of Lexan than it is to slice thru it with your feet, too bad you

have to

Quoted message said:

lay down on a piece of pipe to do it.

I am not a big GRR fan. My wife is. She prefers the lower bottom bracket and the stability of the
LWB. I prefer the laid back SWB design of my Barcroft Virginia. I am a stronger rider and am faster
unfaired than she is faired. Then she puts the body sock on and it is a different story. This is not
to criticize the Bacchetta, the Volae or the Sabre, as they all have their supporters, only to say
that bodysocked the GRR I believe to be every bit as fast as the high racers (IMHO). And for many,
even this non-fan, I think they are much more comfortable to ride, which is why so many of us ride
recumbents in the first place.

Mike S. St. Louis, Mo.

Steve, I actually had that sensation, when I was riding with the Bacchetta guys, earlier this year.
They (As I have previously posted) were slicing through the 15+ MPH head wind, while me and my
faired GRR Ti was being buffeted and basically bogged down in the headwind. The fairing just seem to
add to the resistance factor and made it difficult to move forward with any decent speed. Meanwhile
the Bacchetta's were just cruising along, with only the guys heads being the immediate sticking up
resistance. EZ Biker :-) Pompano Beach, Fl. (GRR Ti and SOON, Bacchetta Aero Pilot)

"Steve Christensen" <[email hidden]> wrote in message "]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

In article <my5Ha.1006972$Zo.227901@sccrnsc03>, " But I'm curious, has anyone ever found a fairing
to make things worse?

Steve Christensne Midland, MI

Steve To answer the question "can a fairing make things worse" Yes although rare it can happen. A
fairing mounted with a large gap between it and the rider is one way to slow the bike down. Some
bikes don't handle well with a fairing so the rider ends up going slower because he/she is not
confident with the "feel" of the machine. Something to consider is; that whenever air moves over any
object there will be a "center of pressure" on that object. On a typical bicycle that "center of
pressure" is directly on the human so they can feel what the wind movement is doing and make the
necessary adjustments as they ride along. When fairings are installed the "center of pressure" can
move to a different location, possibly to an unfavorable position on the bike/rider and change the
handling. Several times in this news group riders have commented that they like their bike better
without a fairing on it. Most often the comments come from a short wheelbase style bike. When
designing a streamlined bicycle there are 3 things that should all be in the same spot: (1) center
of mass (2) center of balance ( amount of weight on each wheel )
(3) center of aero pressure If one of these 3 happens in the wrong spot, an evil handling bike can
result. That is not to say, that a person, so impressed with the speed will put up with a bad
handling machine. That is a personal call. To test one bike against anouther, a heart rate
moniter is a good tool. Trick is to compare average heart rate against average speed. Steve
"Speedy" Delaire

Steve Christensen said:

In article <my5Ha.1006972$Zo.227901@sccrnsc03>, "EZ says...

Quoted message said:

Yesterday, (Saturday June 14) I got the IMMENSE pleasure to try a good friends (From West Palm
Beach) Strada. He had it tricked out via Aero components, including the M5 seat, HED Front 3
spoke, rear solid Disc and he 's about my height, (Inseam etc.) so the bike was adjusted for me
perfectly. We hit the road at about 5:30 AM (Wanted to beat the early morning showers) and
proceeded down A1A. One of the immediate things I noticed was how the Strada EASILY knifed
through the 15+ MPH Headwind, with the greatest of ease. (I had witnessed a similar action, with
Rich Pinto and John Schlitter at the Bacchetta Rally, earlier this year, with me being WAY behind
them) We did a short hour ride and my overall average was about (An easy to maintain)
19.5 mph. My friend departed back to West Palm. (With his Strada. DARN!) Today I was back on my
GRR Ti (With Zzipper fairing) and I clearly felt the difference in the almost identical on
coming headwind. (WHAT a DRAG. OK, pun intended) The fairing seemed to be buffeting against
the wind and I clearly had to work much harder to keep the bike up to a decent speed. (Unlike
on the Strada, which cruised EASILY along, wind or no wind) Needless to say, some of my long
time beliefs about fairings, being THE AERODYNAMICALLY HOT SETUP, seem to be outdated. (Not
that I'm planning on trying my GRR Ti without the fairing; did that and the bike worked better
with the fairing) Still, this experience adds to my anticipation, to when I do get my Aero and
that will be, no need for any (Or will even be missed) fairing.

Interesting. I can well imagine that a very aero bike like the Strada w/o fairing might be more
aero than a GRR with fairing. And that for some bikes there might be little benefit to adding a
fairing.

But I'm curious, has anyone ever found a fairing to make things worse?

Steve Christensne Midland, MI

-----= Posted via Newsfeeds.Com, Uncensored Usenet News =----- newsfeeds.comnewsfeeds.comOpen ↗ - The #1
Newsgroup Service in the World! -----== Over 80,000 Newsgroups - 16 Different Servers! =-----

Mike I've had the same thoughts about a full body sock, might make a difference. If the air is
streamlined with a solid mass on either side, than the fairing is probably a good thing. However
here in Fl. the crosswinds tend to be strong and thus a body sock use (For me) is not favorable. (I
know this statement will wake up Thomas Sherman) Still, it would seem that a body sock would
enhance the front fairing use. Of course on the Bacchettas, your body is already reclined (Instead
of the more upright position on the GRR) to a point where the wind tends to flow smoothly over you
and less drag seems to be experienced. EZ Biker :-) Pompano Beach, Fl. (GRR Ti and SOON, Bacchetta
Aero Pilot)

"mike s" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
"]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

"EZ Biker :-\)" <[email hidden]> wrote in message

news:<dT9Ha.40904$YZ2.205068@rwcrnsc53>...Then she puts the body sock on and it is > a
different story.

"EZ Biker :-\)" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:<my5Ha.1006972$Zo.227901@sccrnsc03>...
<snip> Needless to say,

Quoted message said:

some of my long time beliefs about fairings, being THE AERODYNAMICALLY HOT SETUP, seem to be
outdated. (Not that I'm planning on trying my GRR Ti without the fairing; did that and the bike
worked better with the fairing) Still, this experience adds to my anticipation, to when I do get
my Aero and that will be, no need for any (Or will even be missed) fairing.

EZ Biker :-) Pompano Beach, Fl. (GRR Ti and SOON, Bacchetta Aero Pilot)

Apples and oranges. You should have compared the Ti-Rush to the Strada when both bikes *had*
fairings or with both bikes *lacking* fairing. That would have told you the difference that the
bike's design made.

IMO, the Easy Racer design is good, but the handlebar-mounted fairing makes a lot of difference. A
SWB design like the Strada won't benefit from a fairing as much as an Easy Racer... but there will
still be a benefit.

Recently, I've been doing time trials on my faired Easy Racer where I used to do them on my unfaired
P-38 Lightning. My times are just about equal, although it's tough to compare one year to another.
My times on my P-38 with a 3/4 fairing were about 10% faster.

Jeff

Mark, I have been riding a faired Stratus since 99. I agree with both you and EZ that I slice
through the wind with much less effort on my new Strada. And while I loved it, I am not sure that I
will ever be as comfortable on the Strada as I am on the Stratus. There remains something very
natural about the riding position on a Easy Racer/Stratus style lwb low bb bike. I am guessing that
feeling will not change.

Jim Reilly Reading, PA

[email hidden] (mike s) wrote in message
news:<[email hidden]>...

Quoted message said:

"EZ Biker :-\)" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:<dT9Ha.40904$YZ2.205068@rwcrnsc53>...

Quoted message said:

Unfortunely, the Strada wasn't mine. My Aero is about to go back on order and NO, I have no
plans to ever part with my GRR Ti. Still it's refreshing to ride a bike, without the BIG BUBBLE
in front and still go decently fast. EZ Biker :-) Pompano Beach, Fl. (GRR Ti and SOON, Bacchetta
Aero Pilot)

"Shwackman" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
"]news:[email hidden]...> Hi Ken. There's little doubt that it's a
bit less efficient to plow air with a

Quoted message said:

sheet of Lexan than it is to slice thru it with your feet, too bad you

have to

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

lay down on a piece of pipe to do it.

I am not a big GRR fan. My wife is. She prefers the lower bottom bracket and the stability of the
LWB. I prefer the laid back SWB design of my Barcroft Virginia. I am a stronger rider and am
faster unfaired than she is faired. Then she puts the body sock on and it is a different story.
This is not to criticize the Bacchetta, the Volae or the Sabre, as they all have their supporters,
only to say that bodysocked the GRR I believe to be every bit as fast as the high racers (IMHO).
And for many, even this non-fan, I think they are much more comfortable to ride, which is why so
many of us ride recumbents in the first place.

Mike S. St. Louis, Mo.

As is usual, I agree with Mike and would concur that both formats (socked GRR and the so called high
racers) are fast platforms under the right rider and that for the most part it really comes down to
rider preference as to which is the "better" design. However I think when you start to talk about
hilly riding, the Aeros/Corsas/Stradas/Volae's do have an advantage over the heavier long wheel base
bikes, at least until the Stilletto comes out.

Pat Mc

EZ Biker :-) said:

Mike I've had the same thoughts about a full body sock, might make a difference. If the air is
streamlined with a solid mass on either side, than the fairing is probably a good thing. However
here in Fl. the crosswinds tend to be strong and thus a body sock use (For me) is not favorable.
(I know this statement will wake up Thomas Sherman) Still, it would seem that a body sock would
enhance the front fairing use....

I have ridden a LWB bike with a bodysock in strong crosswinds without problems, but I see no point
in trying to convince EZ Biker of this.

I can also state from experience that there is a much better draft behind an Easy Racer with just
the front fairing than one with a bodysock. This would indicate that the bodysock improves
aerodynamic efficiency greatly.

The best way to deal with headwinds is a lowracer, since wind speed decreases closer to the ground
due to viscous drag. While riding my Sunset on windy days, I have passed a lot of upright riders who
are in better condition than I am.

Tom Sherman - Various HPV's Quad Cities USA (Illinois side)

Tom Tom Tom, good to hear from you. Was surprised my post didn't catch your eye earlier. YES, I'm
beginning to see your point on the full socked fairing. (Are you still sitting in your chair?) BUT,
I have an Aero that's coming soon, so I really won't need to worry about a body sock for the GRR Ti.
(I'm keeping the GRR Ti though) I'm incline to believe, if your body is aerodynamically set properly
on a bike frame, then the fairing isn't really a needed item; aka SWB bikes. NOW about those
Crosswinds and a HED (Full rear disc) and a HED 3 spoke front......... ;-) <Grin> EZ Biker :-)
Pompano Beach, Fl. (GRR Ti and SOON, Bacchetta Aero Pilot)

"Tom Sherman" <[email hidden]> wrote in message "]news:[email hidden]... > I
have ridden a LWB bike with a bodysock in strong crosswinds without

Quoted message said:

problems, but I see no point in trying to convince EZ Biker of this.

EZ Man, Where is your AERO. Corsa Al and I went for a 90 miler today. It was pretty windy. Are you
going to fit your AERO with HED Disk/HED3? I like mine for the flats, but the disk is a bit heavy
for hills. The Disk Lite is a bit lighter and $100 bucks more.

--
Jude....///Bacchetta AERO St. Michaels and Tilghman Island.. Maryland Wheel Doctor Cycle and Sports,
Inc 1-800-586-6645 "EZ Biker :-)" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:qmoJa.61685$vq.13321@sccrnsc04...

Quoted message said:

Tom Tom Tom, good to hear from you. Was surprised my post didn't catch

your

Quoted message said:

eye earlier. YES, I'm beginning to see your point on the full socked fairing. (Are you still
sitting in your chair?) BUT, I have an Aero that's coming soon, so I really won't need to worry
about a body sock for the GRR Ti. (I'm keeping the GRR Ti though) I'm incline to believe, if your
body is aerodynamically set properly on a bike frame, then the fairing isn't really a needed item;
aka SWB bikes. NOW about those Crosswinds and a HED (Full rear disc) and a HED 3 spoke
front......... ;-) <Grin> EZ Biker :-) Pompano Beach, Fl. (GRR Ti and SOON, Bacchetta Aero Pilot)

"Tom Sherman" <[email hidden]> wrote in message "]news:[email hidden]... > I
have ridden a LWB bike with a bodysock in strong crosswinds without

Quoted message said:

problems, but I see no point in trying to convince EZ Biker of this.

Mr. Jude, I'm hoping by mid July for my status to be "Upgraded " to Killer
N. I think for the short while, I'll use the wheels / rims that come with it and then add the HED
wheels, once I get more acclimated to the bike. We don't really have any Hills here in South
Florida, just some small pimples of bridges; so I'm thinking the HED stuff will be the best
setup. (I still remember the Bacchetta Guys SPANKING me, earlier this year) SO, there's a Disk
Lite eh? Yep, that could be the ticket. EZ Biker :-) Pompano Beach, Fl. (GRR Ti and SOON,
Bacchetta Aero Pilot)

"Jude T. McGloin" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
"]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

EZ Man, Where is your AERO. Corsa Al and I went for a 90 miler

today.

Quoted message said:

It was pretty windy. Are you going to fit your AERO with HED Disk/HED3? I like mine for the flats,
but the disk is a bit heavy for hills.

The

Quoted message said:

Disk Lite is a bit lighter and $100 bucks more.

Steve, How does any manufacturer pretend to accomplish keeping all three centers at the same
location if the bike has a sliding seat
(e.g. Tiger, Bacchetta, Barcroft)? I would think an adjustable boom
(e.h. Haluzak, Lightning) would have less influence by moving less mass, namely the crank and riders
feet, compared to moving the rider's entire mass.

"S. Delaire \"Rotatorrecumbent\"" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:<[email hidden]>...

Quoted message said:

Steve To answer the question "can a fairing make things worse" Yes although rare it can happen. A
fairing mounted with a large gap between it and the rider is one way to slow the bike down. Some
bikes don't handle well with a fairing so the rider ends up going slower because he/she is not
confident with the "feel" of the machine. Something to consider is; that whenever air moves over
any object there will be a "center of pressure" on that object. On a typical bicycle that "center
of pressure" is directly on the human so they can feel what the wind movement is doing and make
the necessary adjustments as they ride along. When fairings are installed the "center of pressure"
can move to a different location, possibly to an unfavorable position on the bike/rider and change
the handling. Several times in this news group riders have commented that they like their bike
better without a fairing on it. Most often the comments come from a short wheelbase style bike.
When designing a streamlined bicycle there are 3 things that should all be in the same spot: (1)
center of mass (2) center of balance ( amount of weight on each wheel )
(3) center of aero pressure If one of these 3 happens in the wrong spot, an evil handling bike can
result. That is not to say, that a person, so impressed with the speed will put up with a bad
handling machine. That is a personal call. To test one bike against anouther, a heart rate
moniter is a good tool. Trick is to compare average heart rate against average speed. Steve
"Speedy" Delaire

"EZ Biker :-\)" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:<8KlHa.288$Fa6.469@sccrnsc02>...

Quoted message said:

Steve, I actually had that sensation, when I was riding with the Bacchetta guys, earlier this
year. They (As I have previously posted) were slicing through the 15+ MPH head wind, while me and
my faired GRR Ti was being buffeted and basically bogged down in the headwind. The fairing just
seem to add to the resistance factor and made it difficult to move forward with any decent speed.
Meanwhile the Bacchetta's were just cruising along, with only the guys heads being the immediate
sticking up resistance. EZ Biker :-) Pompano Beach, Fl. (GRR Ti and SOON, Bacchetta Aero Pilot

EZBiker, I'm wondering about your riding position on the Ti Rush. Perhaps you have your seat to
reclined. I recall a past post of yours and I think you stated that you like it way back. Anyway,
to over come the crosswind effects on an unsocked Gold Rush you must lean forward and get your body
as close to the fairing as possible. When you close that gap you'll no longer be buffeted around as
much and i'm sure your speed will increase.

Thanks <[email hidden]> for the suggestion. I have actually tried what you suggested and it does
seem to help, EXCEPT when trying to stay in that position for a long period of time. Admittedly, I
am leaned back some and have experimented with decreasing my recline somewhat, only to start
experiencing recumbo Butt again. Still, I'm very Happy with My Grr Ti and won't be parting with it,
even when my Aero arrives. EZ Biker :-) Pompano Beach, Fl. (GRR Ti and SOON, Bacchetta Aero Pilot

<[email hidden]> wrote in message "]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

"EZ Biker :-\)" <[email hidden]> wrote in message

news:<8KlHa.288$Fa6.469@sccrnsc02>... > EZBiker, I'm wondering about your riding position on
the Ti Rush.